I'm 16 and work at a grocery store. It's a sweet store cause 90% of workers are under 24. But what pisses me off is there is a early ninetys honda with wheels but no other mods, a early ninetys honda with the hood smashed thats completely stock, and a early ninetys toyota corolla completely stock. One day my dad dropped me off in are 1996 Mustang, one of the kids was outside lookin at a customers Mitsu Galant (shit). Our stang is only a v6 but this kid didn't know or care. He walked right by without lookin like he was the shit. I don't mind ricers, i enjoy to laugh, but i get pissed off by these kids who think they are the shit because they drive a completely stock early ninetys economy car. Just cause its japanese they think its awesome. I'll have a stang in ten months and we'll see how their ecos do on the strip:biggrin:

The V6 Stang is one of the worst cars on sale- sorry- but the engine is so unbelievably crap- it won't do very well on the strip- It is a silly little poser car- only designed for looking like a muscle car- but performing worse than an economy car. So don't go around thinking it is the slightest bit good- it isn't- understood? The kid had good premise to to look at your car


And there is nothing wrong with these Japanese cars- they are strong reliable cars- perfect for someone with limited finances- so don't hate on them.

Originally posted by Jimster
The V6 Stang is one of the worst cars on sale- sorry- but the engine is so unbelievably crap- it won't do very well on the strip- It is a silly little poser car- only designed for looking like a muscle car- but performing worse than an economy car. So don't go around thinking it is the slightest bit good- it isn't- understood? The kid had good premise to to look at your car


And there is nothing wrong with these Japanese cars- they are strong reliable cars- perfect for someone with limited finances- so don't hate on them.

I hate Japanese economy cars not jap cars in general. The v6 stang is far faster than an OLD jap econnomy car like they drive. If you new anything about American cars you would know that the 3.8 is one of the most longlasting v6 engines you can buy. By the way, look whos talking. Alfa Romeos are and will always be some of the junkiest Euro cars around. Of course you just thought it was good cause it was European right? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You like Fiats too?

FIAT
Fix It All the Time
Failure in Automotive Technology
Feeble Italian Attempt at Transportation

Are you Italian or do you just like junk?

:banhim:

Originally posted by BLU CIVIC
:banhim:

:iagree:

Originally posted by BLU CIVIC


:iagree:

:werd:

Originally posted by fordmustang23
You like Fiats too?

FIAT
Fix It All the Time
Failure in Automotive Technology
Feeble Italian Attempt at Transportation

Are you Italian or do you just like junk?

You think Fiat is bad - wait till you drive a FORD! oh wait...

Me? - I'm a Yugo man. I drive it for under-compensation. I wouldn't be caught behind the wheel of something so shoddily constructed as a Ford:icon16:

Originally posted by Jimster
The V6 Stang is one of the worst cars on sale- sorry- but the engine is so unbelievably crap- it won't do very well on the strip- It is a silly little poser car- only designed for looking like a muscle car- but performing worse than an economy car. So don't go around thinking it is the slightest bit good- it isn't- understood? The kid had good premise to to look at your car


And there is nothing wrong with these Japanese cars- they are strong reliable cars- perfect for someone with limited finances- so don't hate on them.

I agree with about 99% of that... I believe the only reason the Mustang sells is because of it's history and because there are a lot of die-hard Mustang fanatics out there. The name sells, not the car.

Oh, and Bloke, good to see you get to mod for the Yugo forums. You deserve it. :bigthumb:

who cares about classics anyway.plus look at the top of your computer by the name of the web site thats right its a skyline not a fu*kin mustang.

Originally posted by fordmustang23


I hate Japanese economy cars not jap cars in general. The v6 stang is far faster than an OLD jap econnomy car like they drive. If you new anything about American cars you would know that the 3.8 is one of the most longlasting v6 engines you can buy. By the way, look whos talking. Alfa Romeos are and will always be some of the junkiest Euro cars around. Of course you just thought it was good cause it was European right? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Yeah OK that is very bright indeed- If you pulled your head out of your ass and learnt the slightest things about Alfa Romeos- you would see how thier driving dynamics are up there with BMW, thier chassis are some of the greatest FF ones in existnace And the like- you can't just call them junky and not back up your claim without any evidence- I also am guessing you haven't seen Alfa Romeos ingenious JTS Direct fuel injection engines either.................But then again you drive a Ford- A V6 Ford- probably don't even know how the thing works :rolleyes: Also don't EVER associate the word long-lasting with FORD- I bought an Alfa Romeo not because they are European- but simply because they are the best drivers cars you can get for 30,000 Euros- ford sure as hell can't offer anything better.


If I liked junk there'd be a guaranteed place on my front lawn for a V6 Mustang

Originally posted by preludepride
who cares about classics anyway.plus look at the top of your computer by the name of the web site thats right its a skyline not a fu*kin mustang.

That might be one of the stupidest things I ever heard said on these forums. Who cares about classics????? A Skyline cartoon by the name means a lot????? Think before you speak... you might make yourself look like an ass....

ohhhhhh.i can see your pride in classics....with a lambo logo.PRIDE!?:bloated: :loser: :icon16: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would also like to point out that Fiat owns Ferrari.

Anyhow; my take on this is that the Mustang is everywhere. There are less Gallants on the road than Mustangs. They are just as bad as Civics. Why pay special attention to a car that he had probably seen several times that day?

The Mustang with the V6 was what has kept the Mustang afloat and put the F-Body under. Simply because it is a chick car, you heard me right. Pretty much all of the V6 Stangs I see around here are been driven by a woman. It is an image car, that’s it. It isn't fast, it has very little power and a lot of weight to push around, and that equals a slow car. You are about as fast as that Gallant that you called a piece of shit.

Next time you want to bash on cars have a little more knowledge, because you just ended up making an ass out of yourself. Besides, not everyone likes American cars, just like you don’t care much for imported cars.

wow ... I dont even know where to start.

First off my slow ass (early 90's honda) SMOKED a v6 mustang
Second off how can you make fun of anyones car at this point in your life. Their car is a hell of a lot better than your feet or bicycle if you have one.

this point in whos life?a stang better than feet......nope.:lol:

Originally posted by preludepride
this point in whos life?a stang better than feet......nope.:lol:

One day my dad dropped me off in are 1996 Mustang

what I was trying to say is he has no right to make fun of anyone elses car if he doesnt own one himself

sorry melt.i thought you were talking to me...a fellow import-tuner.we all got to show these fu*kin hicks how we do it...jap style

Originally posted by Polygon
I would also like to point out that Fiat owns Ferrari.

