all these 4 cylinder cars. Integras, Civics, Celicas, Preludes, Eclipse...

is there anything these things have over real sports cars?

300zx, Supra, RX-7, 3000GT?

Other then pure lack of $$$ to buy/insure/mod the better car is there any reason to get the 4 bangers?

Oh and as far as the 2 seater sports car hatchback (non 2+2 thing) do they have room behind the seats? ive heard of people getting 4 people fairly comfortablely (room wise) sitting on the floor behind the 2 original seats...but all the ones i have seen have some kind of obstructure derectly behind the seats..

reason im into race bikes and now im getting my first car (here in ma a permit is like a liscense for bikes so you can drive one from 16 whereas a car you gotta be 16

if you got any other general info on helping me buy my first car to get into the "scene" pleast feel free to contact me or post it

Thanks.

Besides the money . . . there really is NO reason to buy a 4cyl over an actual sports car.

Unless you actually happened to cbe concerned with fuel economy . . . which basically comes down to money . . .

Money is the only reason as far as I'm concerned.

That's a lie though. There's plenty more to it . . . there's the passion involved in buying a car and building it to your taste . . . making your own sports car out of something other than a true sports car.

Then again, if you had the right amount of money you could buy a true sports car, and build it up quite a bit . . . with the same passion involved in building a less expensive car . . .

So it still comes down to money . . . unless someone disagrees with me (??)

If you can afford the car and the insurance there's really no reason to get a non-sports car 4 banger. I say non-sports car because the EVO VIIx, STi WRX and S15 when they come to North America will be pretty kick ass! :D

Don't forget the Elise and Super 7's are 4 bangers and they kick some ass too. :D

as i said i dont know alot about sports cars
but im not exactly mr. moneybags saving all i can i got about 11,000 cash

another thing i read is a bigger engine responds better to moding then a smaller one
you get more added HP for each mod on a 6 cylinder then a 4...
at least thats what i read..

I like the RX-7 the best and its nearly the cheapest. how much of a reliablility issue is there to this vehicle?

and im still really hoping for a response to the hatchback back space thing
cause this would also be my daily commuter so i would like to able to fit some people and have a comfotable ride if possible.
thats why cars such as the Acura CL 3.0 and Maxima SE appeal to me cause there argued to be at least fast enough to make a appearence on the tracks and stuff which is fin for me if its a good commuter and i can fit 4-5 people...problem comes down to money..id love a real sports car but i need to make sure this has at least a hunt of practicality in it.
i cant buy a 2 seater with no space (max 2 people) that costs a ton on insurance sucks on gas and has reliability issues (rx-7) on top of it

perfect car obviously would be something like a skyline or BMW M3
one of those 5 seating people luxury cars (not sure bout skyline but thats the impression i get from pictures that it has ample room as well)
and hauls ass on top of it
but at like 18,000 for a god damn 95'! ill get 2...

Originally posted by Mylacc

another thing i read is a bigger engine responds better to moding then a smaller one
you get more added HP for each mod on a 6 cylinder then a 4...
at least thats what i read..

I like the RX-7 the best and its nearly the cheapest. how much of a reliablility issue is there to this vehicle?


i would have to say that most 6 cylinder cars have bigger displacement (eg CC rating) thats why each mod gives more horsepower. Mitsubishi Evolutions are 4 cylinder and are pretty damn fast. So are Subaru Impreza WRX STi. I am not in the USA, so i wouldn't konw what you get there. Turbo makes a HUGE difference!

Mazda RX-7's are Rotary's. In my opinion they are costly to maintain with the tips of the rotary's gettting blunt (from what i heard, correct me if i am wrong).

I'll mention another I4 sports car: the Honda S2000. (Yes, I know the torque numbers... :rolleyes: ) ;)

Oh, and my wife says when she was a kid, her mom had a 1st gen RX-7, and she always had to lay down in the back. :hehehe:

For the RX-7, I'd suggest asking some questions over in the RX-7 forum. Rotary engines are clearly a very different animal than piston engines. There is a lot of (mis)information about care, maintenance and repair for these cars, and I'd really want to talk to a lot of RX-7 owners before buying one...

Originally posted by Mylacc
all these 4 cylinder cars. Integras, Civics, Celicas, Preludes, Eclipse...

is there anything these things have over real sports cars?

300zx, Supra, RX-7, 3000GT?

Other then pure lack of $$$ to buy/insure/mod the better car is there any reason to get the 4 bangers?

