Howdy to all. Ive been hearing alot of crap about foreign cars are better than domestic cars. Well i cant tell you which is better but i can give you my opionon. Until you can show me one foreign car that can run under 10 sec without $15,000 invested in it, I wont shut up. You can take a 2000 camaro z28 bore it out to a 400ci which will cost about 5-600 dollars, put alluminum heads 5-600 dollars, msd 500 dollars, rocker arms and a bigger cam 5-600 dollars, and finally nos about a 5-600. that adds up to about 2500-3000 dollars and you will run well under 10 secs. And if your saying that your rice rocket runs under a 10 without alot of mods then your full of shhit, i have yet to see a street leagal rice that can run under 10 and hasn't invested atleast 10,000. im sure their will be alot of pissed of foreigners but fuk em.:flipa:

While you're at it don't forget your worn out baseball hat and overalls. Yeeeeehawww! :flipa: Too bad your Camero will start falling apart in about 3 years.

OK here's one for ya. 1989 240sx ($3000), SR20DET conversion, ($2000), and to even it out $12000 in upgraded turbo, fuel, exhaust and some ECU tuning. For the same price you'll sure wonder what the hell's wrong with your car. :finger:

Of course we could go on all day about this sort of thing. :rolleyes:

Theres a reason no street legal import will do an under 10 quarter, it's because they're efficent. Hell, a Skyline GT-R will blow the doors off any, and i mean any american made car ever, in a 1/4 mile, on teh track or the street, doesn't matter. But you see, they aren't legal in teh states for the same reason a Evolution isn't, the states has this weird law where a car's engine cannot produce more then something like 100 HP per litre of the engine. American engines are the worst in the world. The japanese are incrediably skilled at pulling a very large ammount of horsepower out of a very small engine. Look at a Lancer, it uses a 2.0 Litres in-line 4 and it has 270 BHP. Costs $25,000 and weighs about 3000lbs.

A ford mustang GT costs the same, uses a MUCH bigger V8, weighs 300lbs more, and produces 10 BHP less then the lancer.

The reason imports need that little bit of extra money is because it's required to return them to the power they are in Japan. When japanese cars are brought stateside they are severly neuterd. Most japanese cars, and i mean the actual versions sold in japan have about 20-30%more HP then the exact same models sold in the states. Thats why the Lancer and the Skyline aren't brought over here, it's because the companies won't make them ball-less so that american cars won't look bad.

Also, how much is it to buy that camaro? because i garuntee that i can come up with something for the same price or less that would blow that thing away in every category.

Originally posted by CAptynCrunch
American engines are the worst in the world. The japanese are incrediably skilled at pulling a very large ammount of horsepower out of a very small engine. Look at a Lancer, it uses a 2.0 Litres in-line 4 and it has 270 BHP. Costs $25,000 and weighs about 3000lbs.
You know that insurance, or tax, is based on the displacement of the engine not the horsepower. That's why Japanese cars get a lot of power out of a little displacment. If you started the same type of thing in the states I'd be you'll see American car makers putting more time into getting more out of less.

TRUE THAT.... domestic boy can't talk sh*t now can he......:D

Originally posted by G-Forces
While you're at it don't forget your worn out baseball hat and overalls. Yeeeeehawww! :flipa: Too bad your Camero will start falling apart in about 3 years.

OK here's one for ya. 1989 240sx ($3000), SR20DET conversion, ($2000), and to even it out $12000 in upgraded turbo, fuel, exhaust and some ECU tuning. For the same price you'll sure wonder what the hell's wrong with your car. :finger:

Of course we could go on all day about this sort of thing. :rolleyes:
Well aren't we retarded. If you spend 12000 grand on turbo and exhaust and all that other crap. you mise well stick your foot up your ass because you go fuucked!

12000 grand... damn thats alot of cash... LOL

Difference is, a 10s Japanese car like the GTR can still go around a corner at the end and is road legal and has road tires....

Heard of RH9.. all road tires under 10's.... fuck you will NEVER do that in an american car.

Originally posted by bluevette74

Well aren't we retarded. If you spend 12000 grand on turbo and exhaust and all that other crap. you mise well stick your foot up your ass because you go fuucked!
Yup I'm the retarded one. I can't understand a word you wrote. :confused:

Originally posted by GTS-4 Ben
12000 grand... damn thats alot of cash... LOL

Yup, I was just trying to even out the price tag. :D $12k buys a lot of mods for an SR20DET.

Oh my hell.
I can't believe some of the posts I am reading. Someone comparing a Mustang to a Skyline GTR. Well this orange is more orange than that apple, so the orange is better. You can't compare the two.

I am a domestic car guy, don't get me wrong. But I would be willing to guess that you could get one of those Supra TT's into the 10's for less than $10,000. Those cars are absolutley awesome. Maybe some of the import guys can correct me if I'm wrong, since I am by no means an authority on the subject. What you have to realize, is that there is always going to be somebody faster. Whether they drive a Ford, Chevy, Honda or Nissan etc. I like to think I am pretty open minded, and appreciate all fast cars (Not a big fan of big wings and stickers, on foreign or domestic cars), but none the less, I have respect for any automobile made to go fast and look good, regardless of the manufacturer.

