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MFH terminating Ferrari kit sales


RonCla
10-13-2013, 08:16 PM
I've just come from Model Factory Hiros' website and there is an announcement that they are terminating all sales of Ferrari kits with immediate effect.

I don't know what has led to this or what will become of kits they are holding in stock.

This will mean their Ferrari Lusso wont see the light of day.


<End of sale for 1/20 & 1/24 scale FERRARI Kit>
Thank you for buying from and supporting us.
We are regret to announce that we are going to terminate the sale of all FERRARI 1/20 and 1/24 scale models with immediate effect.
For all sold FERRARI kits, we will still supporting after the termination of sale.
We will keep you updated when new projects are coming out.
2013.10.12 Model Factory Hiro

http://www.modelfactoryhiro.com/new/en

JeremyJon
10-13-2013, 08:46 PM
Ferrari lawyer scum, they went after the Ferrari owners clubs (true story) to stop them using the logos & names without paying, but expected cost was insane!

lovegt40
10-14-2013, 09:16 AM
they strike back.
few thrust me when I try advise of the power (incredible power) of the lawers dept. from Fiat auto Group...

and the scary stuff is that they are even more powerful than people can think, Worldwide of course.

da_ashman
10-14-2013, 07:37 PM
So that effectively halfs their product line! Poor MFH, hopefully they will seek a license

da_ashman
10-14-2013, 07:42 PM
On the plus side if youve got an unbuilt MFH Ferrari the value just sky rocketed!!!

freakray
10-14-2013, 09:59 PM
On the real plus side, maybe MFH will turn their attention to some of the cars that are just as desirable but haven't received the attention they deserve.

CrateCruncher
10-14-2013, 10:58 PM
This is terrible news. I hope it's just a hissy fit or negotiation tactic but it doesn't sound like it. They still show some Alfa kits in stock so let's hope it's isolated and they continue to make other Fiat brands.

360spider
10-14-2013, 11:48 PM
Unexpected? Yes. Surprising? Hardly. Sucks, even though I have most of their Ferrari kits, I still wanted to buy another TdF and 330 LMB... on well. Just looked on eBay, and there are very few kits there...

JeremyJon
10-15-2013, 01:13 AM
I've learned some more facts (thanks Marshall), turns out MFH did have some licensing agreement in place with Ferrari, and that has expired, so the likely scenario now is that the new expected fees were just to high to renew

This is pretty consistent now with most automotive entities, even Monogram with it's bank tire sidewalls & dropping Nascar products all together

Sadly, most automotive product manufacturers now outsource their legal copyright & licensing to independent law firms, and as such are not only aggressive in their actions - so they can in turn bill more to their clients, but also they are not negotiable in terms of licensing fees, like dealing directly with a manufacturer might be?

Vric
10-15-2013, 09:00 AM
I feel a little bit less gilty to have so many mfh kit in my stack.

MPWR
10-15-2013, 09:30 AM
It makes it that much harder to be enthusiastic about the Ferrari brand. :disappoin :dunno:

sam01contact
10-15-2013, 12:01 PM
I feel a little bit less gilty to have so many mfh kit in my stack.

Same here, but I also think I should have bought more :biggrin:

mattbacon
10-15-2013, 04:34 PM
Given the extortionate prices of MFH kits (worth every penny, I'm sure) I can't believe that their buyers are THAT price-sensitive. Even if Ferrari wanted $20 per kit license fees, most MFH buyers would still pay, wouldn't they? If Revell is paying the license on kits that they sell for 15, it can't be unaffordable... Maybe they want it all up front for a five year license, and MFH just doesn't have the cash.

If McLaren, Aston Martin and Porsche step in and say that they'll not only waive license fees but give factory support for MFH's kits, then maybe Ferrari will get the message!

bestest,
M.

Robi J
10-15-2013, 04:37 PM
it makes it that much harder to be enthusiastic about the ferrari brand. :disappoin :dunno:

+1 :)

nascar49
10-15-2013, 06:48 PM
If McLaren, Aston Martin and Porsche step in and say that they'll not only waive license fees but give factory support for MFH's kits, then maybe Ferrari will get the message!

bestest,
M.

Never going to happen

360spider
10-16-2013, 12:05 AM
I'm sure the situation will be resolved, somehow. If not with licensing, then maybe MFH will seek a sub-license. Or maybe even make under 200 copies, which require no license, if I remember correctly. Not sure how profitable that would be, but then again, they could probably sell it for much more too.

lovegt40
10-17-2013, 04:31 AM
probably its just porsche, aston and others wellknow they can ask only less money for royalties..
according to what I know (one of those ferrari lawers is my client..) the number under which u dont have any problem is 9, counting the master as 10th piece.
Oneoff models are also under same laws.
from the no. 11 u will pay all, thrust me...

F1Tommy
10-17-2013, 10:32 AM
probably its just porsche, aston and others wellknow they can ask only less money for royalties..
according to what I know (one of those ferrari lawers is my client..) the number under which u dont have any problem is 9, counting the master as 10th piece.
Oneoff models are also under same laws.
from the no. 11 u will pay all, thrust me...

