Lower Intake Manifold Gasket Replacement

I have a question in regards to cleaning...I am changing the lower intake manifold gasket and when I got the lower intake manifold off, I found that the holes that lead to the pistons (?) are loaded with crud...now this is my first venture working within an engine, all my work to this point has been external...so I'm not sure what all the proper names are for everything.

This is what I'm looking at...this is where the manifold mounts...that way we are all on the same page
http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx13/peneguy102309/Lower_Inktake_Surface_2_zps4ce47ed2.jpg (http://s737.photobucket.com/user/peneguy102309/media/Lower_Inktake_Surface_2_zps4ce47ed2.jpg.html)

And this is the crud I was talking about...
http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx13/peneguy102309/Lower_Inktake_Surface_3_zps1e563ccd.jpg (http://s737.photobucket.com/user/peneguy102309/media/Lower_Inktake_Surface_3_zps1e563ccd.jpg.html)

Now, should I leave it or is there a safe way to clean them out without the risk of messing something up?

if i were you i would get a jug of solvent a stiff bristle brush not a wire brush!!! and a bucket and let the manifold soak for a little while and use the brush to remove the CRUD..... but with that much crud this looks more like a lot of Blow-BY past the piston rings but that's another animal altogether.....:banghead: but like i said soak the manifold in solvent try and clean as much of the crud as possible and re-install after you get it put back together i would get a compression test done ( Just because with that much build up it looks like oil is getting past the piston rings).

But like all mechanics say clean parts are nicer to handle...and gaskets will seal better

Hope i helped:2cents:

Mustang, maybe I wasn't clear enough, as I don't exactly know what all these parts are called.The pictures there aren't the lower intake manifold, but the engine (heads(?), I'm not sure) where the lower intake manifold mounts...I already have the lower intake manifold out in these pictures and what you see here is still in the car.

If it is from "blow-by" what exactly does that mean and what will I have to do to fix it?

Thanks for your :2cents:

UPDATE: After searching and reading, the picture is of the heads, which I suppose to clean those would require removing the heads, and I don't think I really want to do that right now. I think I'm just going to clean the intake manifold really well and button it all back up.

That is the cylinder head that you have pictured.

I just replaced my manifold gaskets (upper and lower) and mine looked almost like yours.

pic of mine is attached.

Those ports go into your cylinders, I personally would be careful on making sure debris does not fall into the cylinders when cleaning the surface for the new gasket.

I had my kid hold a shop vac by where I was cleaning the surface and move it as I moved, I also used a plastic scrapper, don't use a metal scraper to clean the surface.

I did not try to clean the ports out for fear of getting crap into the cylinders.

Hopefully other can provide more info for you.

Good luck with your project.

Yeah, I figured it was just best to let sleeping dogs lie...unfortunately it wasn't until AFTER I had cleaned the surface that I thought about using my shop-vac:banghead:...but I was extremely cautious in not getting any debris down into the holes...it took quite a while of careful scraping. Thanks for your input.

If you have completed your project yet make sure you clean your EGR ports on the lower intake manifold, I did NOT do mine and it appears that I may be regretting it.

I was just thinking...is there a set amount of time I have to wait (because of RTV and thread sealant) once I get everything put back together before adding fluids and starting up? The back of the Utra-Black bottle says sets in 24 hrs...do I need to wait that long?

You should be able to start re-filling your coolant without an issue, same if you changed your oil.

As for the actual starting, I did wait overnight till I started the engine and bring it up to temp, no leaks presented themselves and just had to top off the coolant once, Although it is not being driven for any distance until I get an idle/timing/backfire issue resolved.

Waiting can't hurt but may not be necessary, sorry I can't give a more definitive answer.

My EGR ports were a mess...I took the whole lower intake manifold out and soaked it in purple power for about an hour then scrubbed it with a nylon brush (or whatever those things are made out of...not a wire one), let it soak for a little longer, and then rinsed it thoroughly and dried it with my air compressor and sun.

I ended up running out of daylight anyway, so I suppose it will set-up overnight. I need to replace both air-filters and fill-up with fluids, so I guess it will be set-up enough.

Hopefully you can get your problem solved and hopefully I don't run into a similar one.

That engine does look a bit of a mess. As Mustang Driver says, it looks like piston blow-by ... or it could be stopped up engine air filter, or too much EGR, or even a messed up PCV system. I would be inclined to rebuild the engine ... or, at least, remove the heads for a look at cylinder walls. But that's a different level of ball-game!

Yeah, I've about reached my limit right now on money I can sink into it...I would love to dig in further, but just can't right now.

I hope everything works out ok and goes back together easy

I'm about to replace all my gaskets and hold-down around the intake manifold and front cover ... been about 100k miles since I've had the engine open for service and it wants some more service! I'm expecting my passages and EGR jets to be fairly clean due to engineering changes I made in intake area. May change out the water pump this time.
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375K miles on car. I (lightly) rebuilt the engine @215K miles.

Well so far it seems as though everything is working fine...No more of that jerking junk at red lights and stop signs. It seems to idle much smoother as well and I may be crazy, but it had a hard downshift from 2nd to 1st (?), when I was about to come to a stop, that seems to have stopped. I still have to change the transmission fluid in a couple days or so and hoping that will help my other transmission problem of not going into OD...I also ordered an OBDII scanner that can hopefully give me the stored transmission codes that I get (which AutoZone didn't give me).