Originally posted by blacksnake98
I am a domestic car guy, don't get me wrong. But I would be willing to guess that you could get one of those Supra TT's into the 10's for less than $10,000. Those cars are absolutley awesome. Maybe some of the import guys can correct me if I'm wrong, since I am by no means an authority on the subject. What you have to realize, is that there is always going to be somebody faster. Whether they drive a Ford, Chevy, Honda or Nissan etc. I like to think I am pretty open minded, and appreciate all fast cars (Not a big fan of big wings and stickers, on foreign or domestic cars), but none the less, I have respect for any automobile made to go fast and look good, regardless of the manufacturer.
Hey man that's totally cool. I just happen to like Japanese 4 bangers now, I'm going to attempt to get about 300hp at the wheels with a turbo when I've the money saved up. I have to respect a modded to car too, no matter what it is....as long as it's not too in your face.

Anyway the Supra TT is not really the best 1/4 mile car it's more of a top speed type highway car. From a 80mph roll-on there isn't much that can hang with it. But yes a Supra TT can get into the 11s pretty easily. But it's a 60k car, although you can get a used one a lot cheaper now.

If you are domestic owner you should know exactly what your car's strength and weakness is. Strength is obviously displacement power. They are plenty of domestic running with 1000+hp as well. Weakness should be build quality. Just take a look at the interior of C5. It's a world difference when you compare build quality of exterior to interior.


If you are a real car lover the main goal is to get the most out of the car, that's all doesn't matter if it says BMW or Ford in front.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/p49673891af4810a479879bac8a0499c1/fe576a9b.gif

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/pd9dc94e0ab65caaed47bdefdeeae1c26/fe576b66.gif

Originally posted by Polygon
Oh my hell.
I can't believe some of the posts I am reading. Someone comparing a Mustang to a Skyline GTR. Well this orange is more orange than that apple, so the orange is better. You can't compare the two.

Polygon, I'm assuming your referring to my post. Just to clarify i'm not comparing the mustang to a skyline in any regard. I was comparing the mustang and a lancer because both cost about the same ammount of money which is what the guy was arguing about. He said that imports can't run good 1/4 miles without lots of upgrades. A lancer with just the little bit of extra stuff that he added to his camaro, or even just a good NOS system would easliy run under 10.

I was using the skyline as an example of a car that isn't allowed in the states because of the fact that it creates too much HP and Torque for it's displacement.

Originally posted by CAptynCrunch


Polygon, I'm assuming your referring to my post. Just to clarify i'm not comparing the mustang to a skyline in any regard. I was comparing the mustang and a lancer because both cost about the same ammount of money which is what the guy was arguing about. He said that imports can't run good 1/4 miles without lots of upgrades. A lancer with just the little bit of extra stuff that he added to his camaro, or even just a good NOS system would easliy run under 10.

I was using the skyline as an example of a car that isn't allowed in the states because of the fact that it creates too much HP and Torque for it's displacement.

Now I see that, sorry. But still a Mustang, gag, you had to pick one of the worst American cars. :)

What's so bad about mustang? They are good value for the money you spent.

Direct exchange rate conversion of Japanese Evo7 into US dollar price figure doesn't work. The price will most likely be 35-45K when it makes it here with it's 300ps engine.

Originally posted by F20C
What's so bad about mustang? They are good value for the money you spent.

I have to agree with F20 here, then again, I am a little biased.:D

As much as I hate Fords, Mustangs are actually good cars. I've lost to few of them and can attest to their reliability.

Ok we all know that a lamborghini or a ferrari can whoop pretty much any domestic car. I was trying to argue that it is alot cheaper and easier to get more horsepower out of a domestic vehicle. And for all of yall morons who thought that i was saying that foreign cars are all pos's are stupid. If you would read my post it clearly states that i cannot say which is better but in my opinion. And this is for whoever said that america neuters japenese engines. "Do you actually think that japan would spend the money on beefing up engines when their best consumer america is just going to spend money on reducing the hp." yeah who ever said that is a winner! And i would like to thank the guy who reminded me to put on my faded hat and overalls, because your mom hates it when i dont ride her like a cowboy!:smoka:

If the goal is to create a street legal sub 10 second car, going with a domestic V8 clearly has the best chances. The smaller six and four cyllider engines are already nearing their potential while the V8 have more room to grow. Would that mean I would want one? Maybe a Viper, but Mustangs are Fords and therefore shit. Cameros and Trans Ams are dead and were poorly built. Vettes are a dime a dozen and the interior just isnt all that appealing. So, I'll stick with the foreign makes. Porche and BMW are high on the list for my next rocket. Accord is the direction were going for our next daily driver.


As for the cheap mods to 10sec. I believe the BMW M3 can make it with the types of mods you're talking about for the camero.

Originally posted by bluevette74
And i would like to thank the guy who reminded me to put on my faded hat and overalls, because your mom hates it when i dont ride her like a cowboy!:smoka:
Yup, you just confirmed it. You're just a 16 year old punk. Nice try, now I can just easily ignore anything you say. Not like it was constructive anyway.

If all the streets in the US were nothing but straight lines then we could talk about the 1/4 mile and topend speed but until you can go from any two points without turning the wheel then lets forget about just straight line accelleration and speed and talk about the complete real world performance of a car.