It's not 9 in the USA. They had a court case settle in the US with a number in the 100's. The company lawyers lost as it was found to be considered art.............


That has nothing to do with Hiro as they were licensed. Maybe Hiro just burned out the 1/24th and 1/20th Ferrari market making it not profitable to renew. I bet they still license Ferrari models in 1/43rd and 1/12th scale.

SmokeyR67
10-18-2013, 12:26 AM
While it's a pity that car manufacturers have taken this route, it's understandable that they want to protect their brand.

What annoys me is the likes of Boeing wanting cash to licence the P-51, when the development and production was paid for by the public, and all Boeing did was buy NA!

hirofkd
10-18-2013, 07:50 AM
It's not 9 in the USA. They had a court case settle in the US with a number in the 100's. The company lawyers lost as it was found to be considered art.............

That doesn't sound right when one piece of art can violate the copyright. What's the name of the case? I want to read the argument.

JeremyJon
10-18-2013, 10:03 PM
This is covered by the Lanham Act as well as various other trademark/copyright laws, can look it up on the net or look it up in those West Law books

spotmodel
10-22-2013, 10:28 AM
Given the extortionate prices of MFH kits (worth every penny, I'm sure) I can't believe that their buyers are THAT price-sensitive. Even if Ferrari wanted $20 per kit license fees, most MFH buyers would still pay, wouldn't they? If Revell is paying the license on kits that they sell for 15, it can't be unaffordable... Maybe they want it all up front for a five year license, and MFH just doesn't have the cash.

If McLaren, Aston Martin and Porsche step in and say that they'll not only waive license fees but give factory support for MFH's kits, then maybe Ferrari will get the message!

bestest,
M.

Ferrari licence fees are about 25 to 30% on total product prices. On a MFH kit on 300USD the fees will go to 100USD. It is a lot of money. :jerking:

CrateCruncher
10-22-2013, 11:36 AM
Ferrari licence fees are about 25 to 30% on total product prices. On a MFH kit on 300USD the fees will go to 100USD. It is a lot of money. :jerking:

That's outrageous!:eek7: I heard Ferrari were becoming more aggressive but I had no idea they could be asking for that large a bite. Do you have a source?

I think I've just decided to stop buying Ferrari models! Hello Lotus, Jaguar, Porsche, Alfa, Lamborghini, Aston, BMW, Ducati, etc.

spotmodel
10-22-2013, 12:11 PM
That's outrageous!:eek7: I heard Ferrari were becoming more aggressive but I had no idea they could be asking for that large a bite. Do you have a source?

I think I've just decided to stop buying Ferrari models! Hello Lotus, Jaguar, Porsche, Alfa, Lamborghini, Aston, BMW, Ducati, etc.

I have been on a hobby kits manufacturer about 2 years ago, they told me about the expensive fees on Ferrari, about the difficults on RB, ... Ferrari is the most expensive about fees because Ferrari models are really good selling.

lovegt40
10-22-2013, 01:24 PM
valid also for prancing horse, the red color (s), the Yellow color (s) the car name (s), the name ENZO and so on.

SmokeyR67
10-23-2013, 03:15 AM
Ferrari licence fees are about 25 to 30% on total product prices. On a MFH kit on 300USD the fees will go to 100USD. It is a lot of money. :jerking:
IP is expensive, why should a model manufacturer get to cash in on the work of another company?

roymattblack
10-23-2013, 04:58 AM
I agree though that licensing fees are through the roof.
Even the giants such as Tamiya don't have Goodyear decals any longer for the same reason.

Roy.

JeremyJon
10-23-2013, 06:02 AM
The expensive licensing fees, is just going to drive the scale model products underground, more 'cottage industry' level products
It won't be as convenient to purchase, but still we see even now, decals for race cars & tires, being done by fellow modelers, in order to pick up the need

jano11
10-23-2013, 01:50 PM
IP is expensive, why should a model manufacturer get to cash in on the work of another company?

It is only about the Ferrari brand.
If I remember right there is a limitation on how long Intellectual Property / patents can be protected, I think it is 30 years, after that there is nothing they can do about it, it is free to be used by everyone as they wish.
So as long as you sell the kits as 'Classic sport car kit' instead of Ferrari XYZ you are good to go.

petesy
10-24-2013, 02:32 AM
It is only about the Ferrari brand.
If I remember right there is a limitation on how long Intellectual Property / patents can be protected, I think it is 30 years, after that there is nothing they can do about it, it is free to be used by everyone as they wish.
So as long as you sell the kits as 'Classic sport car kit' instead of Ferrari XYZ you are good to go.
It is not that simple. Car designs can be covered under patent, copyright and trademark. Not all of them expire in 20 years.

seanyb505
10-24-2013, 07:27 AM
Shelby was continually taking Cobra kit car manufacturers to court. I know a few years ago he lost to the biggest, Factory Five Racing. I don't remember the exact case but it had to do with producing the same shape. FFR was very aware not to use the cobra or Daytona names. I think after a certain time the classic sports car should work.

