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Need a very fine silver


Some_Kid
07-07-2013, 10:19 AM
Hi guys I was wondering if any of you had some suggestions on silver paint. I want a silver that looks to scale. One that looks good not only in light but in shadow as well. Most metallic paints are not fine enough for this. I am very aware of Zero paints but if at all possible I was wondering if any of you knew any paints, perhaps ones that I could get formulated in the states or maybe find at autozone?

I'm building an xj220 and Im going for a silver body. I know all about Tamiya's gloss aluminum but it has given me fits in the past and I would rather not deal with that paint. Tamiya Mica Silver is much easier to paint however the grain isn't quite as fine.

Metallic paints need a very smooth surface to lay down on and I'm pretty good at prepping surfaces but I would also like a silver paint that doesn't show the underlying texture of a surface quite as easily as Gloss Aluminum or Mica Silver do. I am considering getting the paint matched in a spray can(Spa Silver), but there is no guarantee that the actual silver color is fine enough in scale. Thanks for any advice and suggestions.

http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/jaguarxj220-10-627x417.jpg

viperofoz
07-07-2013, 10:28 AM
You might want to take a look at Tamiya AS-12 (from the aircraft spray range).

Its a nice fine silver that goes on really smoothly and covers very easily, it dries to a satin finish so you will need a clear coat (TS-13) but I find it works so much nicer than TS-17 Gloss Aluminium.

I also use this stuff as a sealer sometimes over filler and when needing to stop red pigment bleed .... like when painting Ebbro's Lotus 72C white.

Regards, Dan

Edit... Here's the AS-12 used on a Toyota 86, showing how fine and even it is. In this application I used it to seal some filler and as a base for the Metallic Orange topcoat, but it could just as easily be cleared and used as the finished colour..

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/970096_10200178005914458_1356277701_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1013722_10200178006634476_159267479_n.jpg

Vric
07-07-2013, 11:06 AM
I use vallejo paint with great result. The "air" Line is prethinned for airbrush and the flake are very small.

Alclad is also quite good

turbothirtytwo
07-07-2013, 02:28 PM
super silver C159 from gunze?

935k3
07-07-2013, 09:24 PM
Whatever silver you use try a small amount of gloss white paint mixed in. It will look smoother and less grainy. It looks like the silver used on Porsche and Mercedes race cars when done this way.

Some_Kid
07-07-2013, 09:33 PM
You might want to take a look at Tamiya AS-12 (from the aircraft spray range).

Its a nice fine silver that goes on really smoothly and covers very easily, it dries to a satin finish so you will need a clear coat (TS-13) but I find it works so much nicer than TS-17 Gloss Aluminium.

I also use this stuff as a sealer sometimes over filler and when needing to stop red pigment bleed .... like when painting Ebbro's Lotus 72C white.

Regards, Dan

Edit... Here's the AS-12 used on a Toyota 86, showing how fine and even it is. In this application I used it to seal some filler and as a base for the Metallic Orange topcoat, but it could just as easily be cleared and used as the finished colour..

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/970096_10200178005914458_1356277701_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1013722_10200178006634476_159267479_n.jpg
Ah now that looks like it could be the ticket. Have you actually tried painting a body and clearing it with just this color? Any kind of changes with a clear coat? Compared to Gloss Aluminum for instance, do you find that it has a different "color" so to speak? Does it look finer or about the same as a perfect ts-17 paint job? Sorry for bombarding you with questions, just want to be thorough.

Whatever silver you use try a small amount of gloss white paint mixed in. It will look smoother and less grainy. It looks like the silver used on Porsche and Mercedes race cars when done this way.

That's really quite an interesting suggestion. I take it you have good results? Do you get a vastly superior finish?

Never thought of Vallejo air brush silver. Though I wouldn't be surprised that they are as good as their brush paints. They are easily becoming one of my favorite suppliers. Their brush speed assembly so much faster.

viperofoz
07-08-2013, 01:18 AM
Ah now that looks like it could be the ticket. Have you actually tried painting a body and clearing it with just this color? Any kind of changes with a clear coat? Compared to Gloss Aluminum for instance, do you find that it has a different "color" so to speak? Does it look finer or about the same as a perfect ts-17 paint job? Sorry for bombarding you with questions, just want to be thorough.



