2003 Sorento 3.5 V6 Only has spark on 2 cylinders


chrisorbics
02-21-2013, 08:35 PM
I am working on a 2003 Kia Sorento 3.5 V6 4x4 that stopped running out of nowhere. I pulled the coils and wires from their covers. Cylinder #4 coil is firing and I believe #1 is firing which is on the wire side. I am assuming cylinder #1 is the one that is connected to the cylinder #4 coil.

The other coils do not spark. If I switch either one to the #4 position they both work. This is where I stopped. I did not have my multimeter or test light with me. I really do not like electrical issues.

I did not see any split wires. Where do I look next? What gives the coils their power?

I am thinking crank shaft position sensor, camshaft position sensor, wiring, ecu.

Is there anything that specifically controls the #2 and #6 coil packs but not the #4 which is the one that is still working?

Has anyone had any similar issues? Any ideas?

chrisorbics
02-22-2013, 09:09 AM
Are there any fuses inside the truck I should check. Everything under the hood looks ok. The cover inside the truck is missing so I don't know what anything is and the owners manual is missing.

chrisorbics
02-22-2013, 03:21 PM
The battery was low but I checked the voltage at the connector for each coil module and I got about 7 volts from the red wire on each one. I am assuming the problem is that whatever gives the coils their signal is not working properly. Any comments would be great.

chrisorbics
02-22-2013, 07:21 PM
I am now trying to find the ground for the three coil wires.

rhandwor
03-05-2013, 06:17 AM
I am now trying to find the ground for the three coil wires.
The terminal for the coil has 3 terminals. The left is the positive the center is ground the right goes to a condenser then to ground.
Use a 12 volt test light try to find the hot as I don't have a color code. Normally the ground is pulsed. Use an ohm meter one terminal on a ground . With the ignition off find the ground wire. Use a 12 volt test light and a gem clip small paper clip. Run the tester between the ground center wire and hot wire. Have some else crank the engine if the light blinks go to the next coil.
Each coil should get a pulse. Use an Ohm Meter and check each plug wire for continuity about 1/2 scale. Check each plug for cracks and proper gap. Use a spark tester and check each coil.
Start with this and reply back.

chrisorbics
03-06-2013, 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by chrisorbics http://staticaf.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=7028266#post7028266)
I am now trying to find the ground for the three coil wires.
The terminal for the coil has 3 terminals. The left is the positive the center is ground the right goes to a condenser then to ground.
Use a 12 volt test light try to find the hot as I don't have a color code. Normally the ground is pulsed. Use an ohm meter one terminal on a ground . With the ignition off find the ground wire. Use a 12 volt test light and a gem clip small paper clip. Run the tester between the ground center wire and hot wire. Have some else crank the engine if the light blinks go to the next coil.
Each coil should get a pulse. Use an Ohm Meter and check each plug wire for continuity about 1/2 scale. Check each plug for cracks and proper gap. Use a spark tester and check each coil.
Start with this and reply back.

Thanks for the information. That is very helpful. I was wondering how to check for the pulse. I did get 12v from the wire closest to the front of the truck last week. I will use my circut tester for this. The weather is going to be very nasty here untill friday afternoon and the truck is not at my house. I will get this done soon though.

The coils must be good because if I switch them to the #4 plug they work fine.

chrisorbics
03-07-2013, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisorbics http://staticaf.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=7028266#post7028266)
I am now trying to find the ground for the three coil wires.
The terminal for the coil has 3 terminals. The left is the positive the center is ground the right goes to a condenser then to ground.
Use a 12 volt test light try to find the hot as I don't have a color code. Normally the ground is pulsed. Use an ohm meter one terminal on a ground . With the ignition off find the ground wire. Use a 12 volt test light and a gem clip small paper clip. Run the tester between the ground center wire and hot wire. Have some else crank the engine if the light blinks go to the next coil.
Each coil should get a pulse. Use an Ohm Meter and check each plug wire for continuity about 1/2 scale. Check each plug for cracks and proper gap. Use a spark tester and check each coil.
Start with this and reply back.
Thanks for the information. That is very helpful. I was wondering how to check for the pulse. I did get 12v from the wire closest to the front of the truck last week. I will use my circut tester for this. The weather is going to be very nasty here untill friday afternoon and the truck is not at my house. I will get this done soon though.

