Page updated on 11-21-2017

Porsche 934 comparison - Tamiya 2013 vs. esci/heller vintage kit


lovegt40
06-14-2013, 05:32 AM
I've worked for Esci company in late 80s and 90s as modeller and master developer.It was a very cool company and I am still good friend with the very skilled ex-owner.
He always had a special interest for those kinda subjects, also replicated yrs later with another company he did making die cast in 1/43, after the selling of Esci main factory in Cernusco sul naviglio (MIlan-Italy). For just a matter of time and money there was no way to make in 1:24 the 1976 RSR. ;)
Many modellers as me liking those cars would be too happy to have it still today,even if just decent bodyshell.

The recent kit made by Tamiya should be a good challenge for this vintage model done by Esci too many years ago and reboxed for other decades by Heller. Misteriously, at the time of the develope of those models, we sent all material and documentation to China for the final moulding pre-production, and we had no idea of what was coming back to Italy. Sometimes it was a great model (in planes some masterpieces as the MB.326 or the F-4 phantom) and in cars...as the Beta montecarlo or this...934.
What we suspect was that down there chinese engeneers had a central office dividing the job to other sub-companies, sometimes really skilled, sometimes not so much.Incredibly everytime the price for this work was all the same..... :screwy:

Coming to us, the 934 I will use for this kit comparison is the rebox done by Heller, that is basically the same identical model of the racer, just without decals. Not a so big problem today, cause too many decal sheets are available on the market to make too many different liverys used worldwide.
The boxart are both nice ones.Tamiya as its usual has stunning boxart, and I really would love to know much more about those msiterious painters. Sometimes there is an "M.O." signature in a corner of the painting. Tamiya wellknows a cool boxart is half sale of a model kit.I just wonder why they dont sell separately books with those incredibly nice paintings.It would be a really cool commercial idea, imo.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-uY1DzKM3wXk/UbrTaURAT9I/AAAAAAAAPwY/NTcZGiLardY/w847-h552-no/SDC11431.JPG

..but also Heller had a cool image on its box.They shoot the nicest angle of the body of this car,3/4 back. Too aggressive, even if replicating an incredibly rare street version of the 934..

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-dLf9W9Syz7U/UbrTZ2JrH1I/AAAAAAAAPwU/Umsc6I0skQU/w853-h552-no/SDC11430.JPG

and now lets look at whats inside those cartons.Many of us already seen all the single Tamiya styrene parts from the model shows around the world.I will mostly focus on the bodyshells of those cars, being curbside,even if Esci/heller provides a very basical plastic part also for the interiors, for the couragiuos modellers planning to build it full open...
First of all the dimensions are pretty identical.This is good cause many other models as Fujimi ones looks dramatically smaller when palced near other company 911's.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-O1b40ZagFW4/UbrTuvLYhBI/AAAAAAAAPyI/aehZcmW2K_I/w837-h552-no/SDC11445.JPG

Of course there are too many moulding panel lines on the old esci body,but is quite easy to fix theme, unless we are talking of the nasty rear part near the spoiler.Nothing impossible btw,just needs patience and some good sandgrip papers.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZMWkyI3uuZQ/UbrT8CEq3jI/AAAAAAAAPzU/UfKP5Fzakag/w637-h552-no/SDC11455.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RLGgwdPG3L8/UbrT3b1dVUI/AAAAAAAAPy8/Sa6SNUr4yLg/w736-h552-no/SDC11451.JPG

From this last pic you also can see there is the lack of the door window lower frame in the esci kit.We are anyway talking of a mould really old showing all its age.
Also tamiya model isnt anyway perfect,cause also they left a moulding line in that area, even if much more lighter.
Consider I always assume modern Tamiya bodies, done with actual technologies should raise the perfection..so I expect just this from theme :).

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4olbnoZ20Wo/UbrT6uEGI0I/AAAAAAAAPzM/RSjNKQ4zhUI/w594-h552-no/SDC11454.JPG

A part surprising me is the front "frog eyes" lights part of this models.Here they look a little different, looking more bigger and wider in the Esci kit.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Y5PtvLnSgvc/UbrTl-ijOOI/AAAAAAAAPxQ/e3c4l_Es6ww/w736-h552-no/SDC11437.JPG

The scary part of this one is anyway mostly forcused on the lower front air intakes. Completely open in tamiya model with PE grilles, and totally closed in old Esci kit.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5jMuUo8YHeg/UbrTgCw61bI/AAAAAAAAPws/HFsekUS6HgQ/w803-h552-no/SDC11435.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1_EDZe2s9Rw/UbrTi9d3R2I/AAAAAAAAPxE/1CuyqpD3fPg/w909-h552-no/SDC11436.JPG

even if I think any modeller can easy drill and rebuild those grills,the main problem remains for the 2 smaller brakes air intake holes in the spoiler, starting squared and ending round deep inside. In this Tamiya looks much better.....even if, the picture of the real car says it is probably mistaken too...being in reality much more lower in position

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Wq25o6v5fZY/UbrTi4fkBuI/AAAAAAAAPw8/38x34htLjtI/w736-h552-no/SDC11436a.jpg

The rear part of the roof is otherwise really different.In this, honestly, old Esci beats new Tamiya, cause italian model had the upper air vents on the rear windshield, present in real cars and missing in the japanese one.This is a detail nearly impossible to make.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-WNrNGn0nUcU/UbrTo5ep3zI/AAAAAAAAPxc/xEY6zHsFhvs/w644-h552-no/SDC11439.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gbpJ7reqW4k/UbrTxSewDxI/AAAAAAAAPyk/9FLUWpqdMIs/w909-h552-no/SDC11447.JPG

actual car:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1Ya3mrNfU9Y/UbrTwtg2VCI/AAAAAAAAPyc/lgJpHiZcyoA/w732-h552-no/SDC11447a.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qUDhWTqdiBY/UbrTxgT7_dI/AAAAAAAAPyg/ujo796H-3lY/w736-h552-no/SDC11447aa.jpg

a dramatical difference is indeed mostly on rims and wheels.Here Tamiya made a simple and quite wonderful mould of the BBS, while Esci ones are too smaller and thick in the rubber border (smaller more than 2 mm in scale in diameter :eek7: )

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kKH_SXOTd7A/UbrUH3f9R1I/AAAAAAAAP0E/3T6x8h3N1Iw/w647-h552-no/SDC11462.JPG
totally unuseful,unless u like sand beach toy look.

while Tamiya ones are too nicer, even with a ugly fake looking chrome paint, coming directly from the 80s.. :disappoin
I just wonder why in 2013 they still make such ugly paint. expensive and totally unrealistic for this kinda static models.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-61TTAb59JLI/UbrULEhlyKI/AAAAAAAAP0U/WoayMtR7p1A/w862-h552-no/SDC11463.JPG

Of course this is not a majior problem, cause there are already too many nice (even much nicer than Tamiya box ones) BBS around.Some of theme with PE parts also.
The 934 also leaves a lot of space to phantasy for more modern historical racers..as this:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6hwmCdzUr0A/UbrUKlIHq5I/AAAAAAAAP0M/38Hj7YNmNHE/w570-h296-no/SDC11463a.jpg

finally clear parts.Of course they are nicer and thinner in Tamiya modern model. The rear ones looks also quite smaller between the 2 kits. Not bad anyway in both.
Note in Esci model there is no front light lamp cups, so it is a must to rebuild theme to avoid the ugly holed space inside effect.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1yIqcWlCxHM/UbrUObvfrxI/AAAAAAAAP0o/g-WPu2aXDZo/w736-h552-no/SDC11465.JPG

and newer tamiya:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fO96oX6DEqM/UbrUNEbVV9I/AAAAAAAAP0c/95yiq9w8SXA/w736-h552-no/SDC11464.JPG

Conclusion:
basically I was expecting the perfect car from Tamiya.It is very near, but still not.
It surprised me this old Esci model looks still so good after too many years. If u take a look at our 911 tribute gallery you all can see how nice this model can turn out in proper modellers hands.Sure, the wheels are the main issue to correct, but as we all know it is not so hard to fix theme, as well as choose one of the too many racing decals available on the market today.
Even more now cause this nice news from Tamiya.
The nasty stuff in Tamiya car is the missing of some decals, mostly about Dunlop logo sponsor on the body and typical writings on tyres, forcing you to search for alternatives or detail extra decals, vanishing the trial of Tamiya to keep the price lower than usual.
This is mostly in you buy it on internet, cause in italian shops this model is priced at 44 euros (nearly 60 USD). foolish if we think it is listed in HLJ for 18 euros.

I will personally make the Tamiya car into Kremer Vaillant car. Just lost some time in choosing which color can be appropriate for this and finally will use the Gunze H46 acrilic paint,looking perfect after some plastic painting tests.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QW0J8zKL2aE/UbrUOlpIynI/AAAAAAAAP0s/w3YOmq66bOs/w608-h552-no/SDC11466.JPG

the unuseful jagermeister decal sheet from tamiya will be re-used for a 935K3 model coming soon.

24hrs
06-14-2013, 06:07 AM
With regards to the vents in the rear windshield, you're right. I wonder why tamiya or fujimi didn't include that detail in their kits. I have several kits on hold for that reason! I wish somebody would come up with a photo etch template for that. Hint hint!

lovegt40
06-14-2013, 06:28 AM
Sure, that is really strange, also cause many street versions have this detail too. Esci ones are honestly a little too big, but is anyway a detail u will note immediately, even more when not present.
I expected Tamiya would fix this issue in 2013 all new body mould....but I was wrong.

joka-1
06-14-2013, 08:16 AM
Wow Lovegt40,

you got me on 2 things here.

Fristly, I like the Porsche 934RSR, one of the most beautiful cars around.
Secondly, I'm a collector from ESCI kits!

And now you tell me you're an ex-employer from ESCI, that sounds very nice, I'll sent you a pm about this.

And thanks for the comparison between ESCI and TAMIYA,
you see ESCI isn't that bad some say!

You mentioned the front air intakes are closed with the ESCI one's?
This isn't correct, they are closed with the HELLER one's, the ESCI one's were open, they even delivered some mesh to fill in the gaps!

Reagrds,
joka-1

24hrs
06-14-2013, 08:20 AM
Yep. I could use that detail in the fujimi enthusiast 911's. The lack of that detail also made me shelve my tamiya 959. Oh well... Anybody got ideas?

Btw, nice review/comparison with the rsr.

rallymaster
06-14-2013, 03:36 PM
With regards to the vents in the rear windshield, you're right. I wonder why tamiya or fujimi didn't include that detail in their kits. I have several kits on hold for that reason! I wish somebody would come up with a photo etch template for that. Hint hint!


It's even stranger when you know they have to be filled to build the 78 Monte Carlo winner car... :screwy: :icon16:

joka-1
06-14-2013, 05:20 PM
It's even stranger when you know they have to be filled to build the 78 Monte Carlo winner car... :screwy: :icon16:

I don't think the rally car is a 934, I'm not familiar with rallye cars, but I think it's an SC with the arches from a 934? ( Correct me if I'm wrong )

Regards,
joka-1

MidMazar
06-14-2013, 10:50 PM
Thanks for the comparison. Looking forward to more progress. Make sure no details are missed from the 1:1 Phill. :lol:

lovegt40
06-15-2013, 03:23 AM
suspect johan is right.Too many cars I've seen around are basically 911sc's updated to 934 turbo look. The plastic kits are available and the metal body parts are nearly identical.
the only few ones, real FIA approver historic 934's I've seen In Monza, Imola and Misano, had all this air vent over the read windshileld.
Think is anyway a detail possible to be done also just with a little decal, just to evidence it.

959 btw seems not to have it
http://www.autosketch.ru/E4/88_Porsche_959_Komfort_DV_06-ARM_02.jpg

and even less the racing variants, even if I think our russian super master modellers making the rothmans tk know much more than me here.
Usually in such racers all the original car glasses are redone with copies in lexan,probably still not available over those old 934 racers.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Porsche_959_Coupe_Paris-Dakar_1985_backleft_2009-03-14_A.JPG/800px-Porsche_959_Coupe_Paris-Dakar_1985_backleft_2009-03-14_A.JPG

ewestra
06-15-2013, 03:27 AM
Lovegt40 "This is a detail nearly impossible to make."

It's indeed strange Tamiya missed this reardetail. The Heller btw. have the vents but there are 8 vents and not 11. I started a enthousiast 911 from Fujimi and backdate the car into a 1965 Rally Monte Carlo version. I did make the rear vents out of plasticcard. If interested I will post a little tutorial how I made this detail.

http://imageshack.us/a/img203/2935/p4173648.jpg

Thanks for the comparison on the Tamiya and Heller 934 Lovegt40.

Eric

24hrs
06-15-2013, 07:08 AM
Lovegt40 "This is a detail nearly impossible to make."

It's indeed strange Tamiya missed this reardetail. The Heller btw. have the vents but there are 8 vents and not 11. I started a enthousiast 911 from Fujimi and backdate the car into a 1965 Rally Monte Carlo version. I did make the rear vents out of plasticcard. If interested I will post a little tutorial how I made this detail.

http://imageshack.us/a/img203/2935/p4173648.jpg

Thanks for the comparison on the Tamiya and Heller 934 Lovegt40.

Eric

I'm pretty sure that the 959 has those vents too. In preparation to building the tamiya 959, I accumulated a lot of pictures of the real car, and those vents were present.

To ewestra, please do post a how-to on how you did the 11 vents! I'm really curious on how you did it. Thank you in advance! Since I have no photo etching experience, I'm going to ask a friend of mine to try and laser cut the vent panel for me. His machine is capable of cutting/etching hairline details. I just hope it turns out right. He will try to cut it in thin styrene which I will try to attach to the car.

rallymaster
06-15-2013, 08:42 AM
I don't think the rally car is a 934, I'm not familiar with rallye cars, but I think it's an SC with the arches from a 934? ( Correct me if I'm wrong )

Regards,
joka-1

Right, it's a 911 2.7l with 934 look, but no matter, ESCI put the vents whereas they don't have to be there on the MC version and Tamiya didn't whereas they should be there, so there is inevitably something wrong :icon16: :lol:


Thanks for the comparison. Looking forward to more progress. Make sure no details are missed from the 1:1 Phill. :lol:

:eek7: :eek7: :sly: :sly:
So what's funny here...? :screwy: :screwy:

lovegt40
06-17-2013, 10:53 AM
..maybe just a decal with the 11 vents (little as a line btw) can increase a lot the realism of this part..

Ps: for anybody interested in Esci history, here is an italian link to the complete story of the company :)
with langauge traductor can be possible to understand a lot:)
http://www.modelingtime.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=7095

Mikezibit
06-17-2013, 04:41 PM
Thanks for your comparison, very interesting,
but the problem with the wheels is solved very soon :)

LINK (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.654751061218130.1073741828.145433628816545&type=3)



Mike

Boreham
06-19-2013, 08:58 AM
Fantastic thread topic with great shots and reference material.

ianc911
06-19-2013, 02:32 PM
If interested I will post a little tutorial how I made this detail

No! We don't want your stinkin' little tutorial!

We want a complete WIP on the entire car! ;)

ianc

lovegt40
06-19-2013, 04:32 PM
No! We don't want your stinkin' little tutorial!

We want a complete WIP on the entire car! ;)

ianc

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

ewestra
06-19-2013, 06:00 PM
Okay but hold your horses. Right now I'm in the middle of my McLaren M23 project. I will enter this McLaren during the IPMS in october. That means, it has to be ready and I still have the compleet engine to do. But, I promisse to start a tutorial on my 1965 Monte Carlo Porsche 911 (trunk, enginelid and doors open, with the 11 vents). I think I will start posting in september.

Eric

ianc911
06-19-2013, 06:16 PM
Great! I'll be stoked to see that one. Always a pleasure to see your work Eric.

1965 Monte Carlo Rally; that was Quick Vic I believe?

ianc

tonioseven
06-19-2013, 08:44 PM
I learned a few things from this thread; that's a good thing. :sunglasse

ewestra
06-20-2013, 01:06 AM
1965 Monte Carlo Rally; that was Quick Vic I believe?

ianc

No, it was Herbert Linge and Peter Falk who drove the 911 in it's first outing in a motorsportevent to a great 5th place overall.

Eric

hirofkd
06-27-2013, 05:23 AM
I just updated my 911 Turbo project thread with some photos showing how to add the roof vents.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=7046892&postcount=8

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/hirofkd/911turboproto/911tp303_zps0ec0d1c2.jpg

JeremyJon
06-27-2013, 11:40 AM
Great comparison article, love to read these! Thanks!

Those SM wheels look great & wheels make all the difference in a good build IMO

sportracer02
06-28-2013, 06:10 AM
Those SM wheels

:confused: :dunno: what wheels do you mean?

viperofoz
06-28-2013, 09:25 AM
:confused: :dunno: what wheels do you mean?

Do you mean the SP wheels? :confused:

I have been checking the scale Production website and FB page almost on an hourly basis to see if those awesome looking 934 wheels are available to order yet... paypal charged and ready to go.... :lol2:

hd221813
07-01-2013, 01:29 PM
Really interesting comparison! The Esci kit seems very good and accurate, considering its era.

lovegt40
07-19-2013, 05:23 PM
oooppss...just noted now tamiya anyway knows the vents problem.
In my comparison I forgot to take a look carefully at the decal sheet provided into japanese box. They really did as I was suggesting. there is then a little line for the rear air vents.
This pic explains: they are under the dashboard ones..

http://www.oupsmodel.com/images/prods/tamiya-maquette-voiture-24328-porsche-turbo-rsr-type-934-jagermeister-1-24_1.jpg

Add your comment to this topic!