What county do you think has the automakers that make the best cars?
Feel free to comment.

:licker:

All you guy viewing but not voting:confused:

Any suggestions?

I voted Germany...their cars have what every other countries cars have and gobs more. The possible exception being Italian cars.....but I think I would still go for German Engineering.

You forgot Australia as well!!!!!! ....not that I'd vote for it. Haha.

I'm sorry i luv honda's/acura's and Lexus but the germans are just too damn good Mercedes/Bmw :( I know i own a jap trap but the german cars are really in a class of there own .

I thought about Germany but after getting first hand behind the wheel of a GTR I thought otherwise

Here is a little somthun for yous guys.

file:///C:/My%20Documents/Kevin/reliable

Lexus has been named tops in reliability, durability, and longlivety by JD Power and Associates in a study I found. I went to the JD Power site and found that Lexus has won numerous awards over the past decade or so. Like being the top Nameplate in the industry for overall quality every year they've been eligible {1995-2001}. In a link below it it stated that the 2001 LS430 is the highest rated vehicle.

Honda and Acura may not be at the top of the chart with Lex, but they recieved {I'd bet} the second most awards. Also notice how some partner companies are spread in the chart, like how Infiniti is at the top and Nissan is at the bottom. Kinda makes you wonder. BTW, you also need to consider the saftey aspect. I believe that most Honda and Toyota models dominate their respective classes for crash test ratings. For more go to the JD Power site.

01 LS430 (http://autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=&cat_code=carnews&content_code=08842118&Search_Type=STD&Search_ID=263224&record=6)

JD Power site (jdpa.com)

For crash test ratings. (http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ratings.htm)

All my fav cars come out of these countries.

America
Japan
Britain
Germany
Italy

To me it is hard to pick.

It came down to Germany and Italy for me, but Italian supercars beat out those killer engineering skills of the Germans. Ferraris have been my favorite cars for a long time, since i was a wee boy and didnt know a damn thing about cars. But i knew that ferraris were sweet, and they went fast.

They all have good automakers. Each country has an excellent manufactuer. :) Japan quite possibly makes the best, *in general*, cars to today. They are engineered nearly aswell as German cars. But German cars tend to be overengineered nowadays. Mostly because the idiots at Chrysler joined Daimler. Know DCX is draining all that money and putting it in Mercades. They are too good to be true. That 'forces' a lot of other German manufactures to give more for the money like MB is doing. Sad but true. AMC, the cool Jeeps, and the real Hemis are probably gone forever... Japanese cars on teh other hand offer a lot for the driver. Honda (yes, don't laugh you fools) offers not only some of the best motorcycles in the world, they make some of the best ULEVs around. And they also offer semi-great and great driver cars aswell. S2000. NSX. Even the American Acura line up has some pretty good deals.

Europe is usually on top of everything and they make, by far, the best cars, but in general, Japanese cars tend to offer nearly as much with out the higher price tag, which is usually, on Euro cars, their because of gimmics and fancy 'junk' that's not even worth is most of the time.

American cars used to be on top... But sadly in the 80's and early 90's things kinda went downward... for the car fan atleast... GM and Ford are selling a bunch of trucks and suvs which are great vehicles but where in the heck is the tradional rear-wheel drive 2-door sports cars? But, good news.... :D American companys have finally gotten off their rear and changing things....
Oh and AMERICAN companys sell awesome cars round the globe and not here.... that's gotta stop... I'm sure some American's would like an Escort Cosworth... a Falcon XR6/8, or an HSV Clubsport R8... !!!! :p


To answer the question... I say America has the best Automakers. They just aren't usuing their full potential... like idiots.

And Europeans always make great cars...

But (!!) if you what a great car, with above average everything, and an average price get a Japanese car. The Acura RSX-S, Subaru WRX, Lexus IS300, and Honda S2000, are all great drivers cars that give you thrils and fun with out a $70k German price tag.

... I'd rather have a pony car though... :D lol ;)

Well, USA Racer, don;t get your hopes down. Chrysler is not owned by Daimler, nor is Daimler owned by Chrysler. They simply merged to increase eachothers sales in the U.S. and Germany. Chrysler is still Chrysler.

Originally posted by Polygon
Well, USA Racer, don;t get your hopes down. Chrysler is not owned by Daimler, nor is Daimler owned by Chrysler. They simply merged to increase eachothers sales in the U.S. and Germany. Chrysler is still Chrysler.

Yes but the so called merger is pulling Chrysler down almost killing it. ALL the money usually goes to Mercades Benz. Sad but true. :(

France of course, I love thier high-tech wonder-mobiles

engineering/technology award definately goes to germany. economical, reliable and sensible transportation goes to japan.

Originally posted by del
engineering/technology award definately goes to germany. economical, reliable and sensible transportation goes to japan.

I dissagree with technology going to germany. Engineering/Performance to Germany, technology etc. goes to Japan. 2 good examples Lexus LS430 and Infiniti Q45. On the other hand the MB CL600, its tight but I think I would give it to Japan.

Don't forget Yugoslavia... The Yugo man.... That car ROCKS!!!http://members.tripod.com/yugopwr/id43.htm

Originally posted by Andre the Giant
Don't forget Yugoslavia... The Yugo man.... That car ROCKS!!!http://members.tripod.com/yugopwr/id43.htm

Are you kidding?

Originally posted by Andre the Giant
Don't forget Yugoslavia... The Yugo man.... That car ROCKS!!!http://members.tripod.com/yugopwr/id43.htm

Are you kidding?
Well maybe if he forgot Yugoslavia he forgot Rusia too, they make Ladas!!! :bloated:

I don´t know, that´s a tough one. I like japanesse best cause:
1) Engineering
2) More accesible than german cars
3) Reliability certainly
4) Don´t remeber what else

I like americans too; like Ford. Italian styling. Korean features for the buck. Sweedish safety (Volvo)

So....
I like ´em all!

My comment about the Yugo was just a joke. I might be crazy but I'm not THAT crazy!:)

Italy

Italy, hands down.
No one builds a car with more passion then the Italians.....
THIS is what the Japenese lack, thats why i hate the LS, and SC's and even the germans (second place winners) lack this......they're amazing engineers but they're cars a generally "cold" i mean look at the new 7 series interior....
When the italians build a car, its more a piece of art, and to me it shows.
Examples the 550 and 360....

1. Germany ( nice packaging )
2. Italy ( design goes over functionality )
3. Japan ( knocking on the door...... )

italy..... with the rip and snort of Ferrari

German cars are best engineered:
Porsche, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, VW. Nuff said.
Italians have most driver appeal IMO. Ferrari, Alfa, Lancia...
Japanese cars, no matter how capable, have no character whatsoever. Thats what comes of stealing designs and imitating the Europeans

cheers
jay

I used to live in germany..although price is to pay. german cars conquer everything on the road, from engineering, luxury, quality, power, styling, fuckin awesome..

You said it. although they are criticised for one thing, along with the Japs. however capable their cars are they dont have enough character which to some extent is true. the 911 is losing some its 911-ness and 3-series BMW's are getting less fun. still, theyre the best cars in the world IMO.

cheers,
jay

ITALY all the way man!!

and not just coz I'm italian...:hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

Sure, Ferraris, Maseratis, Lamborghinis, Lancias or Alfas aren't the fastest, nor the best handling cars available 2day, nor necessarily the best built either, but, IMHO,
WHO CARES?? LOL

I think it's a question of tradition that's behind those badges: Italian manufacturers have always been on the fore of motoring competition throughout the century; think of the Lancia Deltas that ruled the world of rallies for 5 seasons ina row not that long ago, of the F1 Alfas with their tiny 1.6L turbocharged engines pushingout something like 800hp, not to mention the F2002 and the previous F1 cars that are showing the world what Italian technology is capable of....hahahaha11 :lol2:

Talking about Italy you guys think about their supercars. But the question was not only about that cathegory. Remember that Italians also manufacture the lame Fiats, ugly Lancias and nice looking but really fucked up manufactured Alfas.
My pick goes to Germany for the best cars ever but sometims with lack of reliability (BMW's) and Japan for the best reliability but lack in personality.