The coils must be good because if I switch them to the #4 plug they work fine.

Just check it out with my circut tester. Connected between the front most pin in the coil connector which is 12v power and the center which is ground ALL three cylinders light up solid.

Now connected to 12v front pin and the other pin which is on the opposite pin I am getting a good pulse or flash on cylinder #4 and the other two cylinders light up solid on this pin. I am going to check voltage and report back.

chrisorbics
03-07-2013, 11:35 AM
The #4cylinder measured between red 12v and middle ground shows no power until engine is cranked. 12v to oposite end connector shows power with key on accessories position and drops very low when engine is cranked. flashes to 4-6 volts for a second. The battery is a little low.

OK this is weird. The other two cylinders show power from red 12v pin to center ground pin. They both show power from red 12v pin to the one on the opposite end with the key in the accessory position but the difference is that when you crank the engine the power does not drop like I saw in the cylinder 4 plug.

Not sure where to go from here.

chrisorbics
03-07-2013, 10:24 PM
Just to clarify cylinders number 2 and 6 do not have an ignition pulse.

rhandwor
03-08-2013, 06:54 AM
The #4cylinder measured between red 12v and middle ground shows no power until engine is cranked. 12v to oposite end connector shows power with key on accessories position and drops very low when engine is cranked. flashes to 4-6 volts for a second. The battery is a little low.

OK this is weird. The other two cylinders show power from red 12v pin to center ground pin. They both show power from red 12v pin to the one on the opposite end with the key in the accessory position but the difference is that when you crank the engine the power does not drop like I saw in the cylinder 4 plug.

Not sure where to go from here.
The wiring diagram shows 3 splices to the ground wire. Use ohm meter and put one end on the the center wire the other end on a good ground do all of these have a good ground. State readings and reply. Do the same thing to the other wire not hot. This goes through a condenser and also an ignition failure sensor to ground is the reading the same on all 3 wires.
Use a 12 volt test light one end on a good ground does the red wire blink when cranking on any of the hot wires.
I think a splice connection is loose but am not sure.

chrisorbics
03-08-2013, 03:03 PM
Use a 12 volt test light one end on a good ground does the red wire blink when cranking on any of the hot wires.


I have gotten cylinder #4 to flash when I had the test light connected between the condensor wire and the red pin while the engine was cranking.

So the test light should flash if it is connected to a good chassis ground and the other end connected to the red pin?

chrisorbics
03-08-2013, 03:05 PM
I will get some readings on the grounds also.

rhandwor
03-08-2013, 05:34 PM
I have gotten cylinder #4 to flash when I had the test light connected between the condensor wire and the red pin while the engine was cranking.

So the test light should flash if it is connected to a good chassis ground and the other end connected to the red pin?
The three hot wires come from the computer with no splices except at the bulk head.
I don't see any other way to pulse the coil. If one wire pulses and the other two don't
but are hot it indicates all wires on the hot side are good to the computer. You may have a bad computer. I would pull the right cover over the timing belt and make sure its tight. If possible roll the engine over and check for a broken tooth on the belt. The cover has five bolts on my 2006 I pulled mine today for a no start. I had a bad fuel pump relay. You also have to remove a few other bolts holding brackets to remove the cover.
Remember a junk yard computer would be cheaper.

chrisorbics
03-10-2013, 10:18 AM
I finally found the main source of the ignition problem. After testing the power, pulse, and grounds on the three coil connectors yesterday; I realized something was not right. I tested the front and rear coil connectors for ignition pulse and at first no pulse, then they were pulsing.

I thought to myself this has got to be something more simple than what I am looking for because I have noticed that the people who worked on this truck before me re-installed only the bolts that were easy to put back in and did not tighten them more than hand tight.

So I decided to finally take off the drivers side timing cover to see what the camshaft position sensor looked like. One of the ears was broken off of the cover. When I got it off I saw a groove that was made in the center of the top of the timing belt. The inside of the timing cover had a 10mm head shorty bolt jammed and melted into it which was slightly rubbing the belt. I said to my friend who was there with me "this is what I was looking for. After shining the flash light down and following the wire for the cam sensor I found it "hanging around". So I guess that the mechanic that must have been drunk working on this truck used the same technique of using half the original bolts and hand tightening everything on not only the brackets that did not do much on the outside of the engine but also the bolts on the timing set and surrounding area.

