12 sec mustang ????


blackdeath1038
08-05-2003, 07:20 PM
currently im looking to purchase either a camaro z28 (98-02) or a mustang gt (99-03) so im just curious how fast u can mod a mustang gt with out a super charger can it run mid twelves modded or no ....

DkShadow
08-05-2003, 10:18 PM
Yes, a 99+ 2V Mustang CAN hit 12s without Super/Turbo chargers or Nitrous. Im going to Cut&Paste this post from another board, Im sure itll help you :smile:

__________________________________________________ ______
Here are the basics for getting a 99+ GT into the 12s NA (Naturally Aspriated = All Motor).

1.) Power – Although important it does not take a lot of power to reach 12s with the 2v. What is needed is roughly 245-255RWHP in addition to the other basics. This can be achieved with pulleys, timing adjuster or chip to advance timing, O/R H or X and mufflers to match (straight through or chambered), air filter. Obviously items like Longtubes, bullitt intake and cams won’t hurt but is not necessarily required.

2.) Weight Reduction – For someone that is serious about drag racing shedding a few pounds from the car is good for a number of reasons. First and foremost is lighter is faster, second is lighter car means less stress on the drive train. I would shoot for a 3300-3350 race weight, which for a stock coupe isn’t too hard to get to. Stock coupes weigh 3250 without driver so with an average driver weighing 180lbs that brings you to 3430. Dropping 80-130lbs can be done through rear seat delete, removal of spare tire and jack and removal of front sway bar. Now keep in mind it’s give and take situation, you could add more power say 10RWHP to offset the 100lbs in weight reduction if you didn’t want to touch the car at all. Same thing goes opposite you could remove more weight and not do as many power mods. It’s all about your power to weight ratio. Figure you need roughly .074:1 (245/3300 = .074) ratio of power to weight and it doesn’t matter how you get there.

3.) Suspension – Believe it or not but the stock suspension is not really all that bad. Stock suspension is fairly loose and if you meet all the other requirements then stock suspension is enough to break into the 12s. Of course most people mod the suspension first with lowering springs so this is for those of you that have done such.

Springs - What I consider the best set up is to have a car that is lowered but still retains good weight transfer. Now it’s common for fox body mustangs to use 4cyl springs up front, which are soft. The difference between any fox body spring and a SN-95 body spring is ¾” shorter. The 4cyl spring up front lowers the car considerably giving the car a great drop but still giving excellent flexibility for weight transfer. For the rear you want a stiffer spring but not too stiff. You want the car to squat about 1-2” and stay firm to keep the tires planted without bottoming out on the pinion snubber. If you bottom out the tires will “unload” or spin killing your 60 foot times. Since the fox body rears are ¾” shorter I go with v8 fox body springs and cut them down slightly till I get the ride height I desire. Just remember to not get too greedy and cut too much. Springs will settle some if they are new and after being cut because you are effectively changing the spring rate as you cut. Keep an eye on your pinion snubber as well you want a few inches of travel to prevent issues.

Chassis – Any car that is drag racing regularly should have subframe connectors welded in. Please do not bolt them, you are better off without them than bolting them in. Also as a preventative maintenance have your torque boxes and axle tubes welded up. You’ll thank me when friends of yours tear them or destroy a rear end housing because of not doing this…trust me I know from experience.

Struts/shocks – To compliment the springs a decent set of struts will help out your 60 foots. Again stock isn’t bad but with a drag type strut you’ll pick up a little more in your 60 foots and net you a little better traction. I suggest Lakewood 70/30s or 90/10s both will work fine and are plenty streetable. For those of you with a bigger wallet or want more variety in your handling go with an adjustable strut like a Tokico. As for shocks I’ve been told the stock shocks have a 50/50 ratio just like Lakewoods so I say save your cash and keep the stock ones in unless yours have gone bad.

