No Offense


GlassPack
09-04-2003, 09:04 PM
Hey
First off i would like to say no offence to all the big rotary fans out there.
I have used a rotary engine for many years and for some odd reason they went out of style where i am located. Nobody where i live can do much work on them other than maybe change the oil (which I can do myself). Nobody seems to no anything about them anymore. What I have decided to do is go from rotary to piston in my RX-7 and I am looking for some honesty on an engine that would fit in the engine bay of an RX-7 with more or the same amount of power the rotary engine would put out. I have been told a Supra engine but what would be the best piston engine to fit an RX-7 with.

Thanks

P.S. I love rotarys, but it is getting to cost to much to have to drive 8 hours to get a head gasket or seal replaced.

GundamExpo
09-05-2003, 09:27 AM
First off, I think its going to be really hard to get near the power to displacement ratio that the rotary engine has. I dont know too much about motors, so it would be great if an expert could tell me if im on track or not. Anyway, what about an S2000 motor?

Barwick
09-05-2003, 12:39 PM
Hey
First off i would like to say no offence to all the big rotary fans out there.
I have used a rotary engine for many years and for some odd reason they went out of style where i am located. Nobody where i live can do much work on them other than maybe change the oil (which I can do myself). Nobody seems to no anything about them anymore. What I have decided to do is go from rotary to piston in my RX-7 and I am looking for some honesty on an engine that would fit in the engine bay of an RX-7 with more or the same amount of power the rotary engine would put out. I have been told a Supra engine but what would be the best piston engine to fit an RX-7 with.

Thanks

P.S. I love rotarys, but it is getting to cost to much to have to drive 8 hours to get a head gasket or seal replaced.

Why do you need someone to do work on the "rotary"? The only time someone touches the inside of the engine is when it gets rebuilt. Every single other thing is the exact same as a piston engine.

GundamExpo
09-05-2003, 03:09 PM
Just a guess...
Perhaps hes worried about the engine requiring a rebuild when nobody in his area is capable of performing the task.

banditkiller
09-05-2003, 04:42 PM
he might have been thinking that.....either way ....if you are going to go with a piston engine.....best bet to do what everyone else does...unless you like being a little different....then go with the supra engine.....it wil be harder ...but with money anything can be accomplished.....ford 302 v-8's drop in with an engine cradle made by grannys...they do alot of v6 and v-8 swaps for rx-7's....if i can find the link i will post it...best bet is to search through some older threads till you find the one about swapping in the v-8...now keep in mind you will also want a new rear....if at least new axles...302's are pretty cheap.....and can make good power....look at getting an aod...or a 5spd..but your trans wont mount to the v-8 if you so chose to do so....and even if it did....it would be toast within a few days......but either way i hope this helped a little bit....also chevy motors have a tendency of being dropped into rx-7's ...grannys also makes kits for lt-1's ls-1's and so fourth...the best of luck to you

banditkiller
09-05-2003, 04:45 PM
http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/ and there is that link...doubnt it will work....it was a lazy cut and paste....

dayna240sx
09-05-2003, 06:31 PM
Rebuilding a rotary engine is not that difficult. If a 20 year old female can do it, I think you should be able to give it a shot.

rotary911porsche
09-06-2003, 02:51 PM
Torque Central
http://www.torquecentral.com
has every answer you are looking for. Please use the search button before posting a question. They have two forums devoted to putting piston engines in any generation RX7. Any small block Ford or Chevy will fit. I believe a small block Mopar will also fit. Turbo buick V6s are another popular choice.
You definetely need an over drive tranny. 4.10 gears are hard on a V8 without over drive.
It is a very simple swap.

MDiGiamm
09-06-2003, 04:21 PM
Wouldn't almost any piston engine (especially a 5 liter V-8) throw the weight distribution off horribly???

rotary911porsche
09-06-2003, 05:36 PM
No. It does not "throw the weight distribution off horribly".

banditkiller
09-06-2003, 05:53 PM
with aluminum heads, relocation of the batter...and a few other things it is easy to keep the perfect 50/50 weight distribution..... :grinno:

GlassPack
09-06-2003, 11:16 PM
Hey would a turbocharged supra engine be any good. and would stuff like axles transmission, driveshaft etc have to changed according to the engine dropped in. Also am i just plain stupid to be looking at a Supra engine. What would be the best engine to drop in I woulud like to have it turbocharged. also what would a person have to relocate to get your 50/50 weight distrubition back
Thanks

Entreri33
09-07-2003, 02:30 PM
Why go to the expense and trouble of a supra engine???

Get a 3.8 series I out of a grand national or GNX you can make all the power of the supra and have the lower cost of an domestic engine.

There was that one supra7 in a magazine and they said it was a very hard install.

There are also kits to drop GM V8's into the car and the LS1 wieghs less than a straight 6 so the balance change would actually be less than the supra engine when finished.

But I doubt that the mazda rear end could handle the torque of any of those swaps so you would need to upgrade to a Vette or Supra unit and axles. Not to mention the Mazda tranny would have to go as well in favor of a LE60 auto or a T56 manual.

GlassPack
09-07-2003, 09:20 PM
Ok
Everything sounds good that everybody has said about an engine swap.
But can anybody tell me the Best engine there would be to drop in to a RX-7 that would fit into the bay, and what transmission would go with the engine as well as fit into the body of the RX-7, and what would i have to install as far as axles, driveshafts, etc. what kind of axle and driveshaft would i have to install ( i mean a specific kind)

thanks

Entreri33
09-08-2003, 04:47 AM
if you've got a FD then just do the 20b swap :)

rotary911porsche
09-08-2003, 10:02 AM
But can anybody tell me the Best engine there would be to drop in to a RX-7 that would fit into the bay, and what transmission would go with the engine as well as fit into the body of the RX-7, and what would i have to install as far as axles, driveshafts, etc. what kind of axle and driveshaft would i have to install ( i mean a specific kind)


First you need to define "best". Cheapest, easiest install, most torque, most horsepower etc.
The Buick Grand National V6 engine already mentioned makes serious power with a Turbo upgrade. Your car will be in the tens in the quarter. These engines and tranny's are harder to find and more expensive than a V8 but may be worth the time and cost.
Just about any small block domestic V8 will fit. Use the transmission that came with the V8 (make cetain it has overdrive). Use the front half of the V8 drive shaft and the back half of the Mazda shaft. It will need to welded and balanced by a competent shop. Granny's has ready made drive shafts if you would prefer. If your Mazda already has the limited slip, five lug rear end, it will handle almost anything you can throw at it. There are a few people at Torque Central who are needing to upgrade their rear ends and axles. Most of these cars are not daily drivers and are making serious power. They are also using drag slicks. A rear end upgrade is very doable.
Some people are even running the stock four lug rear ends and are not having any problems.
5.0 fords are cheap and easy but need a hole in the hood (cover with a scoop). Chevy 350's usually fit with no hole in the hood. They are more expensive than the Ford. Both of these swaps are easy and you will find lots of help. A Mopar swap is very rare and you will probably be on your own.
If you need to pass smog you will need an engine from the same year or newer. A good wiring diagram will help sort out the connections. the Mazda fuel pump will handle all but the most outrageous setups.
A highly tuned 13B with a big turbo and nitrous may still beat a V8. I have a friend with a daily driver (full interior, radio, A/C) '88 that runs low tens in the quarter. If you check the times most V8 powered cars are running you will find that few V8's can beat him. But, his engine is a little less reliable than the same power V8.
The Toyota engine would be very unique. It would probably be much more expensive than a domestic V8.
It's your car, you can do whatever you want.

ldstang50
09-11-2003, 12:41 PM
i know a j motor will fit, with some twisting, the morons in super street did it. but ca18 will fit too.

banditkiller
09-11-2003, 03:48 PM
ANY motor will fit with the right amount of money and time...its as simple as that

Entreri33
09-11-2003, 08:59 PM
Here is a question you need to ask yourself. Why put a piston engine in a rotory car? the spirit of the car would be lost with a heavy a$$ed piston engine. The 20b is a 300hp (mildly tweaked) non turbo engine and 600hp turbo with some serious mods and still retain the reliability. even a light wieght LS1 V8 it woudl throw off the balance of the car. And if nothing else the 20b has "kits" of sorts that are already in production and the "bugs of the swap have been worked out.

Any Unique engine swap will require the mechaninc (probably you in this case) to be creative and most likely fabricat unique pieces to make it work. If you are not capible of doing this then this project you are dreaming is not going to happen.

rotary911porsche
09-12-2003, 09:47 AM
Why put a piston engine in? It's your car. Do whatever you want.
The V8 does change the weight balance a little but it is very easy to get back to 50/50. The 20B would probably throw the weight off just as much. Have you priced a 20B? I did for my conversion and the total with wiring and engine management etc. was going to be over $8,000. A strong V8 is much cheaper.
There are several places to purchase a kit to adapt a Chevy or Ford small block. It really is a bolt in installation. If you choose to retain the fuel injection of the V8, the wiring will be the hardest part. But there are companies (Painless for one) that will mod your harness and label everything. It's not cheap ($300 to $400) but it is easy.
Changing to an automatic tranny makes the job even easier. Adapting the Mazda clutch master cylinder to work requires some creativity. But many conversions are stick.
Again, it's your car. You have to ask yourself; "Do I really care if someone else thinks I violated the soul of MY car?" If you do care, keep it rotary. If you don't than make the swap.
One note of caution. If you plan on racing SCCA an engine swap will change your category. It is a major mod and you will be racing against serious track only cars. But if the car is for fun it is not a problem.

GlassPack
09-12-2003, 09:12 PM
Hell, I hate to violate the soul of my car by this I mean doing a swap, but it is the extremely rare parts. They have to be ordered from a far enough away location, and again i dont even know for sure what im buying.

Anyway, I have another question. I did some talking around and different mechanics told me that the first problem is the oil pan. what can a person do with the oil pan on a piston engine.
and my second question is this, would a four cylinder Toyota 3SGTE engine be asking for trouble, and if this was a decent engine, what about a transmission for the engine, and what would a person need to find as far as a wiring harness goes and stuff like the Turbo sensor pack (If it didn't come with the motor). Turbo Pressure sensor, AFM, fuel pump resistor packs, ick. etc etc what all would a guy need.

rotary911porsche
09-13-2003, 10:01 AM
TheV8 swap has been done hundreds of times. Go to Torque Central and use the search button.
The easiest way to make certain you have everything you need for the swap is to purchase a complete running donor car. Strip the parts you need then part our the carcass. If you choose a Mustang or Camaro donor with a straight body you will certainly be able to sell it. Parting it out instead of selling it in one piece will most likely get you a profit. The sum of the parts is worth more than the whole. Your neighbors may not like a dead car sitting in your front yard. So selling it in one piece may be the best option.
If you do not have to pass smog the swap is much easier. A long block, a carb and a tranny and you are almost home. Be aware that the little things like brackets can add up.
There are several discussions on Torque Central over the oil pan issue. Search the V8 RX7 forum. It really is not a big deal.

GlassPack
09-13-2003, 09:54 PM
yeah i did check out torque central a couple of times, but i cant really find the answers to the questions i have, they tell me the same things people here do.

GlassPack
09-13-2003, 09:59 PM
Know what
I have decided that doing an engine swap would ruin the whole idea of my car and plus an engine swap is just more money for nothing really . If I decided to keep my rotary engine where can I learn enough about rotary engines to do all the work that has to be done to it when she decides to break down. Is there a place on the net that would give a guy an idea of a rotary engine teardown.

DensoSupra
09-15-2003, 04:57 PM
ford 302 v-8's drop in with an engine cradle made by grannys...they do alot of v6 and v-8 swaps for rx-7's

A waste and a disgrace of a good rx7...

GlassPack
09-25-2003, 08:47 PM
I was wondering as far as a good piston engine goes, would a four cylinder with the right bolt ons make any power. I was wondering about a Toyota 3S-GTE four-cylinder engine. Would they make a decent engine. Would they make any power whats so ever or just speed. Also can anybody tell me what the dimensions of an RX-7 engine bay are. What are the depth, width and length of the bay.

ldstang50
09-26-2003, 10:26 AM
3sgte!? thats a great motor. there are some bolt ons available, like headers cat back and intake manifolds. trd would have most of the parts
i don't know the exact specifications on the rotary motor but i have one in my room and will measure it out this weekend. email me back at dwyerlt@manpower.usmc.mi

Steel
09-26-2003, 11:21 AM
The 20b is a 300hp (mildly tweaked) non turbo engine and 600hp turbo with some serious mods .


WTF? dude, stock its a 280hp 280torque twin turbo. after you put some serious money into it (i.e. single turbo, fuel management, ect) will it be 600hp. Sure there are like, 2 20b's out there N/A, but they dont make 300 hp unless they have a p port or something ridiculous like that.

RX_speed
09-26-2003, 12:39 PM
WTF?? did any body notice he said "to get a HEAD GASKET replaced"

last time i checked my rotary didnt have a head gasket

Kaneto
09-26-2003, 02:41 PM
Know what
I have decided that doing an engine swap would ruin the whole idea of my car and plus an engine swap is just more money for nothing really . If I decided to keep my rotary engine where can I learn enough about rotary engines to do all the work that has to be done to it when she decides to break down. Is there a place on the net that would give a guy an idea of a rotary engine teardown.

There aren't really any websites that show a complete teardown of a rotary, but there are a number of resources out there.

Contact Atkins Rotary. www.atkinsrotary.com. They sell videos showing the completely teardown and rebuild of the rotary. These guys are also extremely helpful and can answer just about any question you can think of.

www.rx7club.com is pretty much the largest rotary web board on the new. There's also other sites that focus on more specific models and issues, but this is a great place to start.

GlassPack
09-26-2003, 11:58 PM
I would love to keep the rotary engine. But its the fact that nobody where I live works on them anymore. People have said that there is no reason i cant learn to repair the rotary myself, but i work full time now and its not just a matter of weeks to learn how to completely tear down and rebuild a rotary engine, when your me. Sure i could learn, but people that work on this stuff go to university for like 5 years for a reason. Also a person can be self taught, but that can take a quite awhile to learn.


Also one other thing, can the block of a toyota 3S-GTE take the pounding of a big turbocharger. I have a Trust T-88 34D Turbo, i was wondering what would have to be done to be able to use this turbo or could you just install it and be ok. ITs a massive turbo

banditkiller
09-27-2003, 06:14 PM
To densosupra...yes i agree it would be a waste...lol i dont dispute that at all. he asked for info i tried to help him....if ya want my honest opion he shouldnt own the rx-7 if he doesnt want to keep the rotary. Unfortunately i know the kind of problems hes tlakign about as far as the mechanical inabilities of others and the reason i sold mine was for the lack of time i had to rebuild my motor and the fact i needed a car. so i sold it drove my friends car for a few weeks and then bought another car at the time.....lol wtf am i posting bout it for. damn drugs

GlassPack
09-29-2003, 08:25 PM
I was wondering can anybody answer my question about the block of the 3S-GTE motor in my previous post. Also can anybody tell me what the dimensions of the engine bay are in the RX-7

Trust me I hate to give up the rotary, I might even keep it, but if I dont i would like to know what im putting in the car for a piston engine. That is why im asking these questions

CrzyMR2T
09-29-2003, 10:39 PM
3sgte's should be able to withstand up to 350hp stock. how about putting a skyline motor in it, the rb26dett. subaru wrx motor maybe? anyways, i would keep that rotary, rebuild it or something.

banditkiller
09-30-2003, 10:22 AM
Crzymr2t......a wrx motor?.....come on....do you have any idea what kind of conversion that would take?.......ppl and half brained ideas....

GlassPack
09-30-2003, 08:47 PM
If the 3s gte motor was bored out and fitted with forged pistons that could take the pounding of a T-88 turbo. Would the block still be able to take it as well. IF not where could a person find a block that would fit the 3sgte motor and be a strong block. Like would the block be able to take up to a max 26 PSI or 1.8 bar of boost.

Soyo
10-09-2003, 10:36 PM
you could get a KA24DE from a 91-98 240sx and rebuild it and have better displacement and maybe even a little better horsepower after the rebuild, and plenty of people can work on those for ya, plus you can get the engine for like 700 bucks, rebuild for like 1500

ls1mazda93rx7
12-11-2004, 04:24 AM
the stock 93 rear with 3:90 gears will withstand up to 500lbs of v8 torque -go to hinsonsupercars.com!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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