Windstar '99 Consuming 1 qt/1000 miles

The oil is really disappearing on this one. I took the plastic valve cover off and inspected the egr ports, two were somewhat clogged, but the rest were okay. Some light oil film on the inside. The pcv valve may not be sealing properly, when I suck on it, I still get a little bit of flow, should this be airtight? I am going to go ahead and change the pcv valve to a motorcraft, but what are the chances that these minor issues, once resolved, will solve the problem? I understand these have a lower intake manifold gasket issue which is probably the problem, is there any way to ensure that is the case, would not want to go through all the trouble to find out it is something else. No oil in coolant, no excessive smoke out the tailpipe, no leaks on the exterior, car passed emissions inspection two months ago.

Oil consumption could point to the PCV as you've checked, but it could also be due to either blow-by or leakage at the valve seal and valve guide. It might be necessary to remove the heads and insert new guides. The Ford Service manual gives a specification for the maximum lateral movement of the valve within the valve guide. Checking the plugs for oil contamination is a good first step for isolating the location of the oil leak(s).

An external sign of oil getting into the cylinders is a black spot of the ground under tailpipe if the engine is run without moving the vehicle.

1 qt/1000 miles may seem like a huge leak, but if you engine has a lot of miles, that is very likely just normal wear.

it could also be that faulty Valve cover on the front allowing oil to be picked up by the pcv valve. it was part of the p0171&p0174 fix i bought the kit from dorman and it came with everything (port seals,valve cover and gasket, isolator bolts, throttle body gasket,IAC gasket,upper plenum gasket,new pcv valve and hose,fuel pressure vacuum hose) all in one kit took me 2 hrs to do the repair and van runs great and no use of oil and or CEL Codes

The 3.8 only has 130,000 miles on it and didn't consume any oil at all up until the point where it just starting burning it up all of a sudden. The bolt replacement was done by the dealer before I got the car (6 years ago) and it looks like there is a baffle at the pcv inlet. Like I said, not much oil, just a film, on the inside of the top cover. I went ahead and sprung the $12! for the MC pcv valve anyway, we'll see how that goes. While there, I spoke to the service manager who said he is 90% sure that the leak is the lower intake manifold gasket and said he rarely sees the valve guide seals needing replacement, though there was a TSB on it early on, just not nearly as common as the gasket. I got an off the cuff estimate for the gasket replacement of $1500! I can buy alot of oil for that.

Yes, your mileage is much lower than mine (315k), so long term wear issues (like the valve guides) is not as likely.

I've done the lower intake gasket myself, the only problem was removal of the bolts securing the manifold (a couple rounded over in the process of removal).

I don't think the lower intake has any pressurized oil passages, so oil would have to be transported over that gasket by crankcase pressure or intake vacuum.

I found this on a BMW discussion forum, that might help you in finding the cause of your oil consumption problem:
I'm not going to argue about what causes oil consumption and what not. Most I6s develop the problem, and most do not share the same cause. Let's not assume it's the CCV, or the seals, or a leak, or lack of vacuum. Could be any of those, or several things put together.

I have said this in many oil burning threads, and I will say it again, as it's fairly simple to rule out a few things right from the beginning:

From cheap/free to expensive:

1. When does it burn oil? Short city commute or long highway trips? Or both? If it's only in city the valve seals could be the culprit.
2. Have you done a dry and wet compression test? This will evidence valves or piston rings not sealing properly.
3. Are you 100% positively, completely, absolutely sure there are no leaks?
4. If you remove the oil cap with the car idling and place a piece of plastic bag over it, what happens? Slight suction (good)? Strong suction (bad)? No suction or the bag blows away (bad)?
5. Clean the frigging dipstick tube drains.

Until now it has all been extremely cheap or free. Only after you have checked the above, you can continue with:

6. Check or replace CCV, along with all hoses attached to it.
7. Get a new set of valve stem seals and change them. When I did it the car also needed new valve guides.

I don't buy the "if the engine is not above X mileage, it's not the valve seals". In my case my car had less than 100k when I did the repair and it worked, so it's not about mileage. I also went through all those checks I pointed.

Only you can decide if you want to spend money on that or not. Chances are it will reduce or eliminate the oil burning, but there is a possibility that it stays the same. That's the reason you should discard virtually everything else.

http://images.bimmerforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by motion http://images.bimmerforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=25351639#post25351639)
E39Status's problem may or not be valve seals, valve guide wear, excessive heat, quality of oil maintenance, etc., can affect the seals, once the seals harden they're subject to bypassing oil vapors, exhaust gases whatever can pass by the guides. At shutdown whatever oil comes down the valve stems burns off at start up.


This is exactly what happens when valve seals go bad, and that's why it's more evident during short trips and city driving. You tend to shut down and start the car a lot more, allowing for the engine to cool down, contract and start leaking through the seals. Once it's hot, the valves seal again.

I wonder if one of the oil additives that swell gaskets would work for the lower intake? The Ford guy says sometimes the mating surfaces are affected, making it a bigger job than just changing these gaskets.

have you sent a sample to blackstone labs for their review?

I got the sample for blackstone, just need to send it.

I wonder if one of the oil additives that swell gaskets would work for the lower intake? The Ford guy says sometimes the mating surfaces are affected, making it a bigger job than just changing these gaskets.

If they even work, it's only on seals. Gaskets have to be replaced.

FYI, I just disassembled the engine on my 3.8 L '96 down to the heads... there is significant corrosion on the mating faces of the heads. It's hard to judge how deep the corrosion goes, but I'd guess its is more that 0.003", but less than 0.010".

My 01 windstar was using about 1qt every two weeks
fixed this issue by replacing the lower intake gaskets.
look at this video
http://youtu.be/tc_z4vPGVNs (http://youtu.be/tc_z4vPGVNs)

It looks like the lower intake gaskets were replaced on this vehicle in 2004 at 60,000 miles. I am probably going to go at it soon. I plan on using the expensive fel pro gasket MS98011T-1.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_intake-manifold-gasket-set-felpro_15781031-p?searchTerm=intake+manifold

I have done the plugs and wires to date and plan to clean up the throttle body. Anything else I should do while I got everything disassembled? I do not have valve cover leaks, but should I do those anyway? What about the fuel rail, anything to do there?

I bought a gasket set that came with all the gaskets to do the top part of the engine, it also came with the injectors o-rings, but it did not include the gaskets for the plenum, its not a biggy to pull the fuel rail the hose is very flexible, i think u have to take 4 8mm bolts and just move the rail to the site. all it took me about 3-4 hours. I did not replaced the valve cover gaskets since they were not leaking.

Sounds good. I will probably start today and do it in parts. I have the Haynes, the Ford CD with manuals, and I have seen your video. The dealer wanted $1500 for this job, believe it or not, this is the Ford on Route 1 South just south of Alexandria.

1. Will the fuel injector orings (two per injector) need to be replaced or can they just be reused?
2. Is a special tool required to disconnect the injectors, or will a screwdriver do? If a tool, can you link to it on advance auto?

One O-ring per injector, no especial tools to get them out of the intake manifold, after taking the 4 bolts that hold the fuel rail to the manifold, just pull them out, at first they feel hard to pull but just take your time.
I think u can get the O-rings at advance auto, wont cost you more than $5

I thought the Haynes said 2 per injector, maybe it is another engine. I saw you replacing them in the video. I think the dealer was assuming the lower intake may need replacing, I guess that will be apparent when I take it off. I believe some people just fill in the gaps if some of the aluminum has been eaten out by the coolant.