Mr_Root>

congratulations, what an amusing post.

FIAT's are lame, you say. Why exactly? You can't just say it without a reason.

Lancias are ugly. Ok, but that's just your opinion, and it doesnt make them bad cars does it..

Alfa's are fucked up... gee, what moronic reason will you give for that lovely statement?

Come on, you really seem to have it in for Italian cars, so for my amusement please come up for some reasons why Ferrari's, Maserati's, Bugatti's and Lambo's are crap. Much appreciated

I cant believe we agree on Germany but then you say BMW are unreliable. Hilarious

Well well well, what a great reply! You happend to be am italian fanatic. I assume you eat noting but a pizza or pasta, drive an italian car and have the Benito Mussolini picture beside your bed :))))

But seriously I'll explain why I wrote my statement.

A very good friend of mine is a Fiat and Alpha dealer so I have a pretty good chance to test drive some of the cars. I tested Fiat Brava, Bravo, Palio Weekend, Seicento. Really, they are cheap not only in price but in design. You just feel the bad build quality in everything you touch. They break quite often. Sometimes after 1000 km you just HAVE to back to the service for some repairs! Can you imagine? NEW CARS!
Alpha's are great from the outside but the inside... really you have a strange mishmash of real great design with cheap fiat like details. Cool speed and rev meters in the front and really lame placed and made el. window switches in the middle. And the gear stick... allways too far to reach. I'm a toll guy 193 cm and a friend of mine is 176 cm and we both have to really hard put our hands forward to reach the gear shift. This is the thing all Alphas I checked out. On a british automotive program "Top Gear" they said it's a "tipicall italian driving position" :)

Lancias. Hmmmm... Never seen one from the inside and never driven one of them. But all I can see is an ugly car. I can't help it. For me Lancias are UGLY!

Talking about BMW's unreliability... I have 1996 Z3 1.9 Roadster. Before I have had 95 728i. Let's see... both those cars had the same problems with cooling system, power steering pump broke also in both, the rear suspention in the 7'th is very weak and some parts must be replaced regulary, lapms in the dashboard brake in both cars... the list can go on. Am I alone in the complaints about BMW? No! They are great but delicate cars! I used to drive Hondas (2 Accords, CRX, CRX Del Sol, 2 Preludes) and they NEVER broke that much!

So... what I wrote is not something I made up. This is my point of view I came up after test driving, looking at, driwing reagulary or talking to my friends who have such cars. Better try to watch what you're saing or rather writing about.

Good luck and watch it. Eating to much pizza can be dangerous to your health hehe :))))

Regards

Well, i do love pizza, and pasta, but i dont drive an italian car nor do i have a picture of Mussolini beside my bed!

If theres one thing i try to do its watch what im saying. If i came across a little strong, here's why:

Driven several Alfa's (not alpha's), all fun to drive, excellent engines, sumptuous interiors (the new ones), and no trace of bad build. Strange driving position I will hand to you, but that wasnt enough to make me think the cars i drove were bad

To be honest, I havent driven either the Bravo or Brava, but i can tell you the Fiat Coupe is excellent to drive and doesnt seem to be as unreliable as you say, at least in my friend's experience.

You have passed judgement on Lancias without having driven one or sat in one. I refer you to the Lancia Delta Integrale EVO, one of the finest road cars of all time and the most successful WRC car of all time. You might find it ugly, but drive it once and you'll want one.


Back to BMW, two of our last 4 cars in the family have been Bee Em's and in the 4 years we owned the first it was flawless, the second one gave us one (very) minor and cheap-to-fix problem in 7 years experience.. I call that reliable

So just as you said, what I wrote is not something I made up. This is my point of view after test driving, looking at, driving regulary or talking to my friends who have such cars. Better try to watch what you're saing or rather writing about. ;)

OK... so we have different pionts of view on the cars we are talking about based on two different experiences... cool... now shake hands and go for a beer :D

ima going wit germany!:bandit: :smoka: :smoker2: :ylsuper

GErmany, Italy, and Britain r the best car makers but i choose italy because i love ferrairs maseratis and lambo's

Don't forget Yugoslavia... The Yugo man.... That car ROCKS!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Are you kidding?

ehh no offense, daewoos are the kinda the yugos of today..

My vote goes to Germany. They have everything, super cars, economy cars, beautiful cars that were all show no go (Volkswagen Karmann Ghia) beautiful cars that will scare the shit out of you (Porsche Turbos) kampers, the old beetle, cars that ranged from 800 dollars to 1,000,000 dollars. They have everything for ever different person.

What about Poland? Polonez! lol just jokin..

I have to disagree and say there's nothing particularly wrong with Daewoos. Ok they're not the most thrilling cars in the world but they're perfectly capable and offer great VFM. I'm not a great fan of them, but there's no denying they have achieved a well-earnt respectable standing in the car industry. All car companies have to start somewhere.

I have to disagree and say there's nothing particularly wrong with Daewoos. Ok they're not the most thrilling cars in the world but they're perfectly capable and offer great VFM. I'm not a great fan of them, but there's no denying they have achieved a well-earnt respectable standing in the car industry. All car companies have to start somewhere.

Well value for money? I don't know I think in this case you get what you pay for. I'm not going to say anything more because I don't want to insult this mans car. I just started laughing when I saw the Yugo comment. Some people might think the Yugo was a brilliant car. Great on gas, and disposable, which is what it's purpose was in the first place. What do us americans do now? Buy a car for a year, then get rid of it... leasing, but the Yugo was before leasing was around. I was impressed with the ratings on epinions for the Yugo. The Yugo's styling wasn't all that bad either, some looked like the Volkswagen Rabbit. I'm no Yugo fan, I'm just defending it if no one else will.

I don't want to insult this mans car
You misunderstood where im coming from: I dont own a Daewoo; I personally wouldnt buy one, but i understand why some people do, and i dont put them down for it. Cars have improved so much over the last decade that a car that is considered bad today will still easily fulfill all the requirements a car should. Even cheap cars like Daewoos are reliable, some extremely so, have reasonable performance and are specced handsomely. They must not be the boldest designs nor the most handsome but there are many positive things to be said about most of these cars. The only bone i have to pick is with companies like Proton who make these "budget cars" at not very budget prices. As for the rest of em, keep up the good work

the best to come out of Germany:

Small Cars: Audi A2/Mercedes Benz A-Class
Small Saloon: BMW 3 series/Mercedes Benz C-Class/Audi A4
Big Saloon: Mercedes E-Class/BMW 5-series/Audi A6
Luxury Cars: Mercedes-Benz S-Class/Audi A8
Coupe: Mercedes Benz CLK/CL
Convertible: Mercedes Benz SLK/SL, Porsche Boxster
Sports Cars: Porsche 911 Turbo/GT3/GT2/
Super Cars: Mercedes Benz CLK-GTR/Porsche 911 GT1

I think every car listed here is near enough leader in their class, with the exception of the Sports Cars to the Italian marques. Judging by this i dont see how any other country can be classed as better than Germany

Small Cars: Audi A2/Mercedes Benz A-Class

That's right, you lucky bitches in Europe have two times what we have here, just a few that I think would be cool in america are the polo and the s3. You guys also have a hell of a lot more diesel engines availible to you.