That's really quite an interesting suggestion. I take it you have good results? Do you get a vastly superior finish?

Never thought of Vallejo air brush silver. Though I wouldn't be surprised that they are as good as their brush paints. They are easily becoming one of my favorite suppliers. Their brush speed assembly so much faster.

Yes, I have cleared over the AS-12 before with excellent results, but as with ANY metallic, you need to avoid bombarding it with heavy, wet clear coats as this re-softens the metallic particles causing them to sink and therefore darken the colour or make it blotchy and uneven.

Build up the clear with light coats and you shouldn't have any problems.

I also agree from experience in the 1:1 auto painting industry that adding a little white could give you a more in-scale effect with silvers, but just be careful not to add too much as it will completely "kill" the metallic effect and just give you a washed out looking grey if over done.
But definitely worth experimenting with.

Regards, Dan

ZoomZoomMX-5
07-08-2013, 07:19 AM
The airbrush is your friend.

My current favorite silver is Gunze #8 silver, the bottled solvent-based paint. It is a very fine metallic, very much "in scale". Clearcoat w/Gunze clear, or TS13 if you can find it, or use U-Pol clear (that's what I've done).

Another option is to mix some Testors lacquer silver chrome trim with some clear, then add a final clearcoat. It's another incredibly fine silver. This was my go-to in-scale silver for years, when shooting enamels. It works the same way and dries faster w/o yellowing, when using the newer lacquers.

Some_Kid
07-10-2013, 07:36 PM
Well guys I think im going to order some as-12 to experiment with but I think I may actually man up and try airbrushing ts-17 to give me more control over the paint. After looking at ton394's lexus LFA I could not believe how stunning and real that ts-17 paint job looked.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1065091

My question is to those who have airbrushed it before. Is ts-17 ready to spray once decanted? Will I need to thin it? Could I use regular lacquer thinner from a car parts store? I have the equipment to do this job right. I have an Iwata Kustom CS airbrush in addition to their CR air gun. I've got a compressor with adjustable PSI too.

My thinking is that if airbrushed gloss aluminum is anything like airbrushing their acrylic aluminum it should not take to many coats to get full coverage.(i do know the difference between lacquers and acrylics). Leaving the edges sharp and the paint thin and smooth. The goal would be to get a thin even coat. I'll worry about the gloss coat later.

drunken monkey
07-10-2013, 07:53 PM
you don't really need to gloss TS17

Some_Kid
07-10-2013, 08:56 PM
As my first time airbrushing it, I think may actually need a clear coat. I'm going to use testors one coat, perhaps airbrushed as well. I have the tendency to burn through in the polishing process. What PSI numbers should I be operating at? 18-25?

Zonic2001
07-11-2013, 01:36 PM
Whatever silver you use try a small amount of gloss white paint mixed in. It will look smoother and less grainy. It looks like the silver used on Porsche and Mercedes race cars when done this way.

How much white versus silver? Percentage wise? 90% to 10%? I will be doing a Mercedes C9 later.

turbothirtytwo
07-12-2013, 06:57 AM
definetly use some clear, that LFA wouldnt look taht good if there was no clearcoat, silver paint is harmfull when you want to take of some dirt or so...

ZoomZoomMX-5
07-12-2013, 11:24 AM
All TS paints that I decant require some thinner.

I always have Mr. Color Thinner (or Leveling thinner), or Tamiya lacquer thinner, on hand, and add a few drops to the mixture so it sprays out smoothly. Remember that an airbrush is applying the paint in thinner, finer layers, and the paint was mixed initially by Tamiya to be applied through the spray can at a much higher rate of both paint and pressure.

I clearcoat nearly every gloss final color. You want to buff/polish clear rather than color most times, especially metallic/pearl finishes. I prefer black w/o clear, but it needs to be sprayed thickly and you have to avoid burning through edges when polishing. I also find Tamiya paint to be rather soft, doesn't hold up terribly well to a lot of handling while building. I don't miss TS 13 whatsoever, aside from the ease of polishing w/Tamiya compound. Gunze solvent-based clear is much more durable, but I'm decanting U-Pol power can clear these days, it requires even more thinner but is a very durable finish and it dries quickly, and is very economical to use, especially vs. TS 13.

wadny
07-12-2013, 10:25 PM
I've had really good results with Model Master Metalizer Aluminum non-buffing. I did a Sauber Mercedes C9 with it that turned out great with a 2-part clear over it. I've always liked how the Metalizer paints go on with an airbrush.

