I was coming home from work on the freeway with my brother in his 92 accord coupe with i/h/e when this gray ford focus zx3 gets right on our ass in the fast lane. (I'm rolling with my brother because my car is in the shop for some body work cuz it was in a accident that wasn't my fault). Anyway my brother pulls into the 3rd lane (4 lane freeway) and lets him go by. The guy starts to pass but slows down to get level with my brothers car. The dumb ass kept stepping on the throttle for a half second to get our attention. I look over and just yell LETS GO!!! The guy steps on it but my brother quickly downshifts from 5th to 4th and punches it. Very quickly my brother was already next to his ford zx3 evenly matched up. I knew my brother was playing with him so he pushed the pedal down to the floor again once he saw that they were doing a 100mph, and just pulled away from the focus by about a car length every 4-5 seconds. Even after my bro was about 4 car lengths ahead he did not let off because he wanted to put the focus out of sight. Which he did. Why do people try and race in a zx3 or even an svt focus? It just boggles my mind.

what boggles my mind is why they buy the ugly ass things

I would never buy one, but the (overpriced) SVT Focus relatively doesn't look that bad.

I would never buy one, but the (overpriced) SVT Focus relatively doesn't look that bad.


true... but it's on a scale of 1-10 is not even close to a 'teg or 'lude.. or even a civic for that matter.. everyone has their own taste though. but the ford tags should be enough to steer most drivers away hehe

I was coming home from work on the freeway with my brother in his 92 accord coupe with i/h/e when this gray ford focus zx3 gets right on our ass in the fast lane. (I'm rolling with my brother because my car is in the shop for some body work cuz it was in a accident that wasn't my fault). Anyway my brother pulls into the 3rd lane (4 lane freeway) and lets him go by. The guy starts to pass but slows down to get level with my brothers car. The dumb ass kept stepping on the throttle for a half second to get our attention. I look over and just yell LETS GO!!! The guy steps on it but my brother quickly downshifts from 5th to 4th and punches it. Very quickly my brother was already next to his ford zx3 evenly matched up. I knew my brother was playing with him so he pushed the pedal down to the floor again once he saw that they were doing a 100mph, and just pulled away from the focus by about a car length every 4-5 seconds. Even after my bro was about 4 car lengths ahead he did not let off because he wanted to put the focus out of sight. Which he did. Why do people try and race in a zx3 or even an svt focus? It just boggles my mind.

That condescending tone you have is what turns good threads into flame-fests...and a good indication why nobody else in the automotive world respects Honda drivers.

FYI, a Ford SVT Focus will stomp all-over your brother's modified 1992 Accord, while wiping it's foot on the Accord's ass...stock. The SVT weighs about the same as the Accord, while having about 30 more HP and 30 more ft-lbs of TQ, stock-for-stock...with a six-speed. Don't even think you can come close where the roads become curvy...the SVT's handling has been compared (and rightly so) to the Integra Type R's.

I personally am not a Focus fan, but talking-down on a car like that, doesn't make you any different than some of the bigot domestic-drivers I have encountered.

A lot of narrow-minded people have also asked "why do they keep trying to race with their Hondas?"

Think about it.

The Ford Focus is an odd looking car, however, it was designed for the European car market... the cool market. There's a similar looking hatchback made by another car maker, I don't remember who it was.
For an under $15,000 car, it's hard to believe they've made a $30,000 version with a turbo-charger for World Rally fans for European sales only. It has unreal amounts of torque and HP.

I did test drive a ZX-3 awhile ago. I didn't like the acceleration (me and the sales person in it), steering wasn't too bad, shifter was okay, pretty quiet (not wind noise, engine noise). For a hatchback, it has a high shoulder-line which made me feel short in it compared to a VW Golf. Their top-of-the-line SVT has a pretty good engine but would be sweeter with the Jackson Racing supercharger. I still don't like the grill or headlight treatments.

Wow thats funny...... A focus with the handling capabilities of a honda. That really makes me laugh hysterically. Honda handling capabilities are superior to a focus, especially the Integra Type-R you brought up. And I'm not just saying that in the defense of honda, its been proven on the track. And listen here carrrnuuuutttts..... I've previously raced a svt focus in my civic with just some engine mods, and I all I did was laugh after the race was over because of how pathetic focus is and of how much he enjoyed my taillights. And I don't understand why nobody here can tell a story without some jerk off saying bs when they weren't there to see it for themselves because they were too busy jerking off their cats.

oops... I don't think I would have said that if I were you. are the engine mods your civic has an intake, exhaust, and header? they are aren't they? i bet it drives like a bad ass race car now... you know man, just the other day I was at a stoplight next to a new corvette being driven by an old man... I'll be damned if I didn't beat that old man off the line. does that mean I can outrun a corvette? nah, it just means the old man in the corvette took off slower than I did. let me run in here and post it as a kill!!