Anyhow; my take on this is that the Mustang is everywhere. There are less Gallants on the road than Mustangs. They are just as bad as Civics. Why pay special attention to a car that he had probably seen several times that day?

The Mustang with the V6 was what has kept the Mustang afloat and put the F-Body under. Simply because it is a chick car, you heard me right. Pretty much all of the V6 Stangs I see around here are been driven by a woman. It is an image car, that’s it. It isn't fast, it has very little power and a lot of weight to push around, and that equals a slow car. You are about as fast as that Gallant that you called a piece of shit.

Next time you want to bash on cars have a little more knowledge, because you just ended up making an ass out of yourself. Besides, not everyone likes American cars, just like you don’t care much for imported cars.

In a nutshell yes- FIAT Auto Group owns FIAT SpA and Ferrari SpA- FIAT SpA is Alfa Romeo, FIAT and Lancia- Ferrari SpA is Maserati and Ferrari- but the two SpA's are seperate divisions ;) Just a pointless economics lesson there :D

Anything I was going to say has been said :smile:

I really dislike Mustangs, easily the most overrated vehicle ever built. And I'm a fan of classic American iron, so don't call me an export-hater.

Oh, preludepride or whatever, you're a goddamn idiot.

Originally posted by Kobal
I really dislike Mustangs, easily the most overrated vehicle ever built. And I'm a fan of classic American iron, so don't call me an export-hater.

Oh, preludepride or whatever, you're a goddamn idiot.


Export????? It's domestic dude- Ameican cars seldom leave the US :rolleyes:

Originally posted by preludepride
sorry melt.i thought you were talking to me...a fellow import-tuner.we all got to show these fu*kin hicks how we do it...jap style

Are you even japanese? Before you go calling the v6 mustang all show you should consider that most of the jap cars that you tuners have are build for gas mileage not speed. I like Ford's because where I live it is easy to get parts for them and you sound dumb calling fellow enthusiasts fu*kin hicks because they like mustangs.

we dont have a problem with real mustangs .... just that sorry exuse for one known as the v6

Originally posted by Melt
we dont have a problem with real mustangs .... just that sorry exuse for one known as the v6


I even have a problem with the GT to an extent- it's no where near as bad as a V6- but still not even half as good as a Cobra:wink:

i agree the v6 stang is under power but the 4 cyl it replaced was a bigger piece of shit.

Originally posted by Jimster

Export????? It's domestic dude- Ameican cars seldom leave the US :rolleyes:

Just an expression, buddy. An American car isn't domestic to someone from Sweden, and we have a lot of Europeans on these forums. I was attempting to be all-inclusive, not technically correct.

Also, to paraphrase something I said on another thread, damn near any car can be fast. I used to work with a guy who owned a late-model V6 Mustang that he put a lot of hard work into, and the results showed. However, I personally do not like the cars because of their appearance, pitiful stock performance, and their over-blown (and often fictional) status in the history of automobile racing. And I'm sick of seeing three of the motherfuckers for every one other car on the road.

Wow. Everyone I know would have walked past both. Mustangs, are family cars, they are economy cars. Thats how and why they were created. They were also created as a chick car. I get tired of people looking past 1970 firebird to look at some new car with exhaust tips.

Originally posted by Blue02R6
Wow. Everyone I know would have walked past both. Mustangs, are family cars, they are economy cars. Thats how and why they were created. They were also created as a chick car. I get tired of people looking past 1970 firebird to look at some new car with exhaust tips.

The Mustang was created because Ford was near bankruptcy; no one wanted their disgustingly boring family cars in the 60's. Ford designers brainstormed for a car to hook the younger hot rod consumers at the time.
What they ended up with was a small, sporty, disturbingly affordable car; basically a pristine blank canvas for the 'rodders back then. They sold like hotcakes, giving Ford the edge over GM for the fist time in 40-some years, so they never stopped making them.
They basically have not changed the Mustang at all performance-wise in the last 40 years. It's still affordable cool for the kids. Older dudes like them because it's nostalgic, younger kids like them because their dads liked them. Through this sort of lineage, the car has attained an almost legendary (and almost entirely fictional) history.
No one with any sanity ever bought a Mustang to seriously race it. They handle like shit and are underpowered. You have to sink a lot of money into them to make them seriously fast, and that damn near defeats the purpose of owning one in the first place. Any equally-equipped Trans-Am or Camaro can dust them; those cars were so much better than 'Stangs it wasn't even funny.

This is mostly why I hate Mustangs.

I'd like to add that the Boss 429 and Shelby Cobra's do not qualify as Mustangs, as they are highly modified from stock and were therefore twice as expensive. Not the same classification at all.

look at the top of your computer by the name of the web site thats right its a skyline not a fu*kin mustang

Beautifully put.

Man, I don't know where to start...

Mustangs handle like shit? I'd like to see you say that over on the Corner Carver's boards. These guys are SERIOUS road racers, with all sorts of differerent kinds of cars, and THEY know better than make a retarded comment like that. And teh Mustangs I've owned and autocrossed that weren't heavily modded would make you eat your words. Sorry, but I think you'r etalking out your ass. I've been building race cars for a couple decades and know better than to say that Mustangs are jokes.

There is so much I could go into on just that subject alone, but I won't right now, as there is more to get to.

V6 Mustangs. Guys, if any other manufacturer made a sub-$20k, RWD, V6 sport coupe that ran the quarter in 15.5 seconds or so, everyone would be calling it a performance bargain and a great base to build from. That's what a 5 speed V6 Mustang runs. The automatics run 17 second quarter miles. Sounds slow, but let's put that in perspective: the 240SX runs 16s, and GTIs run 15.5-17 seconds depending on engine. The 6 cyl Lexus GS300 runs 16s. The N/A RX7s ran 16-17 second quarter miles. The Celica GTS models for the past decade ran 16s. The ITR runs about the same.

While the V6 may be slow compared to the V8 Mustang, in comparison with everything else in it's stock class (sporty 6 cyl coupes and hatches) it certainly isn't slow. And it's cheap to upgrade. Guys in the V6 Mustang clubs are running 13s with bolt ons. If you think 13s are slow, you're on crack.