Some_Kid
07-13-2013, 01:55 PM
Okay guys well I've been experimenting with ts-17 through the airbrush and here are some test results. I decided to go ahead and paint the wheels to the kit. It's ts-17 over duplicolor filler primer that was sanded between 2,500 to 8,000 grit. No clear coat yet. Pretty sure it was sprayed at around 25 PSI. I found that the ts-17 was plenty thin enough to spray.

The first couple coats didn't look that promising(it looked a little rough) but I think the trick to using ts-17 is color sanding. Before you put on your wetcoats, sand down your previous mist or semi wet coats with very fine grit polishing cloths. I think anywhere from 3200 to 12000 would make it smooth enough.

Not only does this give the wet coats a smooth surface to stick too, it also gives it a reflective and more opaque base. Which means less paint you'll need to spray on that wet coat, which means quicker drying time and less chance of debris getting in the paint. Now if I can just get the entire body to look like this, then I will be a happy camper. Another note, if you decant this paint make sure you properly remix it or shake it before spraying. The silver particles like to fall the bottom of the jar quite fast, almost alclad like.

It's way easier spraying this paint through the airbrush. You get way more control because the paint sprays so fine.


http://s12.postimg.org/lfpfdus2l/IMAG0336.jpg


http://s12.postimg.org/6en4wl9ct/IMAG0335.jpg

http://s16.postimg.org/nh9lo5b05/IMAG0334.jpg

stevenoble
07-13-2013, 02:39 PM
I'm a bit late posting this, but in the past I've filtered the silver paint using a very fine paint strainer. It will remove some of the heavy flakes and leave you with a very fine paint. Many of the hobby silvers have oversize flakes and passing the paint through a filter/strainer will remove them giving you a more realistic 'scale' finish, not that heavy flaked look you can sometimes get..

Some_Kid
07-15-2013, 01:45 PM
Another update for you guys. I have found a solution, which has already been suggested in this thread. I tried spraying MM aluminum metalizer, non buffing and I must say it looks amazing. Extremely fine and thin coats that don't requite multiple coats, no loss of minute details at all. This will be my silver paint from now on. Just apply your clear in mist coats as not to disturb the underlying silver. It seriously beats the paints off any silver designed for body colors I've ever used. Gloss aluminum is nice but the metalizer takes much much less work.

Zonic2001
07-19-2013, 03:28 PM
Model Master Aluminum Metalizer ROCKS!!!!! Used it for the first time two nights ago and is the best paint out of a can that I have ever used!!!!!!!

Some_Kid
07-27-2013, 01:51 PM
Hey guys here is an update for you. I have painted the xj220 body in model master aluminum metalizer. I must say it is a tricky paint to work with but the results are absolutely worth it. Your primer must be perfectly smooth as the paint doesnt hide anything. One forgiving aspect to this paint however is that if you sand through a couple spots of primer, it's okay the aluminum will cover it up with several coats.But it is like using a better version of ts-17, it essentially looks the same once you clear coat it. I couldn't be more pleased and it looks very much in scale.

This is actually a repaint by the way. I had a near flawless paint job on this body in tamiya mica silver but I was such a nit pick about it I couldn't live with myself and I had to get a finer/more in scale silver.

Here's a sneak peak at my build. Keep your eyes open for the upcoming thread. I give you the tamiya xj220 in MM aluminum metalizer.

http://s18.postimg.org/axjixmvqx/IMAG0349.jpg

http://s24.postimg.org/4d8shfh5x/IMAG0357_1.jpg

http://s22.postimg.org/bhy0011xd/IMAG0350.jpg

http://s16.postimg.org/mnzr46jat/IMAG0346.jpg

wadny
07-27-2013, 06:07 PM
Told ya so! Since Alclad came out, the Model Master metallizer paints have been kind of ignored. I love Alclad, but the metallizer paints are excellent, too, and work better (I think) for large areas. They can be a bit fragile, so a clear coat helps, but I always found them incredibly easy to airbrush. Incidentally, the buffing stainless steel is really nice for brake rotors when it's buffed out with a Q-tip.

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