Wow thats funny...... A focus with the handling capabilities of a honda. That really makes me laugh hysterically. Honda handling capabilities are superior to a focus, especially the Integra Type-R you brought up. And I'm not just saying that in the defense of honda, its been proven on the track. And listen here carrrnuuuutttts..... I've previously raced a svt focus in my civic with just some engine mods, and I all I did was laugh after the race was over because of how pathetic focus is and of how much he enjoyed my taillights. And I don't understand why nobody here can tell a story without some jerk off saying bs when they weren't there to see it for themselves because they were too busy jerking off their cats.Son, I've been working with Hondas since before you had pubic-hair (do you have any now?). Please get out of my forums if you are going to be a stupid fanBOI. Please.

I highly doubt if your basic bolt-ons on an EX can overcome these differences: http://www.car-videos.com/performance/view.asp?ID1=23&ID2=90

Even then, the SVT focus is a lot faster than that comparo indicates, since magazine testers encountered the undefeatable traction-control...but aftermarket usually takes care of that easy.

Also, for your information, a stock Focus ZX3 is neck-and-neck, if not faster than your Civic EX: http://www.car-videos.com/performance/view.asp?ID1=100&ID2=90

So, quit being a fanBOI, and recognize that your car is good for what it is, but not something to get this kind of attitude about. If you can't do that, like I said, leave...and I'll cut-off the attitude NOW, and tell you that I'll be more than glad to HELP you out. We're here for quality, not quantity.

Man, common an accord 92 with I/H/E which hardly gives any power is no match against a SVT. Yes its a ford, yes whatever Honda usually is better, I own one, but these cars are in a different level. An SVT can outperform a 92 accord straight or in the track easily. A ZX3 is a different story.

haha that guy put IHE on a '92 honda accord LOL i bet it was a DX too

OWNED :loser:

i beat a ex civic saturday night in my 4 door automatic se focus
everyone wants me to race them i dont know why my shits a cruiser
i think it is because i took the badges off

Ever noticed how a new SI looks just like a focus? IT DOES! I would buy a focus. They are a good base to start building. I love the loyal honda owners but I'm not one of them. I have had 27 vehicles, including motorcycles. All cars have some redemable qualities. The focus is inexpensive and easy to mod, like a civic. I know a guy that has a turbo Focus and its retarded fast.

they make a 03 svt cobra motor and underbody swap for a focus only costs 70k

they make a 03 svt cobra motor and underbody swap for a focus only costs 70k

Or you can go for the 5.0RWD swap for 15,000 and a donor car.

why not just buy an svt cobra then

yea you could do that arcie same place
and ricochet cause a 500hp v8 supercharged 6 speed light focus hatchback would be faster then a cobra
but i would take a cobra cause it would cost less

True, but it's not exactly a (relatively) cheap B16A swap, $70k is a lot of money to be hacking up a car with.

you get the motor, suspension, tranny, axles, and other parts of the cobra on your focus hatchback

as you said it is not a everyday thing
but if i had cash i would get it done to my 4 door

I don't know about you all but 70k would = Viper or Z06 for me, not a focus with a v8.

yea you could do that arcie same place
and ricochet cause a 500hp v8 supercharged 6 speed light focus hatchback would be faster then a cobra
but i would take a cobra cause it would cost less
would it really be faster? at some point traction becomes an issue and i think that an svt focus with 500 hp is probably going to have a litlle tiny bit of a problem with it, i really would like to see a race between an equally modded focus/cobra against a normal cobra, i think the normal cobra might do better than you think, besides try taking a corner in a 500hp focus and then hitting the gas a bit and see what happens, do you think it may get a little fishy back there?

Just to solidify carnnut's claims - In every mag comparo I have read, the Focus SVT has walked all over the civic SI in every category except reliabillity. I too have seen the article where they say the SVT is as quick in the corners as a 3rd gen ITR.