I have both imports and a domestic sports car. Totally different. My nissan is very quick, but does not come close to camparing to my mustang. I just bought the ford, LOVE the engine. Nobody builds them like the U.S.
But it gets wierd in the twisty stuff if there are bumps. I drove alot of new sporty cars, and the stang was the best bang for the buck. But it feels wishy washy after driving my nissan. Very different. I love them both.

For me it is nothing but an import, and this is not to say there are no great domestics but I need quality and reliability and until the domestics deliver both quailty and reliability for as long as the imports have for me, I'll be buying more imports.

The new 2002 Toyota Supras are supposed too run 11's stock. They go supposedly go from 0-100 in 9.7 seconds. There are street legal cars that are pushing 1300 Hp. Just last month a 99 Supra, with 1300 Hp, and completely US street legal, set a bunch of records at the Utah Salt Flats for being the fastest US Street Legal car to run it at 249 mph. And its only got 6 cylinders. So tell me now, how many 6 cylindered domestic pieces-of-crap can contain over 700 hp, still be US street legan, and go 249 mph. NONE!!!!, Ya fu**'n hater.:flipa: :eek: :(

seeing how toyota has not sold a supra in north america in 4 years, i find it dificult to believe that a 2002 can run 11's stock. how the hell are you going to get one, since a treet legal 2002 supra does not exist. ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????

I know that the the zo6.5 is not a 6 cyl, but its a 350 twin turbo vette 500 hp. Its top speed is 225mph 1/4 is 10.25. Your probably asking why im comparing the zo6.5 to the supra well the z06.5 cost 55,000k that supra you mentioned probably cost more than 100,000k. If chevorlet spent 45,000 more on the z06.5 i garantee you that your supra will eat dust you faget. And if chevy or ford wanted to build a car that was street legal and push over a 1000hp they could. And i will totally agree with you that foreign cars are better than domestic, only when you spend about 3 times as much money on them. Also i think that your the only one who has heard about this mysterious supra and you dont even know the exact stats it has dumb ass, so until i see some proof i dont believe you.

Originally posted by bluevette74
i garantee you that your supra will eat dust you faget.
Watch your tone and how you speak to the other list members...you've been warned!!!!

Originally posted by DemonZX
Opinions are like A$$Holes everybody has one>:newburn: It really burns me up that grown people can argue about these things. Some people like chocolate some don't! You don't see people ragging them out and others making excuses. It really is ridiculous. You either like it or you don't, that is your own opinion. You don't have to make excuses for it, and you don't have to push it onto other people. I love muscle cars from all era's! You have your 60' & 70's huge V8 muscle cars, then you have your 90's muscle cars. They are the same thing, just different era's! I own a 95' 300ZX. A 90's muscle car. (300ZX, Supra, Rx7) these are the Chevelle's, 442's, and Challengers of the past. Then you go down the spectrum...you can beef up any car! In the past you had to buy the 5.7 liter V8 to get all that power out of a huge car. Now I have seen 4-bangers cranking out 500-600 hp in a car that weighs half as much. So, to each his own. The reason we are all in this forum, and members, is because we all love automobiles. Thats all that really matters!


:zx11pisse

I saw this in another thread and I feel it applies here as well. Personally I like both but I am partial to domestic cars, but I still like both.

allright g20 ill watch my mouth, but you better watch other people as well. That guy that i called a faget clearly deserved it. he says "ya f**'n hater" whats that all about hunh, how come he doesnt get yelled at? Whats the dill?

We're (the mods) are watching everyone. :D I didn't notice that before but I'll keep my eye out. :right:

Originally posted by DigitalRacer
The new 2002 Toyota Supras are supposed too run 11's stock. They go supposedly go from 0-100 in 9.7 seconds. There are street legal cars that are pushing 1300 Hp. Just last month a 99 Supra, with 1300 Hp, and completely US street legal, set a bunch of records at the Utah Salt Flats for being the fastest US Street Legal car to run it at 249 mph. And its only got 6 cylinders. So tell me now, how many 6 cylindered domestic pieces-of-crap can contain over 700 hp, still be US street legan, and go 249 mph. NONE!!!!, Ya fu**'n hater.:flipa: :eek: :(

Where does this suppose SUPRA exsist?

In fairy land.. until it is out then it's crap..

He just makes me laugh because he is so INFORMATIVE!!

I would like to just mention a car that here in New Zealand purchased for @$11,000 USD that has run in the mid 10's quite a bit. It is an R32 GTR owned by Croydon Wholesalers. Now the kiwi's know about Reece's R32 but he has spent a heap in that car, maybe near $40,000 USD but has recently run a 9.88 1/4.
While some may say so what, consider this. It is streel legal, and he did it on D.O.T. tires !
The same with the Croydon GTR. The biggest problem with that Croydon car is he keeps destroying very expensive gearboxes but recently put in a hollenger, so that is not a hp gaining mod.

At the end of the day if you do not know what is out there don't go there. Assumptions just make you look foolish.

BTW the HKS R33 drag car ran a 7.57 1/4 without it being tubed! As a matter of fact it was done on 9" wide tires at all the corners! lets see an American car do that or any RWD car do that.

Before you go off your rocker and flame me for being a stupid forigener I was born and raised in Chicago for 31 years before I came to New Zealand.

Wow, I get all excited when I read these Domestic vs Japanese debates and I have a few things to say on the subject.

I live in Bowling Green Kentucky, home of the Vette and I see 50 of them every day and they are nice cars, the zo6(V8) rocks because you can buy it stock for like 55k and have a fast torque monster. Take the Viper(V10), another monster, but these are all cars born out of the Hot Rod era with big blocks, hemis and burnouts. Look at a Skyline GTR(S6), here we have a straight 6 Twin Turbo car that you can buy new (And a V-Spec version might I add) for about 45-50k US. Or you could spend 28,386.12 USD and have this R33 V-Spec. http://www.ralliartuk.com/stock/detailU285.html
Any way, back to the subject at hand, Low end torque and drag racing vs. high end torque, AWD and street racing. I'm not going to crap on any one's personal likes and dislikes but I would like every one to keep an open mind and while you may prefer a Vette over a GTR, I would much rather have a GTR. Reasons you ask? For one, handling. When you have such a wonderful AWD system (ATTESSA I think? give or take a few T's or S's) and HICAS 4 wheel steering the GTR is a dream to take through the twisties. Also, the fact that you are running twin turbos gives you gobs of mid to high end power to downshift and then power our of those curves. Another reason I would rather have a GTR insted of a Vette is just because I live in the US and there arn't many Skylines over here. Instead of driving by and people not even noticing my shiny new Vette because they see 20 of um every daythey would turn, look, and say "Damn, what was that? I've never seen one of those!"
Any how, all this is neither here nor there because in the end it comes down to personal prefrence and I just happen to like the idea of AWD, turbos, boost controlers, and ungodly specs :P
Just to add the biased section, take a sec and look up the specs on a new R34 V-spec, I think those of you who don't know what they are will be supprised. Also check out some videos of those wonderful skylines :P Here's one of my favorite skylines owned by MarioGTR (I beleave) from this board check out the GTR Videos on this site http://www.exvitermini.com/

Ok, well thats my rant, I'm done :flipa:

Originally posted by CAptynCrunch
Theres a reason no street legal import will do an under 10 quarter, it's because they're efficent. Hell, a Skyline GT-R will blow the doors off any, and i mean any american made car ever, in a 1/4 mile, on teh track or the street, doesn't matter. But you see, they aren't legal in teh states for the same reason a Evolution isn't, the states has this weird law where a car's engine cannot produce more then something like 100 HP per litre of the engine. American engines are the worst in the world. The japanese are incrediably skilled at pulling a very large ammount of horsepower out of a very small engine. Look at a Lancer, it uses a 2.0 Litres in-line 4 and it has 270 BHP. Costs $25,000 and weighs about 3000lbs.

A ford mustang GT costs the same, uses a MUCH bigger V8, weighs 300lbs more, and produces 10 BHP less then the lancer.

The reason imports need that little bit of extra money is because it's

Okay....contrary to popular belief, a stock Skyline GT-R will not blow the doors of any stock domestic. Any stock vette stay with one in the quarter mile, top speed, or through the curves (according to lateral acceleration data and slalom tests). I'm not even talking aboutthe high performance model Vettes like the L-88 (stock low 11's in the quarter), the ZR1 (12s in the quarter, top speed close to 190mph) or the Z06 (low twelves stock, 176mph top speed, 1.02 Gs lat. accel.)
I am pretty sure there is no US law concerning bhp/L (look at the US legal S2000), only maximum bhp. I think it is limited to 276bhp...if I am mistaken correct me, please. Also, american engines aren't necessarily the worst. American companies can manufacture 4 bangers with relatively high HP, look at the cavalier Z24 (yes I know, not a great example). Also, Saturn (a division of GM), is considering producing turbo versions of its SC1 and SC2 cars.
Oh yeah, what is the torque of the Lancer? Probably less than the stang. Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races.

Originally posted by GTS-4 Ben
12000 grand... damn thats alot of cash... LOL

Difference is, a 10s Japanese car like the GTR can still go around a corner at the end and is road legal and has road tires....

Heard of RH9.. all road tires under 10's.... fuck you will NEVER do that in an american car.

Ever heard of the Hennessey Viper 800T? It runs 9s in the quarter, top speed is over 200, and handles pretty damn well. Thats on road tires, too.

Its not that I don't like imports, I just prefer domestics. There are some pretty amazing imports out there, in particular the Skyline. I love Supra TTs, Rx-7s, 300ZX TTs and others, I just prefer domestics. Didn't want to leave the wrong impression:)

take a look at these (everyone)....one 1039bhp Supra, and another 800bhp Supra...

http://www.supercars.net/cars/1999@$Toyota%20Veilside@$Supra%20Limitedc.html

http://www.supercars.net/cars/2001@$Toyota%20AB-Flug@$Supra%20S900b.html

I dont care what you say, 1039bhp outta a 3.0 litre six is IMPRESSIVE to say the least....