Originally posted by Porsche911T


That's right, you lucky bitches in Europe have two times what we have here, just a few that I think would be cool in america are the polo and the s3. You guys also have a hell of a lot more diesel engines availible to you.

we need the diesel engines though. our fuel is so damn expensive that we have to look for ways of economy without sacrificing performance e.g BMW 330D, MB S320 CDi.

Volkswagen also has several different diesel engines available for the Golf in europe, we are stuck with the 1.9L 90HP here in the US. Maybe in the future when we get the same diesel fuel you guys get these engines will be available.

Originally posted by Porsche911T
Volkswagen also has several different diesel engines available for the Golf in europe, we are stuck with the 1.9L 90HP here in the US. Maybe in the future when we get the same diesel fuel you guys get these engines will be available.

yeh VW are doing some amazing things with diesel engines. i think the GT-TDi golf is actually faster than the GTi now

I think I'll have to pick the Germans as well.

Theres a saying on how to best build things, its something like

Invent like and American, refine like the Germans and produce like the Japanese.

Invent like and American, refine like the Germans and produce like the Japanese.

Hmm if they did that, every car would be perfect.

http://automotriz.reforma.com/offlines/imgs/autopostales/postales/Portada/93G.jpg

Clio V6 by the French automaker RENAULT, 230bhp for the moment and 275 next year (after restyling) :)

Originally posted by ThomasB
http://automotriz.reforma.com/offlines/imgs/autopostales/postales/Portada/93G.jpg

Clio V6 by the French automaker RENAULT, 230bhp for the moment and 275 next year (after restyling) :)

and its also a killer in the wet...........literally

It's not a car for girls !!! :cool:

Very nice looking car, but on the road, the Clio V6 isnt much quicker than the Sport 172, which is disappointing considering the difference in price. upgrade in power is well needed

May I remind you all who didn't vote for Germany due to lack of Engineering, the new Maybach's engine measures torsional vibrations int he crankshaft to ensures proper combustion as well as sometinhg to do with measuring the ions or ion gap in the spark plug, if that's not engineering then I love American cars.

America, Japan, Germany, and Italy will always be in the front running for the best cars for diff reasons..
american - power made
japan - efficient, reliable
germany - engineering
italy - exotic... :)

The first Clio V6 was not really good for the price. It's was made too quickly. But the restylled one is much more better. Today it makes 255hp and a new version (275hp) is programmed.
To me the best car makers are Germany, France and Italy. But you've also very nice makes/models elsewhere : Jaguar, Viper, Corvette, Volvo, etc.

Originally posted by YogsVR4
I think I'll have to pick the Germans as well.

Theres a saying on how to best build things, its something like

Invent like and American, refine like the Germans and produce like the Japanese.

what have the Americans invented? I would have said the Germans are the most innovative, Benz in particular....

Overall nothing touches the Germans.. shame their cars couldnt have a little more flair or extravagance...

I'm agree with Crayzayjay. German cars are maybe the best, even if there are sometimes not warm enough (especially Audi VW).
American cars are not my favourites. But they do some nice cars (Viper Corvette, 300M).

I dont understand why modern Audi's are so damn cold and "clinical".... an Audi is a doctor's car, thats how i see it...

Doctors need cars too :D

lol.. of course they do, but you see what i mean, right? An Audi makes no emotional connection with the driver... my friend's A3 is very nice but you would never fall in love with it... BMW and Merc are slightly different..

BMW owners are usually very fond of the styling as they like to think it makes a statement about them... also, the dynamic way the car performs makes them fall in love with it.

Merc strikes a connection with its driver because its such a nice, relaxing place to be, the interior of a M-B.... and its exactly the same to drive, and the driver appreciates that...

to me an Audi is for someone who just needs a nice car but doesnt want a BM or MB.... dont get me wrong, there are some very desirable Audi;s, the RS4 and RS6 are very quick and have unbelievable performance, but theyre no M5's by any means of the imagination... this is according to all tests the cars have been subjected to.... cant beat a 5 year old design (M5), now thats pretty bad...

An Audi is a nice car, but indeed, it's not as emotional as a BMW, a Porsche, A Peugeot, an Alfa, or a Jag for example. I think the same thing for Japanese cars.

absolutely... the japanese have zero-emotion cars

some american cars too...
ouh, we'll have lot of troubles with other people (Americans !) on this forum !!! :D

If theyre not willing to be honest, its not my problem.

American cars are for the most part void of any emotion...

I think Italy,Germany and America make the best.But my vote goes to America becuase my favorite cars are Cadillacs.

some Cadillac are nice... but that's not enough to be a good car.

Originally posted by crayzayjay
absolutely... the japanese have zero-emotion cars

I used to think exactly the same thing, but then I got drive quite a few of them.

Its certianly true for a large percentage of the cars that come out of Japan, but there are plenty of cars that have just as much chracter and emotion when driven as any British or Itilian car.

Name 'em :)

some Cadillac are nice... but that's not enough to be a good car.




I don't think you know what your talking about.Cadillac makes some of the best cars in the world.Besides looking great they have just about every option a Rolls Royce has and they ride like a dream.Infact Cadillacs have some options that Royce doesn't such as night vision.So if not Cadillac what do you consider to be a good car?

some Cadillac are nice... but that's not enough to be a good car.


You must be a sick and demented human being.Cadillac make some of the best cars on earth.Cadillac competes with some of the best luxery automakers in the world such as Mercedes and Bently.Cadillacs have great looks and every option any other luxery car has and some options some others don't have such as night vision and a great ride.Also very powerful engines.What do you consider to be a "good car" if not Cadillac?

I understand that you like Cadillac because you're american, you have to defend this make.
It's not a bad make. But you can't say that it's as good as a Rolls, a Bentley, a BMW, etc. I'm sorry. And, just a question : why do we see Mercedes, Rolls, Audi all arround the world, and Cadillacs only in North America ? Drive a Cadillac and a BMW 7 series, and you'll see that the first can't compete. I cant' hope driving a Cadillac on little roads as fast as with a BMW or a Peugeot, Alfa, etc. etc. (with the same size).

Cadillacs do have qualities, but not technically at all.

Originally posted by crayzayjay
Name 'em :)


Honda Civic all RS and SiR models from 1974-2000
Type R Civic and Integra.
Honda Accord
Honda Prelude
Toyota Corrolla FXGT and GT (all models from the old RWD to the new VVi powered FWD)
All the NZ made Corrollas with the Chris Amon suspensin.
Nissan Skyline GTR. (not the lesser models)
Nissan Pulsar GTiR, SSS, GTi, X1R etc etc
Any Pre 1980 Datsun or Nissan.

Want me to keep going?

and note nearly all of the above cars were never sold in the US.

Personally, I don't like German cars; they may be powerfully engineered, but most of them don't seem built to last, although my Z3 has proved reliable and some Volkswagens are pleasantly solid. I've never driven an Italian car, so I can't comment on those.

I think the best overall carmakers would be the Swedes- their efforts aren't even trying to be rockets or styling leaders, but they feel like they're built just right.

I appreciate Japanese build quality as well, but none of them seem passionate enough about their cars, with the possible exception of Subaru and also Mazda. Those pre-1980 Datsuns are also nice, but Nissan seems firmly entrenched in commuter sedan dullsville these days. Still, no one can engineer as well as those Europeans.