I replaced that PCV line, cleaned the EGR ports extremely well, and changed the air filter, so hopefully that will help with the "blow-by" you guys mentioned, until I can afford to dig back in and go further. What exactly would I need to be looking for on the cylinder walls you mentioned?

You will find some information on the subject in various books such as Haynes, etc. ... but in general you look for "vertical scoring" , hopefully none .. or none too deep: a "ridge" that's not too pronounced ... a "ridge" is left at the top of the cylinder wall that is not worn by the top piston ring, the top ring can't reach quite all the way up the wall ... leaving the ridge (usually about 1/4" or so) that may see almost no wear: And not too much "smoothness" on the walls ... it seems a contradiction; we want the walls smooth, but not so slick that the rings make very little contact. This is easily corrected by a couple of passes with a special set of stones.
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A cylinder wall wears in a cone shape normally ... with the largest diameter at the top, just below the ridge. Its best to re-bore the block to a larger piston size if the wear is great. But if the engine oil has been well maintained ... an engine can be "rebuilt" quite successfully by removing the lower corner of the ridge (so a new ring won't bump into it), using a tool made for that purpose .... honing the cylinder walls, cleaning the piston ring grooves and piston tops of build-up and replacing the rings. The rings can sometimes be reused, but they should be replaced in their exact location. (I have never reused rings.) My '99 Winny will likely reach 500K miles on its original pistons.

You did a great job on the lower intake manifold project.
As for all that tar in the intake.....it is a combination of the oil vapor from the PCV system and the carbon from the EGR system coming together.
It is normal (though messy).

1999 and 2000 are the worst years for the oil in the intake issue.
There is a replacement front valve cover available that has an improved baffle under he PCV valve to reduce the oil droplets being drawn into the PCV line.
Here is a link that shows what I'm talking about very well.
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

The other advice that I will offer is to replace the PCV valve using a genuine Motorcraft part.
This will ensure that you are getting the correct flow rate under various conditions.
A PCV valve is much more than just a 1 way valve.
The spring inside causes the opening to vary under different amounts of vacuum.
At idle....you have the maximum amount of vaccum.
Under hard acceleration, you have the least amount of vacuum.
Understanding this.....it is easy to understand that, with the same size opening, you will have the maximum flow through the PCV valve at Idle.....most vacuum.
The spring inside the PCV valve lets the movable part.....pull up and make the opening smaller at higher vacuum, which limits the flow at higher vacuum levels.

All that said......even with the improved front valve cover and the correct PCV valve, you will STILL get a fair amount of oil drawn into the intake.....it happens with all engines.
However these things will reduce the amount from what you are getting now.

Part of the issue with the upper intake was that the bushings on the bolts break down with extended exposure to oil, the same oil discussed above and that caused the tar buildup.
The new bolts come with improved bushings that are supposed to hold up to the oil exposure better.

I would not worry about tearing into your engine deeper than you already have.
I do not suspect that you have oil leakage past the piston rings or valve seals as you don't mention excessive oil consumption.
I think it is the normal issue with the valve cover and maybe PCV valve as mentioned in the article in the link above.

The other thing that I will mention is the IMRC links.
The nylon clips can fall off and leave 1 or both banks not connected.
The IMRC (Intake Manifold Runner Control) is best compared with the 4 barrel carburetors from years ago.
With a "4 barrel"....under hard acceleration, the 2nd 2 barrels would open and give you more power.
With the IMRC system, under hard acceleration, the IMRC will open those plates that you saw in your intake manifold.
The plates are normally CLOSED and only open for a short time to give you a power boost.
The length of the run in the intake also comes into play here.
If the clips come off, you have no control over the bank(s) of cylinders that are now disconnected.
This can cause issues if the plates are open when they should not be.
Also, the computer (aka PCM) is trying to balance your engine with different air input to each bank of cylinders if only 1 set of plates is working (1 bank open and 1 bank closed).
You can purchase replacement clips at the auto part store or dealership.
If you have to have them disconnected from the IMRC actuator until you can get them repaired, it is best to fasten them CLOSED as this is the position that will give you the best performance and fuel economy.
You just won't have that power boost when you romp on the accelerator.

As a side note.....if you look at my pictures, my Windstar was a 1996......and the PCV valve on the Windstar up through the 1998 model year was in the rear valve cover, with the breather in the front valve cover.
The 1999 and newer Windstar has the PCV valve in the FRONT valve cover......so don't become concerned if you see that mine is backward from what you have.

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, when I did the lower intake, I had went ahead and bought the Dorman Valve Cover repair kit so it comes with the Dorman PCV valve...not Motorcraft. So while I was in there I went ahead and did that as well...actually it is the reverse, I had planned on doing the isolator bolts and then decided to just go a little farther and do the lower intake manifold gasket as well. That being said, as I mentioned earlier, the difference in running performance (especially at idle) is amazing.

