Out of the 6 below which is the best street car that can be track driven on the weekends (road course, not drag strip).

I'm looking not just for pure power, but handling, braking and good reliability with of course at least a bit of civility for everyday street driving (but just a bit).

My first choice was the WRX Sti, as I already own a WRX wagon, but I've read of a few reviews of the Evo and it seems very impressive on the track. The cobra is on the list because it has a 390bhp engine with good (if not great) handling and brakes.

Also, please give reasons and opinions for you choices.:bigthumb:

THANKS!

(BTW: I have them listed in order of my current preference).

1. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (EVO VIII)

2. Subaru Impreza WRX Sti

3. Nissan 350Z Track

4. Mazda RX-8 6MT

5. VW Golf R32

6. Ford Mustang Cobra

Well from what I have read...the Evo seems to outhandle the STi...but the STi has more torque and less turbo lag than the Evo...also the Evo has more precise steering but while the STi has a better overall drivetrain/tranny/etc

If it was just for road course action...Evo 1st...close 2nd to the STi...go drive both and see which one you like better

Other cars to look at are the Honda S2000 and BMW Z4. The biggest issue is that you will have to add a roll bar into the cost of the car if you're going to run it on the track, but the RWD feel of these on the track is better than anything else on the list.

Unless you like changing brake pads often, I wouldn't recommend the Mustang.

The only advantage the Golf has over any of the others is price.

If the car is a daily driver and the car will have to be driven in snow, then either the Lancer or the STi are the way to go. My preference would be for the STi because of the extra power and the driver controlled center differential, which is a quick adjustment to accomodate varying driving conditions.

Z4 is too expensive , any-how, no cabs. Hard-top only.

As far as test driving is concerned, it's hard to get a test drive in these cars. I've only driven the 350Z (but Touring model) and the Cobra. And then only on short street drives.

I was hoping some one with more time behind the wheel could gives us some advice.

Originally posted by WRX2.0TURBO
Out of the 6 below which is the best street car that can be track driven on the weekends (road course, not drag strip).

I'm looking not just for pure power, but handling, braking and good reliability with of course at least a bit of civility for everyday street driving (but just a bit).

My first choice was the WRX Sti, as I already own a WRX wagon, but I've read of a few reviews of the Evo and it seems very impressive on the track. The cobra is on the list because it has a 390bhp engine with good (if not great) handling and brakes.

Also, please give reasons and opinions for you choices.:bigthumb:

THANKS!

(BTW: I have them listed in order of my current preference).

1. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (EVO VIII)

2. Subaru Impreza WRX Sti

3. Nissan 350Z Track

4. Mazda RX-8 6MT

5. VW Golf R32

6. Ford Mustang Cobra




i totally agree with your list....the only thing i'm not sure about are the performances of the new VW 32......never read any details on that car..

I'd rule out the R32- no matter how smart the Auto Transmission- It just isn't as good as what you are comparing it with


The Mustang is a poorly designed piece of ancient rubbish compared to what you have listed.

If you want AWD thrills and traction- go STi (If you are in the US- the Evo VIII is just a V in drag over there- cost cutting excercise)

If you want RWD- then go 350Z- just my opinion there- I just think it looks better than the RX8- never driven the RX8 y'see

So STi or 350Z if you ask me

Originally posted by Jimster

If you want AWD thrills and traction- go STi (If you are in the US- the Evo VIII is just a V in drag over there- cost cutting excercise)




actaully every single tester picked the evo over the sti.....true by a very slight margin but still...the handling of the us evo is so good that on most tracks it will take the sti despite the power handicap

Originally posted by Neutrino



actaully every single tester picked the evo over the sti.....true by a very slight margin but still...the handling of the us evo is so good that on most tracks it will take the sti despite the power handicap


Yeah- but I just can't get over the whole damn cost-cutting excercise :redface:

I hate how they ruined the looks of the Evo VIII...they wanted to make it look more like the rest of their lineup...yuck

The Evo VII was not as ugly...the Evo VIII looks like something out of the Pontiac stable nowadays...

The most beautiful Evo was the Evo VI...bar none

If I had to choose based upon looks and performance...I'd go w/the STi

Why not Cobra? I am by no means a Ford Nazi, as I like MOPARS the best. But the Cobra is the fastest car on that list.
Even though it has less power, I would buy a Mach I over a Cobra. They are just awsome, ever heard one? The stock exhaust sounds mean! Not like GT's where you can't even hear it, it's F-ing loud and sounds WAY better than a GT cuz of the 4 valves per cylinder - it sounds cleaner too.

