I Own Klr Sport Compact Performance. Man Came Into My Shop Last Week Wanting To Transform His 92' Cellica Gt Into A 400-500hp Monster. He Is Dead Serious And Wants To Get It Going. My Question Is:
Should I Stick With The Engine That Comes Stock Or Should I Look Into Swaping Engines To Begin With?

We Do Full Engine Builds, Custom Turbo Kits, Etc. Here. It Will Not Be A Big Problem Doing All That Is Nessecary To Obtain This Target Hp, I Am Just Looking For Some Pointers To Start Out With.

Question 2: What Engine Management Works Well On These Engines?

Thank You,

Mace Ward

I think you would have a much easier time getting the desired horsepower out of the 3SGTE rather than the 5SF, and it would be alot cheaper for your customer.

I dont know if your familiar with the Top Secret supra, but they put a 3SGTE in that to save weight and they built it into I believe 700hp.

SO instead of having to completely rebuild the internals of a 5S I think it would be easier to start with an engine that was meant to handle boost and higher amounts of power.

Not saying that you arent capable of building a 5SF into a beast, I just think you would have alot less headaches starting with a 3S.

just my opinion, good luck though and keep posted on how you obtain the power.

(If you really want to go all out try stuffing a 2JZ in there!)

Truspeed hit the mark. It will be much easier to obtain your 500 ponies goal if you swap the 3sgte into the 5sfe. You will probally need to slap on a nice turbo (T3 maybe) and revamp the fuel system along with the engine managment system. I hope this dude is planning on spending itleast $5000.

Thank You Guys For Your Reply.

He Is Prepared To Spend Whatever Is Ness... We Will Be Doing A "full Car Package" Suspension, Brakes, Cage, Seats, Wheels, Stitch Welding, Custom Turbo Kit, Fuel Cell, Etc.....

As Far As The Turbo Set Up, We Will Build That To Spec Vs The Entire Package. What Type Of Engine Management Works Well With The 3sgte? I Thought About Electromotive?

How Strong Are The Tranys? I Am Just Looking For Any Info That You Guys Might Be Able To Tell Me So I Don't Have To Find Out For My Self. Haha Been There Often And I Don't Like The Hassle....

Mace Ward
Klr Llc.
865-688-8552

Okay...the 3SGTE Tranny's are good up to about that much horsepower with the gearbox that they have. I mean as in about 500 ponies is the max that bad boy can handle. I would suggest going with a stronger gearbox/tranny itself. The 3SGTE Tranny CAN handle it but not for long especially if the driver rides the transmission hard.

What Transmission Is A Good One To Go With? Ie: Is There A Direct Bolt On Or Should I Look Into Upgrading The 3sgte Trans.

I would upgrade the 3SGTE tranny myself. Because I am not quite sure what will directly bolt onto the 3SGTE and be able to handle that amount of horsepower.

ok, here are my sugestions

3sgte swap(2nd gen 225bhp, 3rd gen 255bhp)
2.2l stroker kit
transmission from a celica SS3 with LSD(strong tranny, bolts right in) the only 3sgte tranny that will work is an mr2 turbo tranny, the rest are AWD and will not work well and add a lot of extra weight
t3/t4 hybrid turbo and equal length manifold with external wastegate
full 3 inch turbo back exhaust
big ass injectors
supra TT fuel pump
FMIC
water injection
some HKS cams
adjustable cam gears
ARP head studs(good idea to put arp stuff every where)
new seals through out the whole engine
port and polish
oversized valves
get the pistons from the stroker kit coated.

if you start with a 3rd gen 3sgte that already puts you at 255. basic bolt on mods gets you to well over 300hp.

500hp is nothing for a 3sgte engine(so long as you are willing to spend some money)

Is there a website that is specific to the 3sgte performance parts? Also, where could I find the processes needed to be taken for that motor to fit. Is it a direct bolt in or do I need to make custom mounts? Thanks again.

Heres the deal in the difference between the 5S-FE and the 3S-GTE. The crank and the head and thats the only difference. The block is the same size along with the motor mounts. Basically all you need to do to make a 5S-GTE is put the crank in from the 5SFE into the 3SGTE motor (I wouldnt suggest you do though). But other than that man everything is pretty much the same (cept for the intake and exhaust manifolds...but you know that)

Oh yea...can you make custom intake manifold and custom exhaust headers if I were to ask ya to and then ship them? And around how much would it cost?

Do You Have To Change The Cranks Out Due To A Crank Shaft Position Sensor Or Something Like That?
I Am Looking Into The Autotronics, Accell Dfi, Or Fast Stand Alone Set-ups.
Yes, I Can Do Intake And Exhaust Manifolds. Price Will Vary Depending On What Your Needs Are. Tell Me What You Are Looking For And I Will Let You Know.

Scratch The First Part Of The Last Reply, I Just Read It Again And I Understand What You Are Saying.. Haha

the 3sgte engine drops right in and will bolt up to the stock 5spd celica tranny, although it wont last long with the stock 3sgte power, let alone 500hp

the wiring will be a BITCH.

if you want, i know a guy that makes plug and play swap harnesses when you send him the stock harness and the 3sgte harness.

What About Using The 3sgte Trans Also?

CAN I JUST USE THE HARNESS FROM THE ORIGINAL ENGINE AND PUT IT ON THE 3SGTE? THEN JUST ADD CONNECTIONS AS NESSECARY? I WILL BE USING A FULL STAND ALONE SYSTEM ON THIS PROJECT SO ALL OF THE ABOVE WIRING ISSUES COULD BE SOLVED BY THAT.