Oh and as far as the 2 seater sports car hatchback (non 2+2 thing) do they have room behind the seats? ive heard of people getting 4 people fairly comfortablely (room wise) sitting on the floor behind the 2 original seats...but all the ones i have seen have some kind of obstructure derectly behind the seats..

reason im into race bikes and now im getting my first car (here in ma a permit is like a liscense for bikes so you can drive one from 16 whereas a car you gotta be 16

if you got any other general info on helping me buy my first car to get into the "scene" pleast feel free to contact me or post it

Thanks.

No particular reasons but just personal taste I think. I didn't like sitting in the back of a Supra. I had to extend my leg across the seat to fit in. Anyways RX-7 has some room behind the seats but I wouldn't say it's comfortable.

Originally posted by i_rebel
Besides the money . . . there really is NO reason to buy a 4cyl over an actual sports car.

Unless you actually happened to cbe concerned with fuel economy . . . which basically comes down to money . . .

Money is the only reason as far as I'm concerned.

That's a lie though. There's plenty more to it . . . there's the passion involved in buying a car and building it to your taste . . . making your own sports car out of something other than a true sports car.

Then again, if you had the right amount of money you could buy a true sports car, and build it up quite a bit . . . with the same passion involved in building a less expensive car . . .

So it still comes down to money . . . unless someone disagrees with me (??)

Having a 4 cylinder doesn't mean better fuel economy. That has a lot more to do with gearing.

Z06 405hp and V8 19 / 28
S2000 240hp and I4 - 20/ 26

Originally posted by G-Forces
If you can afford the car and the insurance there's really no reason to get a non-sports car 4 banger. I say non-sports car because the EVO VIIx, STi WRX and S15 when they come to North America will be pretty kick ass! :D

Don't forget the Elise and Super 7's are 4 bangers and they kick some ass too. :D

Evo7 and STi will cost an arm and leg 35K+ USD pricing. S15 isn't coming at all.

Originally posted by Mylacc
as i said i dont know alot about sports cars
but im not exactly mr. moneybags saving all i can i got about 11,000 cash

another thing i read is a bigger engine responds better to moding then a smaller one
you get more added HP for each mod on a 6 cylinder then a 4...
at least thats what i read..

I like the RX-7 the best and its nearly the cheapest. how much of a reliablility issue is there to this vehicle?

and im still really hoping for a response to the hatchback back space thing
cause this would also be my daily commuter so i would like to able to fit some people and have a comfotable ride if possible.
thats why cars such as the Acura CL 3.0 and Maxima SE appeal to me cause there argued to be at least fast enough to make a appearence on the tracks and stuff which is fin for me if its a good commuter and i can fit 4-5 people...problem comes down to money..id love a real sports car but i need to make sure this has at least a hunt of practicality in it.
i cant buy a 2 seater with no space (max 2 people) that costs a ton on insurance sucks on gas and has reliability issues (rx-7) on top of it

perfect car obviously would be something like a skyline or BMW M3
one of those 5 seating people luxury cars (not sure bout skyline but thats the impression i get from pictures that it has ample room as well)
and hauls ass on top of it
but at like 18,000 for a god damn 95'! ill get 2...

You have more cubic inch to work that's why there is more gain.

RX-7 is the best if you can find one without problem. I have seen far too many RX-7 owner that dump more money into repair than the original purchase price.

Originally posted by jay@af
I'll mention another I4 sports car: the Honda S2000. (Yes, I know the torque numbers... :rolleyes: ) ;)

Oh, and my wife says when she was a kid, her mom had a 1st gen RX-7, and she always had to lay down in the back. :hehehe:

For the RX-7, I'd suggest asking some questions over in the RX-7 forum. Rotary engines are clearly a very different animal than piston engines. There is a lot of (mis)information about care, maintenance and repair for these cars, and I'd really want to talk to a lot of RX-7 owners before buying one...

Rotary are clever designs marvels. However they eat gas like crazy. The turbo on RX-7 also give off far too much heat for the car to take over long period of time.

everything is about money....

Originally posted by F20C


Evo7 and STi will cost an arm and leg 35K+ USD pricing. S15 isn't coming at all.
Well I guess you're the be all and end all of manufacture knowledge. Which magazine did you read that in. I like how you act as the authority on all things automotive. You have not idea what Nissan might do. They probably have a couple S15's in NA right now at the Nissan proving grounds. You also know Motorex will probably end up importing the S15 sometime in the future.

As for the STi and EVO being an arm and a leg there was never a price point to his question. He never considered a 4 banger could be a sports car. I just pointed out that it could.

Be careful with your guru attitude and not everything you read in magazines is true.

Originally posted by F20C


You have more cubic inch to work that's why there is more gain.

RX-7 is the best if you can find one without problem. I have seen far too many RX-7 owner that dump more money into repair than the original purchase price.

If the larger V8 motors were built to the tolerance that some of the performance 4 cylinders were built to they would be much more expensive. When you tune a larger motor like older mustang motors you're basically improving the effiencey. The SR20DE and B16, etc all are tuned to very tight tolerances so you get less gains with n/a bolt-ons.

Most people don't now how to take care of the rotory in the RX-7. The non-turbo rotorys were practically indestructible. However when you start boosting the apex seals are very easy to blow. In fact one lean condition and you'll need a rebuild. Mazda should have spent more time on cooling. That's why any good tuner will always recommend cooling upgrades as the firsts mods you do.

Originally posted by F20C


Rotary are clever designs marvels. However they eat gas like crazy. The turbo on RX-7 also give off far too much heat for the car to take over long period of time.
Mazdas new rotory design with the side port (i think it is) design will be more fuel efficent and make more power. In fact it won't need a turbo to get the same output as the old twin turbo'd 13B.

Anyway sorry for getting off topic.

well i know in general cylinders doesnt necessarilly represend output
a god damn bulldozer is only a 4cylinder

each cylinder are bigger then your engine but whatever...

in general though dont more cylinder represent a smoother ride and a better acceleration (Getting more things to move at once fomr a dead stop...) also in some cases better gas milage depedning on weight to cylinder ratio....getting a 6 can pull the car easier then a 4 therefore using less fuel...not as true with bigger sets no cars NEED 8 or higher so thats gonna lower gas economy

also which setup do you all perfer and why? advantages? disadvantages?
V, VR, I, Opposing? something else?

Originally posted by G-Forces

Well I guess you're the be all and end all of manufacture knowledge. Which magazine did you read that in. I like how you act as the authority on all things automotive. You have not idea what Nissan might do. They probably have a couple S15's in NA right now at the Nissan proving grounds. You also know Motorex will probably end up importing the S15 sometime in the future.

As for the STi and EVO being an arm and a leg there was never a price point to his question. He never considered a 4 banger could be a sports car. I just pointed out that it could.

Be careful with your guru attitude and not everything you read in magazines is true.

I don't know everything there is and I didn't claim to know everything there is. However I speak for what I know now. Just tell me where and when did Nissan said they were brining out S15 to North America? If you have the facts I would like to see. Do you have proof of S15 exsisting in North America? If you don't then we can't use that as evidence either. Nobody can predict the future that's why we are talking present time. FreshAlloy will know when it's coming etc.

By the way I moderate on a rumors board for a well known honda site. However we discuss more than just Honda in that board. All the rumors get posted it and with a source of where it came from.

He did say he had $11000 to spend.

Aren't you the same guy that said production ready cars is not a production model? :sun: When it is label production ready that means it will be the same car consumers get. If not manufacture will still keep the pre-production tag.

Originally posted by G-Forces


If the larger V8 motors were built to the tolerance that some of the performance 4 cylinders were built to they would be much more expensive. When you tune a larger motor like older mustang motors you're basically improving the effiencey. The SR20DE and B16, etc all are tuned to very tight tolerances so you get less gains with n/a bolt-ons.

Most people don't now how to take care of the rotory in the RX-7. The non-turbo rotorys were practically indestructible. However when you start boosting the apex seals are very easy to blow. In fact one lean condition and you'll need a rebuild. Mazda should have spent more time on cooling. That's why any good tuner will always recommend cooling upgrades as the firsts mods you do.

That's why american V8 is pushrod so the production cost doesn't shoot through the roof. Same reason why intake upgrade on C5 can gain 40hp in some cases. Japanese are known for maxing out on cubic inches. Whereas American just add more cubic inches. They come from different starting points. In Japan cars pay insurance based on the sized of the motor.

Rotory are different breed from Piston engines.

Originally posted by G-Forces

Mazdas new rotory design with the side port (i think it is) design will be more fuel efficent and make more power. In fact it won't need a turbo to get the same output as the old twin turbo'd 13B.

Anyway sorry for getting off topic.

New engine is lighter than previous model. It is more efficient as well along with better emission control.

But you are half right on outputs. Same output for hp but not torque.

Let's see the engine powering RX-8 concept had a 10000 rpm redline. 250hp at 8500 rpm. 150 lb torque at 7500 rpm.

Looks awfully familiar to F20C to me.

Originally posted by Mylacc
well i know in general cylinders doesnt necessarilly represend output
a god damn bulldozer is only a 4cylinder

each cylinder are bigger then your engine but whatever...

in general though dont more cylinder represent a smoother ride and a better acceleration (Getting more things to move at once fomr a dead stop...) also in some cases better gas milage depedning on weight to cylinder ratio....getting a 6 can pull the car easier then a 4 therefore using less fuel...not as true with bigger sets no cars NEED 8 or higher so thats gonna lower gas economy

also which setup do you all perfer and why? advantages? disadvantages?
V, VR, I, Opposing? something else?

There is a lot more to engine smoothness than just cylinders. Inline 6 is the smoothest design along with V12.

Originally posted by F20C
Nobody can predict the future that's why we are talking present time. FreshAlloy will know when it's coming etc.
Right so saying it will never come is just as bad as saying it will. ;) Up until a couple years ago noone thought you'd be able to by a Skyline in N.A. either, but Motorex sells them legally for street use. :)


He did say he had $11000 to spend.

I know I missed that when I posted my comment about that. Oops. :p


Aren't you the same guy that said production ready cars is not a production model? :sun: When it is label production ready that means it will be the same car consumers get. If not manufacture will still keep the pre-production tag.
Nope the first car that rolls off the production line is the production model. Production ready cars while sill very close mock-ups of production cars are not quite the same. If it can't be sold on a lot, which a production ready car cannot, it's not a production car. It's pretty damn close, but not exact. Anyway this discussion shouldn't go any further on this thread. E-mail me if you want to discuss this further. :D

Originally posted by F20C


There is a lot more to engine smoothness than just cylinders. Inline 6 is the smoothest design along with V12.
Inherently the I6 is better balanced so by its nature so its a smooth running engine. However a lot of harshness can be taken out of a V6 with properly desinged balance shafts. Hense the Maxima V6 has been on Wards top ten motors every year. They praise it's smoothness and refinement.

There is nothing more I love than car discussion. It's really hard to see people's emtion with words that's why it get taken the other way at times. :devil:

I'll PM you to chat more about it.

Oh, most of these smaller 4cyl cars have higher saftey ratings. But I guess if you are going fast you have a better chance of dying anyway.

99% of the people who die in car accidents its because lack of seatbelt and they flew through the windshield and such

people wering there seatbelts have been known to get into a head on with a tractor trailer while driving a chevy neon and take only minor injuries

look up accidents even on shitty cars the interior part of the caqr is almost always in tact for the most part

thats why crumple zones were invented..

What the hell is a "chevy neon?" Is that like a Ford Camaro? What is more reasssuring? A car with a pathetic crash test rating or a car with a perfect rating. BTW, its the peoples fault for not wearing their seatbelts. Hell with some cars it doesn't even matter if you wear a seatbelt. I'll give you an example below.

Seatbelts can't always save your life if your vehicle is unsafe.

http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/photos/0110_2_34.jpg

chevy cavalier

ford neon whatever, basically what im saying is in most accidents just wearing a seatbelt will save your ass

You are a GODDAMN genius:silly: , is that why they invented seatbelts? I'm pretty sure you missed my point on both counts. Think deep and hard, maybee if you're lucky you can see what I was trying to say. BTW, if you didn't know that first sentence was sarcasm, I thought I'd help you out.

yah i know the statement im trying to say is that even though a car is a bit faster as long as you use your head its not gonna be the end of yah

doesnt matter now im going to look at a Black/Black 96' Acura TL 3.2 Premium, with 130,000 miles in unbeliavable condition, im gonna go look at it take it to a garage and since its got a clean carfax report and everything and he wants a meager 7,500$ for whatever reason is beyond me, im gonna take it

I'd go for it. Sorry, I wasn't trying to be a dick. It just pisses me off when people {not saying you did} badmouth cars like my Civic. Like this thread, if you don't want a certain car why are you asking people why you should buy it or not? I'll just drop it. Anyway, that car would be a pretty good car for you to get. I know for a fact Honda/Acura's last forever.

heh your talking to the wrong person
i dont hate in fact due to the hate on civics and such i made this statement myself about a week ago

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13356&highlight=rice

they get good gas mileage ( i skipped to the last page of posts )

Safety rating has more to do with metal strength than speed you drive the car.

yeah doesnt get safer or more dangerous with motor size.....you might just have more weight which gives you more force