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Painting roll cage tubing on a car floor panel


Zonic2001
07-24-2013, 05:25 PM
I have a 1/24 scale racing car that has the roll cage tubing and the floor panel together. The roll cage is cast over the floor panel showing like half of the cage tubing above the floor piece. The floor needs to be a light flat gray color and the roll cage is matt black. Which should I paint first and second? Then, what is the best method to paint straight edges between the surfaces (the flat floor and half roll cage)? Can't do it with my bad hand pulse. But, tried tamiya masking tape all over the floor covering the roll cage structure. Then, I cutted off the masking with a Xacto knive exposing the roll cage but after painting with flat black the exposed roll cage, the edges don't look straight enough and the masking tape took some painting with it. I need to re-paint again therefore, before I re-do the entire piece, I want to hear alternative methods from the pros. Any other methods I should try???? Need help!!! Thanks for reading my post.

freakray
07-24-2013, 06:19 PM
What you describe as far as painting then masking and painting the second color is correct, it just sounds like you had a paint adhesion issue.
As a rule, when painting multiple colors in layers, the lightest colors should come first with the darkest last - in your case, grey then black.
For the peeling/paint removing with the masking tape issue, there's 2 ways to make sure this doesn't happen - wash all the parts before painting to remove any mold release agents or oils. The second is to prime parts, it gives the paint a solid base to adhere to.

Paint can also peel with tape if you don't allow enough curing time before masking and painting the next color - I always try to wait a week, as hard as it is to be patient.

Zonic2001
07-25-2013, 08:31 AM
Thanks freakray but I washed and primed the piece. I didn't wait a week for curing, so I will add that to the process. But is cutting the masking tape with the xacto knife exposing the roll cage to be painted the only method? My results were imperfect straight lines, is about impossible for me to achieve straight lines. The imperfections are so much that I don't think touch up will help without it being obvious to the naked eye. Masking and cutting the roll cage areas off is my biggest problem remaining, is this the only method? Looking for alternatives!

stevenoble
07-25-2013, 11:25 AM
Rather than trying to cut around the part I would use thin strips of masking tape applied along the edges and burnished into place with a toothpick/wooden stick. Then apply the paint with an airbrush, lightly at first to seal the edges so no bleed occurs..

Zonic2001
07-25-2013, 01:02 PM
Rather than trying to cut around the part I would use thin strips of masking tape applied along the edges and burnished into place with a toothpick/wooden stick. Then apply the paint with an airbrush, lightly at first to seal the edges so no bleed occurs..

I thought about that and I started laying out the masking strips (I have all sizes from 0.5mm and up) but because I had to make lots of cuts, I went the other way. Maybe I need to try this method even with the many extra cuts. Thanks Steve again.

MidMazar
07-26-2013, 01:56 AM
I would use this technique.....http://scaleplasticcars.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13984

Zonic2001
07-26-2013, 08:45 AM
I would use this technique.....http://scaleplasticcars.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13984

Good idea... I used silly putty before and is not applicable in this situation due to the need of very straight lines and tighter areas complicated with angles between the roll cage members. But thanks!

Zonic2001
07-30-2013, 02:19 PM
Any other ideas???????

CFarias
07-30-2013, 04:29 PM
I hate to ask an obvious and possibly silly question, but is the rollcage that is mounted to the floor easily visible when the model is finally put together? If not then you might not have to worry about it at all.

What I've done in the passed is lightly scribe, with the back end of an X-Acto blade, a groove where the roll cage meets the floor. I then place some masking tape close to the groove and paint the role cage flat black getting as close to the tape without actually touching it. When it has dried I then run a thick wash of black into the groove. The wash in the groove always gives me a sharp line between the black roll cage and the white interior. I only use this method on the sides of the roll cage that will be seen through the windows. Also, the long bristle brushes like the ones used for pinstriping are ideal for this type of work. You'll need to the use the smaller ones found found in art stores, however. The bristles should be about an inch or so.

Zonic2001
07-30-2013, 04:59 PM
I hate to ask an obvious and possibly silly question, but is the rollcage that is mounted to the floor easily visible when the model is finally put together? If not then you might not have to worry about it at all.

What I've done in the passed is lightly scribe, with the back end of an X-Acto blade, a groove where the roll cage meets the floor. I then place some masking tape close to the groove and paint the role cage flat black getting as close to the tape without actually touching it. When it has dried I then run a thick wash of black into the groove. The wash in the groove always gives me a sharp line between the black roll cage and the white interior. I only use this method on the sides of the roll cage that will be seen through the windows. Also, the long bristle brushes like the ones used for pinstriping are ideal for this type of work. You'll need to the use the smaller ones found found in art stores, however. The bristles should be about an inch or so.


Most of it is vissible when the model is finished and the doors & front hood are open. There are some areas that are covered by the seats and other stuff which I don't need to be so accurate.

Wow,,, your idea is great! So far I'm inclining toward this solution.

Zonic2001
07-30-2013, 05:32 PM
I hate to ask an obvious and possibly silly question, but is the rollcage that is mounted to the floor easily visible when the model is finally put together? If not then you might not have to worry about it at all.

What I've done in the passed is lightly scribe, with the back end of an X-Acto blade, a groove where the roll cage meets the floor. I then place some masking tape close to the groove and paint the role cage flat black getting as close to the tape without actually touching it. When it has dried I then run a thick wash of black into the groove. The wash in the groove always gives me a sharp line between the black roll cage and the white interior. I only use this method on the sides of the roll cage that will be seen through the windows. Also, the long bristle brushes like the ones used for pinstriping are ideal for this type of work. You'll need to the use the smaller ones found found in art stores, however. The bristles should be about an inch or so.


Have few questions... when you brush the flat black, is your brush nor wet nor mostly dry? Like medium amount of paint on it? I don't brush much at all on my models, they are 99.9% airbrushed. But in this case, if I brush then, I can do a roll cage member at a time to be more accurate with the lines. After you brush, will you clear coat to make the brush strokes (marks) more uniform? Or do you brush a couple of coats? Maybe the paint you use is more adaptive to brushing, what paint you use? Sorry for the many questions but I need to continue with the built to be ready for the next competition. Thanks in anticipation of your reply.

CFarias
07-30-2013, 05:42 PM
Thanks for the compliment.

Also, you can paint the gray color in an oil-based paint or something tougher, like a light gray automotive primer from a spray can, and, when that paint is fully dry, use a water based acrylic for the black. That way, if you mess up, you can wash away the black before it dries and start over. There should be no problems with paint compatibility so long as the gray paint underneath the water-based black is dry. When the black paint is dry, it shouldn't wash off at all, so you can do the cage in sections allowing each section to dry before continuing to the next. The Dupli-Color dove gray automotive primer that you can buy at your local auto parts store works well but can cover up fine detail. Use it in short, light bursts.

CFarias
07-30-2013, 06:01 PM
Have few questions... when you brush the flat black, is your brush nor wet nor mostly dry? Like medium amount of paint on it? I don't brush much at all on my models, they are 99.9% airbrushed. But in this case, if I brush then, I can do a roll cage member at a time to be more accurate with the lines. After you brush, will you clear coat to make the brush strokes (marks) more uniform? Or do you brush a couple of coats? Maybe the paint you use is more adaptive to brushing, what paint you use? Sorry for the many questions but I need to continue with the built to be ready for the next competition. Thanks in anticipation of your reply.

Actually I use a thin black paint to eliminate brush strokes. Not exactly a wash, but just a paint that has been thinned with 25% thinner. I then load up the brush about halfway up the bristles with paint and give the bristles a brush-up against the rim of the jar to get rid of the excess paint.

The thin black-coat does not cover the parts in one pass. You have to go once, let it dry, then again, and again, until you are satisfied that the black is covered well. This eliminates streaks from the brush but the thinner paint might have a tendency to run if you are not careful. It sounds like this technique would take longer than using a single layer of thicker paint, but the coats dry fast and the texture is very smooth and you can paint other parts of the roll cage while other parts are drying.

Once I'm done I'd give it a light coat(s) of gloss, put on any decals, then a coat of flat for a uniform appearance, as you suggested. The flat appearance is a personal preference to contrast against the glossy finishes of the car bodies. Most cages should be gloss.

The paints I mostly use are the Testors Model Masters in both oil and acryl, but I've had success with Tamiya, Gunze, and Vallejo paints.

hirofkd
07-30-2013, 10:43 PM
I'd do one of the following, depending on the complexity of the floor & roll cage.

<Masking>
Cut out masking tape into narrow strips and small geometric shapes, then use the straight side for the boundary between the floor color and cage color. Then mask the rest.

<Rebuilding>
Cut out the floor and replace with a sheet of plastic (or metal), and fabricate the pipes with plastic or metal tubes of the desired size.

Kjenjak
08-01-2013, 03:43 AM
My thought as well. If the doors can be opened and the roll cage is fully visible, cut away the part that touches the floor, close the hole, and add the black part after the floor is finished.

If you don't want to go this way, I found it helpful to cut along the edges of the masking tape after the paint has dried, so the tape won't take away pieces of the paint that should stay in place when you pull it off.

Zonic2001
08-01-2013, 07:50 AM
Great suggestions my friend modelers!!! I have a plan now. Thanks a lot!!!!!

Zonic2001
08-02-2013, 09:42 AM
I just finish the floor panel/roll cage part. What I did was a mix of all the suggestions above. I sanded most of the existing roll cage part of the floor panel but not all. I left maybe not more than a mm. Then, I use styrene rods to recreate the roll cage. I could only find a slightly bigger diameter rod which turned out to be even better because it hides the existing sanded roll cage. First cut rods to size, then painted flat black (unglued), glue it in place (with minimal glue to avoid runoffs) on top of the left over existing roll cage to use it as a guide. As a matter of fact it looks more realistic than sanding all the existing roll cage. It gives a better 3D dimension. The bottom mm is painted the color of the floor panel, light gray, so is almost invisible even with a magnifying glass. I retouched those areas that the paint was slightly damaged and Wallahh!!!! No masking, no fine line painting, no scibe, done in less than an hour.

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