Okay...the 3SGTE Tranny's are good up to about that much horsepower with the gearbox that they have. I mean as in about 500 ponies is the max that bad boy can handle. I would suggest going with a stronger gearbox/tranny itself. The 3SGTE Tranny CAN handle it but not for long especially if the driver rides the transmission hard.


The MR2 and GT-4 gearbox are more than capable of handling that kind of power.

To the Orig. poster:

You need to think about what trans you're going to use. There have been some that have been pleased with the V6 Camry, manual trans. After all, you're going to have to mate a FWD gearbox (or modify the MR2) to the 3S-GTE. Good luck putting 500hp to the ground with a FWD gearbox without some kind of LSD.

FWIW, your customer has no idea the amount of $ and tuning involved to achieve 500 hp. His a brief suggestion:

Swap a 3S-GTE. Pick a gearbox/trans. Autronic Engine management. An EXPERIENCED tuner!

Good luck, if you are serious about doing this contact me offlist. Best of luck. I've got over $17K into my "complete package". And if you don't start with the right "package", you're making things INCREASINGLY difficult. You can't make sh_t smell like roses.

CHris cheech@ccia.com
http://way.to/celica.gtfour

What About Using The 3sgte Trans Also?

CAN I JUST USE THE HARNESS FROM THE ORIGINAL ENGINE AND PUT IT ON THE 3SGTE? THEN JUST ADD CONNECTIONS AS NESSECARY? I WILL BE USING A FULL STAND ALONE SYSTEM ON THIS PROJECT SO ALL OF THE ABOVE WIRING ISSUES COULD BE SOLVED BY THAT.

Which 3S-GTE trans do you want to use? There are a few variants. There are other trans. that will work with the 3S-GTE.

You don't want to use the existing harness for anything. In fact, you're getting a harness with whatever stand alone you're going with.

Have you ever done this before? Do you understand the amount of tuning it takes to properly set up a stand alone system?

I suggest reading some of the "GT4_owners" links on my website. There a two tuners, Chris O. and Dennis H., that have nice writeups on their pages. Look here : http://way.to/celica.gtfour , click on links.

Good Luck

yea, i have done this alot. i own a shop here in knoxville, tn. we do custom turbo kits, full race engines, etc... we mainly do hondas and acuras, i am just doing research to make this job easier.

What tuning equip do you guys have there?

I may travel down. AWD dyno?? Just curious......

hey mase if u want i will buy that gt motor off of u if u will sell it just email me im in town i have a st and i am looking for a gt motor so i can build it and turbo it :evillol: just if i can handle the price

nopiracin, you asking me about my GT?

hey mase if u want to get that motor off your hands i will take it from u when u r through with it if u dont use it

gt-4 what kind of celica d u have??? oh yeah by the way myname is Joey in case you all like useig real names,

Hey illGT4, we use a wideband O2 sensor setup with a laptop to do any kindof of fine tuning and if the customer prefers tuning on a dyno there is a local dyno. It's not an AWD dyno though. I think there is one in Bristol if I'm not mistaken. Never had problems with tuning with a wideband though. Nopiracin: We will let you know about the motor. It will be the customers decision on what they want to do with the motor but I'll keep you informed.

thanks mase, i will be out there in a few weeks to order some things...

My name's not Mace but you are welcome.

sorry kevin, just saw the klr thing so i thought it was mase... :smokin: but take it easy you guys dont work to hard.. im just tryin to get a gt. motor to build up... oh just asking ne one here from hallenback???? i have not heard from him since he left vavoline..???

nopiracin,

I have a 89 Celica GT for sale.

I also have a ST185

http://way.to/celica.gtfour

Later. :)
Chris

first off i think this guy is a retard, it will cost lots of money to do this. i like celicas but they are not made to perform like that. Tell him to get a supra then he'll be happy.

not made to perform like what?

Ever seen a supra with a 3S-GTE in it?

it will cost money, that's for sure.

I agree with choosing the right platform to start. I personally, wouldn't want a FWD 500HP Celica. lol..it would be funny for the first couple hours though... anyway... it's all up to the person spending the money. There's no reason it can't be done. It happens quite often. These 3S-GTE are getting more popular everyday. For swaps, etc... it's a good, relatively unknown powerplant.

First since it is a fwd and the 3SGTE is from an all trac wouldn't you have to do something with the rear wheels? And also Mase ive been trying to find oyu online lol but do you also do ECU upgrades (for a 91 celica gt) and if you do what would the price of that be around. Preciate it.

omg first clarify to this guy what he's gunna be driving if you get it done, good luck with it by the way too. but a 500 hp celica, thats like alittle to far for such a small car to begin with and its front wheel drive, he's gunna drive it right off the chassis,lol. i mean im only 15 and i have the sense to know not to go passed what i know i can handle. (funny part though is i just started driving and i got such a lead foot that i wasn't letting off the clutch enough and killed my jetta at a stop light 4 times in a row, the van behind me was pissed like hell. i wish my mom didnt have to be with me,permit, or i wouldnt have worried to much about taking off fast and smokin that vans ass haha gay chevy piece a shit. but really this guy has to be like the president off some big corporation to afford all this but really just start with the basic things and see what your gettin out of them, then go big, this way the guy can get some idea of what he's spending and let him test drive it alittle to see what he thinks, sounds like he just wants something like a car he saw on the internet or somethin.

how much hp could you except to get from 2000 celica gt? just wondering

the gt runs about 160 to 170 and the gts run 180 stock, but performance parts/mods, if wish to spend the money, more than the car could handle

why not just buy a GT4 and tune thay look exactly the same apart from bonet scoop that you can get rid of bye junking the air to water intercooler and going for a front mount air to air
and for bits and bobs for the 3sgte look at fen sport
www.fensport.com