SOHC ZC vs DOHC ZC


branman_crx_guy
08-21-2003, 03:15 PM
Aight, i know the basic difference, ones dual over-head cam ones not. But i was just wondering wat car the SOHC ZC is from and wat the ratings are for hp and torque and compression, cuz i was on hmotorsonline ( this page (http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=category&keyword=JDM%20USDM%20Engines&hit=15) ) and it had those ratings. Just wondering if they're are correct..also, is this engine hella easy to put in and does neone have a picture of it? Basically nething u can tell me would really help me out cuz im orderin today. Thanx.


PS Im not doing DOHC ZC, for complicated reasons, thats y i need to know about the SOHC.

Melt
08-21-2003, 03:17 PM
dont get a sohc zc ... it will not offer significant gains over your current si motor. Get a d16z6 out of a 92-95 civic ex

also there are no hard numbers on this motor. some people say they are 108 hp ... while i have heard others say they are 118hp.

but yes, it is the same as any other d series swap ... whoever had my car before me did the swap themselves .... and didnt put the mpfi in along with it :rolleyes:

SiZ
08-21-2003, 04:05 PM
Why can't you do a DOHC ZC?

SOHC ZC isn't even going to be worth your time and money. Might as well just leave the motor stock.

jackacc
08-21-2003, 11:19 PM
Just get a z6 or a y8 (sohc vtec)...they produce almost as much hp as the dohc zc and parts are alot easier to find...prolly have less miles too...

Melt
08-21-2003, 11:33 PM
SOHC ZC isn't even going to be worth your time and money. Might as well just leave the motor stock.

i agree with the wise man.

BullShifter
08-22-2003, 01:02 AM
The pic on the right in my sig is a SOHC ZC. Mine was worth the $225 i paid for it :bigthumb: I bought the car with a blown engine so i didnt feel a difference. Well . . .

Edit: The swap took my partner & I about 3hrs - engine/tranny - running & driveable.

BullShifter
08-22-2003, 01:14 AM
here goes another pic(better) taken shortly after swap.
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/983629Closeupenginepic.JPG

branman_crx_guy
08-22-2003, 03:23 PM
Ok, well heres my situation, see if you can help me out. The guy doing my swap is a deuche....that is, he says he can't swap in any engine other than what comes in the car or else its illegal :rolleyes: . I hate ppl like him, but he does swaps all the time so he does know what he's doing, just doesnt know wat he's talking about. So I'm worried if i buy the DOHC ZC and he looks at it, he wont do the swap cuz its not the same engine, then i'm f*cked.

Also, I plan on selling my engine once i get the swap and get a new front bumper, so i dont want to spend a lot of money on an engine when i wont be gettin much of it back.

So now I want some advice, wat would you all do in my situation? I dont really know nething about D-series engines cuz i always wanted B-series, so I dont know prices/ratings, so if neone knows of a better engine thats the same price plz let me know asap. Thanx

PS I am planning on buying an engine today, so plz hurry thanx.

PPS Also, I really need a new engine in the next few weeks, cuz im driving my car to Atlanta for Nopi, and this guy can put it in in two weeks, so im kinda depending on him.

branman_crx_guy
08-22-2003, 03:35 PM
Just get a z6 or a y8 (sohc vtec)...they produce almost as much hp as the dohc zc and parts are alot easier to find...prolly have less miles too...

Do they get swapped in as easily as the other D-series engines? Cuz i see its from a different generation, so i wasnt sure if u'd have to change wiring or nething like that, cuz he wont do that stuff either. If it is easy, where can i find them for cheap?

91civichatch2571
08-22-2003, 03:37 PM
Is he doing it for free? If not then find somebody else. Also, 2 weeks is a damn long time. I did mine myself in my garage and it took 2 days. Definitly atleast go sohc vtec or doch zc, dont do a pointless swap.

SiZ
08-22-2003, 03:51 PM
Get someone else to put the DOHC ZC in for you.

branman_crx_guy
08-22-2003, 03:59 PM
No it wont take him 2 weeks, he can just take my car in in 2 weeks, he said he can do the swap in 2 days as well. And i dont know of ne places who will swap in an engine, and he said he'd do it for $440, thats including a clutch too. Honestly, i have no idea if this is even a good price for the swap or not, but i dont really have time to do it or know of neone else around in maryland that'll do it. If anybody out there knows of someone that you think is cheaper and would be able to do the swap soon and do it competently, let me know.

