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Can't get Hiro 2K Clear Coat, any USA alternative?


Zonic2001
04-30-2013, 08:24 AM
Since evidently is going to take few months for Hiro to figure out how to ship paints outside UK, my question to USA members is... what is a good 2k clear coat alternative sold in the USA? If it is automotive grade then, what is the mixing ratio, clear coat vs hardener/activator vs thinner to get it thru an airbrush? I do have a 0.5 needle on one of my airbrushes. If you don't want to post your secrets on-line, send me an e-mail please. Your expertise on this subject is greatly appreciated. I have a couple of models in the making that I'll need to clear coat. :frown:

sjelic
04-30-2013, 08:41 AM
You can take any 2k clear with no fear (PPG, DuPont etc.), USA has one of the best, if not the best chemical industries and you can not miss with it. As for the mix ration, it is a matter of personal experience, for example, most of manufaxturers recomand 2 part clear 1 part hardener and 10-30% of thinner...by my personal experience, even 30% is not enough...allthou it depend on how you apply coats.
To make long story short, take clear, medium hardener (not quick type as it tend to make orange peal more easy) and mix it 2 part clear 1 part hardener and 1-2 parts thinner, for first few coats 1 part thinner and then for the rest add a bit more thinner, just be carefull not to over do it with the amount of clear on the model because it is very easy to do so.

Zonic2001
04-30-2013, 10:50 AM
You can take any 2k clear with no fear (PPG, DuPont etc.), USA has one of the best, if not the best chemical industries and you can not miss with it. As for the mix ration, it is a matter of personal experience, for example, most of manufaxturers recomand 2 part clear 1 part hardener and 10-30% of thinner...by my personal experience, even 30% is not enough...allthou it depend on how you apply coats.
To make long story short, take clear, medium hardener (not quick type as it tend to make orange peal more easy) and mix it 2 part clear 1 part hardener and 1-2 parts thinner, for first few coats 1 part thinner and then for the rest add a bit more thinner, just be carefull not to over do it with the amount of clear on the model because it is very easy to do so.

I have checked on-line and those companies sell gallons and quarts of the clear color and hardeners. I'm afraid of having a qt of hardener that can get hard before I finish using all of it, waisting money. Anyone you know sells smaller quatities like for us modelers?

Zonic2001
04-30-2013, 11:06 AM
sjelic... I have another question now that you bring orange peel... if you do have orange peel on your first clear coat application, can you sand down (like with a 6k grid) and the next clear coat the finish will be ok? It does or not opaque the second clear coat?

stevenoble
04-30-2013, 01:52 PM
sjelic... I have another question now that you bring orange peel... if you do have orange peel on your first clear coat application, can you sand down (like with a 6k grid) and the next clear coat the finish will be ok? It does or not opaque the second clear coat?

You can sometimes go straight back over the clear with another coat and the new coat will slightly reactivate the first layer and lessen the orange peel effect, allowing it to re-flow out. However if it's really quite bad then yes, you can sand back the first coat removing the orange peel effect and then re-coat over the sanded back finish which will remove the haze you created when you sanded it and make it clear again. Just don't use too rough a sandpaper, because if you put deeper scratches in the clear they are not as easy to cover with more clear..

CFarias
04-30-2013, 02:01 PM
It's hard to find small quantities of 2K, but you can buy off-brand 2K for much cheaper than duPont or PPG. These are not necessarily inferior, 2K's. Often times they are just branded to be cheaper, but chemically, are the same. I got a quart with hardener for less than 20 dollars US and has lasted for a few years so long as you keep them tightly closed and away from sunlight.

You can visit an automotive paint store and ask for them, or you can visit your regular parts store, such as AutoZone or O'Reillys, and ask there. The DIY parts stores don't keep it out front but usually keep them in the back so you need to ask for them. (Incidently, you can ask for light bulbs for your car the same way and pick up a single bulb for less than a dollar instead of paying for a pair at a much higher price.) When you consider the cost of the smaller quantity of 2K from Hiroboy and the shipping, you might find that the larger quantity from your local parts store, even if some does go to waste, it might still be a good value.