Originally posted by PWMAN
Why not Cobra? But the Cobra is the fastest car on that list.


As is stated above...this is for a ROAD COURSE...which not to say that the Cobra wouldnt do good at...but it would probably get beat by at least 3 of those cars on that list...so who wants to have a car that will have bad gas mileage, not last that long, and be a tank ?

Sure it's fast in a straight line and can brake pretty well...but the Evo and STi can do both of those things....and they dont weigh around 3500 lbs...and there's room in the back for the kiddies

Originally posted by Jimster



Yeah- but I just can't get over the whole damn cost-cutting excercise :redface:


yeah i hear you but i'm trying to be optimist and rationalise that by removing all the electronic nannies the car might present a more driver involved ride

Originally posted by NISSANSPDR


As is stated above...this is for a ROAD COURSE...which not to say that the Cobra wouldnt do good at...but it would probably get beat by at least 3 of those cars on that list...so who wants to have a car that will have bad gas mileage, not last that long, and be a tank ?

Sure it's fast in a straight line and can brake pretty well...but the Evo and STi can do both of those things....and they dont weigh around 3500 lbs...and there's room in the back for the kiddies

They only weigh about 3100 pounds:D
Sorry, I forgot it was road course while I was busy reading. Ummm, then my vote goes to the EVO.

if you mean brand new then likely the cobra, it's potential is leagues above the others and can be lightened a good bit, for such a boat it's got some potential for handling. If you just mean under 35K period, then easily a 98+ Fbody, in terms f handling, economy, engine performance and drivability it's got the rest beat.

Originally posted by FYRHWK1
if you mean brand new then likely the cobra, it's potential is leagues above the others and can be lightened a good bit, for such a boat it's got some potential for handling. If you just mean under 35K period, then easily a 98+ Fbody, in terms f handling, economy, engine performance and drivability it's got the rest beat.

The F Body is a good car for road courses.............If you like driving a cake of soap down a tiled floor:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Jimster


The F Body is a good car for road courses.............If you like driving a cake of soap down a tiled floor:rolleyes:

I'm willing to put a sizeable amount on that my car would outperform yours around a real roadcourse stock for stock, beyond that why dont you TELL me why it handles so badly? do you even know what kind of rear suspension it runs? how about the front? explain why it handles poorly, even though i'm able to outlap cars that are touted to be great handlers. people :rolleyes: you should try driving one before you make yourself look like an idiot.

Originally posted by FYRHWK1


I'm willing to put a sizeable amount on that my car would outperform yours around a real roadcourse stock for stock, beyond that why dont you TELL me why it handles so badly? do you even know what kind of rear suspension it runs? how about the front? explain why it handles poorly, even though i'm able to outlap cars that are touted to be great handlers. people :rolleyes: you should try driving one before you make yourself look like an idiot.

Well the front suspension of a recent model F-Body (The Camaro at least) is an independent setup- while the back is a live (:spit: ) rear axle (ie not independent)- both supported by anti-roll bars and :spit: Which I'm sorry is pathetic- a live rear axle has no place in any modern day sports car- I've hear people calling the Camaro's rear the "Best live axle on the market" but that's like saying that drug overdose is the best suicide if you get my drift- as far as I'm concerned IRS has me 0wned thank you very much.


I have driven one before- the latest SS and a '95 Z28 of the modern F-Body breed at least- I can say that I was unimpressed by both of them- the car was insecure around any turn more than 45 degrees- I found myself entering corners in my own car quicker than I was in the Camaro (This one being the Z28 some local redneck imported) sure- it can belt in the straights- but it aint any use to me anywhere else.

Maybe you could beat my car on a road course- but then again my car is a mid-market sports sedan- and probably cost a shit-load less too........Maybe once I do get myself a fun-car- then we can return to make that comparision- but until then......

Having also ridden in a Z28...I will also say that they are by no means a tight suspension'ed car...they feel real sloppy...and how can you say that stock vs. stock...it's better than the others (ie Evo, STi)?