PS Sorry for the lame newbie type questions, but like i said i know nothing about d-series and have a short time frame to work with.

D15Bitch
08-22-2003, 04:54 PM
Haters...

The difference between the SOHC ZC and DOHC ZC is what, 10 HP. You can easily make that up with intake & exhaust alone.

One thing that no-one ever mentions about SOHC engines is "reciprocal mass".

The reason why Honda continues to bring out SOHC motors, as opposed to DOHC, even in the years 1988 - 1991, (competing with others like Toyota and Mazda who both brought out DOHC motors in entry level cars, yet Honda SOHC D15 motors still produced the same power as, say, the DOHC Toyota 4AF) is because a single cam uses less engine power to drive the cam. Two cams soaks up TWICE the engine power that one cam would. From the same bore and stroke...

If you raised the compression of a SOHC ZC to the same as a DOHC, chances are you would get the same output...

On the other hand, two cams allow for better control of timing, as well as valve angles, better flow.

Melt
08-22-2003, 05:36 PM
look i can be a hater because i have this particular engine in my car. I finally got to drive a 88 civic sedan the other day with the dx motor and even though im running dpfi my motor is a nice difference.

But over an d16a6 its basically the SAME motor, other than the fact that the sohc zc is said to have a more agressive cam, and about 10 more hp. It would be a much better choice in this particular instance to get a d16z6 in my opinion.

The d16z6 is a SOHC motor. So it isnt like we are all completly hating on the sohc.

91civichatch2571
08-22-2003, 05:42 PM
Get someone else to put the DOHC ZC in for you.
This day goes down in the calendar. I think thats the first time ive heard you encourage someone to go with a D-series! :grinyes:

SiZ
08-22-2003, 06:20 PM
I'm a SOHC hater, not D series. :p I had a DOHC ZC before.

Branman - Don't rush your swap for sake of the show. I dunno, I guess your in it for a different reason than I am, but when you're doing something like an engine swap the last thing you want to do is rush it so you can get a motor (just anything) in for a show. I mean, swapping the motor is an important and expensive descision. Thats going to be your building platform for making your car faster later down the road.

D15Bitch - I was under the impression that a SOHC ZC is not much more than a D16A6 with maybe a few more HP. So say that there is a 13-15hp difference between the two engines, you're not going to make up for that with $400 in bolt-ons. (intake and exhaust) I'd spend the extra money and get a DOHC, then go from there.
C'mon man.. All of Hondas cars that were made to go fast have been DOHC since like 85.

91civichatch2571
08-22-2003, 07:22 PM
Siz, whats your personal comparison between ZC vs. B16? If I get the money in a couple years, im gonna either give my ZC a rebuild and forced induction, or try the B16.

SiZ
08-22-2003, 08:55 PM
:sly: Dude, the B16 rocks. :p

The ZC was a nice little motor. For the money, its the best cheap mod a person can do for pefromance for their 4th gen. Like, its smater to get a ZC swapped in your car for relativley cheap then waste all that money on bolt ons for less results on the stock SOHC, and your ZC is still stock, so no extra strain on the motor. I was totally happy with the swap when I got it, it was quick and cheap. Soon the HP bug hit me though, now that I'm going this fast I want to go much faster. Around that time was when Jeff from homemadeturbo just started to experiment with his junkyard turbo setups and shit, so I got talking to him alot about getting some more power from my ZC. Realizing that was more than I was willing to get into financaily, then risk having a not-so reliable daily driver, I decided I'd have to do NA mods to it. My car is driven LOTS daily, and I need it. It has to be reliable. So I started looking into getting all the bolt ons, and I found out that for the same price as a set of cams for my ZC, I could buy a 1st gen B16.

So, I got talking to the guy about the swap and decided I would spend a little more money and go to a better platform for a 13 second car. (the devine plan)

The B16 is much faster. A lot of people who don't have DOHC VTEC motors knock on VTEC a lot because it seems like such a pitch. A lot of DOHC VTEC owners love it, and love VTEC, because once they have it they know. ;) Not only is the B16 a lot faster in stock form, but its a really reliable motor. Mine has had the SHIT beat out of it day in and day out for about 3 years or so and it still runs strong. Its sees 8k at least once a day. The only thing I've had go wrong is the distributer took a shit one night after about 8 runs at the track. But, not too much more can be expected of a 12 year old distributer either. Also, the B16 revs a lot smoother than the ZC did I find.. The transition into high RPM. and the feel from the motor just seems a lot more reassuring in the B16 at 8k as compared to the ZC with @ 7k. The B16 is a very tried and true 1.6L motor for Honda, it has been for a long time, in a lot of cars.. Its definatley not because it wasn't an amazing motor. You following me? :licka:

So for now, the B16 is a kick-ass motor that makes the car very quick in relativley stock form. I'd rather be .3 seconds slower in a car with a stock motor than be daily driving a D series under pressure, and having to deal with all the issues that come with having a motor that heavily modded. Down the road, I think I'll probably have my 4g for a long long time to come.. I've spent a lot of money on it, (too much to sell it) and have a very good platform to have a 13 second streetable car that I can take to the road course and tear it appart too. Just a weekend racer type of car.

Damn, I got lost.

branman_crx_guy
08-22-2003, 09:29 PM
NO kids, you misunderstood. I'm selling the car in like 2 months, just needed a new engine cuz mine has nearly 180k miles on it. I wanted something a little faster but still cheap, just so it sounds cooler when i sell it (now instead of crx w/stock engine its crx w/zc engine) doesnt matter that its not DOHC, cuz morons over here dont know the difference :biggrin: . So i ordered the SOHC today, $590 shipped. So in 2 weeks ill have like 40k miles instead of way too many, which should help me sell it. But thanx for ur input. Sorry to stir up trouble, but its all good.

Melt
08-22-2003, 09:33 PM
im sorry to call you out ... but you are stupid for wanting to put a new engine in your car ... it generally wont help you sell it any better, and you deff wont get what you paid for the swap.

also if i remember correctly your car is fully kitted and has some body work on it so why would you want to throw that all away?

whatever to each his own :sly:

branman_crx_guy
08-22-2003, 09:40 PM
I already have some ppl that said they'd buy my car once i get an engine, they probly wont but ppl on this island dont know a whole lot about my car. So if i throw a "hi-performance" engine in there they'll pay more. And im not in a hurry to sell it, but im sick of having this old ass car with all these problems that breaks down once a month. I just want something with power windows and a/c and a rear seat....so im gettin a 92-95 civic hatch, only for like a year tho (not doing nething to it), just gonna drive it till i can afford a G35 Couple 6 spd. So yeah, thats my reasoning, and i know i wont get wat i put into it, but at the rate im goin im gonna destroy my car and then it will be worthless.

Melt
08-22-2003, 10:12 PM
:headshake why would you buy a g35? those are gay ... you want a car thats not gonna have any problems or breaking down? Get a low mileage civic dx, dont do any mods to it and be done. You cant have performance AND reliability.

SiZ
08-22-2003, 10:24 PM
Melt, you can have performance and reliabilty, but its not going to come cheap. A friend just bought a G35 and he's having all sorts of problems with it. :loser:
Thats just the way it goes, I'm sure it will be a much better car after a couple years of production. (not even saying the G is a bad car persay, I drive a friggin' Civic)

Melt
08-22-2003, 10:31 PM
the g is an overpriced pos ... my friends mom just bought one and he thinks its the tightest shit in the world and im like lets face facts ... it isnt your car, you drive an 03 corolla, which got beaten by a 91 civic so :thefinger

HONDABOND
08-22-2003, 10:37 PM
:sly: Dude, the B16 rocks. :p

The ZC was a nice little motor. For the money, its the best cheap mod a person can do for pefromance for their 4th gen. Like, its smater to get a ZC swapped in your car for relativley cheap then waste all that money on bolt ons for less results on the stock SOHC, and your ZC is still stock, so no extra strain on the motor. I was totally happy with the swap when I got it, it was quick and cheap. Soon the HP bug hit me though, now that I'm going this fast I want to go much faster. Around that time was when Jeff from homemadeturbo just started to experiment with his junkyard turbo setups and shit, so I got talking to him alot about getting some more power from my ZC. Realizing that was more than I was willing to get into financaily, then risk having a not-so reliable daily driver, I decided I'd have to do NA mods to it. My car is driven LOTS daily, and I need it. It has to be reliable. So I started looking into getting all the bolt ons, and I found out that for the same price as a set of cams for my ZC, I could buy a 1st gen B16.