I haven't noticed any oil consumption or at least not that I can tell. I have only had the van for about 2000 miles or so, so this was the first oil change I have done. I will monitor it throughout this next 3,000 and see if there is any consumption. I had also gotten a Blackstone labs kit, but I decided to just wait until the oil change after this one (because there still may be a little coolant left from the lower intake removal) to send it in. That way I can make sure I get as accurate a reading as possible, and that what I did is working and not leaking.

I don't currently plan on going any farther unless I have to. I am just going to wait and see what happens right now. If necessary and the oil consumption becomes drastic then I will proceed farther.

As far as the IMRC goes, I actually bought those little bushings and replaced the front side (or left side I guess) but the whole metal rod is missing on the back one so I just pushed it closed and left it.

I'm hoping the gas mileage will improve after all this as well...we'll just have to wait and see.


OH...I would like to thank you for your advice in regards to getting a "BEAM" type torque wrench for the job as I recall you had a problem with your "click" type breaking a bolt. I had never used a "beam" type, but I will never use anything else. I feel they are MUCH more accurate. Although it did take me a while to find one that could go down to the required 44 and 89 in/lbs (I think it was). After searching about 6 stores (AutoZone, Advance, Oreilly, Napa, Walmart, ACE Hardware) I finally found one at ACE. Napa wanted $150 for theirs (not happening) and none of the other stores had one that would go that small. Luckily ACE had one that was in ft/lbs, but it read from 0-75 ft/lbs. And using Newton Meters (NM) is much easier than in/lbs: 5NM is much easier than 44 in/lbs as well as 10NM vs. 89 in/lbs. I don't know if all "beam" torque wrenches have NM on them, but I recommend if anyone is planning on buying one get one with the NM scale as well.

I use beam-type torque wrenches also ... but click-type have their place, like when you are working "blind" and cannot see the wrench gradients.

I use the click style torque wrenches, the $10 ones from Harbor Freight. If they're not exact, they're close enough for this kind of work (for me at least). I doubt being off a couple of inch pounds here or there is going to be fatal.

The Beam style seems to be best for me at the lower torque values......but I have a "clicker" one for higher values.

In reading the last message from backyard.......is it correct that you have the IMRC actuator connected to only 1 bank of cylinders?
If so....I would recommend that you have BOTH disconnected and fastened CLOSED.
This will give you the best performance and fuel economy.
1 bank open and the other bank closed is not so good.

Otherwise, it looks like you are doing all the right things.
Just a reminder....it is normal to have SOME oil into the intake.......in any engine.
I know on the older windstars, and from reading other posts.....maybe the 1999 and newer also......it is normal to get some oil running out of the throttle body into the big flex air intake hose.
Messy, but that is due to the location of the PCV line entry point.
Even with the Motorcraft PCV valve, a low evaporation type of synthetic oil and a catch can in the PCV hose........I STILL got the oil running out the throttle body into the flex hose....with no significant oil consumption.
That tells me that it is just the nature of the beast.....and not something to worry about.....not much more that one can do without disrupting the PCV flow which would cause much more serious problems.
Watch for any signs of this oil dripping down onto something important......like the Neutral Safety Switch....etc

Another thing that happened over time......the flexible hoses for the PCV line on my '96 cracked (elbow on top of the throttle body) and got soft and collapsed (flexible part near the PCV valve.
I replaced these 2 parts using bulk hose that I bought at the auto part stores.
For the elbow....I got a packet of 2 of them in the "Help" parts (dorman brand) at Autozone. They were labeled for something else (don't remember what now) and were more heavy duty than the original, which was fine with me.
You can inspect for collapsed hose at idle, which is when the vacuum is at its highest.
A collapsed hose will limit and/or completely cut off the PCV flow, which you do NOT want to do.

Somewhere in my pictures is a picture of the valve lifters with the valve covers off.
That picture was taken when the vehicle was 13 years old with over 229K miles on it.....and was the only time the valve covers were off.
I replaced the valve cover gaskets when I took that picture.
It doesn't get much cleaner inside an engine than that.
A healthy PCV flow is a critical part of keeping things clean (sludge free) inside the engine.

12ounce: You make a good point about working "blind"...I didn't think of that, so I suppose there is a time for them

scubacat: Yeah, it doesn't seem like a couple of in/lbs one way or the other will hurt, but I suppose I am what you would call a perfectionist, so for me, I like to get as close as possible...Otherwise it will bug me.

wiswind: You are correct about the IMRC...I guess tomorrow I will go and try and disconnect that left actuator and stick it closed. When you say "fasten" it closed, how exactly do you go about fastening it, or do you just push it closed and leave it?

As far as oil goes, I didn't seem to really have all that much in the upper or lower intake manifolds or the throttle body and intake flex hose...My main problem was all that build up in the cylinder heads and the EGR ports were a mess. I swapped over to high mileage synthetic though...Any recommendations of a good oil filter for next oil change...I just used a Motorcraft filter this time.

I don't have first-hand experience with the type of IMRC actuator that you have.
1996-through-1998 used a separate vacuum actuator for each bank.
The main thing is....to have them stay closed if they are not working correctly.
Someone with a 1999 and newer windstar should be able to give you a better pointer for how to keep them closed.

Oil filters, there are LOTS of opinions on what filter is "best".
I like the FRAM Ultra XG3600.
The Bosch Distance Plus D3422
YES, the Motorcraft is a very good filter also.
The 2 that I mention above are excellent filters that are available at Walmart and other mainstream stores.