I use Value-Pro P370-400 HS Clearcoat with Value-Pro T315-3511 Hardener. Follow the mix ratio recommended for both products and then thin with twice as much acetone and use a hi-flow nozzle on the airbrush. Never had problems at these ratios, but be sure to test first.

I've had no ill effects after sanding down orange peal even using only 1800 grit. At least that's been my experience. Just be careful not to rub all they way to the paint. If you do, stop, spray on some more clear and repeat if you have to.

Zonic2001
04-30-2013, 03:55 PM
You can sometimes go straight back over the clear with another coat and the new coat will slightly reactivate the first layer and lessen the orange peel effect, allowing it to re-flow out. However if it's really quite bad then yes, you can sand back the first coat removing the orange peel effect and then re-coat over the sanded back finish which will remove the haze you created when you sanded it and make it clear again. Just don't use too rough a sandpaper, because if you put deeper scratches in the clear they are not as easy to cover with more clear..


nah the orange peel is not that bad. a clear coat on top will fix it then. Thanks my friend!

Zonic2001
04-30-2013, 03:58 PM
CFArias... thanks for all the info... product name, mixing ratios and the recommendation of using acetone. So you use acetone instead of thinner? Great information my friend. Just what I needed.

Zonic2001
04-30-2013, 04:00 PM
CFArias... question... what you mean with "hi-flow nozzle on the airbrush"?

Zonic2001
04-30-2013, 04:13 PM
It's hard to find small quantities of 2K, but you can buy off-brand 2K for much cheaper than duPont or PPG. These are not necessarily inferior, 2K's. Often times they are just branded to be cheaper, but chemically, are the same. I got a quart with hardener for less than 20 dollars US and has lasted for a few years so long as you keep them tightly closed and away from sunlight.

You can visit an automotive paint store and ask for them, or you can visit your regular parts store, such as AutoZone or O'Reillys, and ask there. The DIY parts stores don't keep it out front but usually keep them in the back so you need to ask for them. (Incidently, you can ask for light bulbs for your car the same way and pick up a single bulb for less than a dollar instead of paying for a pair at a much higher price.) When you consider the cost of the smaller quantity of 2K from Hiroboy and the shipping, you might find that the larger quantity from your local parts store, even if some does go to waste, it might still be a good value.

I use Value-Pro P370-400 HS Clearcoat with Value-Pro T315-3511 Hardener. Follow the mix ratio recommended for both products and then thin with twice as much acetone and use a hi-flow nozzle on the airbrush. Never had problems at these ratios, but be sure to test first.

I've had no ill effects after sanding down orange peal even using only 1800 grit. At least that's been my experience. Just be careful not to rub all they way to the paint. If you do, stop, spray on some more clear and repeat if you have to.


Do you buy the Value-Pro products on-line or from your local store? I search on-line and I get sites with the technical information of Value-Pro products but the clearcoat is a different number and doesn't take me to a page were I can buy this product. :frown:

sjelic
04-30-2013, 05:13 PM
Guys were quicker :-), just find some paint shop close to you, they will sell you small amount.

CFarias
04-30-2013, 06:09 PM
Acetone works well for me. I also use the Dupli-Color Paint Shop Pro system and they thin with acetone, so it simplifies my painting system -- not having to use lacquer thinner or special reducer, for example. However, any reducer or lacquer thinner should work well, I've just found acetone to be more forgiving and provides a smoother finish.

I bought the Value-Pro from a local auto paint supplier. I may have remembered the product numbers wrong. I'll give you an update when I can later today. I've had similar experience trying to find the stuff online.

A hi-flow is just an expression for the large nozzle on your airbrush. Most of the time there are three nozzles for your airbrush -- a fine tip, a medium (general purpose), and a heavy tip (hi-flow). Most airbrushes come with the medium tip and this will work, but for car bodies I like to use the hi-flow. It is more forgiving so you don't have to be as precise with pressures and mixing ratios. They can put up to 4 times more paint and primer onto a model than a medium per pass of the airbrush, but it's still a pretty thin coat. Again, you don't need the hi-flow, but I would recommend it.

CFarias
04-30-2013, 11:56 PM
Sorry, but I did get the product numbers wrong for the clearcoat and hardener. For the clearcoat it's ValuPRO P390-4000 and for the hardener it's ValuPRO P315-3511.

Zonic2001
05-01-2013, 07:48 AM
Acetone works well for me. I also use the Dupli-Color Paint Shop Pro system and they thin with acetone, so it simplifies my painting system -- not having to use lacquer thinner or special reducer, for example. However, any reducer or lacquer thinner should work well, I've just found acetone to be more forgiving and provides a smoother finish.

I bought the Value-Pro from a local auto paint supplier. I may have remembered the product numbers wrong. I'll give you an update when I can later today. I've had similar experience trying to find the stuff online.

A hi-flow is just an expression for the large nozzle on your airbrush. Most of the time there are three nozzles for your airbrush -- a fine tip, a medium (general purpose), and a heavy tip (hi-flow). Most airbrushes come with the medium tip and this will work, but for car bodies I like to use the hi-flow. It is more forgiving so you don't have to be as precise with pressures and mixing ratios. They can put up to 4 times more paint and primer onto a model than a medium per pass of the airbrush, but it's still a pretty thin coat. Again, you don't need the hi-flow, but I would recommend it.


Yes, that's the 0.5mm needle. I got that in my airbrush to be able to pass the 2k clear. Thanks again for the info.

Zonic2001
05-01-2013, 08:55 AM
Nobody carries Value-Pro products in town nor I can find them on-line. That takes care of that! When I ask the local auto supplier and tell them that I'm going to airbrush them, they all back out and don't recommend any of their products. Threy go crazier when I say that I can delute them to pass the airbrush using acetone or thinner!!!

Any other suggestions??????????????????????????????????????? ???????? Brand name, mixing ratios (that will help me tremendously), etc, of a product I can get on-line??????????? Need help!!!!!!!!!!

stevenoble
05-01-2013, 11:40 AM
Tell them you're going to spray them with a full size gun and don't mention the airbrush. I have a supplier near where I live who is the same and says they are not suitable for airbrush use. But I've been airbrushing the Zero 2K for a few years so there is nothing wrong with using an airbrush to apply it. Basically they are all the same in use, just different quality, but they all work well enough. I wouldn't normally use acetone to thin them with, I've only ever used the proper 2K thinners, so I can't comment on that. But you definitely need to thin them some or they don't flow out as good and do dry with a bit of an orange peel texture.

kans0002
05-01-2013, 04:09 PM
Luis let me know if you find a shop here in town where you can buy the 2k from. thanks,

Stu

oter
05-01-2013, 04:17 PM
http://shop.spotmodel.com/product_info.php?products_id=16843&osCsid=lolfdsru9au05bnr17qrj7o334

nascar49
05-01-2013, 04:46 PM
http://shop.spotmodel.com/product_info.php?products_id=16843&osCsid=lolfdsru9au05bnr17qrj7o334
I was curious what the cost was for us in the USA

its $22 for the clear and $17 for shipping

oter
05-01-2013, 05:15 PM
its about 19$ for the Clear(cheaper Than hiro),you dont need to pay taxes in Spain.

ofc the shipping is high if you only buy the Clear,buy more,and save on shipping

Zonic2001
05-01-2013, 06:38 PM
Luis let me know if you find a shop here in town where you can buy the 2k from. thanks,

Stu

Hey buddy. Missed you at the last JaxCon. I did very well in two categories and won best of class in one. Can't complaint for my first competition.

Will let you know. I'm visiting one place tomorrow at lunch in Mandarin. Went to one today off Beach Blvd and they were a..holes so left and didn't buy anything.

yelo
05-01-2013, 08:54 PM
Honestly, most automotive 2 parts clear coat are full of additive made to resist being outside year round, our models don't "live" in the same conditions...

Just buy the cheapest one you can find as well as the hardener (medium) and the thinner made for it, follow the recipe on the packaging and you'll be find...

Here in Canada, we (me and most of my friends) use ProForm products, not sure if you can find it in the US.

CFarias
05-02-2013, 12:44 AM
Nobody carries Value-Pro products in town nor I can find them on-line. That takes care of that! ...

Any other suggestions??????????????????????????????????????? ???????? Brand name, mixing ratios (that will help me tremendously), etc, of a product I can get on-line??????????? Need help!!!!!!!!!!

