92 Euro stalling/no start etc please advise

Hello everyone. I am a newbie who knows little about cars. I purchased a 92 Lumina Euro with a 3.1 and 101,400 miles on it a little over two weeks ago. It has been having problems since I got it.

It stalls intermittently, typically after I drive to work, shut it off for two hours, and then start it to go to my next client(home health aid) sometimes it stalls right after starting it then, and/or sometimes when put in reverse and/or drive and occasionally at stops signs after the aforementioned problems occur. It has also stalled out twice after highway driving after the car is shut off and started shortly afterwards, for instance, when I ran into a tobacco store for some cigs.. After the problem occurs it usually drives ok if I continue to drive it awhile even if I shut it off for a short time and restart.. I added some fuel injector cleaner when I filled the tank but it didn't help.

After about a week of the stalling issues the car refused to start after dying and didn't start for two or three days. As I was unable to get an answer from the dealer my step-father, who went with me when I bought the car, called him and he said if I could get the car there he would fix it. So I borrowed a bundle to have it towed the 25 miles or so to the small town car lot.

His mechanic supposedly fixed it by replacing the TPS and the dealer informed me that they had cleaned the throttle body before I bought it and apparently the TPS needed replaced to. However the issues again started after one day of it running fine. I tired to get a hold of this guy again and again I get the voice mail and no return call so as soon as I got off work I drove it over there and again he said he would fix it. He had it for three days and I again tried to get a hold of him without success and he again answered the phone for my step-dad and told him they had ordered some kind of module that would be in Monday. So Wednesday he calls me and tells me that they didn't replace this module because when they took it out it tested good five times but they noticed some gunk build up at the contacts of the wires that hook to the module and now the car was fixed. Why did they order the part before testing??? This doesn't make sense so it throws doubt on what the man said. I went to get the car and when I got back to my town and went to get those cigs it died twice after restart and put into reverse. That was two days ago and it has been dying once or twice each day since then although it is somewhat better than before as it isn't taking as long for the idle to even out at sufficient rpms after I throttle it at idle or drive awhile BUT now it seems to be sucking the gas hard and I am wondering if this guy just did some jerry-rigging because he sure isn't fixing it.

So, I tried to call him again a couple times and goes to voice mail so my step dad called and got him and the guy said the car was fixed that it was running just fine when it was at his shop and the computer showed no codes as if that proved the car was fine. My dad chewed him out as he misrepresented this as a good car that he drove to work because he liked it so much and a one person owner(not) etc etc.My dad threatened to go to the states attorney and the guy ended up saying he would fix it or get someone else to do it if he can't but he can't do it till Tuesday because he is out of town but I don't know if I want to give it back to him again after all the bs and now the gas guzzling. It's just I don't have the money to take it to a mechanic and I don't know how to work on cars or have the tools needed to even try simple things arrghhh. My dad/step dad is in his eighties and knew how to work on tractors back in the day but doesn't know about this modern sh#* so he can't fix it or he would. I think the guy is just altering the conditions a little bit in order to make it seem fixed and hoping I will get tired of driving or towing over there and just take it somewhere else as I would right away if I had the money. Also I still owe this guy money on the car---arggh.

Sorry for the long ramble but this is so stressful and depressing. I did make an appointment with a local mechanic for Sept 13 but I really don't have the money for it. I am not sure I want to take it back to the dealer at all anymore because I now have no trust in him.I guess I am just wanting some moral support/advice and any info about this problem that I can get to help when I speak with the blasted car dealer or the local mechanic about it.

A few more details. The rpms drop rapidly when this occurs, it has a couple of times had a rough idle at the same time but more often the rpms drop and it dies.Sometimes if I use the throttle and keep it up around 1000 rpms for a short time it won't die. I have smelt a burnt smell a couple times when I shut the car off, like electric burnt, not oil burnt or stinky exhaust. Lets see, I felt a very brief loss of power feeling when driving on the highway on two different occasions, so brief that it was barely discernable. It runs over the halfway point on the temp gauge after driving awhile in town, seems a little hot to me but I read these cars don't kick on the fan till 220. Sometimes the rpm bobs a little up and down at idle and slow speeds and once the battery power dropped and popped right back up when it was idling funny and when it had that no start an acquaintance tested it by putting a screwdriver in a plug wire and pointing it towards the engine as I cranked it and he said it had no spark and it did crank every time I tried to start it during the no-start condition. It has also done a bit of surging from time to time when the prob happens. The car is recovering from the stall condition quicker than it did before since this last "fix" but still stalling.

I don't have the tools or knowledge to do any of the diagnostic tests I have seen recommended on this and other forums but any info would be useful, especially anyone who solved a similar problem.

Thanks much.

Stop smoking, use the money you spend on cigarettes to pay for the small-claims court fees. Have the sheriff serve the papers--the price is reasonable (at least it is here) and the psychological value is well worth it.

The dealership that sold the car will be more motivated to actually fix it when they know they're going to court if you aren't happy.

Thanks for the advice.

I just wrote a longer reply and unfortunately it got lost before posted and I am too tired to write it all again so I will shorten it.

The car hasn't stalled out for the past few days though the idle has been slightly rough at times and the rpms have bobbed up and down slightly occasionally at idle. Last night as I was exiting off the highway the service engine soon light came on. It wasn't lit today but I used a paper clip to jump the interface and got code 32 EGR circuit.

I am going to take it back to the dealer one more time since there were two issues going on and they could have legitimately missed this one since there was no service engine light and I assume no code previously.

Questions: What kinds of issues might be going on with this code and could it cause reduced gas mileage and the symptoms I have described?

Thanks again.

EGR could well produce most of what I read (sorry it glazed me over after a while....) but stalling, surging, rolling idle, refusing to start, etc can all be produced by the EGR if it's sticking in bore...that creates a huge vacuum leak, and the motor will hunt for idle speed, stall, no-start, or lose power, depending on what's going on at that moment because of it.

First of all...if the EGR is causing the no-start because it's stuck open, holding the throttle at about 1/2 open while cranking should overcome the vacuum leak being caused, and the motor will start and race, but may not idle when you back off the throttle...have you ever tried giving it gas when it won't start? That would tell me something.

What I would try first, if it were mine, is simply disconnecting the EGR valve's wiring (and possibly a vacuum line, can't remember on one that old) when the car seems to be running ok...that will prevent it from opening the EGR, so if that's the source of the problem, it shouldn't occur anymore. Yes, it will set the check engine light if it's not plugged in. But it won't effect how it runs, other than perhaps getting rid of your problem temporarily.

If you can't catch the car at a time when it is running well to try it, sometimes a sharp tap on the EGR valve with a small hammer or other tool will knock the sticking pintle out of the position it's stuck in, and the motor will begin to run better. If that were the case, that would be the time to disconnect the wiring, while the valve is seated closed.

The EGR is a very easy fix, so it would be good if that were the issue here. You could leave it disconnected as long as the car doesn't have to pass an emissions inspection, or replace it...it's very accessible. If the exhaust passages leading to it were badly crapped up, I'd clean that up before putting a new one on, or it will happen again. More on that if it becomes necessary.

There are two other possibilities here....

One is the ECM(computer)....those late 80's, early 90's ECM's were problems....some times, you can do a "tap test" on the top cover to try to induce a stall....

The other thing could be, that the vehicle just needs an "idle learn" procedure....If the battery was ever disconnected, the ECM needs this procedure.....

A scan tool can do this, or it can be done manually.....

You clean the throttle plate and bore thoroughly...you remove the IAC(idle air control), clean the pintle and the mating passageway....then you disconnect the battery(just the negative cable for a few minutes...the key can not be in the ignition while doing this)......reconnect the battery.....apply ebrake or block rear wheels, start car, and put it in drive, hold foot on the brake, let it idle until you get to normal operating temp(do this on a cold engine, or engine that is warm and not recently started)....then shut vehicle off, wait 5 seconds, start car and put in drive again with foot on brake...run for a bout 5 minutes , then shut off....now the ECM should have learned the IAC position and shouldn't stall....

Thanks Jeffcoslacker and Tech II, for taking the time to write detailed answers for my questions.

I took the car back to the dealer one more time. He said the EGR gasket was blown and the EGR was clogged so he replaced the gasket and cleaned the EGR and also replaced the coolant temp sensor and when I drove it home on the interstate around 3/4 of the way home it began to surge after going up a hill and was then doing 60 mph without my foot on the gas. I had to down shift it and fight with it to get it to slow down and stop at the exit and then it was surging in town too. I decided then the next trip back would be for my money.

So Monday back I went and he gave me my money minus tax, title, plates. I bought a 91 Chevy Cavalier with 76,500 miles from a private party and it is running great.

I wish I could know what the problem(s) with the Lumina turn out to be. The check engine light did come on and this time codes 32, 33, and 35. I don't think that car dealer ever wants to see me again so I guess I will never know. :)

I have learned a lot and would like to learn more about cars from this experience, maybe even learn to do minor repairs.

Thanks again.