So, I got talking to the guy about the swap and decided I would spend a little more money and go to a better platform for a 13 second car. (the devine plan)

The B16 is much faster. A lot of people who don't have DOHC VTEC motors knock on VTEC a lot because it seems like such a pitch. A lot of DOHC VTEC owners love it, and love VTEC, because once they have it they know. ;) Not only is the B16 a lot faster in stock form, but its a really reliable motor. Mine has had the SHIT beat out of it day in and day out for about 3 years or so and it still runs strong. Its sees 8k at least once a day. The only thing I've had go wrong is the distributer took a shit one night after about 8 runs at the track. But, not too much more can be expected of a 12 year old distributer either. Also, the B16 revs a lot smoother than the ZC did I find.. The transition into high RPM. and the feel from the motor just seems a lot more reassuring in the B16 at 8k as compared to the ZC with @ 7k. The B16 is a very tried and true 1.6L motor for Honda, it has been for a long time, in a lot of cars.. Its definatley not because it wasn't an amazing motor. You following me? :licka:

So for now, the B16 is a kick-ass motor that makes the car very quick in relativley stock form. I'd rather be .3 seconds slower in a car with a stock motor than be daily driving a D series under pressure, and having to deal with all the issues that come with having a motor that heavily modded. Down the road, I think I'll probably have my 4g for a long long time to come.. I've spent a lot of money on it, (too much to sell it) and have a very good platform to have a 13 second streetable car that I can take to the road course and tear it appart too. Just a weekend racer type of car.

Damn, I got lost.

Sounds fun. Like SiZ says, Vtec motors KICK ASS. But, I dont think thats because of the VTEC. IMO, VTEC sucks major balls. The DOHC VTEC motors are just a superior desighn as far as port sizing and flow in CFM's. You can port a SOHC d series motor to flow a bit better than a stock dohc b16 head.... Which isnt saying much.
Now, as far as Vtec is concerned, there are a few points to consider.
First off (I have a built ass zc, and this is one of the things I admire of the vtec motors) the vtec heads have a shaft which the rocker arms lide onto keaping them MUCH more stable at high rpms AKA vtec.
With that said, it all depends on what type of personality you have, (I'll explain) You can make LOTS of power and have a smooth idle as well as an impressive lower powerband with a big blemish in the middle of it (were vtec kicks in).
Or (If you are like me) you can toss the vtec mess and use some knarley ass camshafts (Crain vtec killer) and roller rockers and toss your bottom end (You will idle at 1000 rpms, you will idle like a V8 loping like crazy, you wont make crap for power under 2500) and have a smooth as powerband and make a fuckload of power beyond what is posible with the constraints of vtec at the sacrafice of some streetablity (sore calf on left leg... thats a good work out to me!) and your bottom end... But it is in no way less reliable then a vtec setup in any way... its actualy more reliable because of less moving parts.

DartB20/C1 project is soon underway! GSR head aquired, B20 block soon.

Melt
08-22-2003, 10:47 PM
heavily modded zc no less relaible than a b16? :bs:

91civichatch2571
08-22-2003, 11:51 PM
heavily modded zc no less relaible than a b16? :bs:
Not to say your completely wrong melt and I dont want to piss you off, but you dont really know all that much. Hondabond obviously knows his shit, I would figure he knows a lot more than you about building d-series engines to take some abuse and still be reliable. You have no place to say that what he just said is bs. Instead of focusing on the theory that modified engines are less reliable than stock, listen to what people say and learn more. Again, I dont mean to talk shit but be open minded and understand that people arent just talking out of their asses here, they know what their talking about. I dont know a whole lot but im learning every day from reading and listening to others, try it.

Melt
08-23-2003, 12:42 AM
youre right ... i dont know all that much. But hondabond has been here before under a differnet username. He has made all sorts of overexegerated claims about the dohc zc. And while he may speak a bunch of technical jargon about engine components, and actually work on his motor and probably have a badass setup his zc isnt even in his car yet, and once in, probably wont last very long cause i bet hes too stupid to break it in.

I have also heard many stories about unreliable dohc zc's from many people on this and other forums. The only guy i know who has yet to have any problems with his dohc zc is '91hatch' and that is because his engine is fairly stock with bolt ons.

So ... based on everything i have read on this and other forums, I am going to stick with my original comment, that a b16 is likely more reliable than a dohc zc.

95civicman
08-23-2003, 01:01 AM
my zc doesn't have any problems, but i only have i/h/e and a 50 shot hooked up for like 3 races. but i'm goin back to 5th gen with a 96-00 gsr motor so it doesn't matter. the only bad thing about the zc is the rods, way too small to do anything serious to the engine without replacing. other than that it hands a fairly good amount of imports their ass on a daily basis.