For oil, unless you have high consumption, which you don't....I would STAY with the viscosity that is recommended.
I was using 0W-20 in my '96 (a TSB from FORD updated the manual which said 5W-30 and added the lighter oil as acceptable).
Some folks recommend going heavier as your vehicle gets older....and I don't agree with that.
Using a 0W-20 or 0W-30 in place of 5W-xx does not mean that the oil is "thinner" at operating temperature.....it means that it does not THICKEN as much as temperature goes down.....so it is not at thick when it is cold.
The Mobil 1 0W-20 has about the best super cold flow of any oil that you can buy.
Again, this is a oil that is easy to find (unless they are sold out).
I have never tried to push the oil change interval.
My personal opinion......I like 5K miles or 6 months, whichever comes first.
Short trip driving is the hardest on oil, and I do a lot of that.
We have had LOTS of sub-zero weather this winter, so cold flow has been on my mind a lot.

I checked the IMRC valves (or whatever the proper term may be) today, the right side one is still closed from when I closed it after the repair, so they seem to stay closed on their own. I doubt they ever open anyway, cause I never romp on the accelerator; I read in one of these threads that they only activate at around 3,000+ rpms, and I don't think I ever cross that point. But if need-be, I was thinking I might could get some of that "ultra-black" silicone I used on the intake manifold gasket and put a drop between the set-screw and connecting point to "set" it in place.

I used Mobil 1 5w-20 Synthetic High Mileage. If I understand what you are saying correctly, the first number is relative to the thickness at colder temperatures...I live in Georgia and it really doesn't get that cold here, especially not sub-zero. It has been a cold winter, which for here is down into the teens and rarely the single digits, but today we were in the 70s, so I think winter is almost finished here.

I'll give one of those other filters a try next go around. Thanks.

OK, I need some help...I have been checking my fluids religiously since I replaced the manifold and changed the oil, making sure that nothing is leaking. Yesterday I noticed some oil dripping from what I think is the PCV valve, where it connects to the intake manifold. I thought I had pushed it too far up onto the intake manifold port causing it to leak, so I pulled it off and cleaned it and put it back on snuggly...today I checked it again and it's dripping oil again.

So first question: what exactly is the PCV valve?...I have been under the impression that it is the hose that runs from the front valve cover to the upper intake manifold. But when I look for the part at AutoZone and O'reilly, PCV valve brings up something different and the PCV tubing is that little small "U" shaped hose on the upper intake manifold. Alldata shows the hose on the front valve cover, and I guess the valve is within the end of that hose?

Second question: That is a brand new hose from the Dorman Valve Cover Repair Kit...should I replace it or can I zip-tie it to cinch it down on the intake manifold port? If I were to replace that whole hose, what is the part called for the whole thing?

Usually the PCV system is designed so that two hoses are used.

ONE that has the PCV valve itself somewhere in it ... this is connected to the crankcase/valve-cover on one end and feeds vapor (and oil mist) into the intake around the throttle body.

Well this vapor and stuff that is sucked out of the crankcase area must be replaced by fresh air, ....that's where hose #TWO comes in. It is usually attached near the fresh air filter and feeds the crankcase on the opposite side of the PCV valve somewhere.

OK, so that would make hose ONE the hose on the front (left) valve cover which contains the valve itself...hose TWO would be the hose that runs from the back (right) valve cover to the flex hose where the MAF sensor and air filter is?

So can I put a zip-tie on it, or should I replace the whole thing? I still have the old one that I took off, I could put it back on and see what happens...

AND if it's dripping oil, does that indicate that there is too much oil coming through? Or does this "oil mist" add up to enough to drip?

Yes ... on your hose ID's. You expect oil to be in the PCV (#1) hose ... but in the #2 hose, I would not expect much wetness ... oil or otherwise. Oil in #2/vent hose would indicate some serious ring blow-by ... or something.
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I don't know why you want a tie-rap involved? Support? OK .... but both hoses should be free of leaks.

I don't know why you want a tie-rap involved? Support?

I guess in my mind the hose isn't tight enough where it connects to the upper intake manifold, which is causing the leak, so if I take a zip-tie and cinch it down tightly around the rubber hose fitting it will tighten it up, preventing leakage. Unless, of course, the leak is coming from somewhere around the intake manifold that I can't see...

Sounds like you could use some new hoses ... I need some myself.

It's brand new! I just put it on last week.

Well...I decided I was going to try and put the old PCV hose back on, but after looking at it, figured it was too dirty and changed my mind. Cleaned up the new one and put it back on AGAIN and it's been three days and no leakage. Not sure what the problem was...

I'm back with more if someone would please help me...

After doing the intake manifold (both upper and lower gaskets), the isolator bolt fix, new front valve cover, new DPFE sensor, new plugs and wires, new PCV valve, new air filters, and I think that's all...my van ran perfect for two weeks. I had drained the coolant when I did the lower intake manifold and put in some cleaner and distilled water and had been letting it run through the van. I don't hardly drive the van as I work from home and if I go to the store, it is only about five miles round trip. So I left it in for a few days which probably only added up to about an hour to an hour and a half drive time. The weather was supposed to get below freezing one night so I decided I better go ahead and clean it out and put in the coolant. I drained out the remaining bit and then disconnected the lines at the rear heater core, the thermostat, and that quick connect on the lower intake manifold. After flushing it throughout really well, I put it all back together and added 2 gallons of coolant and checked over the next couple of days adding water as needed.

The problem started right after that...now my van idles/runs rough. It shutters/wobbles/vibrates really hard at idle and you can feel it throughout acceleration. It spark knocks too, but I think it has done that since I purchased it. Putting an OBDII scanner on it, I only get P0174...I have sprayed EVERYTHING down with brake cleaner three times...I've checked the EGR valve, by putting a hose on it and sucking and blowing, to make sure it is working and it seems to be functioning properly. I noticed a lot of oil in the new PCV valve and read somewhere that that is an indication that the metering device is not working properly, so I put the old one back on...same thing. I've checked all the plugs, and they all seem to be firing. I've checked the coil pack by ohming it out and it ohms out perfectly. I've replaced the MAF sensor...luckily manager at AutoZone told me I could bring it back if it didn't work. I just finished doing a compression test and the highest cylinder had 200psi and the lowest 190psi...well within the allowed range according to AllData. I've quadruple checked every vacuum hose to make sure they are all plugged in and correct.

I have put some B12 in the tank just in case it is a plugged injector. I had about a 1/2 tank in when I put the B12 in and now I'm down to about 1/4 and no change...

The only other thing I can think of is the catalytic converter is rattling. At least I think it's that and not the heat shield. When it's rattling, I can take a wooden bat and push up on it pretty hard and it will stop, but I would think that if it was the heat shield it wouldn't take hardly any force to make the rattle stop...

I have been doing KOER (Key On Engine Running) and KOEO (Key On Engine Off) tests for about a week or so and I have been getting the P0174 and P1408 (EGR flow out of self test range) until today...I got a P116 (Engine Coolant Temp Sensor out of self test range), P1157 (Lack of H02S22 Switches--Sensor indicates lean), and P1151 (Lack of H02S21 Switches--Sensor Indicates lean). I haven't looked these up, but am about to.

Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated...I'm at my wits end and my wife keeps telling me to sell it.

UPDATE: Alldata has this for the P1151 (nothing that I've found for P1157)codes:
Investigate the following items as potential sources of HO2S contamination:
1. Use of unapproved silicon sealers
2. Fuel contaminated by silicon additives
3. Excessive oil burning
4. Glycol (antifreeze) leaking internally in the engine
5. Lead contaminated fuel
6. Short drive cycles in cold weather
7. Use of unapproved cleaning agents

Anyone know what an "unapproved cleaning agent" would be and where it would have to be used to trigger this code?

All the silicons and sealers I used were the exact ones I was supposed to use.

Maybe there is a leak somewhere in the coolant system and it is leaking internally? I guess I'll do a pressure test to see...

There's a good chance you upset the rearward PCV hose ... or any other vacuum hose on the firewall side of the engine.

The rear PCV hose is only a hose right? It doesn't have any "working parts" like the front one does it? Maybe I did damage it somehow. Whatever it is, the problem seems to be getting worse...

When performing a coolant system pressure test, what exactly am I looking for and what am I supposed to do exactly? When I got home I put it on and gave it a go, but the engine of course was warm from me just driving it. I pumped it up to the "15-16 lbs." mark and let it sit...it didn't take long and the pressure started to slowly drop. I started the engine because in another forum on here someone said that the needle would pulse if it was a head gasket, but the needle doesn't move at all...however, it slowly climbed back up to about 16 lbs. again...Shut the van off and it's been sitting for about 30 minutes now and the pressure is down to 9 lbs, but I think that is from the engine cooling off...I've read other things that say to test a cold engine so I guess I'll try again in the morning...

Well....just got back from Ford and they said it is a "base engine" problem. Without tearing into it--for $400 up to the cost of a new engine--they can't give me anymore information. So....


The problem started after I did a coolant flush, so I know that is the cause of the problem. My guess is that I flushed the engine too soon after running and the engine was too warm still and something has cracked or warped. What can warp or crack from flushing an engine too soon that could cause the engine to run so roughly? At idle up to about 1500 rpms the whole inside shakes...EVERYTHING rattles. I noticed today that driving about 55 mph creates a really deep bass sound that almost hurts your ears...the only thing I can think to compare it to is when I used to let the back windows down just a little in my car and it would mess up the pressure or something inside the car causing a really deep bass sound.

I have done a compression test and it checked out good...I did a coolant system test and the van leaked down about a pound an hour. I started the van with the pressure tester connected and the needle stayed perfectly still...no pulsing to indicate a leaking head-gasket...

What could it be that is causing such problems?

You've got a major air leak somewhere .... I believe.
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Just to be on the safe-side about the EGR... remove and plug the hose going to the EGR valve and take a test drive. Any changes?

LOL...you're killin' me with this air leak idea! I would hope that I could hear or find an air leak of that size?

I took that little hose off the EGR valve and put some black tape around it and started the engine, didn't drive it, but it was the same...

Should I try and re-do the lower intake manifold gasket again?

...