Now, I've raced the new SI in my car and I was less than half a length behind him until 70mph, then I started pulling ahead. Even with a stock 240sx that shouldn't suprise anyone....but what surprised me was how I got wasted by a SVT focus - by 75mph he was 5 lengths ahead and growing farther.

for traction that is why they invented slicks

i raced a 03 si the other day from 45 and i kept up with him until about 70 and he jsut started pulling and kept on pulling
i knew i didnt have a chance i jsut wanted to see what happened
i drive 02 ford focus 4 door automatic

Ever noticed how a new SI looks just like a focus? IT DOES! I would buy a focus. They are a good base to start building. I love the loyal honda owners but I'm not one of them. I have had 27 vehicles, including motorcycles. All cars have some redemable qualities. The focus is inexpensive and easy to mod, like a civic. I know a guy that has a turbo Focus and its retarded fast.


HAHA I agree they do look similar, and even worse I think the new SI looks like a small mini van... and i AM a loyal honda owner...haha

yes the focus is ugly.

no i wouldn't choose it over a gsr.

BUT...u've got to respect it's proven power/handling at a reasonable price.

You can get the 4.6 swap kit for a Focus for $5,000+ whatever you pay for the motor, tranny and rear-end.

Can't say much for the Focus because of my distrust and disdain for Fords, but I have to give them props for making a car that is quite competent for price and performance on the twisties as well as the track.

I highly doubt if your basic bolt-ons on an EX can overcome these differences: http://www.car-videos.com/performance/view.asp?ID1=23&ID2=90

Basic bolt ons...... yeah try a basic motor swap bolt on in my civic that now I can run the 1/4 in 14.46. Now if I'm not mistaken, the page you tried to show me with the comparisons, it showed the svt focus pulling a 15.9 1/4...... well thats way behind me I believe so yeah in a sense my basic bolt on does infact smoke that lil piece they call an svt focus. And also my bros accord that everyone here doesn't think can do anything ran the 1/4 in a decent 15.62 which again beats an svt focus according to your stat sheet and that stock zx3 which for some reason you brought up. If Ford wants something to be proud, they can smile at their Roush Mustang cause damn, thats fast and beautiful. Now thats a car I will never catch up to.

I highly doubt if your basic bolt-ons on an EX can overcome these differences: http://www.car-videos.com/performance/view.asp?ID1=23&ID2=90

Basic bolt ons...... yeah try a basic motor swap bolt on in my civic that now I can run the 1/4 in 14.46. Now if I'm not mistaken, the page you tried to show me with the comparisons, it showed the svt focus pulling a 15.9 1/4...... well thats way behind me I believe so yeah in a sense my basic bolt on does infact smoke that lil piece they call an svt focus. And also my bros accord that everyone here doesn't think can do anything ran the 1/4 in a decent 15.62 which again beats an svt focus according to your stat sheet and that stock zx3 which for some reason you brought up. If Ford wants something to be proud, they can smile at their Roush Mustang cause damn, thats fast and beautiful. Now thats a car I will never catch up to.
And you're also comparing a modded car against a stock one. You also failed to read what I wrote about the fact that the SVT has an undefeatable traction-control system, which hampered its straight-line acceleration. Aftermarket has taken care of that, though...and with that alone, the SVT runs low 15's.

Now, if you want to compare modded to modded, how about the 5.0 or 4.6-liter V8 RWD Focuses? I highly doubt your modded Civic can match-up to that.

Speaking of your "modded" Civic:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=138896

You state in that thread that you have a turbo. Now you have a "basic motorswap bolt on"? Which one is it?

If I misunderstood you, and you actually said said that you only have bolt-ons on your EX...well...you still lied....and EVEN with these basic bolt-ons, a Focus SVT will still wax your EX.

I am not a Focus fan. As a matter of fact, I have been a huge Honda fan for a lot longer than you've had your license. I just hate the fact that fanBOIs (aka, morons) like you makes it hard for respectable Honda drivers to get any respect from other car tuners.

So please, unless you have something constructive to say, just shut the hell up and simply read in here from more knowledgeable people than you...which is a WHOLE lot.