I got luck because the wiring was not damaged but the sensor was chewed up. Just for fun I put the sensor in and the truck eventually fired up. Eventually it started to misfired after reving it alittle. cam senor code, cylinder 6 misfire code twice and p1121 fuel code which I have gotten before.

I am going to order a cam sensor and see how that makes the car run. I am also going to get some spark plugs and the throttle body gasket since those plugs are soaked in fuel. Hopefully the fuel code will go away.

Thanks to everyone who helped and stayed with me this far. I will continue to update as things get done. I forgot to add that the timing set was done about a year ago along with a lot of other work at the dealer. My friend who is the original owner said the bill was $1,900. This was the second time the timing belt was done and it has 116,000 miles. I would not reccommend the kia service center on rounte 9 in the freehold area. It is sad because the average person would think bringing it to the dealer is the best way to have thier vehicle fixed.

rhandwor
03-10-2013, 11:47 AM
I finally found the main source of the ignition problem. After testing the power, pulse, and grounds on the three coil connectors yesterday; I realized something was not right. I tested the front and rear coil connectors for ignition pulse and at first no pulse, then they were pulsing.

I thought to myself this has got to be something more simple than what I am looking for because I have noticed that the people who worked on this truck before me re-installed only the bolts that were easy to put back in and did not tighten them more than hand tight.

So I decided to finally take off the drivers side timing cover to see what the camshaft position sensor looked like. One of the ears was broken off of the cover. When I got it off I saw a groove that was made in the center of the top of the timing belt. The inside of the timing cover had a 10mm head shorty bolt jammed and melted into it which was slightly rubbing the belt. I said to my friend who was there with me "this is what I was looking for. After shining the flash light down and following the wire for the cam sensor I found it "hanging around". So I guess that the mechanic that must have been drunk working on this truck used the same technique of using half the original bolts and hand tightening everything on not only the brackets that did not do much on the outside of the engine but also the bolts on the timing set and surrounding area.

I got luck because the wiring was not damaged but the sensor was chewed up. Just for fun I put the sensor in and the truck eventually fired up. Eventually it started to misfired after reving it alittle. cam senor code, cylinder 6 misfire code twice and p1121 fuel code which I have gotten before.

I am going to order a cam sensor and see how that makes the car run. I am also going to get some spark plugs and the throttle body gasket since those plugs are soaked in fuel. Hopefully the fuel code will go away.

Thanks to everyone who helped and stayed with me this far. I will continue to update as things get done. I forgot to add that the timing set was done about a year ago along with a lot of other work at the dealer. My friend who is the original owner said the bill was $1,900. This was the second time the timing belt was done and it has 116,000 miles. I would not reccommend the kia service center on rounte 9 in the freehold area. It is sad because the average person would think bringing it to the dealer is the best way to have thier vehicle fixed.
Be very careful on the cam sensor as if you drop the bolts you will have to pull the other cover off. I purchased a 1/4 drive 10mm socket from ebay with a magnet in it to hold the bolts. I'm glad you found the problem. Watch the rubber gromets that fit in the holes of the timing cover as they can break off easily.

chrisorbics
03-15-2013, 11:09 AM
Be very careful on the cam sensor as if you drop the bolts you will have to pull the other cover off. I purchased a 1/4 drive 10mm socket from ebay with a magnet in it to hold the bolts. I'm glad you found the problem. Watch the rubber gromets that fit in the holes of the timing cover as they can break off easily.

I got the cam sensor in yesterday. I used a magnet stick to start each bolt and then used a short 3/8 extension on my blackhawk wrench which has a hangle that you twist to turn the socket. This works great in tight areas like this until it gets tight and you snug it down like you are using a normal wrench. I have seen the cheaper stanley version of this wrench in walmart if anyone want one.

rhandwor
03-15-2013, 02:55 PM
Did this correct all of your problems?

chrisorbics
03-22-2013, 03:03 PM
It is running good but I am going to install spark plugs to make it run better. Still has a very very slight shake. No check engine lights. I drove it today and now I have a new set of issue unrelated to the engine.

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