HONDABOND
08-23-2003, 02:32 AM
Sounds fun. Like SiZ says, Vtec motors KICK ASS. But, I dont think thats because of the VTEC. IMO, VTEC sucks major balls. The DOHC VTEC motors are just a superior desighn as far as port sizing and flow in CFM's. You can port a SOHC d series motor to flow a bit better than a stock dohc b16 head.... Which isnt saying much.
Now, as far as Vtec is concerned, there are a few points to consider.
First off (I have a built ass zc, and this is one of the things I admire of the vtec motors) the vtec heads have a shaft which the rocker arms lide onto keaping them MUCH more stable at high rpms AKA vtec.
With that said, it all depends on what type of personality you have, (I'll explain) You can make LOTS of power and have a smooth idle as well as an impressive lower powerband with a big blemish in the middle of it (were vtec kicks in).
Or (If you are like me) you can toss the vtec mess and use some knarley ass camshafts (Crain vtec killer) and roller rockers and toss your bottom end (You will idle at 1000 rpms, you will idle like a V8 loping like crazy, you wont make crap for power under 2500) and have a smooth as powerband and make a fuckload of power beyond what is posible with the constraints of vtec at the sacrafice of some streetablity (sore calf on left leg... thats a good work out to me!) and your bottom end... But it is in no way less reliable then a vtec setup in any way... its actualy more reliable because of less moving parts.

DartB20/C1 project is soon underway! GSR head aquired, B20 block soon.

Melt, what the fuck are you talking about? I said THE DOHC VTEC MOTORS ARE A SUPERIOR DESIGHN... you would think with all that college momy and dady pay for you would have learned to read, comprehend, and not blurt out complete bullshit that has nothing to do with what i have posted.
So, since you have proven yourself to be an idiot I will explain the points in the topics I discused just like a college profesor and you can study them and do some homework.

Point #1. DOHC VTEC HEADS HAVE LARGER AND BETTER SHAPED PORTS THAT CAN FLOW MORE CFM'S AND AT A GREATER VELOCITY AND ANGLE. "You can port a SOHC d series motor to flow a bit better than a stock dohc b16 head.... Which isnt saying much."

Point #2. THE DOHC VTEC ENGINES ARE MORE STABLE AT HIGHER RPM'S BECAUSE THE ROCKER ARMS ARE CONECTED TO A ROCKERSHAFT AND THUS CANOT MOVE FROM SIDE TO SIDE. " the vtec heads have a shaft which the rocker arms slide onto keaping them MUCH more stable at high rpms AKA vtec."

Point #3 VTEC ISNT ALL THAT GREAT IN MY OPINION. "IMO, VTEC sucks major balls." "You can make LOTS of power and have a smooth idle as well as an impressive lower powerband with a big blemish in the middle of it (were vtec kicks in)."

Point #4 IT TAKES A LOT OF MOVING PARTS TO MAKE VTEC WORK, THE MORE MOVING PARTS THE MORE CHANCE OF FALURE. "But it is in no way less reliable then a vtec setup in any way... its actualy more reliable because of less moving parts."

Point #5 I AM ALMOST DONE WITH MY ZC ITS IN MY CAR AS WELL AS THE TRANSMITION, YOU WOULD THINK IF I CAN TEAR APART AN ENTIRE MOTOR AND REBUILD AND SWAP IT IN MY CAR COMPLETLY BY MY FUXING SELF, I WOULD HAVE THE SELF CONTROLL TO BREAK IT IN PROPERLY.... IN FACT I JUST PICKED UP A GSR HEAD WHICH I INTEND TO USE >VTEC KILLER CAMS< AND >ROLLER ROCKERS< IN INSTEAD OF VTEC... "DartB20/C1 project is soon underway! GSR head aquired, B20 block soon"

Now, remember, if you want to get OWNED some more :nono: please join www.theoldone.com which is a technical forum and you can get your ass chewed out for blurting shit out without reading.
:2cents:
Your pal Seth.

Melt
08-23-2003, 03:42 AM
at least all that money my "momy and dady" spent on college (which isnt all that much, i got scholarships) taught me how to spell :thefinger

whats this great trasmition setup youre puttin in with the zc? is it like a special way of changing gears thats different than a TRANSMISSION

D15Bitch
08-23-2003, 07:01 AM
I'm a SOHC hater, not D series. :p I had a DOHC ZC before.