CAptynCrunch what you said is pathetic. You really should know more about the cars before commenting.

hakka I must be the odd breed since I win races without torque :sun:.

i have never seen a stock block Camaro run in the 9's before.

maybe it's due to the fact that you need to strengthen the internals or you'll bend a rod or twist a crank after 400hp. running fast is one thing, but it dont count if the car has to be towed off the finish line.

for $2000 in mods or whatever, the LS1 will get into the 12's, possibly 11's. down here in the south there's a lot of quick muscle cars, and if it were truly that cheap to run 9's, then every slack-jawed yocal here would have one... but they dont.

$1000 into a Supra will have it running side by side with a Camaro with the same amount of money invested.

Originally posted by drift
$1000 into a Supra will have it running side by side with a Camaro with the same amount of money invested.

I hope you dont mean new. You could get two Cameros that can run with a Supra for the price of a single Supra Turbo (new to new)

They are not the same type of cars, but soon as the mod arguement rears its ugly head, it just gets plain ugly.

As far as every yokel having one that runs in the 9s if it were easy - thats true about every car and every ricer/redneck/yokel/rube/wannabe out there.

drift: well duh, of course no stock camaro can run in the 9's stock, just like no stock supra can run in the 9's. How much does a supra cost, im guessing around $40,000. A new vette c5 cost about the same and if your saying 1000 in mods the vette will win. Moe182: hell yeah its impressive to get 1039 hp out of a 3.0l, but a 500ci 8.0l funny cars can get up to 6-7000hp, tell me whats more impressive! so the supra is pushing about 350hp per liter, the big block american made engine is pushing 812 hp per liter.

Originally posted by F20C
hakka I must be the odd breed since I win races without torque :sun:.

just saying that generally, a car with more torque but less hp will win a race, as long as they weigh about the same

There are many issues that concern this broad question. One of which is safety. Japanese steel is probably the weakest type of steel I have ever seen. The Jap cars get very low ratings on crash tests while American steel can withstand hits and not leave your pockets flipped inside out. Another issue that many people talk about is the performance that it outputs straight out of the box. A stock Camaro ZL1 is an 8.4-liter aluminum-block pushrod V8 making a foot-stomping 770 horsepower at 6900 rpm and a raucous 683 lb.-ft of torque at 5200 rpm. Transfer of power comes via a five-speed manual transmission and a three-disc hydraulic clutch setup. Althoug it is a concept, the potential is still there. Imagine if this ZL1 was TT and had a NOS, then what would you say? My final argument is getting the most for your dollar. A Skyline for example is not sold in the US yet, it has to be imported via Motorex or whatever and you have to pay a ton of tariffs and the sticker price for it while an American car is much cheaper and takes less hassle to purchase. If your Skyline gets hit or something, do you think you will be able to find the parts for a decent price and not have to wait weeks for them to come in from out of the country?

Originally posted by bluevette74
drift: well duh, of course no stock camaro can run in the 9's stock, just like no stock supra can run in the 9's. How much does a supra cost, im guessing around $40,000. A new vette c5 cost about the same and if your saying 1000 in mods the vette will win. Moe182: hell yeah its impressive to get 1039 hp out of a 3.0l, but a 500ci 8.0l funny cars can get up to 6-7000hp, tell me whats more impressive! so the supra is pushing about 350hp per liter, the big block american made engine is pushing 812 hp per liter.

I think he means stock internals with modifications, not factory stock. by the way, drift, I've seen stock block LS1s run 9s before...they have aluminum blocks and heads, forged connecting rods, with a cast iron crank...a pretty strong combination.

something posted in another thread:

Originally posted by LiuBei
What do you want me to prove, eh? That an NSX is far superior to that Vette you have? Hell that is just a Chevrolet, a typical american wannabe. Here is a simple equation: Take the number of miles that POS has on it when it falls apart {you're lucky if you get to 100k} multiply it by 7 and that is how many miles any NSX can have and still smoke yo mofro A55, BOOYA

You're first mistake would be taking me too seriously, HOOAH

not taking you too seriously, but my '79 has 120,000 miles on it and steadily climbing:). I guarantee you it is quicker than the NSX, up to 100 at least....since it is a 70s sports car, it wont be able to handle quite as well, and due to the lower gearing, won't take it in the top speed. My ZR-1 would beat it in whatever contest you could think up, even fuel economy and reliability. It only has 20K on the clock, but my friends ZR-1 with 105K on it would smoke the NSX as well......

Naw, i doubt that.....ive seen an NSX goin' @ the race track and it doesnt really seem like a threat with a 3 litre 6 cyl crankin 290bhp.....but those things are MADE for the race track, they're not really for 0-60 or the 1/4 mile.....but thats not really racing anyways.

How many American brands do you see on this chart?

file:///C:/My%20Documents/Kevin/reliable

Hey hakka, I concur that a ZR-1 would probably beat most NSX's. Regardless I know people that have owned ZR1's and they fall apart around 50k. I'm not tring to dis you or your car. There is just the simple fact that Japanese cars have superior build quality and last longer with fewer problems. AMEN

I can only see a red X - I know just as many people who've owned Japanese cars (me included) who fall apart after 49.99K miles so your comparison method is meaningless. Japanese cars are not better then an American built car. Its like people who still cling to the theory that the earth is flat. They just cant believe that its not true.

Why do you own 3 Japanese cars then? GO TO jdpa.com, that is the JD Power site. Go under automotive and find how many awards Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus have won for Reliability, quality, durability, and lonlivety. It is a damn proven fact that Japanese cars have higher quality build ratings than others. Besides Honda and Toyota are really the only two Japanese brands I care about. I like some Nissan/Infiniti models but would probably never buy any.

Originally posted by LiuBei
Hey hakka, I concur that a ZR-1 would probably beat most NSX's. Regardless I know people that have owned ZR1's and they fall apart around 50k. I'm not tring to dis you or your car. There is just the simple fact that Japanese cars have superior build quality and last longer with fewer problems. AMEN

really? I haven't heard of any problems, except for bad oil lines, on ZR1s. When developing the LT5 engine, Lotus engineers dynoed it and ran it alternating between peak horsepower and torque for a week straight, without any problems. I realize your not trying to dis my car or anything, Im just giving the facts:)

Well I know 2 guys who had ZR1's. 1 90 and 1 95. I would imagine they had problems because of "excessive usage." If you know what I mean. Maybee hard running or lemons, I'm not the one to judge.

Hmmmm. Said I wont own a Toyota, I didnt say that I wouldn't own a Japanese car. I also quoted that real world experience has shown the Japanese manufactured cars to be as much of a hassle an American one. J.D. Power and Associates. Sure I trust their judgements. Heck who cant believe a for profit organization could possibly be infulenced by PACs and lobbiest. Do you also know that the ratings they use are only on the cars brought to American shores? They dont include larger samplings from Japan or Europe? Until they can provide equivilent sampling, their conclusions are suspect even beyond being a for profit organization.

Disclaimer: I have nothing against a for profit organization. I just dont inherintly trust their publications. Its like reading the DMCs accounts of the GOP and believing it without question.

Air Force, what a joke! :silly2:

Air Force a joke? What the fuck are you talking about, "hood technician"? Please tell me that you are going to dis the USAF, or say I'm joining the Army or Marine Corp to be a real man. C'Mon why did you say that?

Hm how did it turn into a compaison with NSX?

If you want to talk about NSX being overpriced look no further than F360 Modena.

Pretty much same type of car.

2 Seater
RWD
Mid Engine
Built of Aluminum

NSX $482/HP.
F360 $600/HP.

Originally posted by bluevette74
drift: well duh, of course no stock camaro can run in the 9's stock, just like no stock supra can run in the 9's. How much does a supra cost, im guessing around $40,000. A new vette c5 cost about the same and if your saying 1000 in mods the vette will win. Moe182: hell yeah its impressive to get 1039 hp out of a 3.0l, but a 500ci 8.0l funny cars can get up to 6-7000hp, tell me whats more impressive! so the supra is pushing about 350hp per liter, the big block american made engine is pushing 812 hp per liter.

Top fuel cars are blown and run nitro. How much per liter can you get out of pumped gas or racing gas. Not alcohol or nitro. Even if you throw a blower on it you would be hard pressed getting 4,00 bhp out if it, yet HKS did just that with a 3 liter straight 6! 1,450 bhp out an RB30DET or 3.0 liter Skyline engine on pumped race fuel with no NOS.

This arguement will go on for ages. At the end of the day it is so hard to beat CID, but if you know what your doing it can be done to a point.

Oh BTW the actual price in USD for twin turbo charged Supra is a lot less but since the US governemt has put high import taxes on, it costs more there. A good example is the R33 GTR Vspec. MotoRex sells them for over $ 60,000 USD for a car that is up to 6 years old yet we can pick them up here for under $30,000 USD and if we made the difference up in what you paid for that vette with upgrades, the supra would eat it for lunch and spit it out without breaking a sweat.

Once agian I'm going to say that we are comparing apples to oranges here. Big block V8s with lots of low end power, RWD, and wheelspin are the stuff of the american dream. We have always had those kinds of cars ever sence the hot-rod idea came about. We just love to hear that deep rumble and the snarl of the V8. MOST of them are great cars, with some exceptions of course. However the Japanese auto industry goes with the small high output powerplant type connected to an AWD system devoted to taking you through whatever the road throws at you. The preference can be seen in the types of racing that each culture loves. In the US we see drag racing and NASCAR. Both feature more emphasis (sp?) on straight streach performance with few turns. However in europe and asia, we see the road courses of F1 and other road course racing.
It all boils down to personal taste and the type of performance that you like. While both types of cars can be made profecent at both they each have their strong points. As far as cars being POSs, both markets feature their fair share of um :D
I personaly like the idea of AWD, boost pressure, and 8,000 RPM as do many people here in the states. But I would love to get the chance to drive a Viper or ZO6, it would friggin make my day.
Apples and oranges folks, thats all I have to say.

I will never diss anybody that is willing to devend our country. But you sure did pick the easiest way out of it. I mean common, while the navy and marines are working their asses off all the time the airforce is out playing golf. Yes i am joining the usmc, not only that but im going out for the recon devision as well. No hard feelings i just have a lazy image of the airforce!

Originally posted by bluevette74
I will never diss anybody that is willing to devend our country. But you sure did pick the easiest way out of it. I mean common, while the navy and marines are working their asses off all the time the airforce is out playing golf. Yes i am joining the usmc, not only that but im going out for the recon devision as well. No hard feelings i just have a lazy image of the airforce!

:confused: :huh: :huh: :huh: :confused:

Hey Bluevette, first of all I spent 2 years active army as a truck mechanic in an infantry unit. Then I got out and joined the USAF. I was reccomended for intelligence after scoring a 92 on my asvab. And how in the hell can you assume anything when you are not even in the military. Every different branch does its own part. Yea, maybee the AF doesn't do all the hardcore combat training anyone else does, but really wars are won with airpower for the most part nowadays. If you want to argue that than look no further than Vietnam. And you have no fucking right to call anyone lazy, I wouldn't worry though, they will teach you respect in the Corps.

Well ill tell you why i can assume. My father, both uncles, and a cousin were in the navy. My second cousin and my grandfather were in the airforce as well. I not only got an ear full from the seabeas, but also my cousin who was in the airforce, he also said that the airforce doesnt do shit! Yeah wars are fought by airpower, but its mostly navy pilots! And i have respect, just not for the airforce. Dont think that your asvab score is so awesome. I took it, and i scored an 89 its not that hard!

Originally posted by Razorgtst

Oh BTW the actual price in USD for twin turbo charged Supra is a lot less but since the US governemt has put high import taxes on, it costs more there. A good example is the R33 GTR Vspec. MotoRex sells them for over $ 60,000 USD for a car that is up to 6 years old yet we can pick them up here for under $30,000 USD and if we made the difference up in what you paid for that vette with upgrades, the supra would eat it for lunch and spit it out without breaking a sweat.

actually, mid 70s to late 80s vettes are pretty cheap right now...I picked mine up for $5000, did about $18000 worth of restoration and modification work on it, and it now runs mid 12s with a perfect body and interior. With the $7000 dollars left over, I could probably make it do low-mid elevens....but really, like Gonthrax said, this is apples and oranges:)

Well first of all my father is a retired Rear Admiral {former pilot} and I am a Liutenant. You do not posses any experience, all you have is heresay. You tell me what your name is and if you actually make in into the USMC, I'll tell some of my Marine buddies to help you with your sorry ass attitude. I have many friends in every branch, none of us show any disrespect to anyone else. I give a damn what your relatives think, there will be members of every branch stationed at every major military installation you ever go to. If you discriminate against anyone, just because of their branch you will lose the respect of your fellow servicemembers. If you think I'm just some asshole officer, than you go out and get a commision, pilots wings, and an intelligence job and we'll talk. Until then junior, you need to get rid of your attitude, grow up, and maybee even try to make something out of your life. Anyway just tell me your name, I'm more than capable of finding where you are and I can guarantee I know someone around there.

Whatever dude! " If you discriminate against anyone, just because of their branch you will lose the respect of your fellow servicemembers." you sound like a little bitch, who's daddy got him to be an officer! My name is Michael Wayne Meyer. The Marines doesn't even look that hard, ill be looking forward to the extra challenge! And since im not inlisted yet, all you are is a little bitch, who cant cut any other branch! Go ahead and look me up! what are you going to do spank me!

Number 1 Fag, my daddy didn't get me anything, I busted my ass to get a bachelors and get a commision. Unless my dad can hand me some college credit hours or a 4 year degree, once again you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Number 2, tell your drill instructor in boot if you don't think the Marine Corps is hard. We'll see who is the little bitch. Have you ever heard of Article 15 or Article 89? You can get either as soon as you sign the dotted line. Article 15 is for General Diciplinary Action and Article 89 is for Disrespect to a Commisioned Officer, both which I have authority to give. Don't worry, just sign up and I'll find you and see how much shit you want to talk then. You'll be a disgrace to the uniform and the Marine Corps.

Hey Mikey, haven't you seen Full Metal Jacket? Tell your drill in boot that you're from Texas. Hey Private Cowboy, do you have horns?

Hey look it's you gettin punked out, like a little bich.
http://www.sawnoff.demon.co.uk/cboydrill.jpg

Well hakka, it looks like we're still talking about cars atleast. *Checks the web site agian, yup AF*
..... so what kinda car do you drive? zr-1? Have you ever been in Bowling Green for one of the big Vette conventions? I live right down the street from the plaze hotel were it all goes on. Pretty cool, all the cars come down infront of my apt tryin to show off :p

bluevette74 - good luck once you've joined. Hopefully you'll appreciate your fellow servicemen better. No matter how much you dont like it, you dont take on an officer of any branch. Only grief can come of it.

LiuBei - you're a commissioned officer who's looking to take on an enlisted man? Can you say court martial? Apperently leadership is not your strong suit yet. If thats how you treat your men, then dont be suprised if you turn up in one of those "friendly fire" incidents.

Originally posted by Gonthrax
Well hakka, it looks like we're still talking about cars atleast. *Checks the web site agian, yup AF*
..... so what kinda car do you drive? zr-1? Have you ever been in Bowling Green for one of the big Vette conventions? I live right down the street from the plaze hotel were it all goes on. Pretty cool, all the cars come down infront of my apt tryin to show off :p

yeah, I've got a ZR-1 and a modified 79. I've been to quite a few conventions, as a matter of fact, I was in Bowling Green in august:) do you go to college nearby? a lot of the tour guides in the factory are college students

Originally posted by hakka
actually, mid 70s to late 80s vettes are pretty cheap right now...I picked mine up for $5000, did about $18000 worth of restoration and modification work on it, and it now runs mid 12s with a perfect body and interior. With the $7000 dollars left over, I could probably make it do low-mid elevens....but really, like Gonthrax said, this is apples and oranges:)

Not to diss anyone but for $18,000 USD or @ $39,000 NZD you could pick an R32 GTR (89-94) for about $27,000 NZD. You put a megar $5,000 NZD into and that would put you into the mid 11's easy yet still very drivable. You have to love 4wd technology. And again apples to oranges :)

I know damn well that i dont smart off to an officer! Thats why im talking all my shit now! Because we all now that behind that lutenant uniform all their is, is alittle boy who's daddy takes care of! Thats right ill be getting punked out for 13 weeks of boot camp, but you know what, I CAN TAKE IT! YOU CANT! Thats why you joined the airforce! You cant do a damn thing to me, unless i talk shit while im in the military. "which i wont" Ill tell you one thing i aint no bitch, but i am smart! And I hate to see poor educated officers, were did you get your degree, hooked on phonics! And dont even come back and tell me that my grammer sucks, because ill tell you that it does. But i dont have a bachelors degree either! Oh and if you want to talk about high ranking family members, My great, great, great grandfather, was Robert E Lee. You know the general for the southern army! Oh yeah i got horns! one is going up your ass and the other is going up your girls! ha ha ha

Yup, I go to Western there in Bowling Green. I actualy applied for the position as a tour guide there but didn't get the job :(
Was the convention at the Hotel by the Hartland golf course? If so I'm sure I saw ya around there. I had to go check out all those pretty vettes.

Well you seem to know soooooooo much about the military and sooooooo little about maturity so I'll just let you be. And you seem to know soooooo much about me and my father that i'll just take your word for it.

BTW, I can guarantee I know more about your supposedly great grandfather Robert E. Lee. I'm sure I'm probably related to him and George Washington too.

BTW, we'll just have to see about all that other stuff. Until then try and grow up.

sure thing bob! Remember your arguing with a 17 year old, who's mature now!

Originally posted by YogsVR4
I can only see a red X - I know just as many people who've owned Japanese cars (me included) who fall apart after 49.99K miles so your comparison method is meaningless. Japanese cars are not better then an American built car. Its like people who still cling to the theory that the earth is flat. They just cant believe that its not true.

THANK YOU!!!!!

Originally posted by Gonthrax
Yup, I go to Western there in Bowling Green. I actualy applied for the position as a tour guide there but didn't get the job :(
Was the convention at the Hotel by the Hartland golf course? If so I'm sure I saw ya around there. I had to go check out all those pretty vettes.

I really wish they would hire actual car enthusiasts, it seems like a lot of kids are there just because they need money...not because they like cars. That may have been me...I stayed in a hotel that was close to a golf course, can't remember what it was called though

Both skylines and supras are capable of having 1300 hp and bein street legal. Juns street legal supra went 8 seconds in the 1/4th and had a top speed of around 250 mph. If a supra can do 8s a 1300 hp skyline can do 7s. Ive never herd of a street legal domestic bein under a 9 except for a corvette lingenfelter

tino its not nice to disturb the graves of long dead threads....they come back and haunt you

hi.

im a fan of certain imports and all muscle v8s.

supras are fast, 6 cylinders is alright, but i havent seen any 10 second street legal supra before. if there is a supra out there running 10 seconds then mad props to the owner but how much money has he spent? more than 20 g?

skylines...yea i love them. best import ever! yes ive seen them in the states but not many. good luck finding parts and waiting 2-3 months shipping from japan. where do u find a head gasket especially made for the rb at the time of the day u need it badly? hmmm so much money to make it fast.

4 cylinders. eclipse,honda,wrx,lancer. fast cars.... how strong is the drive train? haha pretty shitty huh? broke a front axle? did u run 25 pounds of boost and blew the heads? u broke another tranny? hmmm u cant run 10 secs on the road liek that....its gotta be reliable. 4 cylinders are commuter cars, just keep the way it is and no one will make fun of u.




yay muscle v8s. transmissions built for the toughest. engines that shake the ground. 10 second all motor easy. and still street legal. cruise at 25 mph. drop it in 2nd and O FUK!?!?!?! whut the hell was that. no one knows... its not a import. a v8.

Both skylines and supras are capable of having 1300 hp and bein street legal. Juns street legal supra went 8 seconds in the 1/4th and had a top speed of around 250 mph. If a supra can do 8s a 1300 hp skyline can do 7s. Ive never herd of a street legal domestic bein under a 9 except for a corvette lingenfelter

ok just shut up. 1300hp supras and skylines? yep they are running full race roll cage, fiberglass body, slicks, 1million punds of boost :smile: , and are super lightweight. i doubt youll only see 1 of them on the streets.........in america. i can see them daily driven in japan but i kno thoes people that drive that drive thoes supras and skylines in japan are rich. they are very well known, and are in thoes videos u dl from kazzaa.

v8 that runs at least 10 seconds...o baby yea street legal. bring it on import. ford and chevy rox