BTW: Someone asked for the specs/numbers on the Golf R32...it's a 3.2 Liter that they use in the Phaeton in Germany...has about 236HP but problem is...it weighes around 3000-3200 lbs...too much for a 2 door Golf IMHO...and priced at around $30k-$32k...it's also too much for a Golf

Is there a reason the Audi TT isn't listed in there? Not that I am an Audi fan, but it fits the bill and should be able to run with any of those cars in the list.

Well the front suspension of a recent model F-Body (The Camaro at least) is an independent setup- while the back is a live ( ) rear axle (ie not independent)- both supported by anti-roll bars and Which I'm sorry is pathetic- a live rear axle has no place in any modern day sports car- I've hear people calling the Camaro's rear the "Best live axle on the market" but that's like saying that drug overdose is the best suicide if you get my drift- as far as I'm concerned IRS has me 0wned thank you very much.

Ahhh, the good old solid axle joke. Little hint, the only time soli axle is at a disadvantage is on rough courses, why you ask? because unless 1 wheel is at a large difference in height the contact patch size remains exactly the same. The few advantages of IRS don't change the fact that it can maintain a better contact patch size for both wheels over very rough terrain, things you DONT find on a roadcourse. IRS also reduces unsprung weight by mounting the diff to the chassis, a good thing, but it won't change much in anything below pro racing. Did I mention that solid axle designs gain traction due to bodyroll instead of losing it? See when IRS setups roll, the camber changes with it, reducing tire contact and traction. Soldi axle setups gain traction due ot the weight of the car being thrust onto the outside tire without any negative affects.

If you actually understood the differences, you'd realize this, but you dont and you're blinded by prejudice so i dont expect you to understand.

You also didn't answer my question, what type of SUSPENSION does the Fbody run? the live axle is just the drive wheel support. What type of locating does it use? springs? control arms? come on now, surely with all your bashing of it you understand it, kind of funny how the guy with the "inferior" axle is outrunning cars you claim it to be impossible on in a very lightly modded mullet mobile, also humorous i know more about your own suspension then you do.

Having also ridden in a Z28...I will also say that they are by no means a tight suspension'ed car...they feel real sloppy...and how can you say that stock vs. stock...it's better than the others (ie Evo, STi)?

Now I never said that, I said they have the potential to handle with them, the stock suspension on the Fbodies is a very cheap piece, most especially the Z28's (the SS' get new springs, bars and shocks, helps minimally) but they have the POTENTIAL to handle well. The 2 lower control arms and torque arm holding the axle in place are stamped pieces that flex and allow the axle to wander during turns, thats the biggest detriment to them, the transition in tight turns sucks because the suspension hardpoints are flexing and letting the axle do whatever it wants. They also get some incredibly low springrates and not nearly enough swaybar to make up for it. Stock for stock an evo or STi would take an Fbody out, even an SS, but where the Fbody has places to mod its suspension both those cars come with things stock (like SFCs, tubular or boxed control arms, all of which they come with stock I believe.)

About the TT, isn't it FWD? I thought it was built off of the beetle platform, it'd have a tough time competing if that weree the case.

Originally posted by FYRHWK1

You also didn't answer my question, what type of SUSPENSION does the Fbody run? the live axle is just the drive wheel support. What type of locating does it use? springs? control arms? come on now, surely with all your bashing of it you understand it, kind of funny how the guy with the "inferior" axle is outrunning cars you claim it to be impossible on in a very lightly modded mullet mobile, also humorous i know more about your own suspension then you do.


Uneven control arms up front- as far as I know it only uses springs down back- but I don't really care either- oh and the front and rear use coil springs another point worth mentioning it also has stabliser bars front and rear (As is neccasary in a sports car of that calibre)


Besides if Live Rear axle was going to give any handling advantages then why does the Corvette use IRS????

i never said it was better overall, i was simply making a point that the reason for its handling problems is not the solid axle. In general for a track only car, solid rear axles can work fine since most tracks are smooth enough that its differing height problems dont come up, the street and rough courses are another matter completely and obviously IRS will excel there.

Only uses springs in the rear? :lol: those would do a great job of transmitting tire thrust into forward motion, who doesnt want all of their forward force being soaked up my coil springs? :spit:

No, It uses a 3 link rear locating system, 2 lower control arms that mount halfway down each axle tube and a differential mounted torque arm that attatches to the transmission or chassis, chassis mount are aftermarket. It also uses a panhard bar in order to keep the axle located centrally to the vehicle, so it doesnt step out to the left or right during hard turns. Unfortunatly this piece too is stamped stock and can let the axle do whatever it wants to given enough force, it's so weak the high amount of traction these cars have stock is enough to flex it, and having your rear axle located an inch out of place does not lead to good handling. All in all, its the best system available for solid axle, i'm not positive on this and if someone could correct me please do, but i believe the solid axle F1 cars (De Dion actually) used this same system.

Plus on a side note, independant suspensions have better ride quality then solids, less unsprung weight doesnt jolt the passenger compartment or require stiff springs in order to keep the axles inertia from carrying it off the ground on a hard bump.

So....your saying an F-body with several thousand dollars worth of suspension changes will handle good on a smooth track?:lol:

Originally posted by FYRHWK1
i never said it was better overall, i was simply making a point that the reason for its handling problems is not the solid axle. In general for a track only car, solid rear axles can work fine since most tracks are smooth enough that its differing height problems dont come up, the street and rough courses are another matter completely and obviously IRS will excel there.

Only uses springs in the rear? :lol: those would do a great job of transmitting tire thrust into forward motion, who doesnt want all of their forward force being soaked up my coil springs? :spit:

No, It uses a 3 link rear locating system, 2 lower control arms that mount halfway down each axle tube and a differential mounted torque arm that attatches to the transmission or chassis, chassis mount are aftermarket. It also uses a panhard bar in order to keep the axle located centrally to the vehicle, so it doesnt step out to the left or right during hard turns. Unfortunatly this piece too is stamped stock and can let the axle do whatever it wants to given enough force, it's so weak the high amount of traction these cars have stock is enough to flex it, and having your rear axle located an inch out of place does not lead to good handling. All in all, its the best system available for solid axle, i'm not positive on this and if someone could correct me please do, but i believe the solid axle F1 cars (De Dion actually) used this same system.

Plus on a side note, independant suspensions have better ride quality then solids, less unsprung weight doesnt jolt the passenger compartment or require stiff springs in order to keep the axles inertia from carrying it off the ground on a hard bump.

I was never implying there were just springs (Though I can't blame you for getting that impression) just never knew much further than that in terms of the rear suspension.

Theres a guy here that just got a new Evo and he already blew the engine...

Originally posted by dayna240sx
Theres a guy here that just got a new Evo and he already blew the engine...

LMG- a silly little kid who just saw 2F2F and blew his engine up after using too much NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWZZZZZZZ*








*I have never seen 2F2F and don't intend to- so I don't know if the Evo actually used Nitrous during the movie:wink:

Originally posted by 1320B4U
So....your saying an F-body with several thousand dollars worth of suspension changes will handle good on a smooth track?:lol:

try 3-400 total for all necessary parts, I built my own LCAs and panhard bar while the torque arm only cost me $150, all in all about 275-300 for my, more if you buy the pieces. For roughly 1200 i could get you an Fbody that will handle as good as the tires you put on it allow, thats the beauty of a ponycar, everythings cheap and if you arent a dipshit (not implying anyone here is) you can install it yourself. As to the smooth track, don't think IRS equipped cars arent subject to problems either, bump steer on stock cars is not very well controlled, cars like the M3 are subject to this (theres more but that one sticks out in my mind) and it has its own problems.

Originally posted by dayna240sx
Theres a guy here that just got a new Evo and he already blew the engine...

a guy on AF?....wtf...some people should not be alowed to have sweet cars like the evo.....


btw when i was a little while ago at a mitsubishi dealership i heard this guy asking if he could run the evo on 87 octane.....i wanted to smack him:slap:.....what is wrong wth people...

Originally posted by Neutrino





btw when i was a little while ago at a mitsubishi dealership i heard this guy asking if he could run the evo on 87 octane.....i wanted to smack him:slap:.....what is wrong wth people...

w3rd was his other ride a rusty 80's Chevy pick up??? or was he just a stupid little Hondork with too much money?????

Originally posted by Jimster


w3rd was his other ride a rusty 80's Chevy pick up??? or was he just a stupid little Hondork with too much money?????

i'll take option #2.......there is nothing worse that some guy that hears that a car is a good performer....pays 30K for it and then wants to save 30 cents when refueling and ends up blowing his engine.....goes back to the dealership to fix it under waranty....mitshubishi gets pissed at fixin' too many idiots' cars and no more evo's on the US market.....leaving true enthusiasts:angryfire