Ford Focus WRC question


Seamus McRae
03-24-2019, 10:04 AM
G'day all

With respect to the '99 Focus WRC, was the red that M-Sport used around the back of the car fluoro as Hasegawa did with the decals in their Safari/RAC models or another shade of red like Tamiya did with their Monte Carlo kit? Or for that matter, did M-Sport change that red after the season started?

Cheers
Shaun

freakray
03-24-2019, 01:29 PM
It's an interesting question and open to some debate.

I personally lean towards it being fluorescent although some photos of the early season car make it look more like a bright red.

You have to take into account that colors can appear different in photos depending on equipment and lighting - I've found photos from the same rally where it looks bright red in one and is definitely fluorescent in another.

See example:
http://www.tenamp.com/real/mcrae-catalunya-costa-brava-99-01.jpg
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/13382/

potsie
03-25-2019, 12:52 AM
I agree this is a difficult colour to get right, but most (if not all) video I have seen from the era show it as a more fluorescent red; like the Hasegawa decals. In most photos the red on the car appears to be the same hue as the red "dot" in the middle of the Martini logo. But, as freakray pointed out, these colours change depending on the quality of the photo.

stevenoble
03-25-2019, 01:31 PM
It was plain bright red on the monte carlo rally and went fluorescent orange from Sweden if I remember correctly. Tamiya MS 9 was a good match for it, but I don't think you can get it anymore. Built my Rally GB with Tamiya MS 9

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/Ford%20Focus/IMGP1645.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/Ford%20Focus/IMGP1647.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/Ford%20Focus/IMGP1641.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/Ford%20Focus/IMGP1642.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/Ford%20Focus/IMGP1639.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/Ford%20Focus/IMGP1633.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/Ford%20Focus/IMGP1636.jpg

rallymaster
03-25-2019, 07:26 PM
It has always been fluo red, same color as the one used on the 98 Peugeot 306 maxi, appearing like orange under bright light... but really being red !!
so many (die-cast) brands felt in the trap...
only different lights can make it appear different, but for sure it was red the whole season.
So building it with orange can be true if you suppose it was a pic taken under full bright light :lol:

Pedro F. Gouveia
03-26-2019, 07:38 AM
stevenoble is rigth
Monte Carlo it was red not fluo


It has always been fluo red, same color as the one used on the 98 Peugeot 306 maxi, appearing like orange under bright light... but really being red !!
so many (die-cast) brands felt in the trap...
only different lights can make it appear different, but for sure it was red the whole season.
So building it with orange can be true if you suppose it was a pic taken under full bright light :lol:

rallymaster
03-26-2019, 09:26 AM
stevenoble is rigth
Monte Carlo it was red not fluo

No, no, that's false :nono: :shakehead
it already was fluo red in Monte Carlo, but it's hard to get from pics... especially under a cloudy winter weather...

maybe this pic under in full light can help you to see the "orange look alike" already there in MC

I got the information from a reliable source, there has always been only one color, which is the same that the one used on the 306 maxi, appearing red or orange depending on the light.

Just find pics from later in the season and you'll see that it also appear red when no light (exactly like in MonteCarlo) when same car 2 stages later appear orange. :)

Seamus McRae
03-26-2019, 10:48 PM
Thanks gents. Appreciate the info

malscar
03-27-2019, 05:27 AM
Even the cars when they were first put in front of the media pre season were the fluro.

Fmartin360
08-05-2019, 10:32 AM
Hey gents,

I'm really struggling believing that Monte-Carlo was the same red as later in the season.
I do agree that in some rallies, the red appears dark and flat like in Monte-Carlo.
On the contrary, I can't find any picture from Monte-Carlo where the red appears to be fluo...

I recently built the RAC version as well, and used a tamiya spray from the TS range, I think it was the TS-36, and I feel like it's a pretty good match:

chris24
08-08-2019, 02:34 AM
Don't want to turn this post into WW3 but Steve, Pedro and Fmartin are right.

I was a pro photographer at the time and I saw this car live at the Monte 99 (and also in 2000, 2001 and 2002): I can assure you that the red was a classic italian red at Monte 99 and fluo for the rest of the season and the following years.

I shot and examined thousands of pics of red cars during that period, under all possible lighting conditions, on slides and then with digital cameras. The fact is that, on a picture, the best way to detect fluo red is under cloudy weather, in the shadow, at the sunset or at the dawn of the day. This is why fluo exists : to look bright when the sun is not shining. On the contrary, in the sunshine, it nearly looks normal. By the way, you can see on Rallymaster's "sunny pictures" that the red has an orange hue (dayglo) whether on the cloudy Monte picture it appears red (as on the Valvoline logo) where it should appear more clearly fluo, as the lighting conditions are ideal for that.

Cloudy conditions pictures of other 99 rallies would be more explicit.

Sometimes reliable sources are not so reliable, I experienced it myself more than once.

Anyway, I hope this thread won't turn into the same nightmare as the Subaru Prodrive blue(s) or the JPS gold :D

chris24
08-08-2019, 02:41 AM
For instance : fluo red under typical british weather in november :
https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/1/7/6/142176-22066-65-720.jpg

chris24
08-08-2019, 02:51 AM
Cloudy Monte :

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/EH8KDJ/colin-mcrae-and-nicky-grist-driving-their-ford-focus-wrc-on-a-stage-EH8KDJ.jpg

So what do you think ?

Peace ! ;)

Fmartin360
08-08-2019, 08:38 AM
I don't think anybody wanna start a war :biggrin:
I "reactivated" this topic as I ran into it while surfing the forum, and I would really be happy if all of us can agree on something in the end (whether it ends up with my point of view or otherwise, I'm ready to be convinced!).

Some pictures to prove us wrong:

https://www.wrc.com/images/News/2299_mcrae-safrai-1999_20_592x333.jpg
Credit wrc.com

In Safari, the red appears flat and dark like in Monte-Carlo (even if we can guess some orange light in some areas). Which can be due to a really heavy sun light compensated by informatic after-treatment?

Same story maybe here in Greace:
https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/colin-mcrae-s-1999-ford-focus-wrc-to-be-sold-at-silverstone-122942_1.jpg



https://c8.alamy.com/compfr/eh8kcn/colin-mcrae-et-nicky-grist-conduisant-leur-ford-focus-wrc-sur-une-scene-dans-le-rallye-de-monte-carlo-1999-eh8kcn.jpg

A picture from Monte-Carlo where the red appears really close to the fluo one!

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/EH8KE9/colin-mcrae-and-nicky-grist-driving-their-ford-focus-wrc-on-a-stage-EH8KE9.jpg

On this one, the red seems a bit fluo as well, but I believe the flash was used.

And this to finish:
https://youtu.be/3fELPat-14U?t=230

Let's do not forget all these pics are now 20 years old.

This is for sure really really confusing!

rallymaster
08-08-2019, 07:26 PM
By the way, you can see on Rallymaster's "sunny pictures" that the red has an orange hue (dayglo) whether on the cloudy Monte picture it appears red

That's precisely why I call this one fluo red ! :naughty: but maybe it's misleading because it was even more fluo later in the season...! :screwy:
and as Fmartin360 said even when we call it Red it can appear orange (?!? :screwy::rofl::runaround:) so to me this is what should have been called fluo red (maybe I simply ignore there was two shade of fluo appearance if true...)
That suprises me though as I got the info from a Ford Mechanic that they always use same color (even explaining they won't change color once car has been presented to press, sponsors and so on...)
but hey "Sometimes reliable sources are not so reliable, I experienced it myself more than once" :iceslolan:iceslolan:iceslolan
So if you're 100% sure so maybe I simply had a bad information... :uhoh: :crying:

My conclusion :
1/ some colors won't ever be seen the same by all modelers, each one influenced by his sources, informations (more or less good :evillol:), own pictures...
2/ I won't build 99 monte carlo version !!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

rallymaster
08-08-2019, 07:30 PM
Cloudy Monte :

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/EH8KDJ/colin-mcrae-and-nicky-grist-driving-their-ford-focus-wrc-on-a-stage-EH8KDJ.jpg

So what do you think ?

Peace ! ;)

I think that this one (but you are the photographer) is a really bad pic with a lot of noise - some strange lights setups ?!? that may not be the best one to judge color, but just looking at it it appear as red as my pic above appear orange !! :lol: :lol:

that said I can add that your informations given to me have always been usefull and true so I can easily trust you and feel sorry for contradiction to Steve and others if I were wrong... :frown: :disappoin I sincerely thought I had the correct information...
I hate to give bad informations... :sly: :biggrin:

stevenoble
08-10-2019, 03:10 PM
If I remember correctly, Tamiya quoted TS-49 red for their Focus, which was Monte Carlo '99. Hasegawa didn't give any paint number, but instead supplied decals for the red/orange areas. They were almost day-glo in appearance.

chris24
08-13-2019, 04:04 AM
I think that this one (but you are the photographer) is a really bad pic with a lot of noise - some strange lights setups ?!? that may not be the best one to judge color, but just looking at it it appear as red as my pic above appear orange !! :lol: :lol:

that said I can add that your informations given to me have always been usefull and true so I can easily trust you and feel sorry for contradiction to Steve and others if I were wrong... :frown: :disappoin I sincerely thought I had the correct information...
I hate to give bad informations... :sly: :biggrin:

Indeed, technically this pic is far from some quality standards. But that's why it is interesting : it's underexposed and in those conditions a fluo red would stand out much brighter. So at least we are sure it is a normal red.

The debate is still open whether this red stayed the same for the whole season. Don't worry : I myself would accept a proof that I was mistaken ;)

Martini Man
08-15-2019, 05:53 PM
Cloudy Monte :

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/EH8KDJ/colin-mcrae-and-nicky-grist-driving-their-ford-focus-wrc-on-a-stage-EH8KDJ.jpg

So what do you think ?

Peace ! ;)

I think I'm wondering how he's going to get around that corner at that angle!!!!
:grinyes:

chris24
08-20-2019, 08:14 AM
I think I'm wondering how he's going to get around that corner at that angle!!!!
:grinyes:

Not a problem for the usual McRae :)

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