D15Bitch - I was under the impression that a SOHC ZC is not much more than a D16A6 with maybe a few more HP. So say that there is a 13-15hp difference between the two engines, you're not going to make up for that with $400 in bolt-ons. (intake and exhaust) I'd spend the extra money and get a DOHC, then go from there.
C'mon man.. All of Hondas cars that were made to go fast have been DOHC since like 85.

You can't all keep comparing the ZC SOHC with a D16A6. Not the same engine. It appears to be the same, but it is not. It is a ZC engine run with a single cam. But that cam is much more aggressive than the D16A6 cam, and the internals (rods & pistons) are the same as used in the ZC DOHC. Thus it is a much stronger engine. Better for modding. Remember, D16A6 = 108HP?

http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData/

Now, visit the above link, choose the civic line-up, for 4th gen, go to sedans, and look at the specs for the 4G4D. Look at the specs of the RTi or RTi AWD.

If you need to, translate the page using:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Yes, you are not dreaming, those specs for the SOHC ZC in those 4G4D's say that those engines pushed out 120HP....stock

Then come back and tell me the ZC SOHC is not a sohc performance engine... 5-7 HP less than the first generation of SOHC Vtecs...

Setanta
08-23-2003, 08:27 AM
I don't buy the "more moving parts = more chance of breakdown, sorry".

Not with a Honda anyway - other companies yeah, I might agree.

Now I'm no rocket scientist, but my SiR has 254,000kms on it now - 80,000 of them put on me. That's a car that was a road-racer in japan (got the info from it's original owner on its history finally). It was treted the same as I treat it. I thrash the crap out of it - it regularly sees 8000rpm - and also does 2000km + interstate runs in Australian climate which is one of extremes. It's still going strong.

I'm not calling BS - but in my experience, the B16A is the best motor I've driven in terms of reliability in 19 years of driving experience.

Oh - and I know a bit about building D series too - I ran a 132bhp modified EW2 (D series precurser 12 valve) in one of my first gens.

ZC = good, B16A = better IMO

VTEC is about economy/power. You get to choose. No lumpy cams etc. Nice linear torque curve for efficient delivery throughout the powerband, even at VTEC engagement.

Horses for courses, but I'll take a B series engine over a D any day of the week.

Setanta
08-23-2003, 08:29 AM
at least all that money my "momy and dady" spent on college (which isnt all that much, i got scholarships) taught me how to spell :thefinger

Like you've never made a typo :screwy:

Not even I'm that lame Melt :evillol: :grinno:

Then again, it was a cheap shot about college ed :disappoin

95civicman
08-23-2003, 12:58 PM
and the internals (rods & pistons) are the same as used in the ZC DOHC. Thus it is a much stronger engine. Better for modding. Remember, D16A6 = 108HP?



the zc rods are anything but stong and reliable, i've seen many people throw a 50 shot on there(a couple with FPR, upgraded ignition, and the fuel safty switch thing.) and snap them right in half, also i've seen my own zc rod and if looks like I could snap it in half.

91civichatch2571
08-23-2003, 01:01 PM
the rods can only handle up to about 200hp before they bust.

TheNotoriousMogg
08-23-2003, 01:24 PM
I don't buy the "more moving parts = more chance of breakdown, sorry".

Not with a Honda anyway - other companies yeah, I might agree.

Now I'm no rocket scientist, but my SiR has 254,000kms on it now - 80,000 of them put on me. That's a car that was a road-racer in japan (got the info from it's original owner on its history finally). It was treted the same as I treat it. I thrash the crap out of it - it regularly sees 8000rpm - and also does 2000km + interstate runs in Australian climate which is one of extremes. It's still going strong.

there you have it folks ... someone with a high mileage b16 and its still goin strong ... how many zc's see those kinds of miles without a rebuild? Im a little worried about my sohc now that d15bitch says it has all the same parts ... i got about 70k on it now.

And yes i know i dont spell stuff all the time right ... but i can spell some simple words like transmission, failure, and design correctly.

melt asked me to post this for him

fredthedragon
08-23-2003, 02:51 PM
Like you've never made a typo :screwy:

Not even I'm that lame Melt :evillol: :grinno:

Then again, it was a cheap shot about college ed :disappoin


i'm sorry but in my personal openion not being an expert but i believe he forgot to take into consideration the amount of compression the block and head were designed to withstand, not to mention the added strain on the crankshaft and bearings. think about how much more power you could pull out of a b16 for the same money and the same time of advancements. not to mention 170 hp from a 2gb16a. according to my friend (who shall remain nameless, but one i depend on for his infinite VTEC and suspension knowledge, from intensive research and expert friends, and is buying a 98-01 GS-R. also, don't take any shots at this guy as he is just an innocent bystander.) "two more points: first off, the VTEC system merely consists of the rocker arms, an oil-pressure activated solenoid, and 8 pins that lock the 3-piece rocker arms together. not to mention the cams and the redesigned valve cover. second of all, the transition to VTEC-land is smooth. now, when you open up the intake, header, and exhaust, the transition to VTEC-land CAN BE HEARD AND FELT SLIGHTLY, but it is still Honda-smooth. now in the case of the late, great B18C1, you can actually hear the secondaries in the intake manifold opening up (5300 IIRC) after the VTEC point (4700, again, IIRC). just some food for thought."

:nono:

Melt
08-23-2003, 03:03 PM
well said. :sunglasse

whoo i can post in this thread now! I dunno what the story was earlier but i kept getting an error everytime ... so i hadda have mogg do it for me.

HONDABOND
08-23-2003, 03:29 PM
youre right ... i dont know all that much. But hondabond has been here before under a >differnet< username. He has made all sorts of >overexegerated< claims about the dohc zc. >And< while he may speak "Of" >a< bunch of technical jargon about engine components, and actually work on his motor and >probably< have a badass setup"," his zc isnt even in his car yet, and once in, >probably< wont last very long cause "I" >i< bet hes "He's" too stupid to break it in.

I have also heard many stories about unreliable dohc zc's from many people on this and other forums. The only guy "I" >i< know who has yet to have any problems with his dohc zc is '91hatch' and that is because his engine is >fairly< stock with bolt ons.

So ... based on everything "I" >i< have read on this and other forums, I am going to stick with my original comment, that a b16 is likely more reliable than a dohc zc.

Um, if you know how to spell so well... What the hell is this?
Care to make more of an ass of yourself?

SiZ
08-23-2003, 03:39 PM
You guys still talkin' bout cars!? :dunno:

HONDABOND
08-23-2003, 03:39 PM
Also, the B16 Heads are awsome. Especialy when you use vtec killer cams and roller rockers. I bet you anything I can run a B16 head harder and longer with the vtec disactivated using some roller rockers and vtec killer cams.
I can have a bunch of people come in here and agree with me (Just like Mr.Melt) but the plain and simple fact is that metal wears down. The more moving metal there is the more parts get worn and something breaks. Like how about vtec engagement pins? Every time you hit VTEC a little pin gets pushed through three rocker arms @ 5700 RPMs...

fredthedragon
08-23-2003, 03:52 PM
i believe all car questions were answered and all that remains is for someone to get tired of trying to squeeze in the last word, you know who you are. :silly:

so let's just all chill out and have a couple :cheers: and some ritual homicide :killbarne

Setanta
08-23-2003, 09:10 PM
...I can have a bunch of people come in here and agree with me (Just like Mr.Melt) but the plain and simple fact is that metal wears down. The more moving metal there is the more parts get worn and something breaks. Like how about vtec engagement pins? Every time you hit VTEC a little pin gets pushed through three rocker arms @ 5700 RPMs...

Did you even bother to read my post? :shakehead :shakehead

When you have a 13yo car that has run a B16A from factory release, then feel free to expound on your theories. For me you're simple talking half-assed theory backed up with a healthy dose of no-experience.

BTW - it's 5400, not 5700.

HONDABOND
08-23-2003, 10:54 PM
:screwy: :disappoin: :screwy:

fredthedragon
08-24-2003, 04:47 PM
:screwy: :disappoin: :screwy:

:banhim:
i think everyone reading this forum besides HONDABOND has realized what the real answers are. and i dunno about you but i will never value his openion, and what's with that cheezy quote, i wanna know how old he is cause i'm beginning to wonder if he can even buy cigarettes the way he's acting. This has been my piece i beleve this thread can be closed now. moderators, what's your call?

Melt
08-24-2003, 05:04 PM
haha hes already been banned and came back .... still wondering why they have yet to REban him ... cause i dont think anyone here wanted him back :thefinger

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