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Zero Paints 2K clear disaster


Tibi Keke
04-05-2014, 09:41 AM
Hi all,

I started to work again on modelcars and bikes, I am bored to build plains.
I did some models in the past using Automotive 2K Clear with great results, but for models with many decals I buyed the 2K Clear from Zero Paint.

Today was my first day using this product and I am very diseponinted. Maybe it's just my mistake or maybe it's something wrong the the clear.

I started like the instuctions are writing to prepare the clear . 100 parts clear, 50 parts hardener, around 20% thinner. There is mentioned to use it in 20 minutes! Ok, started to put some mist coats on a test part (see picture) and then on the parts they have to be cleared. I apllyed two mist coats with a time interval for 5 minutes between coats. After that I started to put a wet coat on the test peace. The result is this :
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pbFroKHFYB0/Uz__SaAurqI/AAAAAAAAD70/4i5JJ5DBUec/w958-h719-no/DSC07099.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-utc_aOaNcuc/Uz__SmvUuqI/AAAAAAAAD8A/57wARbJRkgY/w958-h719-no/DSC07100.JPG

On the test peace are now many small holes , they are like "fisheyes" but I really don't understand why!

With this situation I was forced to stop and try to find answers.

Do I have to thin the clear more? Or is some contamination ? Or is something else?
Any advice will help!

Thanks!

mattbacon
04-05-2014, 10:12 AM
Well, I've been using Zero 2K Clear mixed according to the instructions for years, and never seen an effect like that, so I don't think it's the mix proportions in the instructions that are off. That looks as though somehow the airbrush is spitting "blobs" of clear that don't flow into a smooth coat properly.

This is my description of what I see happening when I use Zero 2K, from another post:

"Then time for the clear: you only need to wait 10-15 minutes after the last base coat, though I tend to leave it an hour or so to get up my nerve... I find that the "instructions" ratio of 60 clear to 30 hardener and 10 thinner works fine. In practice you don't need to be super-accurate. Pour 1/2" or so of clear into the bottom of your airbrush jar, add half as much again hardener (1/4") and half as much as that of thinner and it works just fine...

Then start to spray. Move over and around the body, keeping moving all the time. As the stuff goes on you'll see four stages (I REALLY suggest practicing a couple of times on a plastic spoon to see what you're looking for.) At first, the surface is rough, but starting to be shiny as well; then it'll start to look smooth, but with speckles where some of the base coat is still "above the waterline" or only just under it; then it'll be smooth but if you look closely you can see the tiny droplets of spray "splashing" into the surface like rain on a puddle and levelling as you move on; finally, you'll see tiny ripples like the wind blowing the surface of the puddle. Move away and the ripples relax over a second or two into a glass smooth surface. That's the point where you've done enough -- the "wet coat".

So... Is it particularly hot or humid where you are? The clear could be starting to cure so it's more jelly like as you spray, or it could be starting to dry in the air as you spray it? What paint are you using it over? I've only used it with Zero's own base coats, and I think the matt, slightly rough surface is important in getting the clear to spread smoothly and evenly. I've only ever mixed the clear, sprayed the first mist coat immediately, waited the 5-10 minutes suggested and then done the main spraying, so it's possible that 20 minutes is too long to leave it. Are you using Zero's own thinners? I don't know why that would make a difference, but it might... You're sure you used the larger amount of resin and the smaller amount of hardener (don't be insulted -- we all have lapses of concentration every now and then!)

Good luck!

bestest,
M.

stevenoble
04-05-2014, 12:35 PM
It could be some form of contamination from the plastic knife you are using as a test piece. Most probably some form of oil or grease from the plastic itself, or some type of lubricant used in the making of the knife. Or you have used something contaminated during the mixing of the clear itself. Mixing vessel? stirrers? pipettes? gloves? all could be contaminated. Or it's the airbrush itself that has some form of contamination, or it's coming from the airline/air source you are using? Could be all of, or any combination of these things. The answer is to eliminate them one by one until you find the cause and clean the airbrush and anything that's metal with thinners.
On the other hand it could also be that you need to add more thinner or apply the clear wetter, because it also looks like it's not flowing out enough. Is it hot or cold where you're spraying, is it humid or moist? All this can affect the flow and drying of the clear. If it's not flowing due to hot weather conditions you may need a slower thinner to retard the drying time and give it more time to flow out. If it's cold a fast thinner will speed up the drying time etc, etc. I must admit I've had this same effect myself and it was the plastic syringe I used to draw the clear from the bottles with that was at fault. Needless to say I don't use those syringes anymore. Let us know how you get on, but don't discard it. Once mastered it is an awesome clear coat and gives a fantastic finish..!!