And the insurance on a V6 Mustang is way better than on a V8 one. A sporty new car with reasonable insurance, good aftermarket, and low initial price is a bargain.

could you explain to me how something so heavy with only 170 hp run 15.5 1/4 so close to the rsx type s that with 200 hp and way less weight?

Originally posted by Neutrino
could you explain to me how something so heavy with only 170 hp run 15.5 1/4 so close to the rsx type s that with 200 hp and way less weight?

One, they aren't that hgeavy. Two, they have decent gear ratios, and three, it's been a while since a V6 Mustang had 170 hp. They have 200 and 225 lb ft of torque.

That last is the key. See, the larger displacement V6 has more torque over a wider rpm band, down low where it really works to accellerate a car. Accelleration in gear ALWAYS follows the torque curve.

Basic engine building. Once kids stop magazine racing and actually get some experience building engines in a wide variety of cars, they'll see that.

v6 mustang top speed isn't great but it has so much torque it is great for everyday road rage. :bigthumb:

I dont know where to start with you guys, some of the things you say are so ridiculous, I bet most of you are 16 years old. But here we go...


Originally posted by Jimster
The V6 Stang is one of the worst cars on sale- sorry- but the engine is so unbelievably crap- it won't do very well on the strip- It is a silly little poser car- only designed for looking like a muscle car- but performing worse than an economy car. So don't go around thinking it is the slightest bit good- it isn't- understood? The kid had good premise to to look at your car

And there is nothing wrong with these Japanese cars- they are strong reliable cars- perfect for someone with limited finances- so don't hate on them.

Performing worse than a econo car?? It will beat your beloved Civic Si and most of the other econo junk you love so much. ChrisV already
touched up on this.

Originally posted by preludepride
who cares about classics anyway.plus look at the top of your computer by the name of the web site thats right its a skyline not a fu*kin mustang.

This is doesnt even deserve a response because that statement alone shows your complete ignorance.


Originally posted by Jimster



Yeah OK that is very bright indeed- If you pulled your head out of your ass and learnt the slightest things about Alfa Romeos- you would see how thier driving dynamics are up there with BMW, thier chassis are some of the greatest FF ones in existnace And the like- you can't just call them junky and not back up your claim without any evidence- I also am guessing you haven't seen Alfa Romeos ingenious JTS Direct fuel injection engines either.................But then again you drive a Ford- A V6 Ford- probably don't even know how the thing works :rolleyes: Also don't EVER associate the word long-lasting with FORD- I bought an Alfa Romeo not because they are European- but simply because they are the best drivers cars you can get for 30,000 Euros- ford sure as hell can't offer anything better.


If I liked junk there'd be a guaranteed place on my front lawn for a V6 Mustang


HAHA! last i checked Ford OWNS Alpha Romeo, this is definatly the funniest post I read, and youre a moderator for Alpha Romeo forums? hillarious...

Originally posted by Polygon

It isn't fast, it has very little power and a lot of weight to push around, and that equals a slow car. You are about as fast as that Gallant that you called a piece of shit.

Next time you want to bash on cars have a little more knowledge, because you just ended up making an ass out of yourself. Besides, not everyone likes American cars, just like you don’t care much for imported cars.

As stated above a V6 mustang will smoke most imports stock vs. stock, and im talking cars around its price range, I dont want to see any dumbass remarks like "well a turbo eclipse SiR Ex Si R will smoke it" heh.
Next time YOU bash on cars have a little more knowledge ;) You are making the ass out of yourself.


Kobal, ChrisV already addressed your dumbass remark about nobody buys mustangs to race, that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Yea people buy 1.8L economy cars to race instead. No thanx I have a Coca Cola bottle in the fridge with more liters.



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The Mustang 4cyl was NOT a piece of shit. the 2.3L OHC was a much stronger engine than the 3.8 will ever be.

Blown your 3.8L headgasket yet? just wait.

Stupid comments like that one make me sick, I bet you know nothing about the ford 2.3L. That engine turbo'd like crazy, and took massive mods.

If any engines in the stang, it starts with the 6's... the old inline 200ci, the new 3.8L and the old 255ci v8.

Ive driven a very very sweet turbo 2.3L 1988 t/bird as well as an 1985 Ford Mustang SVO (both turbo intercooled) and they were FUN to drive and lasted a looong time. (tbird turbocoupe = 87,88 car of the year).

Yeah, very shitty 2.3L

http://www.turboford.org

mustang V6's are decent and contrary to popular beleif they are pretty reliable. Ford did have some reliablility problems but they came along way. The feul injected 5.0s werent that reliable but the 94 style and higher was more reliable. i think ford had problems with getting the feul injection right for awile. But imports are great, i loved my 240sx. Turbo that KA24DE and it could take almost anything on the street. That under 10,000 for a 12sec p.o.s import including the price of the car. That can beat a new cobra if im not mistaken and they cost what over 30,000$. Do some internal work and crank up the boost, even more faster. I would however like the have a 94 5.0 w/ a super charger and exhaust done, you just cant that kind of sound with a import. I like imports and domestics equaly as much but when you have a 12sec import it has alot more alure then a 12sec mustang because there quite common. I go 2 miles to mcdonalds and i see 5 mustangs on the way. I like stuff that not alot of people have, my 240sx is special that way, being a 12sec car makes it even more special. I dont think people should argue like this, its very foolish. "my car is faster then yours" go to a course and proove it.

mustang V6's are decent and contrary to popular beleif they are pretty reliable. Ford did have some reliablility problems but they came along way. The feul injected 5.0s werent that reliable but the 94 style and higher was more reliable. i think ford had problems with getting the feul injection right for awile. But imports are great, i loved my 240sx. Turbo that KA24DE and it could take almost anything on the street. That under 10,000 for a 12sec p.o.s import including the price of the car. That can beat a new cobra if im not mistaken and they cost what over 30,000$. Do some internal work and crank up the boost, even more faster. I would however like the have a 94 5.0 w/ a super charger and exhaust done, you just cant that kind of sound with a import. I like imports and domestics equaly as much but when you have a 12sec import it has alot more alure then a 12sec mustang because there quite common. I go 2 miles to mcdonalds and i see 5 mustangs on the way. I like stuff that not alot of people have, my 240sx is special that way, being a 12sec car makes it even more special. I dont think people should argue like this, its very foolish. "my car is faster then yours" go to a course and proove it.

HAHA! last i checked Ford OWNS Alpha Romeo, this is definatly the funniest post I read, and youre a moderator for Alpha Romeo forums? hillarious...





Firstly you ignorant prick- It's Alfa Romeo and yes Ford owns as much of Alfa Romeo as Honda owns of General Motors NOTHING!!!!! Alfa Romeo is a part of the troubled FIAT SpA wihich is under the Umbrella of FIAT Auto Group. GM has a small stake in the FIAT Group and the FIAT Group an even smaller part of GM. So get your facts straight before humiliating yourself

sorry, confused it with Aston Martin. Dont have to talk sh*t, Im sure youre a real "big man" online arent you :rolleyes:

Anyone who puts down a mustang has obviously never driven one. You just dont get the same feeling driving a japanese tin can. I want to drive a REAL car not a weedeater on crack. And I have had no problems out of my 3.8 V6, 20+ year old Mustang.

Anyone who puts down a mustang has obviously never driven one. You just dont get the same feeling driving a japanese tin can. I want to drive a REAL car not a weedeater on crack. And I have had no problems out of my 3.8 V6, 20+ year old Mustang.

ive driven 3 of them

89 5.0 convertible (tight car)
94 v6 convertible (piece of shit)
99 v6 coupe (also a piece of shit)

if you buy a mustang buy the whole car ... dont skimp out and get the v6 ... moron.

I've driven a 89 Mustang GT, 01 GT, and a early 90's Cobra (or at least that was what it was badged)

pieces of shit

goes to show that duh-mestic owners think truck engines makes a car fast and capable of dominating all...

here's duh-mestic logic
truck engine = performance
bigger = fast

so using duh-mestic logic wouldn't a dump-truck engine be a fast performance engine?

I love it when the mullet-wearing freaks think they can walk all over my beater dodge... then when I spank their ass I do add insult to injury when I tell them it's the Mitsubishi 6G72

"my car can beat any import"
"oh yeah, can it beat a ferarri?"
"that's not what I mean, it can beat any jap car"
"really, care to race a nissan skyline and say that again?"

chew on that losers :loser:

sorry, confused it with Aston Martin. Dont have to talk sh*t, Im sure youre a real "big man" online arent you :rolleyes:

Oooops, looks like someone made an ass of themselves. I find it funny that you did the same thing to him in your post before that, but then he comes back and kicks it back down your misinformed throat and you start acting like a child with stupid petty insults.

Also, how did I make an ass of myself? The V6 Mustang has a meager 174 HP and has to push around 3,800 pounds. Sorry, but that equals a slow car that will never hit the 15s. Get real, you're a moron of you think otherwise.

Oooops, looks like someone made an ass of themselves. I find it funny that you did the same thing to him in your post before that, but then he comes back and kicks it back down your misinformed throat and you start acting like a child with stupid petty insults.

Also, how did I make an ass of myself? The V6 Mustang has a meager 174 HP and has to push around 3,800 pounds. Sorry, but that equals a slow car that will never hit the 15s. Get real, you're a moron of you think otherwise.


Just the fact that you are comparing your "rice rockets" to a v6 mustang is funny. The v6 mustang is NOT a sports car, and is meant for people who like the mustang look, but dont need the power. I would never drive a v6 stang, sorry. And before you make a dumb comment like "Sorry, but that equals a slow car that will never hit the 15s" go to the track and open up your horizons a little bit. Out of the box the lowest performing mustang still beats the highest performing jap car for the amount of $$ spent. I am talking about new cars out of the box, stock.

Im just wondering now, whats the sticker price on a new skyline? :smokin:

:rolleyes: Thats only because over there you don't get many decent Jap cars for cheap- I can buy an R33 GTR with maybe Exhaust and Air Filter mods for the same price as a new V6 Mustang, where I came from- if not even less- due to the Mustang not being sold there, and then mods would be cheaper for a Skyline than for a Mustang, so would parts- by a significant amount. So look outside of the deprived (car-wise) continent you live in and expand your horizons

So look outside of the deprived (car-wise) continent you live in and expand your horizons

Yeah, it sucks living in a country with the toughest emission laws. But then again, it's always up to America to compensate for other countries incompetence. So yeah, go to New Zealand to see some great domestic cars. :rolleyes: Wait, are New Zealand engineers even good enough to design a car? :grinno:

Yeah, it sucks living in a country with the toughest emission laws. But then again, it's always up to America to compensate for other countries incompetence. So yeah, go to New Zealand to see some great domestic cars. :rolleyes: Wait, are New Zealand engineers even good enough to design a car? :grinno:
New Zealanders are probably some of the most advanced in the field of Auto engineering after the Germans, if you look worldwide there are tons of New Zealanders involved in the field of Auto engineering The new Amphicar is a good example of this- however there is not the population base to set up an auto-manufacturing industry which isn't based around exports and any manufacturer set up would be unprofitable, so it makes sense to import from overseas :rolleyes:

Also have a looks at what Chris Amon turned the Toota Corolla, Corona and Camry for the Australia/NZ market into- quite a constrast handling wise to any other market

New Zealanders are probably some of the most advanced in the field of Auto engineering after the Germans, if you look worldwide there are tons of New Zealanders involved in the field of Auto engineering The new Amphicar is a good example of this- however there is not the population base to set up an auto-manufacturing industry which isn't based around exports and any manufacturer set up would be unprofitable, so it makes sense to import from overseas :rolleyes:

Also have a looks at what Chris Amon turned the Toota Corolla, Corona and Camry for the Australia/NZ market into- quite a constrast handling wise to any other market

I would love a link to a website explaining how New Zealand has made more advances in the auto industry than the US, Japan, and England. As of now I'm gonna call it BS until proven otherwise.

Never said it has more advances- just saying that they have some hugely talented Auto-engineers, that often branch out overseas, like I said- the new Amphicar is a good example of that, look up an article- there is a New Zealander- who attempted to design a car in NZ, but couldn't get enough dough to do it (At least I think it's the same guy- the 60's/70's were long ago) and also read up on how there were some parts developed by Cantebury UNiversity, in Christchurch- then book yourself a plane ticket to Auckland- test drive a kiwi made Corolla, Corona, Primera- or an Australian made Camry and then sompare it to your local product- you will see the contrast


Oh and I really don't need to mention the Millen family do I????

I wanted to say something in defense of the V6 Mustang...

I am 17 and I drive a 2001 oxford white V6. It is my baby and I worked very, very hard to afford it. I'm a girl and I'll admit that I didn't buy it for speed, I bought it for the name, the image and the history. I've had it for about 6 months and I haven't had any problems with it, which is good considering it's a Ford and it's 3 years old (I bought it used). Before I bought it I was driving a 2002 Camry SE V6, which my brother now drives.

I raced my brother in the Camry and my Mustang smoked him. Both cars are completely stock. I also raced my friend in her Nissan Maxima with several mods, and I won by a large margin. I don't race much and I didn't buy the car so I could race. I just wanted to say it's been a very good car to me and I love it very much, heads turn everywhere I go and people always compliment me on it.

I like American cars and I prefer Chevy to Ford, but I just think the Mustang is a better looking car than the Camaro, which is the other car I was considering buying. Regardless of the engine power the Mustang is always fun to drive and it's got more than enough power for me to do over 130 mph. I'm a little biased though because I think I would like the Mustang even if it couldn't accelerate past 75, just because it's such an attractive, powerful looking car.

"I also raced my friend in her Nissan Maxima with several mods, and I won by a large margin."

:bs:- Sorry, but you'll have to try harder than that

v6 mustangs suck, their hp per liter is almost 50, talk about engeneering...my honda makes 100 hp per liter, im not saying its all that matters, just saying that 3.8 v6 is crappy engine...

I also raced my friend in her Nissan Maxima with several mods, and I won by a large margin.

:bs: i cant hang with maximas and i smoke v6 mustangs all the time.

I have to call BS on some of the numbers people posted about v6 Mustang performance. A v6 Mustang and I can take off at the same time, I can stop and pick up some smokes, burn one, get back in my car and beat the v6 mustang to the next light :iceslolan
Out of all these models only 7 are faster than my car stock, how disapointing for those that think the mustang is meant for speed.
Look:
1964 Ford Mustang (289ci V8 w/4spd) 7.5 15.7
1966 Ford Mustang (289ci V8 Auto) 10.9 17.9
1967 Ford Mustang (390ci V8 w/4spd) 7.4 15.6
1971 Ford Mustang (351ci V8 w/4spd) 5.8 13.8
1973 Ford Mustang 351ci 8.9 16.3
1974 Ford Mustang II 4sp 14.2 18.8
1974 Ford Mustang II Auto 15.6 19.4
1975 Ford Mustang II (302ci V8 w/3spd) 9.6 17.5
1977 Ford Mustang II 302ci 11.3 17.7
1980 Ford Mustang (255ci) 11.8 18.5
1980 Ford Mustang Cobra (225ci) 11.3 18.4
1981 Ford Mustang M81 McLaren (2.3L Turbo) 9.7 17.3
1982 Ford Mustang GT 8.0 N/A
1984 Ford Mustang SVO 7.9 15.8
1985 Ford Mustang GT 7.2 15.9
1987 Ford Mustang GT 6.7 15.3
1988 Ford Mustang GT 6.4 15.0
1990 Ford Mustang LX 5.0 6.4 14.9
1991 Ford Mustang GT 7.3 15.6
1992 Ford Mustang LX 5.0 6.2 14.8
1993 Ford Mustang Cobra 5.9 14.5
1993 Ford Mustang GT (auto) 8.0 16.1
1994 Ford Mustang Cobra 6.9 15.3
1994 Ford Mustang GT 6.7 15.1
1995 Ford Mustang 3.8 9.9 17.31995 Ford Mustang Cobra R 5.2 13.8
1996 Ford Mustang Cobra 5.5 14.0
1998 Ford Mustang Cobra SVT 5.4 14.0
1999 Ford Mustang Cobra SVT 5.4 13.9
1999 Ford Mustang Convertible V6 8.6 16.5
1999 Ford Mustang GT 5.5 14.1
2001 Ford Mustang Cobra SVT 4.8 13.5
2003 Ford Mustang Cobra SVT 4.5 12.9

http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html

Just the fact that you are comparing your "rice rockets" to a v6 mustang is funny. The v6 mustang is NOT a sports car, and is meant for people who like the mustang look, but dont need the power. I would never drive a v6 stang, sorry. And before you make a dumb comment like "Sorry, but that equals a slow car that will never hit the 15s" go to the track and open up your horizons a little bit. Out of the box the lowest performing mustang still beats the highest performing jap car for the amount of $$ spent. I am talking about new cars out of the box, stock.

Im just wondering now, whats the sticker price on a new skyline? :smokin:

Good lord, you're arguing with me on points that I never made. I didn't come in here on a crusade for an import vs. the Mustang battle. You're right, the V6 Mustang is not a sports car it’s an image car which is exactly what I said in my first post. You're arguing with me and proving my point at the same time. I was making the point that there are a lot of Mustangs on the road, there is nothing special about them compared to a Mitsubishi Gallant. You should go read my first post again because you missed the point by a long shot. Also, stock you will never get a V6 Mustang to do the 1/4 mile in 15 seconds. I hate to tell you but low power to weight ratio does equal a slow car. I don't know what it is around here lately with people not understanding simple physics. For about three grand more than a Mustang V6 you can buy a similarly equipped Celica GT. Not only will it out perform the Mustang in the 1/4 mile it will sure out handle it as well.

You're the one that needs to "open your horizons." You seem to be pretty closed minded about imports. You haven't been here long enough to know that I like imports and domestics alike, also since there is such a blur in the line between the two that you can't always tell the difference. Personally I hate certain cars and the V6 Mustang is one of them. I don't hate a car because of where it is from or who manufactured it. If it is a good car then I will like it, but the V6 Mustang is not a good car. Who else these days would use a pushrod V6? It is a horrible engine.

Also, for my last point, I don't like the Skyline either and I never said I did so why did you bring it into the discussion? By the way, a Skyline would murder a V6 Mustang in every way.

i am not a fan of newer mustangs, nor am i a big fan of anything with a coffe can as a muffler, but i see a point to both arguements. First the mustangs these days are about american pride in autos, and a huge reminder of one of the best selling and most widely known cars in north america, and we as americans should take pride in an all american car like a stang. there are plenty of better cars out there than the stang but plenty of worse ones too (both american and jap). jap cars ar good because they are economical. they also take mods better than stangs. they last longer, but they cost a buttload more to fix. stangs of old are much better than new, and anything riced out just sucks thats a personal prefrence of mine.

I hate Japanese economy cars not jap cars in general. The v6 stang is far faster than an OLD jap econnomy car like they drive. If you new anything about American cars you would know that the 3.8 is one of the most longlasting v6 engines you can buy. By the way, look whos talking. Alfa Romeos are and will always be some of the junkiest Euro cars around. Of course you just thought it was good cause it was European right? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I hate the little jap cars that guys fix up (rice burners) They think they're cool, so i go out and teach them a lesson. I have a Pontiac Grand Prix GT with a 3.8L V6 and it seems to get the job done. With a few...extra things, i'm gonna try and show them what my car can do.

The V6 mustang does get the job done, but it doesn't exactly live up to the mustang's muscle reputation.

v6 mustangs suck, their hp per liter is almost 50, talk about engeneering...my honda makes 100 hp per liter, im not saying its all that matters, just saying that 3.8 v6 is crappy engine...

Hey Honda boy, If you don't start thinking in HP per pound, you're not gonna get anywhere. The V6 mustang is only crappy because it's not a V8 mustang, the way mustangs are supposed to be. Now, my Grand Prix has a 3.8L V6 in it, and it sure as hell, isn't crappy. It eats rice burners like yours for breakfast, and lunch. I'm startin to think that your just mad cause the 3.8 had twice the displacement as yours....

You guys post stuff with nothing to back it up, there is so much misinformation here its ridiculous. I get the feeling its because *most* of you have never owned a fast car (13sec & faster in 1/4), have never been to the track, never raced, but read magazines and come in here and "bench race". I hate to tell you guys but magazines are not a good source of accurate data. Their #s are skewed to hell, all influenced by advertisers and donators. Where are your signatures? I dont see many at all, and those I do see have no mention of track times/mods/hp figures, nothing. Now that that out of the way...


hangman - i am not a fan of newer mustangs, nor am i a big fan of anything with a coffe can as a muffler, but i see a point to both arguements. First the mustangs these days are about american pride in autos, and a huge reminder of one of the best selling and most widely known cars in north america, and we as americans should take pride in an all american car like a stang. there are plenty of better cars out there than the stang but plenty of worse ones too (both american and jap). jap cars ar good because they are economical. they also take mods better than stangs. they last longer, but they cost a buttload more to fix. stangs of old are much better than new, and anything riced out just sucks thats a personal prefrence of mine.

Did you just seriously say that a 4 cylinder will take better to mods than an 8 cylinder??? :screwy: mod for mod the bigger displacement engine will always gain much more per modification then a smaller displacement. Thats actually a big drawback of modifying imports, is that it takes SOO much work to make them fast.

Just for an example-

Lets say I strapped a turbo on a Mustang, and a turbo onto a civic, same size turbo @ 8psi. The mustang will be pushing around 400rwhp/500rwtq DETUNED. A stock mustang motor dynoes @ ~240rwhp/280rwtq to the wheels. thats a gain of over 150rwhp/200rwtq. Thats more power from a turbo than the civics engine is making as a whole. With the turbo a civic will maybe hit 200fwhp and probably just under 200 fwtq. Remember, this is just 8PSI. If you guys want dyno charts to prove these #s ^^ I can provide them.

"stangs of old are much better than new"

Ive owned 3 older mustangs and 1 newer one, I would LOVE to see the explanation for this genious statement.. :rolleyes:

Is the older mustang faster? More reliable? More comfortable? How about the engine... The new modulars use better gasket technology, MUCH better flowing heads (99+ models), also has MUCH better brakes, and just about everything else...This is what I mean by people making uninformed statements on this board, people read this crap and dont know any better than to believe it, then it just spreads.

yay- more idiots.........Firstly- jdanger You have a Pontiac Grand Grix GT- but you don't beat Jap Eco cars- you have Front wheel drive, mated to a pathetic 3.8 V6- maybe with a supercharger- maybe N/A- I used to murder Holden Commodore 3.8's- even the Supercharged models (Not so much murder as humbly beat for those ones)- with my bog-stock 1996 Hyundai Coupe FX-HS (Tiburon to you) and they were RWD- the same wieght as a Grand Prix- so the Grand Prix would be slower than a Commodore- due to the Pontiac being FWD- hence you can't kill crap in that pile of shit......The Yanks can't engineer an FWD Chassis to save themselves- except Chrysler- but they are years ahead of GM/Ford anyway.........Sheeit- the Buick 3.8 block was so awful, it even inspired Holden to make thier own DOHC engine..........Coming to a Cadillac CTS near you soon.........


skrow03gt I've probably had a hell of a lot more track experience than you- I've raced various Targas, track days and am even in the process of picking out my car that will take my racing up a notch........I've never drag-raced in my life- I'd fall asleep driving in a constant straight line after 200 meters yet alone 400

And will PLEASE stop Saying fucking Imports!!!!! For chrissake- an RB26DETT or 2JZGTE make an easy 400 flywheel horsepower with the most minor of mods- it takes bugger all effort to get the things up to 800-900 bhp- and can be done on the cheap if you are lucky enough not to live in the US and have access to the proper cars/expertise (I'll exclude Chrysler Corp from this- because as I said they are quite nicely advanced). Not every Japanese car is a Civic- in fact the USM Civic is made in the US- so it's a Domestic, same with the Sentra, Corolla, Protege and Accord

Or how about the SR20DET, 4G63 and 3SGTE- these'd be just as responsive to mods as a Mustang- as opposed to the above two which are more responsive.

You clearly know little about the cars that you speak of- so piss off and play with your god-damned Mustang (Mind you at least it's a V8- but still only has one cam)

WOW, he has NO experience in making a car fast, and keeps talking this garbage that makes NO SENSE. Show me a jap motor that can make 400 hp at the WHEELS with "minor mods", dont list motors that have POWERADDERS you fool, im talking N/A. And who rates hp at the crank?? Who cares what it makes at the crank, its what gets to the ground that counts. RB26DETT makes 260hp/280tq @ crank. Which I will say is damn impressive for an IMPORT, but thats nothing compared to a bigger displacement motor they make here in the USA.

And PLEASE show me an N/A import thats making real power, something running sub-11 sec 1/4 mile times and doing it cheaply?? It would cost $20,000+++ atleast to get to that level reliably, and it would not be a street car by any means. Get that crap out of your head, you are talking straight nonsense. You have never raced on a track that needs pure brute accelaration. The tracks you goto rely more on handling im guessing than brute power. Im sorry but in my street car, I want accelaration, who races around corners?? Thats not only retarted, but dangerous to everybody on the street. If you rally racing or stuff like that, I understand, but thats like .01% of people modifying their cars.

And you obviously know NOTHING about what youre talking about, telling me a OHV has 1 cam. Whats wrong with you, stop spreading crap you have no knowledge about. Let me break it down to you, OHV (Over Head Valve) = 2 heads = atleast 2 cams. A 2v mustang = 2 cams, 4v = 4 cams. I dont see how thats a factor in anything though, look at an LS1 pushrod motor, the thing is a beast, putting down 330hp to the wheels straight from the factory floor. It does this with 1 cam. Until you grow some balls, and gain real knowledge about what you are talking about, plz stop talking out of your a**, kthnx.

WOW, he has NO experience in making a car fast, and keeps talking this garbage that makes NO SENSE. Show me a jap motor that can make 400 hp at the WHEELS with "minor mods", dont list motors that have POWERADDERS you fool, im talking N/A. And who rates hp at the crank?? Who cares what it makes at the crank, its what gets to the ground that counts. RB26DETT makes 260hp/280tq @ crank. Which I will say is damn impressive for an IMPORT, but thats nothing compared to a bigger displacement motor they make here in the USA.

And PLEASE show me an N/A import thats making real power, something running sub-11 sec 1/4 mile times and doing it cheaply?? It would cost $20,000+++ atleast to get to that level reliably, and it would not be a street car by any means. Get that crap out of your head, you are talking straight nonsense. You have never raced on a track that needs pure brute accelaration. The tracks you goto rely more on handling im guessing than brute power. Im sorry but in my street car, I want accelaration, who races around corners?? Thats not only retarted, but dangerous to everybody on the street. If you rally racing or stuff like that, I understand, but thats like .01% of people modifying their cars.

And you obviously know NOTHING about what youre talking about, telling me a OHV has 1 cam. Whats wrong with you, stop spreading crap you have no knowledge about. Let me break it down to you, OHV (Over Head Valve) = 2 heads = atleast 2 cams. A 2v mustang = 2 cams, 4v = 4 cams. I dont see how thats a factor in anything though, look at an LS1 pushrod motor, the thing is a beast, putting down 330hp to the wheels straight from the factory floor. It does this with 1 cam. Until you grow some balls, and gain real knowledge about what you are talking about, plz stop talking out of your a**, kthnx.
Ummmm- You seem to know nothing about even your own car then- because last time I checked a 99+ Mustang V8 was an SOHC V8- which means just one camshaft over each cylinder bank and a DOHC on the Cobra models, so yeah- I don't know what the hell you are on about. I never tried to say OHV had 1 cam in the first place

If you want to see a 400whp+ motor with minor mods and minor expense- fellow AFer RazorGTR- can point you to some Skylines that make just that- in fact- I Think that sounds just like his GTR...Interesting- same thing with Supra motors (2JZ's) it'd be as simple as exhaust, Air filter, Front mount, BOV and a chip- all are more or less bolt ons- and can get an easy 70 whp

I like to measure hp/Kw at the crank- simply because thats the data I have on most stock cars- It shows the true power of the engine- Most AWD cars lose a significant amount of power through the powertrain- this is very true of the Subaru WRX- which loses as much as 50 hp- by the time the power reached the wheels- but not so much the case of the ATESSA system of Nissan- which is years ahead of it's time.........

Where did you get those figures for the RB26??? Sounds like you pulled them out of your ass- the R34 Skyline GTR actually dynos at about 320-330 whp- it has been proven dyno after dyno- and that is stock- Nissan quote 276 bhp for the car simply because there is the Gentlemans agreement in Japan that says the Auto-makers cannot advertise a car at above 276 bhp (Do not ask me why they chose to do this- because I have no idea) apparently (I cannot confirm this) The Evolution is also severely underated.......

There are all motor Hondas pulling impressive times in the States- 8's and 9's- they are probably not street cars- but I doubt you could street-drive an 8/9 second muscle car either- especially in the rain.

And the Japanese don't even bother with cars that don't use Turbos and why shouldn't they???? Turbos clearly are the replacement for displacement- for example- in New Zealand (Where I come from) there are Evo's, Integras, RX7's and Skylines running- low-high 9's in some of the most basic build-up's most of them wouldn't have cost over US$20,000 to build- including the purchase of the car- about 80% of them are street legal- and also street registered (With Regos like RSLRCN, DOCILE, RIPUUP and GDZLR) - and these are all results from last season- the new one is about to kick off and I have little doubt that most of them will be in the 8's- considering that most of them are actually being turned into proper drag cars now and the competition is hotting up. Don't even get me started on the 7 second Rotaries in Oztrallia


There are also two GTR's one runing 8.55 (w/Nitrous) and one running 8.69 (w/o Nitrous) and BOTH of them are on street tyres- yes you heard right- not using slicks- and the cars are only putting out 900-odd whp- and when I left they were both street registered- I know the 8.55 second one still is- I"m not sure about the other one though. But I don't particuarly like Skylines or drag-racing in the first place- Euro cars and track racing is what I go for

As for racing around corners WTF- Who races around corners???- errr......Michael Schumacher, Marcus Gronholm, Greg Murphy, Frank Biela, Gabriel Tarquini, me.......???

A Targa is the same thing as a rally- closed public roads, marshalls and generally the works- there is also, in Italy a hugely vast number of racing tracks that you can race on for sweet bugger all- I wouldn't dream of doing something like I do on the track, on the street- whether it be rounding corners or flooring it in a straight line- that shit is dangerous and the domain of silly children with small penises. I think what you are trying to say is that you don't race on road courses because

(a) You can't drive for shit
(b) Your car has bugger all handling capability

The first thing I do when I get a car that I'm gonig to race seriously is brakes and suspension, followed by getting a Ferrari-esque noise, followed by bolt on performance, followed by Internals- power is down the bottom of my list- when you are track racing- if you don't have decent brake/suspension- then you may as well simply not bother- that's the reality of the matter- Track racing is extremely enjoyable- especially a tight track- Rest assured- when I do need some torque for a corner exit- my BMW gives me bucketloads of it.

It's as simple as this- any idiot can tweak an engine and go fast in a straight line- building a track monster is not only harder- but a fuckload more rewarding

If you want, I can close this thread, if you so wish not to embarras yourself further........

"Ummmm- You seem to know nothing about even your own car then- because last time I checked a 99+ Mustang V8 was an SOHC V8- which means just one camshaft over the cylinder head- and a DOHC on the Cobra models, so yeah- I don't know what the hell you are on about. I never tried to say OHV had 1 cam in the first place"

-This is starting to get funny, have you never seen a V8? Obviously not, heres a newsflash for you though, it has two heads. AGAIN 2v (SOHC) = 2 cams, 4v (DOHC) = 4 cams. Whew... there is lesson #1...

"If you want to see a 400whp+ motor with minor mods and minor expense- fellow AFer RazorGTR- can point you to some Skylines that make just that- in fact- I Think that sounds just like his GTR...Interesting- same thing with Supra motors (2JZ's) it'd be as simple as exhaust, Air filter, Front mount, BOV and a chip- all are more or less bolt ons- and can get an easy 70 whp"

-I said N/A, I should have spelled it out, im sorry. It means Naturaly Aspirated = ALL MOTOR. If those engines are so great, why do the they need a poweradder to make power?? Not only does that make it heavier in the nose, it makes it less reliable due to more parts likely to fail. You also dont have many choices with the motor. Lets say you have a 400hp turbo motor, and I have a 400hp N/A motor. Not only will the N/A motor be faster & more reliable, but I still have the option of turbo charging my N/A motor and jump straight to 600? hp. Another tidbit of information for you, peak hp/tq numbers dont mean too much, you have to look at the power curve on a dyno sheet. Thats ANOTHER drawback of a smaller displacement motor, is that its dyno graph will look like a mountain, no hp/tw down low, and rising sharply to "peak" at its hp/tq rating. If you look at a V8 dyno graph, it will be pretty much flat, meaning you are at close to peak power throughout your whole powerband. Who cares if you make 600hp @ 8000 rpm, if youre only making 150 @ 2500 rpm. I dunno about you but I spend most of my driving in the lower rpms, and race in higher rpms. This way w/a V8 youre fast both low & high rpm. Thats why you never see a mustang/camaro or any other v8 motored car sitting at a stoplight bouncing off their redline to try to get a descent launch. I launch off idle and have GOBS of hp/tq available throughout my rpm range. That was lesson #2, hope youre paying attention...

There are all motor Hondas pulling impressive times in the States- 8's and 9's- they are probably not street cars- but I doubt you could street-drive an 8/9 second muscle car either- especially in the rain.

-There is more crap you just pulled out of your ass. The FASTEST all motor Honda in the world runs mid 10s, and has about $25,000 in the motor alone. There is no Hondas in the 8s and 9s you fool. I dont have the guys name handy, but I can get a link for you to check out the car if you want. It would be a nightmare to try to get a FWD car to the 8s, almost impossible, just for the fact that when you launch simple physics will tell you that weight transfer occurs and weight goes to the REAR tires, and tries to lift the front tires off the ground. Thats lesson #3, youre learning alot! :rofl:


Im out of time to disect the rest of the pile of nonsense you left in the last post, please, especially as a moderator, do these people a favor and only speak about things that you have experience with. Otherwise they read your crap and actually believe it, and go around spreading information that is not accurate. Thnx, hope you learned something!

Also there are probably a fiar few Hondas in the 8's and 9's in the States- being the vast Country it is- Yes, it doesn't take a genius that there are two Cylinder banks in a V8- but my point is for each Cylinder bank you only have one camshaft- controlling both both inlet AND exhaust for each bank- hence more or less your engine is controlled by one camshaft- as opposed to the MUCH more efficient 2 (or 4 if you so must put it your way- in your situation- mine is different I have an Inline 6)

Like I said0 the Japanese D-O-N-T B-O-T-H-E-R W-I-T-H A-L-L M-O-T-O-R S-E-T-U-P-S Why should they??? Only Honda have ever been dedicated to not using Turbos- and the results are always that the Hondas end up with a Turbo in the end if they are going to be drag-raced. Turbos quite simply are the replacement for displacement- seeing as they more or less increase the displacement- with out actually making the engine better (Think about how a Turbo works before you say something retarded) If we will use 400hp as our benchmark then so be it- it depends really on what kind of motor you are using- if it's an RB26 or 2JZ- you won't be that far from stock output- the car will run fine- the Japanese are great at building reliable technology- the GTR will go to about 600 hp before a stronger gearbox is required- and 1000hp on stock internals- but most serious racers replace internals well before then- but you can daily drive a 500-600 hp GTR day to day without any real worries of reliability- A LOT of Japanese/New Zealand/Australian people do it- and still eat V8's- you'd need 100 Octane or higher petrol- but if you live in Japan- you can buy it straight off the pumps. Now if you were building a smaller 3SGTE or SR20DET motor to 600 hp- you'd be fucked- but they are not meant as drag motors- they are optimised for road course and drift. Although an old-school FJ20 can show the V8 boys how it's done- due to it's simplicity.

Oh and I'm aware Peak hp numbers mean little- as do torque numbers.

I do like some low range- but I do perfer the top range torque power to increase as I go up to my much higher-than-an-OHV-V8 redline- This is why I found a Boxster much preferable to an S2000- the S2000 comes to life when VTEC engages- which last I checked is the 4-5000 rpm range- the Boxster is brawny when low down- but gets almost as tough as an S2000 as it peaks- But a Kansas-flat torque curve is way overated IMHO


As for the All motor Honda- sorry I was confused with another one BUT- you are still wrong- Stephan Papadakis- in the States- ran a high 7 in his FWD H22A (Prelude motor) Civic- (but I bleive he has gone TT NSX now) there is also an NSX that runs low 7's- I think that's Adam Saruwatari- I'm pretty sure he's on my High Octane 4 DVD.but there is some 9 second runners in Australia/New Zealand- there is Ronnie Lim in his B18C Turbo'd Integra- who runs an 9.89 (www.performancecar.co.nz/raceresults) and is headed to take back the Australasian FWD record from 9.76 second CRX Del Sol. Both two cars are in what I'd call a mild state of tune. Besides- all you'd need was some Ultra hard rear Suspension to keep your FWD car grounded......Shouldn't be too hard

Papadakis' car is herehttp://www.streettuners.com/papadakis/stephan_papadakis_wic02/page1.htm


But like I said- Who gives a shit how fast one can go in a straight line?????


anyway......I'm bored of you, I'm off to find someone who actually knows something.......Thread closed