Should I try and re-do the lower intake manifold gasket again?
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I have a hard time something could have happened to the gasket job.. unless the engine was severely overheated....even then the air leak would be detectable by the sensors ... but not your ears. Do you have access to a old style ignition test light ... the kind that can be clamped around the individual spark cables to see if each plug is firing?

Do you suppose a plastic part split?

The engine hasn't overheated at all...not even gone above mid-range...unless the temp sensor is bad and reading the wrong temperature.

No, I don't have an ignition test light.

I removed my upper intake plenum and looked it over the other day, making sure all the gaskets and stuff were seated properly, and checked the egr ports again...the plenum had more oil in it than I expected. I think it was from that Dorman PCV valve though...I put the old Motorcraft one back on and it doesn't seem like as much oil is going through now. The point being, I don't think the plenum had any cracks in it that I could tell. Unless of course the new lower gaskets cracked somewhere. I was thinking maybe the coolant flush may have damaged it somehow, but I don't see how the water pump didn't but the water hose did...not possible I would think.

Let me ask you this...when your van is running and you put your ear on the upper intake plenum, is there a ticking sound? Mine makes a clicking or ticking sound and my father-in-law (whose advice I usually don't like to listen to) says it could be a valve not working properly...I have no idea.

Some ticking is normal.
Also, the fuel injectors click.

Are there any codes? ... do you have a scanner to see if all systems are "learned"?

Ok, as you can see from the many posts above that I've gotten a lot of random codes, but always maintained the P0174 code...

That being said, I went out this morning and started my van and let it warm up to operating temp...put the code reader on it and no codes. When you plug it in, it will give you general OBDII codes, and then you can do the "Continuous Memory" test, KOER (Key On Engine Running), and KOEO (Key On Engine Off). All tests indicate no codes...except for the P1000 (OBD Systems Readiness Test Not Complete). Which brings me to the question, I suppose that is what you meant by "learned"--whether or not all monitors are testing...

All monitors except for the EVA (EVAP System Monitor) are "learned." Which that joker's been blinking (un-learned) for like 2 weeks...

The EVAP system leads us back to vacuum ... as it is ported somewhere near the throttle plate, I don't remember where at the moment ... wonder if that is the leak?

After reading a little more, I think I understand the monitor system a little better now...it is all based off "drive cycles". The reason the EVAP monitor is blinking on my scanner is because the drive cycle required to run the test hasn't been completed yet...I will post an image of the drive cycle procedure below. However, if the EVAP was detecting an error, it should store a pending code the first time and then if the code re-occurs it becomes a permanent code. This morning when I did my warm up and drive around the block, it wasn't enough to run the EVAP test so the monitor was showing not tested yet. However, yesterday when driving to the dealership, the EVAP test should have occurred at least twice, and since I don't have any pending codes, I don't think there is an issue there.

I haven't ran a "drive cycle" exactly how it is stated below, so I may try that today or tomorrow if I get time.

I really think it is a mechanical problem...just don't know what or where to start. I think I might take off the harmonic balancer tomorrow and see what it looks like...

Drive Cycle Procedure--
http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx13/peneguy102309/Drive_Cycle_zps7b20fd07.gif (http://s737.photobucket.com/user/peneguy102309/media/Drive_Cycle_zps7b20fd07.gif.html)

How about an update on symptoms ... all engine concerns/performance/noise while at idle, load, cruising, etc. .... and all current codes. Did you put the cleaner in the gasoline after the engine started running roughly ...?? (BTW, I always advise against using cleaners in a poorly performing engine ... I know I'm in a minority on this, but I consider these chemicals for "maintenance" ... to be used while all is OK: ... not for "repair". Now I will get down off the podium.)

Ok...from the top...

When I start the engine, the whole car shakes/vibrates/shutters...if you leave your jaw loose it will chatter your teeth. I think it seems to be worse when the engine is cold and especially at idle with the car in Park. While driving it's not as bad, but it is still noticeable. I noticed yesterday on the way to the Ford dealer, that when I get up to about 55-60 mph it makes a deep bass noise...almost like the sound (just the sound, not the vibration) you hear when driving on the shoulder of the road but muffled. As far as any other time...no noises.

I can't tell if there is a performance loss...the engine feels about the same as it always has. You gotta remember I've only had it for about 3,000 miles.

I did the lower intake manifold gaskets, upper plenum gaskets, DPFE sensor, plugs and wires. After the procedure, since I had drained as much coolant as I could through the rad. plug, I put some of that cleaner in it and filled the rest up with distilled water. Changed the oil to Mobil 1 synthetic 5-20. After that the thing ran perfect.

About a week later I drained out the system again and put in some more distilled water...about a gallon and a half. Ran the van for another week and did a complete flush...opened at the rad. plug, the thermostat hole, the "quick connect" on the manifold, and the rear heater core lines. Flushed through the reservoir first till I saw clear water coming from the rad. then went to the back and flushed through the rear heater core. Plugged one line back up on the heater core and flushed all the way from back to front. Stuck the hose in the upper rad. hose and flushed some more. Buttoned everything back up, put in about a gallon and a half of Zerex G-05, let it idle to temp and drove around. Ended up putting another half gallon and that's it.

I noticed it after all the flush...I can't remember if it was immediately after or not, but I know for sure I noticed it by the next day.