Tibi Keke
04-05-2014, 01:39 PM
Hi Matt and Steve,

Thank's for your answers and spending time for me! The weather and humidity is fine. Where I paint is around 20 C, so the temperatur is good. Steve has right, and is some sort of contamination because of the syringes I also used for the first time to extract the corect quantity I need! I will try again tomorrow morning and hope it will run better.

Many thanks!

andybmw7272
04-05-2014, 01:43 PM
I think Steve is on the right track that there might be some contaminants on the knife.
Try some sort of scrap from your parts box.

hirofkd
04-05-2014, 05:39 PM
Looks like the thinner from the wet coat ate through the mist coat and crazed the underlining paint and maybe even the plastic spoon. Urethane clear's thinner is like hot lacquer, so it will dissolve any type of hobby paint if applied too much. I'd suggest applying a few more mist and medium wet coats, and save wet coat until the very last one or two coats.

stevenoble
04-05-2014, 06:27 PM
Steve has right, and is some sort of contamination because of the syringes I also used for the first time to extract the correct quantity I need!

Those syringes are not very good. I think it's the rubber plunger inside that has some form of lubricant on it to help it slide. Definitely don't use them. I tend to use plastic pipettes now or just a plain metal Tamiya paint stirrer that I wipe with cellulose thinners before use to make sure there are no contaminants on it. I would make sure you clean out your airbrush thoroughly too, as contaminants from the clear could still be inside and pollute any further clear you use.

stevenoble
04-05-2014, 06:35 PM
Looks like the thinner from the wet coat ate through the mist coat and crazed the underlining paint and maybe even the plastic spoon. Urethane clear's thinner is like hot lacquer, so it will dissolve any type of hobby paint if applied too much. I'd suggest applying a few more mist and medium wet coats, and save wet coat until the very last one or two coats.

I've tended to find the opposite to be honest when using any 2K (urethane) clear coat. Always found it much gentler than other clears and pretty much non aggressive in it's nature. Never had any problems with using it and it eating previous paint coats or decals. In fact I've even sprayed it over Humbrol Enamel paints with no problems or wrinkling of the enamel finish. Which brand urethane have you been using? I've used Zero, Du-Pont and Mipa without issue so far..

Tibi Keke
04-06-2014, 03:40 AM
Hi all! Thanks one more time for your answers!

Well, it was 100% contamination from the syringes! I did a test this morning and the clear shows it's real potential! I sended the test part with 2000 send paper and recoated with clear. Now the surface on the same test part is perfect.
The next problem was to see if the parts I already sprayed yesterday with light mistcoats will show any sign of contamination. Yes, it shows imediatlly! So I stoped again and sended with 2000 paper ( first dry then wet) all the parts. Now I recoated everything. On all the parts (8 pieces) I found just 3 small spots of contamination and unfortunatlly some dust. Will leave the parts to dry and send them after the Bahrain race this evening.

To my surprise, this clear is hard to send, much harder than I expected! Is that so? Autohton 2K clear I used in the past years was lighter to send and to polish. What is your experience?

stevenoble
04-06-2014, 04:34 AM
Yes, it is very hard clear to both sand and polish. It is better to get the application as perfect as possible, so as to leave yourself little, or no polishing. Use more thinner in your last coat and you will find it will flow out and self level like you wouldn't believe. I've had a few times where it's needed no polishing at all after spraying. If you do need to polish use automotive compounds/polish. The two I find that work really well are Meguiars#105 first, followed by Meguiars#205 to refine the finish. Most hobby type compounds/polish are not strong enough to work. What is the red you were using on your test pieces? Looks like some kind of fluorescent red, maybe for a McLaren possibly?

Tibi Keke
04-06-2014, 04:51 AM
The test piece is sprayed for about 2 years with Tamiya TS 36 Fluorescent Red. I read many bad reports about this paint, mostly about cracking. My test pieces did not crack.
For spraying clear I needed something what it's easy to see what is happening. That's why I used this test pieces. Black is better but I didn't have a piece ready.

As I mentioned befor, I need to send the pieces because of the small contamination spots but also because of the dust. I don't have Meguiars polishing compound, just two other compounds for Cars. I also have the Tamiya Compounds. If with this compounds will be hard to work, I will go to the stores and search the Meguiar compounds.

GirchyGirchy
04-07-2014, 10:11 AM
Those syringes may have some sort of silicone lubricant on the rubber. Silicone will definitely ruin a paint job with fish eyes as you have on your knife.

ales
04-18-2014, 12:45 AM
Those syringes are not very good. I think it's the rubber plunger inside that has some form of lubricant on it to help it slide. Definitely don't use them. I tend to use plastic pipettes now or just a plain metal Tamiya paint stirrer that I wipe with cellulose thinners before use to make sure there are no contaminants on it. I would make sure you clean out your airbrush thoroughly too, as contaminants from the clear could still be inside and pollute any further clear you use.

This!

I'd battled with fisheyes for months before I realised that it was not the paint or surface, it were the syringes I used for mixing paint.

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