I checked with PPG, the makers of Value-Pro and it turns out they've discontinued that line of paint. They've rolled up that product into their Omni and other brands. So, yes, we'll have to source a new brand for the 2K.

I paint with the recommended mixing ratios. For me it's 1 part hardener to 10 parts clear. Then I thin with twice the amount of acetone. For example, if I ended up with 1/3 ounce of 2K then I'd thin with 2/3 ounces of acetone. I normally only mix about 1 ounce at a time as the 2K will harden overnight if you don't use, so there's no point in mixing more than that. I then spray with a hi-flow at about 25 to 30 psi. Use this as a starting point for the work you do and adjust to suit your conditions and needs. For example, some 2K's mix 1:4 instead of 1:10, or may be thicker requiring more reducer. A common problem you might encounter is spider-webbing, where the clear comes out of the airbrush like spider webs. If this happens then thin the clear some more, or lower your pressure, or change your nozzle -- in that order. Write down your mixing ratios and pressures as you spray so that you can keep a record of what worked and what didn't. Record keeping is a big help, especially when I switch from clearcoats to automotive paints, to hobby enamels, etc.

Most of all don't get discouraged. Find a brand and buy it. Don't worry about the guy at the shop. He's trying to look out for you, but doesn't understand that 2K can work through a hobby airbrush. He won't recommend any other thinners than what the 2K manufacturer recommends because he can guarantee that you won't get burned using their products. Take the risk and buy the stuff -- maybe sell some to your buddies to help with the cost. It will be worth the hassle.

CFarias
05-02-2013, 01:11 AM
Also, I use the small 1 ounce measuring cups, like the ones you get with cough medicine. I use the measuring marks on the sides to "eyeball" my ratios. I've never had to be more precise than that. Using eyedroppers for exacting ratios will probably be a little extreme. To pour the clear and hardener I use toothpicks. I slowly tip the bottles over with the toothpicks pressed up against the bottle openings so that the 2K's will pour down along the toothpicks and into the measuring cup. This gives pretty good control over how much clear and hardener is used. Don't mix the toothpicks!

Zonic2001
05-02-2013, 08:15 AM
CFArias... Thanks for that detail explanation. Very helpful even when I do most of it already. I'll be going to a second store today. Hopefully they will be more amicable which they were over the phone. This store is a PPG automotive paint distributor in this area and they sell to a modeler already, so the guy knew what I was talking about. Is a 25 miles one way trip to this store from my work but I think will be worth it especially when they know what I'm talking about.

One question... so you use regular acetone (like from Home Depot) and mix it with the 2k clear and hardener immaterial of the brand name or recommended reducer by the 2k manufacturer?

stevenoble
05-02-2013, 10:50 AM
I would always try and stick to the proper 2K thinner that is recommended by the maker of the clear. I'm a bit superstitious that way. I think if you use the correct thinner you save any possible adverse reactions down the line. Just my way of thinking. The last thing you want is to do a fantastic job and end up with a stunning shiny finish, only for it to react or crack later because the thinner was incompatible. I've learnt that the hard way, because it's happened to me before. Usually a litre of the proper 2K thinner is fairly cheap and if you use it solely for thinning the clear it will last a very long time..

CrateCruncher
05-02-2013, 10:57 AM
If your PPG distributor doesn't work out try NAPA. They carry a line of clears called Martin Senour that are pretty good. Lots of good advice here. The most important single thing is to use more reducer than recommended for a real car to improve leveling. CFarias can reduce with acetone because he's worked with it for years. I tried it years ago with Duplicolor Touch-Up paints but had problems. Acetone is very difficult because it's so volatile, even drying before the paint hits the model (spider webs, powder). In a state like Florida with high humidity it can also trap moisture in the paint finish because it gets so cold with such rapid evaporation. I'd buy the recommended reducer, one with the highest temperature rating if you have a choice. Reducer is the least expensive of the three items you'll need and "reduces" the problem potential. One quart of clear will last for years even if you share it with your local model friends.

Zonic2001
05-02-2013, 12:15 PM
CrateCrunsher... Yes I know. Is costly when you place clear coat on a body and something goes wrong. I had to get a second model kit once and a second piece from the manufacturer to complete the two kits I messed up with 2K clears. It was costly. But, with such mistakes, you learn!!! I know I did.

CFarias
05-02-2013, 11:05 PM
CrateCruncher and stevenoble offer very good advice. While I personally have never had any issues with acetone you can't go wrong with using the reducers offered by the brand of 2K you are using. If that reducer is only used for painting then it will last you a long time.

In truth, reducers are mostly acetone or lacquer thinner, but they have additives which enhance the paint finish, reduce the tendency for fish eyes and resist, cob webbing; so it is the better choice. You can save the acetone for cleaning up so I would recommend buying it anyway, if just for that.

kans0002
05-03-2013, 10:09 AM
this is why i love this site! thanks for the help and advice everyone, I really appreciate it.

Luis - I was there for only a very short period of time. I am sorry I missed you as well!

Good luck and let me know if you have success at that shop in Mandarin.

Stu

tonioseven
05-09-2013, 12:55 AM
Excellent thread. I will make the 2K plunge this week AFTER I get a new respirator.

John18d
05-10-2013, 04:05 AM
Zonic - there is Cal Coast airbrush that sells paint materials in small quantities like 1-2 ounce containers so give them a google or PM me and I will get you a link to their website
I'm sure you are aware that most orange peel can be avoided by using correct mixing ratios with correct air pressure, consistent trigger pull and consistent distance and speed across the object to be painted. I have found the best treatment for orange peel is to do your best to avoid it in the first place
I'm not sure of your spray equipment but I have found that those small diaphragm hobby airbrush compressors "pulse" the air instead of a constant pressure and it leads to orange peel and blushing of both gloss paint and clears both 1k and 2k
When I spray 2k clears I use about 50%more thinner (reducer) than recommended by the mixing direction ratios. I find that 2k flows smoother. 1-2 light coats to seal the decals and then a nice wet flow coat for that smooth glossy wet look
Hope this helps you some
John

Vric
05-10-2013, 08:36 AM
Any alternative for Canada? Can't get any paint nor clear to get shipped here.

Zonic2001
05-10-2013, 11:00 AM
Any alternative for Canada? Can't get any paint nor clear to get shipped here.

There are cars in Canada therefore, paint shops too... and each paint shop has an automobile paint supplier... that is the person or store you need to find out near you. visit them and ask for a 2K clear coat and they will explain the options. if you buy locally, you get more for the price. I just did the research and found a store in my area willing to help me and is working excellent!

Zonic2001
05-10-2013, 11:21 AM
Zonic - there is Cal Coast airbrush that sells paint materials in small quantities like 1-2 ounce containers so give them a google or PM me and I will get you a link to their website
I'm sure you are aware that most orange peel can be avoided by using correct mixing ratios with correct air pressure, consistent trigger pull and consistent distance and speed across the object to be painted. I have found the best treatment for orange peel is to do your best to avoid it in the first place
I'm not sure of your spray equipment but I have found that those small diaphragm hobby airbrush compressors "pulse" the air instead of a constant pressure and it leads to orange peel and blushing of both gloss paint and clears both 1k and 2k
When I spray 2k clears I use about 50%more thinner (reducer) than recommended by the mixing direction ratios. I find that 2k flows smoother. 1-2 light coats to seal the decals and then a nice wet flow coat for that smooth glossy wet look
Hope this helps you some
John


I have three airbrushes, from Iwata, to a very expensive German one. I have a compressor and an air supply tank so my pressure is constant where ever I set the regulator to. As well as you, I have noticed lately that when I add more thinner to the 2k (first time I did was because I turned the bottle to much and got more thinner) I get better coat so I have altered the mixing ratios already. I also do about 3 coats as you said... so we are on the same wave. Thanks for the information anyway!

Zonic2001
05-10-2013, 01:17 PM
Any alternative for Canada? Can't get any paint nor clear to get shipped here.

I know on-line ordering is easier but I just found out that with a little re-search and finding a local store the savings are tremendously. I got a qt of 2k (enough to do many model cars) with pint of hardener and pint of defuser (thinner) for $50 including sales tax... that is a little more for what I paid the store in UK to send me a fraction of the 2k I just purchased.

Zonic2001
05-10-2013, 01:19 PM
and don't get the 2k automotive grade on-line... is more expensive than the local store.

yelo
05-10-2013, 07:48 PM
Any alternative for Canada? Can't get any paint nor clear to get shipped here.

Vric, look for that at your local auto parts store:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/yelobike/b003-1.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/yelobike/media/b003-1.jpg.html)

The clear and hardener are the same I and most of my friends in Québec use.

Just don't buy the same as I did, don't buy the solvent on the picture, ask for the right one for that kind of clearcoat. I bought that one thinking I didn't need to thin the clearcoat and would only need it to clean my airbrush, turns out I'd like to thin it a bit... I tried to save a couple bucks, i'll have to buy a new gallon of solvent :mad:

kans0002
05-11-2013, 06:50 PM
I know on-line ordering is easier but I just found out that with a little re-search and finding a local store the savings are tremendously. I got a qt of 2k (enough to do many model cars) with pint of hardener and pint of defuser (thinner) for $50 including sales tax... that is a little more for what I paid the store in UK to send me a fraction of the 2k I just purchased.

Where did you end up getting the paints from Luis?

Stu

Zonic2001
05-13-2013, 04:05 PM
Where did you end up getting the paints from Luis?

Stu


PM replied.

tmathew1us
05-13-2013, 10:12 PM
Thanks all for the great information, everyone!!

I recently tried two part clear for the first time, but didn't realize it needed to be thinned - i.e. I just used 4 parts clear to 1 part medium reducer. It did go on quite thick and glossy, appropriate for modern show cars but not for others (older cars, race cars, etc).

I did lay it on too thick (on an otherwise great paint coat:banghead:). It bubbled a bit, and certain areas were too thick. I have been soaking it in purple stuff for over a week without even a little bit of erosion. I contacted the manufacturer, who recommended aircraft stripper, but that will turn the model car body into soup.

I will definitely thin it next time. Any suggestions on how to strip 2 part clear?

lezdep
05-13-2013, 11:04 PM
... Any suggestions on how to strip 2 part clear?I have used 99% isopropyl alcohol to successfully strip Zero 2K clear and Zero base paints. But I have not experience with other 2K clears yet.

John18d
05-14-2013, 03:37 AM
I'm not sure where led zep got 99% isopropyl ETOH but it is available in 70% also known as "rubbing alcohol" and 90% isopropyl alcohol. The 70% will not do anything against the 2K but it might be stripped by 90% isopropyl alcohol
The purpose of 2K clears is that it is resistant to most environmental and chemical interactions
As a last resort there is always sanding the clear back to a smooth surface
When using 2K clear it is important to understand that the clear requires a catalyzer "hardner" to activate the urethane clear but it must still be thinned "reduced" in order to spray it through an air gun or an air brush. How much you reduce your mixture to spray is dependent on the size of the needle and jet used
I usually use a 0.5 when I spray 2k but I never use less than a 0.3 needle and jet. I also use a trigger air brush because I can set the amount of clear "material" to be sprayed and then using a regulator to determine air pressure which allows for full pull on the trigger for a consistent even application of the 2K which minimizes or in my case eliminates the chance of "orange peel" and "blushing" that is so prevalent with a dual action air brush
One thing everyone spraying 2k clears or 2 part paints that use catalyzer please wear an industrial respirator and have adequate ventilation. The hardner / catalyzer is cyanoacrylate which is basically "super glue" and you do not want that in your lungs. COPD is a terrible way to die
John

Vric
05-14-2013, 08:53 AM
I know on-line ordering is easier but I just found out that with a little re-search and finding a local store the savings are tremendously. I got a qt of 2k (enough to do many model cars) with pint of hardener and pint of defuser (thinner) for $50 including sales tax... that is a little more for what I paid the store in UK to send me a fraction of the 2k I just purchased.

For clear, I agree it's kinda easy to find. But for paint, I can't find anywhere that sells less than a pint (20oz). If I want to do 40 models of the same color, it's indeed cheaper, but that's not the case..

Zonic2001
05-14-2013, 11:52 AM
For clear, I agree it's kinda easy to find. But for paint, I can't find anywhere that sells less than a pint (20oz). If I want to do 40 models of the same color, it's indeed cheaper, but that's not the case..

You are correct. For small quantity paints you need to order on-line.

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