The Enzo has some competition...

In a recent Motor Trend test of the Mosler MT900S, I found something very strange. The Mosler actually comes very close to the Enzo in all of the accleration tests. Now I ask you, if you could get the performance of a Ferrari Enzo for a quater of the price, not to mention much more fuel efficient, then what's all the hype about the Enzo for? (Please don't say 'Cause it's a Ferrari'). I mean, the MT900S is essentially a very, very lightweight mid-engine Corvette Z06 with an optional sequential manual transmission.

The Backup:

(Motor Trend, 9/03)

Mosler MT900S,

Price as tested: $160,000
Engine: 345.7 ci (5665 cc) OHV V8 2 valves/cylinder
Max Power: 435 HP @ 6000 RPM
Max Torque: 400 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM
0-60 mph: 3.5 secs
1/4 Mile: 11.54 secs @ 122.91 mph
Curb Weight: 2330 lbs
EPA mpg: 17 city/ 27 hwy

(Car & Driver, 7/03)

Ferrari Enzo

Price as tested: $659,430
Engine: 366 ci (5999 cc) DOHC V12 4 valves/cylinder
Max Power: 650 HP @ 7800 RPM
Max Torque: 485 lb-ft @ 5500 RPM
0-60 mph: 3.3 secs
1/4 Mile: 11.2 secs @ 136 mph
Curb Weight: 3262 lbs
EPA mpg: 8 city/ 12 hwy

If the only thing I cared about was straight-line acceleration and nothing else then I would pause for a second and consider if I should buy the Mosler... then I would slap my face around and wonder what the hell I was thinking to even consider doing such a thing.

OHV V8... pah! :disappoin

I love threads like this. Why buy a Ferrari when this car that's 10 times cheaper hits 60 in .123112423784236987123687234298340578172936 seconds less? I mean thats all there is to race cars. duhhhhh. All that turning and stuff they do is just another way to slow down so they can race to 60 again. duhhh

Ouch..........................

I love threads like this. Why buy a Ferrari when this car that's 10 times cheaper hits 60 in .123112423784236987123687234298340578172936 seconds less? I mean thats all there is to race cars. duhhhhh. All that turning and stuff they do is just another way to slow down so they can race to 60 again. duhhh
:lol2: My......aren't we being sarcastic today :rofl: The Mosler looks like a a full scale R/C car. Doesn't look like it would do well in a crash test.

1 rather the car sounds like a real super car not a rumble from a LS6 motor that if i want to hear i go to a strip. 2 rather have teh evil braking of teh enzo 3 Ezno happens to be a car that will gain value while i don't think the Mosler will 4 Teh Enzo would murder it on a road corse 5 Teh Enzo looks better. I think thats enough plus if you wanted faster 0-60 from teh Enzo you could have changed teh gearing.

6. The Enzo has much better build quality for sure.

and don't forget the resale value of the Enzo :naughty:

Like you'd want to sell it... :screwy:

Like you'd want to sell it... :screwy:
I was speaking in general terms. I would never sell it, unless I had to. And if you had to, at least you konw you get more than what you paid for it.

and don't forget the resale value of the Enzo :naughty:

If the F40 and F50 are any indication, you will lose money on selling an Enzo unless you do it during this time of ultra hype. Once the hype dies down, the price will.

I love threads like this. Why buy a Ferrari when this car that's 10 times cheaper hits 60 in .123112423784236987123687234298340578172936 seconds less? I mean thats all there is to race cars. duhhhhh. All that turning and stuff they do is just another way to slow down so they can race to 60 again. duhhh

The MT900 does well in the turns as well. It was 1 second behind a custom tuned twin turbo 996 on a road course. Yes, a road course, as in turns. The 996 is a great road racing car, so that means the Mosler is not just fast in straight line.

The Enzo is a more or less a street legal race car. Trying to trash the MT900 for being a race car for the streets, means the Enzo should be knocked down for just being a race car for the street.

I am fan of the Enzo, but there are high quality cars that cost less and give great performance. The Enzo does have better fit and finish then an MT900, but you pay for that. There is nothing wrong with being impressed by cars that can go almost as fast through the turns and/or down the straights for a lot less money. Both the Enzo and MT900 deserve respect.

If the only thing I cared about was straight-line acceleration and nothing else then I would pause for a second and consider if I should buy the Mosler... then I would slap my face around and wonder what the hell I was thinking to even consider doing such a thing.

OHV V8... pah! :disappoin

The Mosler is fast in the turns as well.

Gee, what was that thing powering a the Ferrari F40, oh yeah, it was OHV V8. The F40 was one of the last cars to get Enzo's personal approval.

1 rather the car sounds like a real super car not a rumble from a LS6 motor that if i want to hear i go to a strip. 2 rather have teh evil braking of teh enzo 3 Ezno happens to be a car that will gain value while i don't think the Mosler will 4 Teh Enzo would murder it on a road corse 5 Teh Enzo looks better. I think thats enough plus if you wanted faster 0-60 from teh Enzo you could have changed teh gearing.

I hope R&T or C&D do get an Enzo, MT900, S7, and other super cars together for a race at a road course like Laguna Seca. The Enzo will likely be faster, but not by much.

As far as sound, the Enzo sound is much better then the F355, but to say it is better then LS6, no, it is just different.

Looks, yes the Enzo does look better.

Brimbo brakes are found on both the MT900 and the Enzo.

Changing the gears on the Enzo, then you could change the gears on the MT900.

If the MT900 would have had a hire retail price, then the car may have been designed to go faster. The Enzo was designed as the money no object car and th MT900 was designed as ultra fast car for decent price (by exotic car standards).

I'm pretty sure the F40's V8 was DOHC. It most definately was not OHV :nono:


Personally I dislike OHV engines but that's just me. I prefer high-tech, high-rpm, screaming DOHC and that is the main reason why I don't like this car. There's also build quality, which may or may not be good in this case but it is normal for kit cars like these to have poor build quality.


IMO there is no way someone would choose to buy an MT900 over an Enzo.

The only thing I would say about this comparison is that MT is known for their crazy tests.

Someone else recently had a mt900 in some sort of test and it was fast, but not quite up to motortrend level.

On the other side they have never completely tested and Enzo, but their limited data and estimates are:

0-60 3.15s (tested)
0-100 6.6s
1/4 mile 10.8s

The Mosler is close and there are probably a lot of other cars that do the same thing as the Mosler in performance compared to cost.

the mosler mt900s' top speed is 200+

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/sucks9.gif
The next time you go shopping for a family car are you gonna get the car thats safe and reliable or the one the gets to 60 .2 seconds faster?

The Mosler MT 900 shouldn't be compared with the Enzo. The Mosler is ugly and has an LS6, same engine in a Vette! The Enzo has a V12 thats based on a Formula 1 car!

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/sucks9.gif
The next time you go shopping for a family car are you gonna get the car thats safe and reliable or the one the gets to 60 .2 seconds faster?

Eh?

The Mosler MT 900 shouldn't be compared with the Enzo. The Mosler is ugly and has an LS6, same engine in a Vette! The Enzo has a V12 thats based on a Formula 1 car!
That's the F50...

When I said "Based on an F1 engine", I ment it uses a lot of the technology developed in F1.

the Enzo has a V12 with 660 hp i think and that modified Corvette ain't passing that Enzo. :grinno:

All right, lets get some things straight. First, yes the mosler is a kit car, but one produced by a highly respectable team of engineers. Second, yes the enzo is an incredible car that deserves the respect that is gets.

That said, the MT900S or Photon (especially the latter) is the better car if you want to win at the track. Even if the straight line performance of the Enzo is 0-60 in 3.15 secs, the Photon was 3.1 secs in a test (in Motor Trend) where an untested rear lip was used and after the test was complete, it was discovered that some arching wires may have taken away as much as 50-100 horsepower (I e-mailed Mosler and got this from them). Also, the Photon has 435 horsepower. Send that sucker over to Lingenfelter and have them boost it close to the Enzo with 650 and the Enzo will never have a prayer of keeping up.

Furthermore, the MT900 does have incredible cornering, with very similar skidpad results as the Enzo and the mere fact that it was designed as a race car originally (like the Saleen S7).

Bottom line is you buy the Enzo for exclusivity and as a sign of wealth. You buy the MT900 if you want to shave off seconds.

In a recent Motor Trend test of the Mosler MT900S, I found something very strange. The Mosler actually comes very close to the Enzo in all of the accleration tests. Now I ask you, if you could get the performance of a Ferrari Enzo for a quater of the price, not to mention much more fuel efficient, then what's all the hype about the Enzo for? (Please don't say 'Cause it's a Ferrari'). I mean, the MT900S is essentially a very, very lightweight mid-engine Corvette Z06 with an optional sequential manual transmission.

The Backup:

(Motor Trend, 9/03)

Mosler MT900S,

Price as tested: $160,000
Engine: 345.7 ci (5665 cc) OHV V8 2 valves/cylinder
Max Power: 435 HP @ 6000 RPM
Max Torque: 400 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM
0-60 mph: 3.5 secs
1/4 Mile: 11.54 secs @ 122.91 mph
Curb Weight: 2330 lbs
EPA mpg: 17 city/ 27 hwy

(Car & Driver, 7/03)

Ferrari Enzo

Price as tested: $659,430
Engine: 366 ci (5999 cc) DOHC V12 4 valves/cylinder
Max Power: 650 HP @ 7800 RPM
Max Torque: 485 lb-ft @ 5500 RPM
0-60 mph: 3.3 secs
1/4 Mile: 11.2 secs @ 136 mph
Curb Weight: 3262 lbs
EPA mpg: 8 city/ 12 hwy
black

ferrari has more horses, and a little more giddi up

I'll say it's a Ferrari and it has a more better engine which is the V12. :naughty:

Alright, sure, the Ferrari is overall better, but what I was saying is competition, like Moslerporschefreak said, you buy the Enzo for it's "schnazzyness" but I said competition, and on a track, I think it would be pretty close. And Enzo1187, there have been much worse threads than this in the past, think about it. Take this all as you will, I didn't mean for a whole argument to come up. Just wanted to comment on a mag article I read.

Btw, I would still go for the Mosler. You can get one, then get a couple o' V12 Mercedes with the leftover $$$, and going 0-60 mph in 3.5 seconds is no matter how you look at it quick.

unless you modify a Mosler and i mean a lot of performance modifications to compare with the Enzo. :grinyes:

Sure it would need some modification. Like I said with sending it to Lingenfelter, it would cost about $40,000 to get it up to 650 hp (and that's with a wide band of high hp).

A stock comparison between the two is no competition, the ferrari wins eight days a week. Still, that's a $670k car vs. a $160k or $210k car. Considering a $40,000 dollar upgrade will bring it up to snuff it's not a bad deal for 1/3 the price.

Again, the overall craftsmanship of the Enzo is better, but since these cars should only be used for the track (like you want to go 35 in one of these)the only thing that matters is the brute performance, not refined interior.

With the mods, I would take the Mosler.

by the way, this is a great thread, interesting discussion

V12>v8

uh if you buy a mosler for 190 and enzo for 680 you do the math thats alot extra to spend to make it rape any car come on guys. if you could afford it thats 490 to play with that would make a festiva A$$ rapin fast

Yeah, why choose the Enzo when you could instead have 4 incredible cars (this includes the Mosler) one of which is faster than the Enzo anyways. Do the Math

well....with the mt900 you get...a subaru steering wheel, porsche gearbox, corvette engine, semi-gaudy styling, non to prolific interior aesthetics and a really lame decal on the spoiler. (i think that's where it was placed when i read the magazine.)

with the enzo you get....ferrari engine, ferrari gearbox, beautiful interior design, a badass steering wheel, all the bells and whistles basically.

however...if one can afford an Enzo, then why not make room in the garage for its domestic counterpart and take it through the gears every other weekend?

and seriously....who is competitively racing their enzo ferrari? I'm pretty sure that person would have to be bastardly, stinking filthy rich, because i'm almost certain that one screw up on the track and insurance is looking the other direction.

at least with the mosler the worst your out is around 160k.

Yeah, I must say that since I posted last, I have turned to an Enzo convert. I still love the Enzo, even more because of the extreme quality with which it is made. But with price accounted for, the Mosler is still the better car.

You're right though, most people wont drive their enzo like they should for very obvious reasons. Still, I think if I had an Enzo, I would drive the piss out of it. Kind of like its better to have loved and lost...

true. i can only imagine how much fucking trouble i would get into with an enzo ferrari. I would love to say i'd drive the piss out of it, but i'm no michael shumacher and it would probably take me awhile to acclimate to the ridiculously crazy acceleration.

well..i can say the same about a mosler mt900, except i can say for almost certain noone would know what the hell it was.

True that (about both cars). Still, if you owned and enzo or mosler I'm sure youd take the time to get acustomed to it. (Some tracks should rent hotel rooms). And if you can afford one, you can also afford to miss work (if you even do work)

Mosler's and Saleen's look like they were built in somebody's back yard. The Enzo is a work of art and a real performance car. I don't care what the performance figures are.

I would disagree. The Saleen is a very well designed car with a nice interior too. The exterior styling whether you like it or not is not something that could be made on the fly (it actually cost Saleen 100,000 to have it made in Britain). As for the Mosler, yes corners were cut. And it makes no secret of it. THE MOSLER IS A BARE BONES TRACK CAR. You can take it or leave it. I t really boils down to what matters.

But you are right in that the Enzo is the better car (though this has been established). It is a true le mans or F1 for the road. The catch is that it drains you 400% more than the Mosler, and 50% more than the Saleen.

END of discussion: Mosler is the best for the money. Enzo is the best performance and quality , it just costs more.

Could someone please tell me the name of the dealer you can go to to buy a Mosler? :screwy:

Yeah, the licensed dealer is called Corvette Mike in Florida, fairly close to Mosler's HQ