I put in some B12 fuel treatment AFTER the problem started thinking it might be a partially clogged fuel injector.

I've checked every single vacuum line on the van...sprayed brake parts cleaner everywhere else. No codes at all now except the ABS code C1185 (I think it is).

Oh FWIW, Ford says it's "base engine"...wouldn't give me any more info than that...I will not return to that dealership. I'll drive the extra 30 miles (one way) to the next one next time.

....
I did the lower intake manifold gaskets, upper plenum gaskets, DPFE sensor, plugs and wires. After the procedure, since I had drained as much coolant as I could through the rad. plug, I put some of that cleaner in it and filled the rest up with distilled water. Changed the oil to Mobil 1 synthetic 5-20. After that the thing ran perfect.

About a week later I drained out the system again and put in some more distilled water...about a gallon and a half. Ran the van for another week and did a complete flush...opened at the rad. plug, the thermostat hole, the "quick connect" on the manifold, and the rear heater core lines. Flushed through the reservoir first till I saw clear water coming from the rad. then went to the back and flushed through the rear heater core. Plugged one line back up on the heater core and flushed all the way from back to front. Stuck the hose in the upper rad. hose and flushed some more. Buttoned everything back up, put in about a gallon and a half of Zerex G-05, let it idle to temp and drove around. Ended up putting another half gallon and that's it.......
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My friend, you are the "flush king"! I only drain and refill....but I am very careful to keep the coolant metal-friendly ... always using 60% plus of anti-freeze or/and often dump in a bit of baking soda to keep the solution "basic", not acidic...so there is nothing evil to flush out. Why did you do so much flushing? Was the engine running? Did you remove the thermostat while doing all this flushing? Was the system in bad shape /rusty originally? When you refilled did you make sure the air was vented out to prevent captured air inside the heads?

Can you make another compression test...to see if there are any changes? And inspect the plugs while you are at it ... making sure there are no cracks in the porcelain?

Well, the reason I did such a thorough flush was because I wasn't sure when the thing had been flushed last and I wanted to make sure I flushed it good and got all the cleaner out as well.

As far as percentage, the capacity is 15L which is like 3.9 gallons and I put in 2 gallons of coolant so it is just above 50-50.

The engine was not running when I did the flush, it was off and had been sitting for a while. It was warm, but I could put my hand on it. The water coming out of the thermostat hole was about bath temperature but the water going in was probably 50-60 degrees F.

Yes I removed the thermostat.

With this flush, a good bit of rust came out. I don't know how much exactly, but if I cupped my hand it would fill my palm...about 3-5 tbsp maybe? At least that is what I caught, I'm sure some of it poured out on the ground too...

As far as making sure the air was "vented out," I'm not sure what you mean or how to do that...I don't suppose I did that. I just plugged everything back up and poured in about 1.5 gallons of coolant, ran the engine at idle in the driveway, then checked it again soon after, adding a little, then I drove it around town where there are some really big hills. Came back home and let it cool and added the rest of the 2nd gallon.

I guess I can do another compression test. What EXACTLY do I need to look for while doing it?

It seems you did a good job on the flushing ... and that it was needed indeed. About the cylinder compression testing, I think it is always beneficial when problem solving on an engine.

But I think I have confused folks ... I thought you had already tested the compression. But now when I re-read the above postings .... I cannot find that you have done such. ?? So it must have been another poster .... sorry!

No...you are right. I did do one last week sometime. The lowest compression was 190 psi and the highest was 200 psi. According to AllData, if the highest pressure is 200 psi, then the rest should be higher than 150 psi.

I didn't know if there was something specific I should be looking for or something you were trying to get at...it was the first time I've ever done compression test, but it's pretty straight forward.

I thought I had read that you had done the compression test. When did you do the compression test? Was if before or after the problem began? If after, then you are right there is no benefit in doing it again .... I was hoping you had done if before the problem began.
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Those are phenomenal compression readings (I finally read where you originally posted this information) .... a bit on the high side, but that may be due to the gauge just reading "high", and nothing to worry about. Those readings indicate to me that you do not have a basic engine problem ... something else is going on. I would still pull the plugs to see if one has broken ... do not over-torque them on installation, that's where many get broken.
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Is there any chance you have some water captured in a cable connector on top of the coil pack?

And about that EVAP system again ... any chance that you actually have a loose/split hose going back to the tank, or some other tank opening ... and you got water in the gasoline when you did that "flushing at the rear" (just how did you do that, by the way?...I've never had those hoses loose on my '99, they are probably about to rot away!).

OK ... I've just re-read all your posts. You have not replaced the coil pack, correct? My '99 (375K miles) is probably on its fifth one. Yours may have hairline cracks that no ohmmeter will detect ... which become great surface conductors when wet. This is my absolute last wild guess ....
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... until I come up with another one!

When did you do the compression test? Was if before or after the problem began?

It was AFTER the problem started that I did a compression test...thinking maybe I had cracked the heads or something.

Is there any chance you have some water captured in a cable connector on top of the coil pack?

I've taken off the coil pack and ohmed it out since this started. I cleaned it with some brake parts cleaner and blew it out with the air compressor. I doubt it has any water in it.

And about that EVAP system again ... any chance that you actually have a loose/split hose going back to the tank, or some other tank opening ... and you got water in the gasoline when you did that "flushing at the rear"

I would think if that were the case gas would be coming out wouldn't it? And the way I did it, I wouldn't think the water could've gotten into the gas anyway.


(just how did you do that, by the way?...I've never had those hoses loose on my '99, they are probably about to rot away!)

At the rear of the van, driver's side, there are four lines--two for the coolant and two for something else (the refrigerant I would guess). The two with hose clamps are the coolant lines...I VERY CAREFULLY removed those lines from the metal lines (I was afraid they were going to crack)...I removed both, that way I could flush through the auxiliary heater core only so if it had any rust it would just run out on the ground. I flushed through both hoses through the heater core, then plugged one of the hoses back up and stuck my water hose
into the other one...luckily my hose nozzle fit snuggly so all the water pressure was going into the hose...cranked up the pressure and left it. Eventually the water started running out the front of the van and I let it do that for about 5 minutes. That's when I went back to the front a flushed a little more just in case something got pushed from the back to the front...Pretty easy to do.

OK ... I've just re-read all your posts. You have not replaced the coil pack, correct? My '99 (375K miles) is probably on its fifth one. Yours may have hairline cracks that no ohmmeter will detect ... which become great surface conductors when wet. This is my absolute last wild guess ....
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... until I come up with another one!

HAHA!! You are correct, that is about the only thing I haven't replaced. It has been in the back of my mind the whole time, but I don't want to dish out $80 for a guess...I'm already about $700 in...I was thinking if it was bad I would get a code wouldn't I? Some kind of misfire code?

I may run up to AutoZone...the manager up there is real nice...and see if he'll let me take one and try it and if it doesn't work bring it back. He let me do it with a MAF sensor last week.

I keep thinking it's either the coil pack or the harmonic balancer...knowing my luck, it's probably neither...

I doubt now that its a problem, but the hoses going back to the tank that I was talking about were the EVAP hose and the fill hose ... but I am now convinced that there is little chance that you got water into the tank.

If the guy will lend you a ignition pact, he is indeed a good friend ...take him up on it. You will never find, with an ohmmeter, all the opportunities for hi-voltage leakage. And if you are getting such leakage, it can be so random and distributed that you will never get a misfire code. Been there, done that!

About the harmonic balancer: ... as you probably know they do have a rubber ring structurally included. It will wear over time and slip, especially if there has been a lot of exposure to oil. However, unless if you have used the timing markings on the (outer) wheel for your recent work there should be no problem ... as the inner wheel, hard mounted to the crank, carries the toothed wheel which feeds data to the crank position sensor. I happen to be replacing my harmonic balancer for the first time just now ... just as a maintenance action, no problems with it yet. BTW, if you ever happen to use the timing markings ... it's always a good practice to confirm the position of the markings by putting a feeler on top of the #1 piston top as a helper cranks the engine over by hand. On the 3.8, cylinder #5 can also be used.

If the guy will lend you a ignition pact, he is indeed a good friend ...take him up on it. You will never find, with an ohmmeter, all the opportunities for hi-voltage leakage. And if you are getting such leakage, it can be so random and distributed that you will never get a misfire code. Been there, done that!

I went up there today to talk to him but he's off...I got a serpentine belt tool and harmonic balancer remover and I think I'm going to check it out. Alldata doesn't mention anything about the timing marks, so what exactly do I need to look for?

ALSO...I for some reason decided to bring along my OBDII scanner on the trip to AutoZone...once again I have the P0174 code...

Here is the FreezeFrame data:

Calc Load (%)...............20.0
ECT (degrees F)...........145.4
STFT B1(%)..................-0.8
LTFT B1(%)....................7.0
STFT B2(%)..................22.7
LTFT B2(%)...................14.1
RPM.............................1300
Veh Speed (mph)..............27

I'm not really sure exactly what the fuel trims mean, but the difference between banks 1 and 2 seems pretty drastic...

Lets don't remove it just now ... but let's take a look at it. The timing markings are very faint on this balancer .... usually on the inside edge of the serpentine belt wheel. Go ahead and find these markings if you can. Enhance them with a bit of paint, nail polish, or steno correction fluid. Now find the crankshaft sensor ... just a few degrees clockwise of this sensor you will find the indicator that is part of the front engine cover. Best to use an eyeball mounted on the end of some snake-like appendage ... similar to what is seen in some alien space movies. Humans almost can, but usually cannot, see this indicator ... best to remove wheel, strut, axle, .... I don't know how Ford expects anyone to see this area!

As I have said, there is little chance the balancer could be causing you a problem ... but if you wish, do the check I have outlined above. If you find the markings on the wheel do not match the piston position .... then yes, I would go ahead and replace it.

But there is something else that may be a bother ... and since you don't know all the service history of this vehicle, there is a chance the cam position sensor has been miss-located. You can check by putting piston #1 at TDC and checking to see if the wand on the synchronizer is aligned with the sensor window. (It will all make sense once you do a little research ... and begin dismantling.)

I was just raising my sub-frame back in place ... it's been low by an inch or so while I replaced gaskets and balancer ... and "OOPS!".... I was wrong, the indicator/pointer for timing procedures is CCW (looking into the crank) of the crank position sensor by an inch or so.