Ouuucchhh!!!! You have just been :owned: by Carrrnuttt

Well mister carrrnuttt..... you are right. I did have a turbo civic. I was in an accident dating back to april and my lawsuit had settled and I collected some nice change. The money from that accident that I received paid for my new motor which I swapped out the the other one which was a d16z6 turbo motor. I swapped out that motor in order to get a stronger platform and go all motor. So yes I did have a turbo, and now I have a new motor. Thanks to a dumb driver and their insurance company that paid me respectable amount of money, and of course to my lawyer who helped get me that money. And how does a svt focus wax my civic? I've raced one I told you and I did the waxing. Even in the pages you sent me it only showed an svt runnning 15's.... I'm in the mid-low 14's. And I also believe that my suspension system can handle with that svt's. And why do you bring up the fact of V8's against 4 cylinders. Another stupid thing that people say. "Oh wow your civic 1.6liter runs 14's....well my v8 ss runs 13's stock." A stupid comparison that is always brought up by people. I guess people don't understand why in drag racing they don't let 4 cylinders and V8's in the same class. Probably cuz of a difference of 1000hp. Take ford focus to an endurance race event against a honda (equal power) and the ford will not keep up in that race. All shows and even track pros mention the fact that honda has some of the best suspension and handling capabilities. I think they call it the double wishbone suspension that honda has. And I've heard most track racers say that the honda's can keep up with a lot of corners, not due to power, but superb handling abilities. And I'm yet to find anyone in here who is more knowledgable than me when it comes to honda tuning. And just to let you know that I work with ASE certiefied master technicians at my work and I've brought up the juncture of honda vs ford..... and they all agree that ford can't hang.

Take ford focus to an endurance race event against a honda (equal power) and the ford will not keep up in that race.

Last time I checked, the most grueling type of racing in the world, the WRC (World rally Challenge), has never had a Honda in it. Ford has been involved in that type of racing since the 80's with the old Cosworth Escorts, and after that? Yeah...they run it currently with the Focus.

Just so you don't think I am biased, read up on how I deal with a Ford owning Honda-hater in this thread: http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13657&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

Here's another one from AF: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=115503&page=3

I don't defend any particular car. I defend ALL cars...from narrow-minded pin-heads like you.

Son, I've been working with Hondas since before you had pubic-hair (do you have any now?). Please get out of my forums if you are going to be a stupid fanBOI. Please.

I highly doubt if your basic bolt-ons on an EX can overcome these differences: http://www.car-videos.com/performance/view.asp?ID1=23&ID2=90

Even then, the SVT focus is a lot faster than that comparo indicates, since magazine testers encountered the undefeatable traction-control...but aftermarket usually takes care of that easy.

Also, for your information, a stock Focus ZX3 is neck-and-neck, if not faster than your Civic EX: http://www.car-videos.com/performance/view.asp?ID1=100&ID2=90

So, quit being a fanBOI, and recognize that your car is good for what it is, but not something to get this kind of attitude about. If you can't do that, like I said, leave...and I'll cut-off the attitude NOW, and tell you that I'll be more than glad to HELP you out. We're here for quality, not quantity.

Amen......

I'm glad carnutttt brought up the WRC, because I was about too if he hadn't. The restrictions on rally cars are EXTREMELY tight, yet the Focus used on the circuit still can hang with the best.

Oh, and I am a Honda driver..but I'm not going to BS about how good I think my car is, "just because".

hmm,
A. i'm a little buzzed right now, but i believe that the wrc focus is alot different than the focus we can actually buy? like its specifically designed for wrc?
B. If honda wanted to i'm sure they could put a car in the wrc.
C. So what ford has one car that can hold its own domestic ass against any (and i said any not just honda) import. as far as i'm concerned i'm not impressed.
D. i am not an avid honda fan, my integra is my first import and I love it, it will blow away any other car i have ever driven, and i don't mean speed, even though she is kinda quick. but by having a really good equailibrium of handleing,acceleration, gas milaege, reliability, price, and general performance, i don't think you will beat it with anything less than a bmw minus the price thing.



please excuse spelling and such as like i said earlier i am a little buzzed/drunk....

hmm,
A. i'm a little buzzed right now, but i believe that the wrc focus is alot different than the focus we can actually buy? like its specifically designed for wrc?
B. If honda wanted to i'm sure they could put a car in the wrc.
C. So what ford has one car that can hold its own domestic ass against any (and i said any not just honda) import. as far as i'm concerned i'm not impressed.
D. i am not an avid honda fan, my integra is my first import and I love it, it will blow away any other car i have ever driven, and i don't mean speed, even though she is kinda quick. but by having a really good equailibrium of handleing,acceleration, gas milaege, reliability, price, and general performance, i don't think you will beat it with anything less than a bmw minus the price thing.



please excuse spelling and such as like i said earlier i am a little buzzed/drunk....