SmokeyR67
10-27-2013, 08:01 AM
It is only about the Ferrari brand.
If I remember right there is a limitation on how long Intellectual Property / patents can be protected, I think it is 30 years, after that there is nothing they can do about it, it is free to be used by everyone as they wish.
So as long as you sell the kits as 'Classic sport car kit' instead of Ferrari XYZ you are good to go.

There is a "statute of limitations" on how long the designs' protected, I suppose it depends on where you are applying the law.

Personally, while I understand why they don't want every tom dick and harry using their designs as a cash cow, I also think that plastic models are a great way to promote their product, and as such the model manufacturers should be charging Ferrari et al for the advertising:)

I knew nothing about Ferrari until I was given a toy one for Christmas many moons ago, and that started a 40 odd year (and counting) love affair with the brand:)

CrateCruncher
10-28-2013, 11:10 PM
Personally, while I understand why they don't want every tom dick and harry using their designs as a cash cow, I also think that plastic models are a great way to promote their product, and as such the model manufacturers should be charging Ferrari et al for the advertising:)

I knew nothing about Ferrari until I was given a toy one for Christmas many moons ago, and that started a 40 odd year (and counting) love affair with the brand:)

Ferrari isn't really a car company. Ferrari is a merchandising company that uses a global F1 Team for their promotion and builds 7,000 cars a year as a hobby. Think about it. How much money can you make off selling 7,000 cars a year? A typical auto plant can make that many cars in ONE DAY!
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100720177

360spider
10-30-2013, 08:27 PM
Ferrari isn't really a car company. Ferrari is a merchandising company that uses a global F1 Team for their promotion and builds 7,000 cars a year as a hobby. Think about it. How much money can you make off selling 7,000 cars a year? A typical auto plant can make that many cars in ONE DAY!
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100720177

Even if you sell each car for $100,000 - its $700,000,000 - not a chump change. And obviously some of them cost way more than $100K. So I'd say its a good business. But overall, you are right of course. It has been that way since late 1970's. So, no surprise really?

lovegt40
10-31-2013, 05:40 AM
LOL, I love all the kinda BS I can read here.. :D.
For ONE time italians can play as all america did since a lifetime allover its "soo vital and important firms", read as jeep, coca cola, ford, apple (LOL..apple !!), microsft and so on..

love u all guys, really...

jano11
10-31-2013, 09:50 AM
LOL, I love all the kinda BS I can read here.. :D.
For ONE time italians can play as all america did since a lifetime allover its "soo vital and important firms", read as jeep, coca cola, ford, apple (LOL..apple !!), microsft and so on..

love u all guys, really...

I hope you are just kidding, and you didn't mean this BS you posted.
No corporation is better be it American, Italian or any other country based.

CrateCruncher
10-31-2013, 02:53 PM
Ferrari isn't really a car company. Ferrari is a merchandising company that uses a global F1 Team for their promotion and builds 7,000 cars a year as a hobby.

I didn't mean to offend anyone but Ferrari is a bizarre entity in the context of global car manufacturing. I love the Ferrari heritage and all the beautiful cars created as a result of this fantastic icon. But even Enzo Ferrari himself saw passenger car production as a distraction from his true passion of racing. It's well documented he made cars for others only to satisfy homologation and pay his racing bills. I would argue that's the genesis of Ferrari's exclusivity. By only allowing a trickle of production at outrageous prices the brand became exclusive to the extreme attracting only the most rich and famous of the world.

But that's also the problem as a car business. Modern car production requires huge volumes because the up-front costs are the same whether you build 7,000 or 7 million. But if you are Ferrari you simply can't make more cars or you lose the very thing that makes it so attractive: exclusivity.

I don't know exactly what the average price of Ferrari's cars but even if I double Alex's figure it's not enough. 7,000 vehicles a year X $200,000 = $1.4 Billion in revenue. From that you have to subtract the cost of design, global emissions/crash testing, tooling, a global parts and service network, and the unit cost of manufacturing each car too. Then you have the cost of a global f1 team. Needless to say that $1.4B in car sales revenue probably isn't enough to cover half of that. Parent Fiat can help share the cost of some of that but it's by no means free.

I think the brand is becoming much more dependent on the revenue streams from merchandising/licensing each year to cover it's car production bills. That was what I meant to imply earlier.:smile:

MPWR
10-31-2013, 06:55 PM
Ferrari isn't really a car company. Ferrari is a merchandising company that uses a global F1 Team for their promotion and builds 7,000 cars a year as a hobby.

So very, very true.

I was at the Maranello factory earlier this month, and took the tour (at least, the little bit they are willing to show to the public). One of the things the guide stated was that in 2013, Ferrari made/sold too many cars. In 2014, it has been decided that output will be trimmed back. What other car manufacturer more than has the capability, but decides that they are simply not interested in making more?

They are not a car manufacturer. They are a self sustaining global brand empire- that happens to make cars as a sideline. Kind of like Disney happens to make cartoons- but marketing Disney CRAP is what the empire is really built on.

Pilgrimage complete, box checked off. But a quick travel tip- if you happen to be in that part of the world, the BMW museum and factory are a whole lot more fun.

lovegt40
11-01-2013, 04:50 AM
Porsche museum too....

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