Control Arms – Also another item that isn’t 100% necessary to break 12s but will make it easier. Basically you want a solid type lower to reduce flex and an adjustable upper. The adjustable uppers cost more but if you plan on racing the car long term it’s a good investment so you can adjust your pinion angle. Solid bushings are the best to reduce power being lost to the bushings absorbing but are also the harshest to ride on. I would recommend to most to go with something that uses a urethane bushing instead that will be more live able daily.

4.) Tires/gearing – Don’t fear the gear! Any serious NA car should be using 4.10s or 4.30s. It can be done on 3.73s but I feel they are a waste NA. Due to our power band 4.30s are the optimal gear but you will run out of gear around 108-109 MPH on a 26” tall slick which is more than enough for bolt on 2v cars. For tires your best bet is a full on slick, I use 26x8.5x 15 ET Drags. However you can reach 12s on DRs but it will take more practice at the track and isn’t nearly as easy not that 12s with slicks is a guaranteed thing. Also keep in mind the stickier the tire the increased chance of axle or differential breakage.

5.) Practice – This may be last on the list but I can not stress enough how practice is a key component here. For some it may only take a few dozen passes to reach their goal for others much more. It took me over 100 passes to get the best out of my car in stock form. It’s also why I mod my car and sometime don’t see any true results for months down the road. It takes time to adjust to a different set up, power band, clutch, etc…
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After that, if you want to go faster... Youll have to use a Power Adder since the Aftermarket for the 2vs right now doesnt leave much to be desired staying All-Motor

fearnsj93
08-07-2003, 11:32 AM
Actually there are more mods available for the 2v engine. You can actually buy head kit's... check out www.powerheads.com for a really nice power upgrade. They offer a heads/cam/intake package. With just that upgrade you'll easily be in the 12's. The air flow is really restricted on the mustang engine so anything you can do to open up the air headed into the engine and out of the engine will add quite abit of HP also. The exhaust on the 2v engine is VERY restrictive, I have a friend that added a Throttle body, pulleys, 3.73 gear, and a set of long tube headers (headers on the 2v engine aren't too hard to put on from contrary belief), bigger mass air and injectors. With just those add on's his best time was a 12.2 on some borrowed slicks. If you were really serious about upgrading tho, the powerhead solution is the key to unlocking some serious HP.

Joe
93 coupe
306 + too many mods to list :P

boosted331
08-07-2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by blackdeath1038
currently im looking to purchase either a camaro z28 (98-02) or a mustang gt (99-03) so im just curious how fast u can mod a mustang gt with out a super charger can it run mid twelves modded or no ....

That's cake. Easiest way into the 12's is to swap in a 4V motor :smile:

Los
08-07-2003, 03:10 PM
best way (who cares how much money you blow):

Heads, cams, gears, pulleys, mass air, throttle, bullitt intake, timing adjuster, long tube headers, matching h pipe, exhaust (catback), control arms, slicks and BAM! 12s baby!

DkShadow
08-07-2003, 03:11 PM
I dont think just adding the h/c/i will put him "easily" into the 12s. If I P/P my heads, get a mild cam and swap for a Bullitt intake ill be lucky if I even make 280rwhp. Besides that setup is basically for 96-98 'stangs which will see more power due to the crappy heads it has compared to the 99s+(the powerheads setup that is). If you want to go fast and want to stay N/A, its going to cost you more than if you just opted for Forced Induction, not to mention you wont even make the same rwhp.
About your friend, what year is his GT? Whats his raceweight? Suspension mods? Rwhp/Trq? Thats very fast for a 2v with those mods. Hes only making around 230-40rwhp at the most and runs 12.2? I know theres some fast 2vers with only 250-60rwhp running mid 12s but a 12.2? :dunno:


Originally posted by fearnsj93
Actually there are more mods available for the 2v engine. You can actually buy head kit's... check out www.powerheads.com for a really nice power upgrade. They offer a heads/cam/intake package. With just that upgrade you'll easily be in the 12's. The air flow is really restricted on the mustang engine so anything you can do to open up the air headed into the engine and out of the engine will add quite abit of HP also. The exhaust on the 2v engine is VERY restrictive, I have a friend that added a Throttle body, pulleys, 3.73 gear, and a set of long tube headers (headers on the 2v engine aren't too hard to put on from contrary belief), bigger mass air and injectors. With just those add on's his best time was a 12.2 on some borrowed slicks. If you were really serious about upgrading tho, the powerhead solution is the key to unlocking some serious HP.