You must be buzzed if you think nothing will beat a Integra overall except a BMW :smokin:

You must be buzzed if you think nothing will beat a Integra overall except a BMW :smokin:

well I don't mean in a race, and I don't mean just an integra, but most honda/acura vehicles i feel are a great deal. like I said for what you pay you get a somewhat quick car(not by racing standards but by everyday standards), very reliable, good on gas, and it handles well, as well as being pretty safe.


and don't get me wrong, I like other car manufacturers, such as toyota, VW, nissan, and BMW. I've had my share of domestics and they weren't impressive, not one of them went a year without needing some form of major repair like ~engine, transmissin, new heads, etc.

If I were to but a domestic it would be a ford though but only cuz i am more familiar with them than chevy and I wil never buy another Dodge

I think this guy just needs to learn that honda's airn't the greatest cars in the world. Stock for stock an SVT Focus will out perform any civic, and its been proven over and over. Modded, as always, would depend on what you put into it. I ran with an SVT at the track who only had an intake/exhaust and some good tires and he ran a 15.2, so imagine it wouldnt be too tough to break into the 14's especially since he was a very good driver.

Go ahead and call me biased, but for the record i dislike fords as much as you do, and i also work for American Honda, so just like carrrnuttt i'm only trying to defend a decent car against your ignorant slandering.

Oh and by the way, wtf does you working with ASE cert. techs have to do with anything? I work with them too and i wouldnt claim to know half as much as say carrrnuttt seems to know. You do realize you can be ASE cert. in anything from body repair to air conditioning. it doesnt make you some kind of car god or anything, unless you managed to get certified for all 30 or so programs they offer. But you work with those guys so i'm sure you already knew that...

Stock for stock an SVT Focus will out perform any civic
SVT Focus
170 HP @ 7,000 rpm

Civic Type R - STOCK
185 HP @ 8,000 rpm

Civic handles better, and is in the powerband longer.

In all honesty how can you really consider an SVT Focus stock? It WAS stock before SVT got their hands on it, but now? I really don't think so. Not bashing the car, I just personally don't consider an SVT Focus, or any other SVT product for that matter, a stock car. I don't consider a Mazdaspeed Protege a stock car either for the same exact reason. Come to think of it, I am not totally sure what I do call cars like these? :screwy: Either way, its kind of cool though to be able to take something like that and have a somewhat factory-like performance car.

In all honesty how can you really consider an SVT Focus stock? It WAS stock before SVT got their hands on it, but now? I really don't think so. Not bashing the car, I just personally don't consider an SVT Focus, or any other SVT product for that matter, a stock car. I don't consider a Mazdaspeed Protege a stock car either for the same exact reason. Come to think of it, I am not totally sure what I do call cars like these? :screwy: Either way, its kind of cool though to be able to take something like that and have a somewhat factory-like performance car.
That's a good point.. Is a Steeda/Roush/SVT Mustang considered stock? They all come with factory warrantees and such, but still..

SVT Focus
170 HP @ 7,000 rpm

Civic Type R - STOCK
185 HP @ 8,000 rpm

Civic handles better, and is in the powerband longer.

I meant available in America, but if you want to get into it, the european spec Focus RS has 215HP out of a turbo 2.0 (i think its 2.0 may be 2.3) and has even better handling than an SVT, but just like your CTR it ain't available stateside. Too bad, i'd like to take both for a test drive.

That's a good point.. Is a Steeda/Roush/SVT Mustang considered stock? They all come with factory warrantees and such, but still..

If you can buy it at the dealership and get a factory warranty, it's stock. This has been going on since the 1960's with Baracudas and Mustangs. It's termed as the 'Halo Effect'. The company tricks out a few models in order to draw in potential consumers and create excitement among them.
GTO, GT, GTS, GTX, GT-S, R, M3, M5, Type-R, Type-S, SVT, call it whatever you want. It's designed to generate excitement and rivalries amongst ourselves.

MRock, you've got a cool signature. You're keeping it real.

That's a good point.. Is a Steeda/Roush/SVT Mustang considered stock? They all come with factory warrantees and such, but still..

I'd consider SVT a factory car, becuase its from Ford's in-house tuners, just like Benz's AMG or BMW's M division, not so sure about Roush and the others tho. I know they must have some kind of deal with Ford, as you can order Roush Mustangs through Ford dealerships, but i still don't think they would be considered factory. I guess it comes down as to what is actually produced in a Ford factory itself, and i believe the SVT cars are.

I meant available in America, but if you want to get into it, the european spec Focus RS has 215HP out of a turbo 2.0 (i think its 2.0 may be 2.3) and has even better handling than an SVT, but just like your CTR it ain't available stateside. Too bad, i'd like to take both for a test drive.
I was just going off your "SVT Focus is faster than any Civic" comment, no biggie.

I was just going off your "SVT Focus is faster than any Civic" comment, no biggie.

Yah i know, sorry bout that. I was just trying to convey to the original thread starter that SVT's airn't as bad as he thinks they are, and are great competition for an Si. I know alot of people bad mouth the American 3 for trying to jump on the sport compact trend, but i say go for. The more companies giving into the trend, the more competition there is to out-perform and out-sell the other guy (that means we get more car for less money)

And i dont hate Honda at all, i'd give my left one for a CTR just for the shock factor of having a real one in North America :naughty:

I actually learned something when looking up the specs for that car. 170hp and 145tq really isn't that bad at all especially for a hatch.

Having a jdm ctr would be cool for a little while, but like most anything the moment passes.. My car's kinda quick, but the initial thrill wore off after a few weeks. Now I don't have any challenges cept V8's who hardly race me. I look at it now as a nice reliable car with some guts. Having a rhd with pre-jdm everything would be a nice little showpiece though, but I don't really like showcars that are right off the line telling people "look how much money I have". I like creativity, making hills into mountains.

Now I don't have any challenges cept V8's who hardly race me.

don't count out all imports yet.

there are TONS on the road (atleast around here), that can run better than mid-high 14's (where ur car probably is).

jus be patient an u'll get some good races w/ other import drivers... :biggrin:

My car's kinda quick, but the initial thrill wore off after a few weeks.

I know exactly how you feel. The only real chalenge i've had is with my bud's GTI VR6. After all he's done (intake, exhaust, chip) we're only running about dead even. Thats not to say i wouldnt get murdered by an SS or GT, i mean to say a challenge from sport compact cars.

But your right, the initial quick car thrill wears off pretty fast. I've been looking into dumping my car and getting an S13 240. I'm like obsessed with doing an SR swap in one, i've been researching it for over a year, hopefully something like that would keep me happy for a while.

That hasn't worn off for me yet, I still get excited every time I get into my car and start it up :sunglasse

That hasn't worn off for me yet, I still get excited every time I get into my car and start it up :sunglasse
I would too if I had a huge torque monster like yours, but relatively I get a tiny grunt up to 6k where it makes a ton of noise and goes a little faster. Maybe I'm just pissed I spent $4450 on an engine which only beats v8 stangs by a few hairs...

but with 4 less cylinders and 3 less liters I would be grinning ear to ear every time!!! :biggrin:

lol true.. I guess it's more of a showpiece than anything, but I don't like showing off my car to other people, I'd rather be fast.

If torque monsters are what you're looking for, they can be had for very cheap. For less than the price of your engine, I've got a buddy who just bought a 94 Formula ($4000), and it's in great condition. Good buys are out there, just gotta keep your eyes peeled...

I do understand the appeal of your car though, it's nothing to not be proud of. Drive it with pride, don't let it get old...

I'm going to drive her until she's flatlined, and my next car will definitly be some kind of V8. Making hills into mountains is cool and all, but I've been there done that and want something fast off the showroom floors. Making mountains into volcanos is even better :) That way there won't really be too many arguments about SVT Focus's beating Si's becaust of 8 more hp etc.. It's splitting hairs. I'll be able to say I've got 200 more hp than you and 250 more ft lbs of torque :) I'd still respect the respectable Hondas and their drivers, as that's where my starting line was, but look at it as just that, a starting line, then know I have something better.

Hey, 4 cyl imports can go fast for cheap too. I'm sure you guys have seen Sport Compact Car Magazine's project Silvia. For about the same price you probably paid to modd your civic Ricochet, they had the old 240 into the high 12's. then again i'm very biased to the silvias. I've seen tons of old wedge Eclipse gst's and gsx's also break 12's too for very little money. There pretty good if your into the DSMs thing.

I'm never buying another dsm after my 94 Talon experience. It was fun to drive but I think I had it in the shop more than on the road, and I didn't drive like a maniac in it either.

Sounds like you're where I was several year's ago, though your stepping stone car was alot better than mine was. I had a 90 Integra GS, I think it was. It was fun and all, but my heart always wanted bigger and better. If history is the case, and your next stone is bigger than mine too, I can't wait to see what car you get next :naughty: