what are some things that would help identify a mid to late 70's 400?

The best thing to do would be to look at casting numbers. Most of the Trans Am 400's have 6x or h heads.
Otherwise most Pontiac engines look the same from 350-455, it's all in the numbers.
Sorry man.
Chris

yah i know about the 6X heads but i bet some 350's had them too

I was just letting you know that it was the most common head on the 400. I mean if you want I can list every head Pontiac made. Casting numbers etc....
At least I didn't tell you to look for Pontiac blue paint :rolleyes:
Vague questions get vague answers. I was just trying to help out a little.
Sorry.
Chris

the engine size is cast into block on driver's side near the front freeze plug. it will say 350/400/455.

I thought you already had a 400cu block?

yah well that deal fell though i was very close to gettin the 400 before

but i dont have one yet i just want to make sure im gettin a 400 before i buy it

is it by the freeze plug on all years of engines?

i think it is on all years

alright well thats excellent then

are u looking for a 400??? i have one for sale needs alot of work done to it but its cheep as well say 100 bucks

what work needs to be done cause im lookin for an engine to build up for drag n such

and where are you located?

why would u want a 400 block anyway? pontiac's 400 and 455 engines were very poorly built and the only engine from pontiac i would consider is a 350 (or possibly a 301), everything else go chevy, its cheaper to build and lasts a lot longer, just put pontiac stickers on the valve covers when your done, no one will know

I will know what it is an its a bitch to change over from pontiac to a chevy and the 400 will have more torque

and they arnt that poorly built

i would also rather have something thats not so common so a 400 you dont really see as much as a small block chev

i build engines at a performance shop and pontiac 400's are 455 are shit, they blow all the time and it is easy to convert a firebird to a chevy engine because they are the same frame and body as a camaro all u need to change is the motor mounts if u want a rare engine with lots of torgue get a 427 big block chevy
i have myself built chevy 350's and right now im running a pontiac 350 and let me tell you a chevy engine cost about half as much to build as a pontiac and u get way more options

yah thats nice i want a pontiac 400 and if it blow up o well shit happens

and if i went into rarer stuff i would build a 421 or 389 pontiac

all pontiacs are the same design if the 400, 455 are no good as you claim then the 350 would be no better. pontiacs if built properly last forever. you do not have to rev them to make power they are all torque. to build a small block chevy to keep up with a 400 or a 455 you have to loose drivability. and big block chevys cost even more to build than pontiacs. 350 pontiac is a pointless engine you do not get the torque of the larger motors and they do not turn the rpms of a small block chevy, they are not good for performance.

i agree pontiacs are built for torque, a 350 isnt the strongest engine but it has a smaller displacement and takes punnishment better then the big blocks, big block pontiacs have a poor design and cant take any punnishment such as street racing like a chevy can, my old chevy 350 i beat the hell out of it and man, it ran like the day i built it, my pontiac when i had it on the road, i ran it a few times in street races and it was no where near the power as a chevy 350, it had more torque which is what i liked but it also broke down a lot from punnishment, it couldnt take the abuse like a chevy could, the big blocks are even worse,
also
you cant compare a 350 chevy to a big block pontiac, there two different engine classes, of course you going to have to build a 350 for race if u want to keep up with a big block, and 454 are cheaper to build then 455' s know cause i build them
spent $5500 on my pontiac and am ruinning about 350-375 Hp
with that $5500 i could have build a 4 bolt main chevy 350 and had 400+ easly with a ton of options

5500 usd or canadian

because for 5500 canadian my 400 could have over 400hp + nos

and for 5500 american i would have even more

but yes the chevy would have more options in the ways of blowers and such

$5500 canadian

you must have gotten some bad parts then because that is enough money for me to build my entire engine and put a new rear end and gears on

it is easy to convert a firebird to a chevy engine because they are the same frame and body as a camaro all u need to change is the motor mounts
How 'bout the tranny? The bolt patterns are different you know.

r u sure, positive?
tranny's are all the same a turbo 400/350 is the same tranny used in pontiacs and chevy's

why do u think there's only 1 type of shift kit u can buy?
a turbo 350/400 kit
there all the same for chevy and pontiac

Same internals however Chevys use a different bolt pattern than B-O-P. So the case or bell housing has to be changed.

not even, just tap and drill out new holes, takes like 20 minutes, there both 90 degree mounted, just tap and drill sum new holes thats all

yah the trannys have the same internals and thats it they have completely different housings

you need a new tranny to go with a chevy

even if you drill and tap the pontiac T-350 it wont line up with the chev

:iagree:Also, a 350 Pontiac and a 400 Pontiac are essentially they same except for bore 3.875 in vs. 4.12in. What problems did you have with it?

yah the trannys have the same internals and thats it they have completely different housings

you need a new tranny to go with a chevy

even if you drill and tap the pontiac T-350 it wont line up with the chev
says the guy who was going to use stock pistons for a 400 performance engine

i never said i was going to use stock pistons i only was wondering if they could work as well

but i know they wont thats why im going to use forged pistons

well sorry but if you dont know when building a performance engine to replace the pistons and u have to ask then u need to put down that wrench and pick up a curling iron :lol: :lol2:

some stock pistons are good and i wanted a higher compression thats why i was wondering if the stock ones would be better

what are some things that would help identify a mid to late 70's 400? It'll have the size stamped on the block, drivers side near freeze plug. have also seen it stamped passenger side only smaller near engine mount. Block started getting stamped around 1970. also. under valley pan on webbing. if it's says 5/0 it's a 350. 0/0 400 . 5/5 455. block casting date is stamped near distributor.

well sorry but if you dont know when building a performance engine to replace the pistons and u have to ask then u need to put down that wrench and pick up a curling iron :lol: :lol2:
I resent that remark! I have a wrench AND a curling iron in my hand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

69bird
Thanks buddy
I've been trying to get an answer to that question for a while now-and that's the clearest one yet.
I have a '79 camaro with a poncho BB in it,and I couldn't find the numbers on it.You just saved me a lot of paint scraping...I'm just sorry I didn't see this post earlier,it would have saved me a lot of shoveling too :lol: If you've got any more info on those engines (year codes,hp ratings) please post them.
Thanks again

http://www.teufert.net/identify/identify.htm

This link will help identify Pontiac engines,

not even, just tap and drill out new holes, takes like 20 minutes, there both 90 degree mounted, just tap and drill sum new holes thats all

:rofl: I would love to see this "speedshop" you work at...

Do you use Playdoh for block filler?

Well I had to get into this! Ithepeople has to pull his head out. The 400,428,455s are the only way to go. The 350 small bore shrouds the valves and has never been a performance engine. It will cost way more money to rebuild a 350 and will at best run like an anemic 400 . I built a 400 in 1991 for $999 and then got a stock valve job, new springs for $300. My average 1/4 mile time is 12.6 secs on ARCO gas. Heads are stock #16s. Now if you figure my engine is over 13 years old and is still running strong and is still alive after the beatings I give it, you are dead wrong about 400s 455s blowing up. These are the engines of choice at any drag race event. Leave your 350 at home!!! I know many Pontiacs running in the 10s and drive on the street. Oh and guess what, they arent 350s. I have had 6 Pontiacs at one tim and have 4 right now. One was a built 350 that went ok in the 1/8th but top end it didnt have the kahoonas. All my cars have 400s in them and I thrash on every one. Take a look at my link . There are lots of pages in each album catagory and 100s in My Pics. If and when my 400 goes I have 4 455s and one of them will be put in the Red car and hope will be in the 10s. This engine will have H beams and E-Heads. http://groups.msn.com/SixtyEightFirebird/shoebox.msnw?Page=1

It is always interesting to read what is wrong with a Pontiac engine from someone who obviously doesn't have a clue. The first give away is referring to a “big block” Pontiac. The Pontiac blocks (except maybe the 301) have exactly the same external dimensions. The primary differences between the 400, 428 and 455 are the stroke of the crankshaft. Also all the cranks except the 428/455 have 3” mains. The 428 and 455 have 3.25” mains. Before anyone nitpicks, the 389/400 are basically the same except for the bore, as are the 421 and 428. I have been racing Pontiac’s for almost 40 years. I bought my ’64 GTO new the last week in March in 1964. I raced it with a 389, then a 400, then a nitrous fed 428 with tri-power. After 18 years of punishment, I finally cracked the block on the 428. It was still working fine at the time. I found the crack while working on something else. I have also been racing a ’64 Tempest for over 3 years. It is a 400 that runs on 91 Octane pump gas. It has run 10.71 at 124. It has about 260 error free runs on it. Most Pontiac engines get blown up because people try to rev them like a Chevy.

You can check out my cars at the web page below. Also, if anyone has any questions about Pontiac’s, feel free to ask.

http://www.jimspontiac.homestead.com/Index.html

petereggy,
My advice to you would be to check out some of the Pontiac sites on the internet. A couple that come to mind are classical pontiac or performance years. The people on these sites will give you correct information and you wont even have to drill and tap holes for you BOP tranny to fit a chevy. Sorry but that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Good Luck with your engine,
Monty

petereggy,
My advice to you would be to check out some of the Pontiac sites on the internet. A couple that come to mind are classical pontiac or performance years. The people on these sites will give you correct information and you wont even have to drill and tap holes for you BOP tranny to fit a chevy. Sorry but that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Good Luck with your engine,
Monty

Yeah, I've been to those sites, what you'll find is bunch
of $ss h.oles who think the know it all. Do your self a favor
and stay away. Most of those Pontiac guys are jerks, I tired
getting help with my 455 and all the did was argue.

what are some things that would help identify a mid to late 70's 400?


I have all of the published Pontiac engine codes, but there are many. For instance, in 1970, there were 20 different codes for the 400, with HP ratings from 265 thru 370. There is a code stamped on the front of the block just below the right cylinder head identifying the engine. Get the code and call a Pontiac dealer - they can tell you what you have. If you have a specific engine you need to identify, reply to this message, and I'll reply. Most of the codes are two letters, with one exception being the '79 400, 10000 of which were built in '78 and held over for the 10th anniversary TA. It was coded "PWH". This was the last year for large displacement Pontiac blocks.

I must respectfully ask IthePeople to discontinue posting to this thread. It is obvious he has no knowledge on the subject being discussed and is attempting to incite a flame war. Please limit posts to information that you have first hand knowledge of being correct and under no circumtances post erroneous or false information, even if it is out of ignorance. Further violations will result in being banned from this forum.

r u sure, positive?
tranny's are all the same a turbo 400/350 is the same tranny used in pontiacs and chevy's


Now I know your full of crap. bolt pattern on the Chevy Turbo 350/400 are DIFFERENT than the BOP 350/400 Turbo trannys. You cannot bolt up a BOP tranny to a CHEVY block without, one, buying an adapter. Or two installing a chevy trans.

And you claim to build engines? Yeah sure you do.

And for what it's worth I own two Pontiac's. One run 11's all day, street car, ex drag car with the same SHORT BLOCK as when it was a dedicated drag car. My other car run 13's with a 400.

Also you mentioned the 301 Pontiac. That was a piece of junk engine.

I would have to echo everything said by Mr. Taylor. Those that have had problems in the past building Pontiacs that live, have not done their research, or simply applied the mythology of other engine families to the Pontiac.
If the larger displacement engines were so bad, why is the 421 the most dominant engine in the history of NASCAR? 1962 (yes, ancient times), they won 33 of 36 races, two drivers winning 31 of those. It has been argued that that year is the reason Pontiac has never gotten a fair shake from NASCAR in the aero department, and why they have chosen to not participate any longer.
The late, great Smoky Yunick had only praise for the Pontiac. His advice should be heeded: "Don't REV it up, GEAR it up?" The poor 409s didn't know what hit them. Same for the FEs and Dodge wedges.
For many years, Pontiac was the "red-headed stepchild" of GM. With the advent of muscle car racing, Pontiac has re-emerged as a force to reckon with. And that's the "traditional" Pontiac V8, not Chevy motors with Pontiac valve covers. Even GM, in their infinite lack of foresight, has developed new camshaft packages for the 25-year "dead" Pontiac.
We got lumped in with Olds, Buick and AMC as "also rans". It isn't so today. Pontiacs are back, right between the BBC and SBC, where they were "back in the day". Only the younger guys at the track don't take them seriously. The older crowd remembers, and shows respect. After all, GTO did NOT earn a reputaion for losing!
We (our shop) build any kind of automotive, light truck and light industrial engine made. We have small block cars running in the 9s, "streetable". We also have Pontiacs doing the same thing, at a lower RPM and a corresponding lack of parts-eating. And when it comes to TRUE street engines (lower compression, reasonable cams, etc.), Pontiac has an overwhelming advantage, expecially in heavier cars, due to the massive production of low-end torque. The intake port has been the envy of muscle car builders from the beginning. True, the exhaust port has been the limiting factor. One must understand the rationale used by the original engineers, a subject rather deep and broad for this forum.
The implications of the availability of high-end racing parts, such as blocks, heads, Victor, Mezierre, etc. and at competitive prices to the Chevy, should adequately illustrate the extent of the "return". And there are more coming! One shopo in Ohio will soon be marketing a cylinder head for the traditional Pontiac, that rivals Big Chief for flow.
In short, don't underestimate ANY engine. Even Buicks can be built to make power and live. No other engine family has a deeper history and tradition in high performance than Pontiac. And Pontiac should also be given credit for bringing high performance cars to the masses. The Corvette is a good one, but the volume of cars produced puts GTO at the top of the list. The ONLY American car made in the late '70s smog era that would turn the tires over in pure stock form, was the Trans Am with the 400 (not the Olds-powered or wimpy305s). They would run away and hide from the L-82 (an engine with a performance reputation based soley on myth) Corvettes.
And it's true, some of the Pontiac-specific sites are full of one-upmanship and ego. But not all of them. Boyleworks should be given a try. Most knowledge and least competition among visitors, all dedicated to their hobby, and not to "I know more than you!" crap. A couple of guys I've read here could take a lesson from that!

Jim

I must respectfully ask IthePeople to discontinue posting to this thread. It is obvious he has no knowledge on the subject being discussed and is attempting to incite a flame war. Please limit posts to information that you have first hand knowledge of being correct and under no circumtances post erroneous or false information, even if it is out of ignorance. Further violations will result in being banned from this forum.


Dude, what are you talking about?

1. you are not any part of the administration as it says nothing under your name to indicate such.

2. Idiot or not, telling him what you did in the manner that you did is not acceptable, however proper it was. Telling him he will be banned when you yourself do not have the power to do such a thing is completely ridiculous.

If I see YOU acting like you are an admin on this site anymore, telling people they will be banned if they dont shape up, YOU will be banned from this forum.


I'll leave this open AS LONG AS discussion does not turn to a flamewar; IThePeople, if you have an argument make it, if someone calls BS on you and they are right, dont try and weasle your way out of it, things work out better that way for everyone.

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02-05-2004, 11:11 AM Re: Identifying a 400 (Post #42)
I must respectfully ask IthePeople to discontinue posting to this thread. It is obvious he has no knowledge on the subject being discussed and is attempting to incite a flame war. Please limit posts to information that you have first hand knowledge of being correct and under no circumtances post erroneous or false information, even if it is out of ignorance. Further violations will result in being banned from this forum.

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02-05-2004, 12:38 PM Re: Re: Identifying a 400 (Post #45)

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Originally Posted by administration
I must respectfully ask IthePeople to discontinue posting to this thread. It is obvious he has no knowledge on the subject being discussed and is attempting to incite a flame war. Please limit posts to information that you have first hand knowledge of being correct and under no circumtances post erroneous or false information, even if it is out of ignorance. Further violations will result in being banned from this forum.
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Dude, what are you talking about?