Joe
93 coupe
306 + too many mods to list :P

DkShadow
08-07-2003, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Los
best way (who cares how much money you blow):

Heads, cams, gears, pulleys, mass air, throttle, bullitt intake, timing adjuster, long tube headers, matching h pipe, exhaust (catback), control arms, slicks and BAM! 12s baby!

Id rather go blowned. Its cheaper and gets way more rwhp. :biggrin:

Los
08-07-2003, 06:33 PM
:thefinger

All motor baby!

HiFlow5 0
08-07-2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Los
:thefinger

All motor baby!
Yeeeeeeaaaaahhhhhh!!!!:bigthumb:

DkShadow
08-07-2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Los
:thefinger

All motor baby!

:thefinger

I doubt you can get 350rwhp N/A in a 2v.
Just remember, theres nothing better than being blowned :wink: :iceslolan

hmongstang
08-08-2003, 01:33 AM
what the hell is a 2V and 4v? yes i'm a dumb ass and lazy to do research.........:loser:

HiFlow5 0
08-08-2003, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by hmongstang
what the hell is a 2V and 4v? yes i'm a dumb ass and lazy to do research.........:loser:
Either 2 valve head (1 intake, 1 exhaust) or 4 valve head (2 intake, 2 exhaust) . GT's came with 2 valve heads, the Mach 1 one and Cobra have 4 valve heads.

Just remember, theres nothing better than being blowned You know, you might have a point. As long as she doesn't bite!

Los
08-08-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by DkShadow


:thefinger

I doubt you can get 350rwhp N/A in a 2v.
Just remember, theres nothing better than being blowned :wink: :iceslolan

You can get 400 rwhp if you want... just costs a lot of money!

:loser:

So you go on with your 'blown' self.

:bigthumb:

blackdeath1038
08-08-2003, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by boosted331


That's cake. Easiest way into the 12's is to swap in a 4V motor :smile:

obviously the easy way but i dont feel like goin into swaping the engine :wink:

DkShadow
08-08-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by blackdeath1038


obviously the easy way but i dont feel like goin into swaping the engine :wink:

If you want to stay Naturally Asp. the Cobra engine is the way to go. Itll be cheaper and have more potential...

You can get 400 rwhp if you want... just costs a lot of money!

I have not heard of a 400rwhp N/A 2v 4.6 engine. :dunno:

blackdeath1038
08-09-2003, 02:01 AM
any idea how much it would ring me up for a cobra engine? im assuming that you could get it directly from ford and that your car would still be under warranty correct me if im wrong

DkShadow
08-09-2003, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by blackdeath1038
any idea how much it would ring me up for a cobra engine? im assuming that you could get it directly from ford and that your car would still be under warranty correct me if im wrong

http://www.classicdesignconcepts.com/catalog/itemdisplay/571.html
Those are 4v Mach 1 engines which are pretty powerful. :smile:

I doubt your car would be warrantied though :dunno:

blackdeath1038
08-09-2003, 02:02 PM
hmmm althought it would be nice to do a engine swap i donno if i would want to bother going throuhg that any one have any kinda estimate for how much it would cost to get a gt into the mid 12's ...would it be alot easier if i got a 97-98 cobra and moded that to get into the 12's?

Los
08-10-2003, 08:54 PM
96-01 would be nice to get blown. Easy 12s.

:bigthumb:

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