Originally posted by CopperHed210
You must be a sick and demented human being
hey, cool it there.... this is a car forum. thats no way to present your case


Originally posted by CopperHed210

Cadillac make some of the best cars on earth.Cadillac competes with some of the best luxery automakers in the world such as Mercedes and Bentley.Cadillacs have great looks and every option any other luxery car has and some options some others don't have such as night vision and a great ride.Also very powerful engines.What do you consider to be a "good car" if not Cadillac?

I'll admit to not having any personal experience of Cadillacs, at least not recent ones. But the STS was mocked over here, it was simply thrashed by BMW, Merc, all competitors in every road test i saw/read. It made a nice sound and had a lot of gadgets, so youre right on the latter aspect, but that was about it. Night vision is a neat little trick, but it does not a good car make. I wouldnt think of comparing a Caddy to a Bentley, thats ridiculous. The upcoming CTS looks set to be a good car though.

Originally posted by Moppie



Honda Civic all RS and SiR models from 1974-2000
Type R Civic and Integra.
Honda Accord
Honda Prelude
Toyota Corrolla FXGT and GT (all models from the old RWD to the new VVi powered FWD)
All the NZ made Corrollas with the Chris Amon suspensin.
Nissan Skyline GTR. (not the lesser models)
Nissan Pulsar GTiR, SSS, GTi, X1R etc etc
Any Pre 1980 Datsun or Nissan.

Want me to keep going?

and note nearly all of the above cars were never sold in the US.

hmmm.... to be honest, while i like a lot of those cars, particularly Integra Type R and R33 GTR, i dont think they have "emotion". Character, yes, but not emotion. At least the ones i know from the list.

I just noticed the Pulsar GTiR in the list. Now tell me that has half, no wait, an eighth of the character or emotion of an Integrale. Impossible.

I think its the fact that Japanese cars will always start and run forever that makes you develop a bond with the car. That was certainly the case for our Prelude, an early 80's model that we gave to my cousin. It's still running today, there must be a good half million kilometres on it, and still the original engine :)

What I ment is that Cadillac has some things Bently doesnt and vise versa.But NO car is worth 200 grand.Cadillacs are much better than BMW's.Im sorry but BMW doesnt come close to as good as Cadillac.Cadillacs last a lot longer,they have a better ride andyou get more for your money with Caddys.Night vision is a great invention.There are tons of accident a year were deer get hit by cars mostly in the evening and early moring.I just read on Popularmechanics.com that one of U.S's largest limo services is moving there limos from Lincolns to Cadillacs only because of night vision.

Originally posted by La Temperanza

but none of them seem passionate enough about their cars, with the possible exception of Subaru and also Mazda.

If there is one manufactor is truely pasionate about makeing drivers cars its Honda.
Thier whole company philosophy is geared around motorsport.
Do a little resurch on thier history, and especialy on the history of Ashirio(sp??) Honda the founder and you will see what I mean.
And also note thier success out side Japan (F1, Indy etc) and in Japan. They are quite simply Japans most successfull manufactor when it comes to motorsport. Not even Toyota and Subaru with thier WRC wins come close.

Mazda would certianly come in 2nd, but its a distant 2nd, and only becasue of thier persistance with the Rotory engine.

Subarus even WRX's are however some of the most souless cars on the planet.



And CrazyJay how do you define emotion in a car?
Iv driven a Lotus Esprit at over 200kph, hung the tail out on an Elise, and done a power slide in a Maserati Bi-Turbo. Iv also side stepped a 100a Datsun cherry at 80kph on a wet road, run a Triumph 2500TC around a race track on its door handles and run the tyres off the rims of a Mini. Iv made a car dealer nearly wet himself in an SiR Civic, and shown a mate how his MK1 MR2 should be driven.
Its only a small selection of the cars I have been luckey enough to own and or drive, but it covers England, Italy and Japan, A car that in its prime was one of the fastest road cars avliable, and a car that was one of the slowest, and it covers 4 decades.
Yet all the cars despite all thier differnces have bucket loads of Emotion when driven.

You simply can't say that just because a car was made in a certian country by a certian manufactor it has no emotion.
Infact from my experiance some of the most mundane and boring looking cars can provide some of the most entertianing and enjoyable drives, while some flash cars intended to be sports models have been a complete let down, and no better than playing Playstation.

How do i define emotion in a car?

thats a tough one... basically a car that has emotion is a car that just has something about it, something special that distinguishes it from other cars of its time, or in its class etc... It has to be entertaining to drive, it has to communicate with you, it has to make you smile so much you cant help laughing when youre driving the nuts off it. it has to have a little quirk.. it has to stay special. you have to look back at it at the end of a trip and want to fire it up and go round the block again... it has to have a nice interior, something a little special, something you want to sit back and gaze at... it has to look good on the outside, a shape you could never get tired of looking at... it has to stand out from the crowd.. you have to be able to form a bond with it, never want to let it go... it has to feel like an extension of your own body... this is emotion in a car...

ok you wont find many cars with all of the above, but some factors are most important than others, and for me a Japanese pocket rocket with a grey interior just has no new tricks for me. A lotus esprit, yes. A Maz bi-turbo? thats a bucket-full of character right there.. but a Honda Civic? No chance

Originally posted by crayzayjay
A lotus esprit, yes. A Maz bi-turbo? thats a bucket-full of character right there.. but a Honda Civic? No chance


If you include body and interior design into the equation then the Civic is left out, but I have never rated a car on how it looks, I have only ever been interested in how it drives. And on purly how it drives my Civic deffinitly has plenty of emotion. Ill admit that 75% of that comes from the engine, but the Chassis is one of the best balanced and most well behaved that I ever driven, its certianly not the same class of car as the Lotus or Mazeriti, but a car does not have to be an exotic to exhibit emotion.

If you ever make it down this way ill take you for a drive and you will soon know what I mean. :)

You've sold me on the Civic. I must admit i prefer the old ones to the new ones. Id still gladly go for the ride though :D

That reminds me, my dad had a Honda Prelude in the early 80's (which is actually still on the road); that was a pretty cool car for its time. I drove it a couple of years ago and remember being very impressed by the way it drove, some 20 years after it first ran! And i wasnt just poodling along!

Honda have fantastic engineers but the reason i judge their cars as not generating enough "emotion" is because of the way they are packaged. Theyre too cold, which ultimately blunts the experience. Like i said before, you cant say a Pulsar GTiR has an eighth of the emotion or character of an Integrale. Never mind it's not as good or fun to drive, look at the difference in the way they look. When i see an Integrale EVO, i stop in my tracks and stare. The Nissan however doesnt get a second glance. The attitude an EVO gives off is incredible, the Nissan looks cheap. Sitting inside a Special Edition EVO is fantastic, sitting in the Nissan is almost like sitting in any other Nissan Sunny. The Lancia has more mystique. This creates emotion. This is where the majority of Japanese contenders fall off.

If you include body and interior design into the equation then the Civic is left out, but I have never rated a car on how it looks
neither have i, but then we're not talkin about how good the cars are but something entirely different ;)

Originally posted by Moppie


If there is one manufactor is truely pasionate about makeing drivers cars its Honda.



well.......They sertainly hae thier days of.....For example, all the smaller-engined DOHC VTEC cars like the B16a, B18c and H22a powered cars are all good drives, as are the NSX, S2000 and the Swindon-made Accord Type R.

However the rest of the cars like the Legend, Accord, Civic, SOHC Integras and Jazz aren't anything to write home about, while they are lively, they are very uninspiring to drive, in fact the Accord V6 is possibly the most boring car I have ever driven , infact Moppie it's shocking you consider an Accord a good drive :eek: I'd sooner take a 2.0 Twinspark 156 rather than a new Accord or evena 155 rather than the older models.

of course an Alfa (even the "little engines") is much more exciting than an Accord.

Accords arent bad cars.. ok theyre a little character-less, but theyre very competent and have a pretty good chassis... :wave:

the European ones do but the US market ones (The only variation of the recent Accord that I have driven apart from a short spin in a Japanese SiR) are soggy in thier handling and chassis. Great engines though

Originally posted by Jimmy_11_cars
the European ones do but the US market ones

And there mate is the catch, thier made soft and lifeless for American tastes.
My mother however has a Vti Nelson Assembled Accord that gets along quite nicely thank you.

Originally posted by Moppie


And there mate is the catch, thier made soft and lifeless for American tastes.
My mother however has a Vti Nelson Assembled Accord that gets along quite nicely thank you.


Well...........Well......My dad used to have a gen 6 VTiL V6 assembled in Nelson, I still though it was soggy and uninspiring, his 2.2 Nelson-built EXiS 5th Gen was much better :)

Originally posted by Jimmy_11_cars

his 2.2 Nelson-built EXiS 5th Gen was much better :)

Sounds like my mothers car, same engine, only it has VTi badges (no leather etc). I believe the V6s are ment to be bit softer as they appeal to a differnt market.
And the 2nd Nelson built car in my Family, as my Old dead Triumph was also built there. (but in 1973!)

Originally posted by Moppie


Sounds like my mothers car, same engine, only it has VTi badges (no leather etc). I believe the V6s are ment to be bit softer as they appeal to a differnt market.
And the 2nd Nelson built car in my Family, as my Old dead Triumph was also built there. (but in 1973!)
well, not exactly, the VTi (Whic was a facelift 5th gen) had VTEC power, where as the pre-facelift (Such as my dads EXi-S) Nelson-built cars were not VTEC powered, except in the form of the imported VTiS.


The EXiS put out 104Kw, the VTi 107 :)

My mothers has a VTEC F series engine (2.2L SOHC) in it, and is built in Nelson. :)

Originally posted by Jimmy_11_cars
the European ones do but the US market ones (The only variation of the recent Accord that I have driven) are soggy in thier handling and chassis. Great engines though
Well im not surprised to hear that at all!

Honda probably sent them the good version of the Accord first, but a fat American complained that the suspension was too hard and sporty for his liking. he tried to gain more weight to make the bumps easier to cushion for his ass, but the feedback from the chassis was intensified by his flubber and actually made it worse. He proceeded to sue Honda, for causing great pain and emotional distress to his ass. The trial went to the Supreme Court, and the fat man was awarded eight-hundred-million us dollars and forty-five cents - only. Honda then took back all the european spec hondas, detuned the chassis and sent them back to America. They lived happily ever after.

Originally posted by CopperHed210



Moppie why are you such a dickhead.What do you have against Americans?.Americans have great tastse and thats why we make top of the lines cars.American version or not,Hondas are shit and they suck,just like you Moppie.They are all made lifeless thats why they start to rust within 2 years of being made.If you don't have anything good or intelligent to say then leave the(how do you damn people say it over there) bloody boards.you are a damn queer who serves no purpose here and that doesnt know a car from a damn hole in the ground.So take your damn communist,American hating ideas and pack them in your ass!

bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! This has got to be THE most stupid, most badly written post on AF since the days of Rico :lol2::lol2:

Wheres your proof Hondas start to rust after 2 years, because when my mum flogged off her 1996 VTi Civic in May 2001 (4 1/2 years old) it had never even had a paint problem yet alone rust problems, my dad has owned one of every Generation Accord and flogged it off after 3 years, none of them gave a lick of trouble and even me, Jimmy owned a 1995 Prelude 2.2 EXi until late 2001, boring drive, but fantastic reliability

Moppie is a well opinionated guy and has probably driven 10 times the cars you have, on top of that 10 times the knowledge you'll ever possess.

Everything you have said about Moppie sums you up very well. So take a hike, dumb-shit.

Also what are these "Top of the line American cars"??? Last I heard America had very few good cars (Viper, Vette and that's it)




I still can't get over how dumb your post is, I can't imagine how bad it must feel to be so stupid and mis-informed :( :( :(



Crayzayjay- LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats too fucking funny, because it's all so true :D

Hmmm hey heres a really smart idea lets all go flame a mod :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I see one more out of line post CopperHed210 and you can say bye bye to AF for ever. :devil: :finger:

Originally posted by CopperHed210
You are one dumb fuck!You call me uniformed?You dumb fucking imbred queers over there are so ignorant!IT KINDA SUCKS WHEN YOUR TOO UNIFORMED TO BACK UP WHAT YOU SAY!When I said that Hondas rot within two years of being made you know that I didnt literaly mean ALL Hondas.I meant the majority.Wheres my proof?I live in Brookyn so half that damn Japs that live here own the damn things most of them fairly new and they are rotting.So whos mister uniformed now jackass?!?!O and I doubt Moppie has driven more cars then I have.Trust me buddy,I live in brooklyn.Ive driven just about everything from Harleys to Mercedes to Rigs!All moppie drives is his damn father in his bathroom.And about more automotive knowledge,I seriouly doubt it.My father owns a Mechanics garage and when Im not busy Im there.America makes sum of the best cars infact.Thats kinda why GM is THE leading car manufactuer in the world.Now don't be telling me that Bentlys and Rolls are better because thats common sense.Paces like Europe make very few good cars such as...wait,are there any?Talk to you gaylords later.



:flipa: :silly2: :flipa: :silly2: :flipa: :silly2: OH GOD!!!!!!!! This guy is too funny :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Personal flames are a good sign of a bad argument. Needless to say YOU cannot back anything up.

Who gives if you live in Brooklyn I lived in New Zealand for 27 years, Japanese cars make up well over 75% of the NZ car population. Now most of these cars are still going strong after 300,000 miles, in fact most Japanese cars live for about 15 years and the only reason the cars die is because they are worth next to nothing come re-sale so they are scrapped and VERY few ever give a reliability probem. CARE TO GO AROUND BROOKLYN AND TAKE SOME OF THESE ROTTING CARS??? Because if you want I could send my step-brother (Moss1O6GTi) around NZ To take some pictures of some old Japanese cars still kicking- because there is plenty of them. And if so that the Japanese cars in America are shit, most Japanese cars that are in America are <Shock> BUILT in America. I do find your post amusing "I just said most waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" Well my family has owned at least 30 Japanese cars in between us all, and NEVER has any single one given us a problem.

I notice that you still aren't naming these "Brilliant American cars" the fact remains they are crude, poorly made, lousy quality materials, ugly, lousy to drive, boring, overwieght and even the V8's are occasionally gutless yet alone the 6's and 4's- Never mind the fact that a lot are still using live rear axle. GM is only the leading manufacturer in the world because they supply a large American market, GM USA do VERY little export, in fact in Europe the only AMERICAN cars you can walk into a showroom and buy are the Voyager, Viper, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, PT Cruiser and Wrangler and most of those are built in Graz, Austria.

As for Europe they make THE best cars in the world, Ferrari's, Porsches, BMW's, Bentley/Rolls. Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Lotus, TVR, Maserati, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Land Rover, Saab and Volvo out-do thier American competitors with ease, for example would you ever take a Lincoln LS over a BMW 5-series/Mercedes E-class??? Thought not. How about a Corvette over a MAserati Coupe??? Hell no. There is the fact that European cars are technologically superior in EVERY possible way and the driving experience is far superior, not to mention the fact European engines such as those of AMG, ///M, Maserati and Ferrari FAR outdo the ancient American V8's and 6's.

Then there is the lower-key European manufacturers. Skoda, SEAT, Peugeot, VW, Citroen, Rover/MG, Lancia, FIAT, Alfa Romeo, Renault and MCC. The American made cars don't stand a chance against ANY of these cars, for example the Alfa Romeo 156's closest American competitor is the Cadillac CTS, the Alfa blows it away in EVERY single catagorey, Build quality, technology, Performance, driving experience, reliability (Not something you once would associate with Alfa but the 156 is a quantam leap) and EVEN the driving ergonomics. and does the Buick Regal stand a chance against a Peugeot 4O6 NO WAY!!!!! It'd get walked over chewed up and spat out.




Perhaps since you have been so badly owned, you might wnat to consider leaving AF. :)

Originally posted by Moppie
Hmmm hey heres a really smart idea lets all go flame a mod :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I see one more out of line post CopperHed210 and you can say bye bye to AF for ever. :devil: :finger:


hmmmmm......Missed your post there captain :) :)

I'll 0wn him by PM from now on :D

OH GOD!!!!!!!! This guy is too funny

Personal flames are a good sign of a bad argument. Needless to say YOU cannot back anything up.

Who gives if you live in Brooklyn I lived in New Zealand for 27 years, Japanese cars make up well over 75% of the NZ car population. Now most of these cars are still going strong after 300,000 miles, in fact most Japanese cars live for about 15 years and the only reason the cars die is because they are worth next to nothing come re-sale so they are scrapped and VERY few ever give a reliability probem. CARE TO GO AROUND BROOKLYN AND TAKE SOME OF THESE ROTTING CARS??? Because if you want I could send my step-brother (Moss1O6GTi) around NZ To take some pictures of some old Japanese cars still kicking- because there is plenty of them. And if so that the Japanese cars in America are shit, most Japanese cars that are in America are <Shock> BUILT in America. I do find your post amusing "I just said most waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" Well my family has owned at least 30 Japanese cars in between us all, and NEVER has any single one given us a problem.

I notice that you still aren't naming these "Brilliant American cars" the fact remains they are crude, poorly made, lousy quality materials, ugly, lousy to drive, boring, overwieght and even the V8's are occasionally gutless yet alone the 6's and 4's- Never mind the fact that a lot are still using live rear axle. GM is only the leading manufacturer in the world because they supply a large American market, GM USA do VERY little export, in fact in Europe the only AMERICAN cars you can walk into a showroom and buy are the Voyager, Viper, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, PT Cruiser and Wrangler and most of those are built in Graz, Austria.

As for Europe they make THE best cars in the world, Ferrari's, Porsches, BMW's, Bentley/Rolls. Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Lotus, TVR, Maserati, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Land Rover, Saab and Volvo out-do thier American competitors with ease, for example would you ever take a Lincoln LS over a BMW 5-series/Mercedes E-class??? Thought not. How about a Corvette over a MAserati Coupe??? Hell no. There is the fact that European cars are technologically superior in EVERY possible way and the driving experience is far superior, not to mention the fact European engines such as those of AMG, ///M, Maserati and Ferrari FAR outdo the ancient American V8's and 6's.

Then there is the lower-key European manufacturers. Skoda, SEAT, Peugeot, VW, Citroen, Rover/MG, Lancia, FIAT, Alfa Romeo, Renault and MCC. The American made cars don't stand a chance against ANY of these cars, for example the Alfa Romeo 156's closest American competitor is the Cadillac CTS, the Alfa blows it away in EVERY single catagorey, Build quality, technology, Performance, driving experience, reliability (Not something you once would associate with Alfa but the 156 is a quantam leap) and EVEN the driving ergonomics. and does the Buick Regal stand a chance against a Peugeot 4O6 NO WAY!!!!! It'd get walked over chewed up and spat out.




Perhaps since you have been so badly owned, you might wnat to consider leaving AF.






I backed up EVERYTHING I said.And I see you still havent.Therefore it IS OPINION.Its wierd because just about everybody in this fucking shithole have because assholes like yourself.A few days ago I found this forum.Not gonna say the addy because I know all you asswipes will come running.The people here are a lot more intelligent and show respect to eachother.And actually know what they are talking about so they dont make a fool of them selfs.Trust me,there is plenty I can say to slam and bash like I did in my last post for your last post.Im just waiting for your fellow dickwad moderators to bann me.And Igor,you alright,but you really need to get thinks undercontrol here.Maybe get rid of a few of these morons you let in.
Oh,hey slim jim,I live in New York City,the second biggest city in the world,which has 80 times the population NZ has,which also means we have 80 times more cars here than you do.So why dont you glue your eyes from the screen and go plow a polar bear.

I cant believe he called you a communist.... whats wrong with these people? i hate this "species" of americans. note: i have no qualms whatsoever with the rest of yas :wave:

he could have at least spelt inbred correctly.... inbred b*stard

Originally posted by Jimmy_11_cars
Crayzayjay- LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats too fucking funny, because it's all so true :D

glad you enjoyed it :D

CopperHed210 seems to be very spart, isn't it ? :D :D

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

A genius, i would say :D

Jimmy: You seem to have a lot of time on your hands. All your arguments have to do with how well your European cars are built. But lets compare some prices. You pay about twice as much for your great European cars as you do for American cars. How can you compare that? Comparing a Maserati to a stock Corvette? C'mon. How about comparing a Maserati to a Lingingfelter Corvette? I believe the Corvette would wipe the floor with your Italian beauty. Hell, that Corvette would wipe the floor with almost any European piece you could through at it. And yes, I'd rather drive a Lincoln LS than a BMW because the Lincoln has good old American muscle behind it. You Europeans don't know the feeling of TORQUE!!!!!!!!! All your cars make horsepower but no torque. Have you ever driven a Lincoln? It's a great car for the money. Europeans cars are over-priced and underpowered, PERIOD!!!!! You can't argue that, name a European car and I'll match it with an American that will have twice the power and cost half as much. How about the Cadillac Cien? You gotta love it. Monster horsepower, great looks, and the best technology. Shutting down half it's cylinders to save gas, it's a great concept. Do you find that in a Lamorghini or McLaren? Nope, you just pay the hefty price tag for the name. Argue if you want, but I will destroy you in every argument you can through at me. You're a typical European who can criticize all he wants but can't explain how the internal cumbstion engine works, let alone how anit-lock brakes work. Now go have some pasta and stop acting like you know everything.

Crazyjay: Was that a joke about Americans being fat? I'm sure all you Englishmen are in great shape. England is a wannabe America, you know it but don't want to admit it. Now save your money and buy some braces for your teeth. Teeth are supposed to point up and down, not left and right.

Moppie: Are you telling on CoperHead? You must be the tough guy in the room. Telling on everybody that offends you. I think you should go back to elementry school buddy and grow some balls.

oh, another very nice guy !! ...

Just a question : why can you see Maserati, Peugeot, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Volkswagen, Bentley, and so on, all arroud the world (Europe, Asia, Australia/NZ, Japan, America, Africa) and not your so perfect american cars ??... people who wants to buy a good car will generally prefer to buy an European or eventually a Japanese car.

American cars outside North America are for non-rich people because you cars are not expensive... but they're cheap because it's not really good cars (Chevrolet Corsa, etc.).
And for the medium and expensive ameriacn cars, we cannot see it outside North America.

European cars are more expensive, why ? because we know how to spare gas (control of weight and cx), to make good handling and to built well our cars. American cars cannot. They "suck" a lot of gas, you can't drive quickly with it (except maybe on highways), they're not well build.

But American cars can have some charm, and I personnally like some. But you must admit that they're of course not the best.
American people do many things well but they're nor thefirst for cars industry !

Originally posted by YJHeD
How about the Cadillac Cien? You gotta love it. Monster horsepower, great looks, and the best technology. Shutting down half it's cylinders to save gas, it's a great concept. Do you find that in a Lamorghini or McLaren? Nope, you just pay the hefty price tag for the name. Argue if you want, but I will destroy you in every argument you can through at me.

Actually Mercedes Benz invented that several years ago .. destroy that! :lol2: i love it when you brag about being right about something and then you get shown up to be wrong.... fantastic :D

Originally posted by YJHeD

Crazyjay: Was that a joke about Americans being fat? I'm sure all you Englishmen are in great shape. England is a wannabe America, you know it but don't want to admit it. Now save your money and buy some braces for your teeth. Teeth are supposed to point up and down, not left and right.


No, not all Englishmen are fat, and neither are all Americans. However im sure if you look into it you will find that America has the highest proportion of obese people in the world. 1 in 5 or something, or even worse. in america its all about excess. you order one breakfast and you get two, on one big plate. thats just the way it is over there. and if youre happy with it, thats cool.

No, england is not a wannabe america. There's an English culture and english history that America simply cannot come close to.... english people dont like americans much, thats a fact. they like america but dont like americans. it doesnt sound like it makes sense but believe me thats how it works.

and whats this talk about teeth? mine are perfect.. now stop taking your frustration out on me, please. thank you

lol way to 0wn him stephanel and jay :D

now it's my turn :devil:


Jimmy: You seem to have a lot of time on your hands. All your arguments have to do with how well your European cars are built. But lets compare some prices. You pay about twice as much for your great European cars as you do for American cars. How can you compare that? Comparing a Maserati to a stock Corvette? C'mon. How about comparing a Maserati to a Lingingfelter Corvette? I believe the Corvette would wipe the floor with your Italian beauty. Hell, that Corvette would wipe the floor with almost any European piece you could through at it. And yes, I'd rather drive a Lincoln LS than a BMW because the Lincoln has good old American muscle behind it. You Europeans don't know the feeling of TORQUE!!!!!!!!! All your cars make horsepower but no torque. Have you ever driven a Lincoln? It's a great car for the money. Europeans cars are over-priced and underpowered, PERIOD!!!!! You can't argue that, name a European car and I'll match it with an American that will have twice the power and cost half as much. How about the Cadillac Cien? You gotta love it. Monster horsepower, great looks, and the best technology. Shutting down half it's cylinders to save gas, it's a great concept. Do you find that in a Lamorghini or McLaren? Nope, you just pay the hefty price tag for the name. Argue if you want, but I will destroy you in every argument you can through at me. You're a typical European who can criticize all he wants but can't explain how the internal cumbstion engine works, let alone how anit-lock brakes work. Now go have some pasta and stop acting like you know everything.
Do I hear rustling???? Oh nm it's just you trying to argue your way out of that wet paper bag


firstly I aren't European I am a New Zealander living in Europe :rolleyes:




Can a Corvette match teh exhaust note, exclusivity or peerless handling of a Maserati???? NO can it match it's build quality- NO
No matter how much you modify a Corvette and make it go fast in a straight line- doesn't mean it will go fast through the corners in fact- all that power + Ancient mechanics = terminal oversteer


I know the feeling of torque my Alfa had bucketloads of it, in fact it towed a caravan like it was a dinghy the LS has fuck all torque it's a weak as piss V6 engine, my Alfa would no doubt have walked over it and my next one will do the same
- and YES I have driven a Lincoln.


ABS brakes- they prevent a cars wheels locking up when heavy force in placed upon the brake pedal, thus enabling a car to steer out of an accident.


I wll continue this sometime later :finger4:

Originally posted by YJHeD
Moppie: Are you telling on CoperHead? You must be the tough guy in the room. Telling on everybody that offends you. I think you should go back to elementry school buddy and grow some balls.


I dont have to tell on Copperhead, I just press a little button with ban on it. And I can assure my balls are much much bigger than yours :finger:

I suggest you have a read of the guidlines before you get to carried away here, your post was inacurate at best, irrational and insulting at worst.

Originally posted by Moppie



I dont have to tell on Copperhead, I just press a little button with ban on it. And I can assure my balls are much much bigger than yours :finger:

I suggest you have a read of the guidlines before you get to carried away here, your post was inacurate at best, irrational and insulting at worst.

and irritating in the middle :D

Wow, we have some tough guys in the room. People who like to tell on each other, think they know everything, and people who can't argue. But then again that's very typical of arrogant Europeans.

Crazyjay: I never said that Cadillac invented the system, I just said you won't find it on the beloved Italian exotics you morons pay for. Oh yeah--please cling on to your history because you barely have a present and no forseeable future unless, of course, the US grants you the privilege of becoming its 51st state. Until then, you may keep prancing around in your nightgowns and sipping tea.

Jimmy: I guess if you "aren't" a European then you "aren't" a European. I guess you "aren't" an English professor either. IMHO the exhaust note of a Corvette sounds a hell of a lot better than a Maserati. And the last review I heard of the Maserati was that it was a poorly made piece of crap. Your Alfa has buckloads or torque??? That's pretty funny, please tell me the numbers on how much torque your Alfa has. So you towed a Caravan across town?? Wow, a Dodge Ram can tow 14,000 lbs. dumb ass. Yeah, that probably weighs more than the home you live in. Your explanation of how ABS works was pretty funny too. Did you read that off a magazine ad?

Stefanel: You do see American cars all over the place. Half of your "European" companies are owned by American companies. Why would Chevy ship their cars over to Europe when you're already buying the Saab and Opel? Why would Ford send SUVs and cars over seas when you already love the Land Rover and Aston Martin? Please explain.

Originally posted by YJHeD
Wow, we have some tough guys in the room. People who like to tell on each other, think they know everything, and people who can't argue. But then again that's very typical of arrogant Europeans.

Crazyjay: I never said that Cadillac invented the system, I just said you won't find it on the beloved Italian exotics you morons pay for. Oh yeah--please cling on to your history because you barely have a present and no forseeable future unless, of course, the US grants you the privilege of becoming its 51st state. Until then, you may keep prancing around in your nightgowns and sipping tea.

Jimmy: I guess if you "aren't" a European then you "aren't" a European. I guess you "aren't" an English professor either. IMHO the exhaust note of a Corvette sounds a hell of a lot better than a Maserati. And the last review I heard of the Maserati was that it was a poorly made piece of crap. Your Alfa has buckloads or torque??? That's pretty funny, please tell me the numbers on how much torque your Alfa has. So you towed a Caravan across town?? Wow, a Dodge Ram can tow 14,000 lbs. dumb ass. Yeah, that probably weighs more than the home you live in. Your explanation of how ABS works was pretty funny too. Did you read that off a magazine ad?

Stefanel: You do see American cars all over the place. Half of your "European" companies are owned by American companies. Why would Chevy ship their cars over to Europe when you're already buying the Saab and Opel? Why would Ford send SUVs and cars over seas when you already love the Land Rover and Aston Martin? Please explain.


Oooooohhh.....sweet I'm in the mood for a bit of 0wnership :devil:

I typed that posted in a hell of a hurry, my grammar was probably a little pissy, boo-hoo life goes on.

As for the review of the Maserati- interesting- because I spent a few weeks with a 1999 3200GT Auto back in June and the build was impossible to fault- on a 20,000 Km car there was not a single squeak or rattle and I had a poke around- SIMPLY flawless. I get to drive all these Itallian exotics as I am the General Manager of one of Genoas numerous FIAT dealerships, as well as stocking Alfa Romeo and Lancia.

I can't give a torque figure, because I was never interested in Torqe- I want a light nimble car with a lively chassis and responsive engine, not a stupid-ass straights beater and WHY IN FUCKS NAME would I want to tow 14,000lbs????? absolutley pointless really and I towed that Caravan from my friend in Turins house all the way around North Italy as we did a little "road trip" so I could get to know Italy a bit more.

My description of ABS comes from personal experience fucktard.


The reason for American cars not being sold anywhere outside America is they are 1- Too big and impractical 2- The US has shitty roads so a soft, soggy car is appropriate, but European roads are vastly superior, so we can drive tightly suspended drivers cars over the glass smooth roads with out so much as a jitter. 3- They are badly built and made of cheap-shit materials 4- They use too much fuel which is not a good idea when you consider the fact taht Europeans use FAR more refined fuel than the Yanks. 5- They are butt ugly and failing that boring- Style is everything in Europe. 6- I could go on I really could but I'm starting to feel sorry for you- you have been owned so many time that you would be a good investment on the share market.


As for your comments about England being a 51st State dream on loser- if it weren't for the Brits America would be nothing but a useless wasteland. This is why the world hates America- not a suprise really. Thank god I was bought up in a society heavily influenced by British culture (NZ) otherwise I would pity turning out like you :(


Something interesting to ponder:

Ford introduced the European built Ka, Mondeo and (soon) Focus to the New Zealand market and they sold alongside veteran Australian Falcon/Fairmont- all of these cars post sky-high sales respective of thier class. They introduce the Explorer, Escape and Mustang- the Ford has barely sold 1 Mustang- the Escape and Explorer are getting pasted by the CRV and RAV4 in the way of sales.

Holden (GM) introduced the Corsa, Astra, Vectra and Zafira to the NZ market (All from Europe) these cars are sell-out successes- the Australian built Commdore is New Zealands best selling car. They introduced the Suburban- it flopped after 5 months on the market.


Also Chrysler Neon was removed due to poor sales, the Voyager gets a good parting from the Oddysey, Previa and Renault Scenic and the Jeep models seem to be the only American cars doing any decent.


Figures came from an Autotrader that Moss sent me a week ago and nemerous NZ Autocar price-lists (Which I can scan all if you like) :)

Originally posted by YJHeD
Wow, we have some tough guys in the room. People who like to tell on each other, think they know everything, and people who can't argue. But then again that's very typical of arrogant Europeans.



Well,Mr Hed............
This is your final warning.Come into the forums with this kind of crappy atitude again,you will be an ex-member.Troll posting is not permitted at AF,go find somewhere else to be offensive if you need to get it out of your system.If your profile is to be trusted,you are not a schoolkid.Stop with the schoolkid attitude.

in fact screw it- nobody reply to this morons constant pleas for attention- just ignore him- he'll go away. He doesn't speak any truth- he knows it we know it the whole of AF knows it- let's just let him die a quiet death- in fact I might suggest closing this thread, before anything comes about:)

Our friend YJHeD is too funny ! ...

Europe is going to fall, exact ? what is the first economic power in the world ? not your so superficial America, it's the EU.
Opel Land and Saab belong to American makers... ok, Mack belongs to Renault, Chrysler to Mercedes, and so on.
As Jimmy said, models which are conceived in the USA are not sold in Europe, Asia, NZ, etc. Another example, Chrysler never sold cars in Europe (except the Voyager which is far behind the Renault Espace), neither Ford US (Explorer, etc.), nor GM. Because it's made in the USA for the american market. There are only you (who are very patriotic) to buy you shit... oh, sorry, your poor car.
But you'll maybe, some day, know how to make cars as europeans :)
Seriously, American car are late of a decade, maybe more. Look on the handling : a current Voyager for example can't compete with the first Espace (1984), a Sebring with a BMW 3 series (E36), etc. etc. etc.

You car are indeed boring and ineffective on road. Why do American people drive so slow ? because their cars can't drive faster. If there was no so stupid speed limits and so straight line roads there, GM, Ford and Chrysler would have to close their doors or to improve a lot their car's technology... I think it'd have been the first solution and that you'd have only european or japanese cars in your country which has otherwise many qualities.

Just a last thing : english people are not as fat (even if they don't eat better food than you... sorry crayzayjay ;) ), as American people, that's a fact... 7% of american women weigh more than 175kg !!!!!!!!! excuse me I don't know how much it makes in your mesure but that's enormous. :oh:

Actually Mercedes Benz invented that several years ago .. destroy that! i love it when you brag about being right about something and then you get shown up to be wrong.... fantastic


Actually Cadillac invented that in the 20s.



and WHY IN FUCKS NAME would I want to tow 14,000lbs????? absolutley pointless


Its not pointless,if your a constuction worker,you might want one.If you own a party boat or a camper,you might want one.There are several reasons to want to own one of these,if there werent then they wouldnt be made and they wouldnt sell so well.




As for your comments about England being a 51st State dream on loser- if it weren't for the Brits America would be nothing but a useless wasteland. This is why the world hates America- not a suprise really. Thank god I was bought up in a society heavily influenced by British culture (NZ) otherwise I would pity turning out like you


If it werent for Brits America would be nothing but a wasteland?Open up a history book pal.A bunch of British people chose to come over here on there own will because they didnt have religous freedom over in Britain.And when they were over here Britain was still putting out 20 nonsence laws each year so thats basically started the American Revoulutionary War.which we all know Britain got blown away in that war.So dont be telling me that your country is the reason were here.



Well,Mr Hed............This is your final warning.Come into the forums with this kind of crappy atitude again,you will be an ex-member.Troll posting is not permitted at AF,go find somewhere else to be offensive if you need to get it out of your system.If your profile is to be trusted,you are not a schoolkid.Stop with the schoolkid attitude.


If you bann him than I suggest you get rid of everybody that has participated in this thread.EVERBODY in this thread has been offensive.And everybody has a crappy attitude toward a country.Brits hate us,we hate Brits but hey,life goes on.If someone is picking on how your country make cars o well,suck it up and get over it.NO country is perfect when it comes to cars.


You car are indeed boring and ineffective on road. Why do American people drive so slow ? because their cars can't drive faster. If there was no so stupid speed limits and so straight line roads there, GM, Ford and Chrysler would have to close their doors or to improve a lot their car's technology... I think it'd have been the first solution and that you'd have only european or japanese cars in your country which has otherwise many qualities.


It was probably the best idea for America to have speed limits.If there were no speed limits hundreds os thousainds would be dieing on the raods.We have these punk teenagers that have harldy any knowlegde of driving or arent mature enough to be behind the wheel.I was watching a show on the German Autobaun the other day and it was crazy how many were dieing because of the speedlimits on the stretch of highway.


Just a last thing : english people are not as fat (even if they don't eat better food than you... sorry crayzayjay ), as American people, that's a fact... 7% of american women weigh more than 175kg !!!!!!!!! excuse me I don't know how much it makes in your mesure but that's enormous. h:


Who cares how fat people are?Is this fatassforums.com or automotive forums.com.Lets stick to the subject and learn to get along.

If you bann him than I suggest you get rid of everybody that has participated in this thread.EVERBODY in this thread has been offensive.And everybody has a crappy attitude toward a country.Brits hate us,we hate Brits but hey,life goes on.If someone is picking on how your country make cars o well,suck it up and get over it.NO country is perfect when it comes to cars.


No.............What HE did was come into this thread and start flaming our nations to kingdom-come.



WE got pissed off with that and felt the need to defend our countries.


Had he not entered this thread we would all be getting along fine.




Now refer to my post above Stephanels please.






Still hoping the thread will be closed soon- This is getting out of hand :mad:

good idea Jimmy_11!