1. you are not any part of the administration as it says nothing under your name to indicate such.

2. Idiot or not, telling him what you did in the manner that you did is not acceptable, however proper it was. Telling him he will be banned when you yourself do not have the power to do such a thing is completely ridiculous.

If I see YOU acting like you are an admin on this site anymore, telling people they will be banned if they dont shape up, YOU will be banned from this forum.


I'll leave this open AS LONG AS discussion does not turn to a flamewar; IThePeople, if you have an argument make it, if someone calls BS on you and they are right, dont try and weasle your way out of it, things work out better that way for everyone.




Who do you think you guys are stating that you are Administration and a REAL moderator. Look at my name damn it!!!! If you can't play nice and stop all this bickering back and fourth saying you are not allowed on this baord than I have no choice to pull the plug and NO ONE will post. You got it... This means you! Acting like babies I say... C'mon were big pants people here.. stop making all that jack sauce...

Goodbye fool.

Hey Swiggy what's the problem? No sense of humour? Considering the average age around here, I would think maturity wouldn't be an issue. Here's a plan for you: Get some real knowledge about cars, and then get some people with real knowledge about cars. OK?

I have a great sense of humour, however when I, or any of the other mods ban someone, it is done for a reason. You're in no position to be questioning my maturity. You are being banned for reasons that are quite obvious to a great many people. Take a hint.

I found a Potiac Lamnas and it has a 400 in it. I have heard that these had NASCAR heads on them. If so, will they fit on the 301 in my Formula?

I found a Potiac Lamnas and it has a 400 in it. I have heard that these had NASCAR heads on them. If so, will they fit on the 301 in my Formula?

You need the 3/4 race perforated cam, otherwise the pistons will constantly switch bores. make sure you have a can of Dixie in your hand when you do this, Shark.

I don't understand, Gunboat. A 3/4 race cam is 3/4 the length of a regular cam, right? So if it's only 3/4 long that means that it would only be useful for six of the cylinders, right? Does that help it make more power? Does it mean that I now would have a 301 V6? If so, that would rock! I know that V6's are more powerful and effecient than those ancient dinosaur V8's. Could I get a 1/2 race perforated cam and have a V4? I'd rather have a Honda Vtech anyway but am stuck with this Firebird.

I don't understand, Gunboat. A 3/4 race cam is 3/4 the length of a regular cam, right? So if it's only 3/4 long that means that it would only be useful for six of the cylinders, right? Does that help it make more power? Does it mean that I now would have a 301 V6? If so, that would rock! I know that V6's are more powerful and effecient than those ancient dinosaur V8's. Could I get a 1/2 race perforated cam and have a V4? I'd rather have a Honda Vtech anyway but am stuck with this Firebird.


Yes, and don't forget, you can use the other two cylinders for things like filling flat tires, or if you are good, supercharging the other six cylinders. Plus with only a 3/4 cam, you save weight.

You guys have me rolling. It's plainly obvious that Ithepeople has no idea what he's talking about. I don't intend to start a flame war but if ANYONE actually listens to what that guy has to say you deserve the problems you're going to get, lol. Some may understand what I say next (but if you don't, it's funny).

IthePeople... Here's your sign.

i build engines at a performance shop and pontiac 400's are 455 are shit, they blow all the time and it is easy to convert a firebird to a chevy engine because they are the same frame and body as a camaro all u need to change is the motor mounts if u want a rare engine with lots of torgue get a 427 big block chevy
i have myself built chevy 350's and right now im running a pontiac 350 and let me tell you a chevy engine cost about half as much to build as a pontiac and u get way more options


WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?? 400's AND 455's BLOWING UP?? GUYS LIKE YOU FLAPPING YOUR LIPS ABOUT SOMETHING YOU DON'T APPEAR TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT DON'T HELP THE HOBBY. :screwy: