transmission replacement - your thoughts

hey fellas

I figured I'd start a new thread on this. My 2000 3.8 with 190,000 km has a problem with the transmission. In another thread I've discussed the slipping that it's doing. Time will tell if the fluid exchange/filter change/additive works but assuming it doesn't, I'm faced with some choices.

1) dump the van. Nobody is going to buy a 2000 windstar with a slipping transmission - maybe $200 from the wrecker if I'm lucky.
2) have the transmission replaced at a shop with a reman'd unit - over $2500 I'd bet, and not worth it in the end
3) replace the transmission myself with a reman'd unit - probably $2000 all in. I've checked and can get the reman'd trans for $1600.
4) replace the transmission myself with a parts transmission (wrecker) that I can get for $450 cash which has a 90 day warranty.

Couple of facts: the van body is in quite good condition, as it the interior. The undercarriage is rusted somewhat. Add to this, I've never removed or replaced a transmission, but 5 yrs ago I'd never done an oil change (since then I've done brakes, exhaust, full suspension, po174, starter, alternator, etc...) and (big and) I've got a full heated garage with 2 post lift, compressor although I don't have a transmission jack or the tools to support the engine during the trans removal.

So generally I'm wondering everyone's thoughts. I guess my real "hmm" is, is it worth spending the $450 and replacing the trans myself understanding that I'm likely going to turn around and sell the van? Would that be good money after bad? If the van was in excellent shape rust-wise I'd replace the trans with a reman'd one but I just don't think if I did that now I"d get the ~$2500 out of the van. I think if I can solve the slip problem I really should be selling it.

Thoughts? :uhoh:

Well, you probably know my suggestion. DIY with only a Ford reman. That way you get the best warranty and all the engineering upgrades. It comes will all new electrics and full of fluid. Complete with new toroid.

I paid $1700 a few years back, so the price has dropped apparently. You can look up my posting where I did the tranny and an engine refreshing at the same time. To my mind, the subframe is very easy to lower to the ground. I used some special studs I made from all-thread rod of the correct threads ... that is handy but not necessary. A good floor jack or two would do as well.

umm wow... I called my local ford dealer to just confirm.. glad I did. I dunno where the guy earlier got the price from but the Canadian cost for a reman'd trans lists at $3200. The parts guy says "he'll give it to me" for $2600. Oh, a screaming deal...:banghead::banghead::banghead:

anyway, got some more thinking to do about this...

Yeah, that tranny is prob built "down here" ... so it would cost you more bucks Canadian, I guess. But considering the time that has passed ... that's not too bad.

When making decisions like this, I have to put things like "market value" out of my thinking. Its how much the ride, once fixed, is worth to me. A dependable ride for $3k, or thereabouts ... is a pretty good deal, I think.

I'll second 12Ounce's thoughts. I'm in nearly the same situation. 2000 3.8l with 138k miles. We bought it from my in-laws with 118k on it in 2009 knowing it had been very well cared for but not realizing the transmission was slipping slightly. My plan is to replace the transmission myself when it degrades to a point that I think it can't be driven reliably. I can replace the transmission (Ford reman) and subframe (ours spent 9 years in Michigan and has had the recall performed on it) for about $2,500 including buying an engine support bar (http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-engine-support-bar-96524.html), transmission jack adapter and any other tools I don't already have. I figure that's less than a one year payback compared to the cost of replacing the van. In the mean time, each time I change the oil, I also refresh 6-7 quarts of transmission fluid by pumping it out through the dipstick tube. The slippage tends to increase a little as the fluid ages and is noticeably better after it's refreshed. I'm not sure how long it will take to reach the tipping point but with some luck it won't get there before the van is ready to be donated to our local high school's auto tech department.

Of course, depends on work space and time. It might be a good deal to buy the junk yard tranny with the 90 day warranty .... if you keep your old tranny. Take your old tranny to the work bench and rebuild it. This should give you enough time to study and become an expert on the tranny repair ... so you will have it ready to go when the junk replacement fails. A tranny repair kit prob goes for $500, or less, on line.

Like I said ... depends.

oh perfect ... another idea !

ya know, the rebuild of the existing trans while the junker one is in there does have some merit. Never considered that truthfully!

Any idea if a rebuild needs machining or is it simply (ahem) replacing parts?

No machining required. Just parts replacements. Its been a long time since I've overhauled a tranny ... I have gotten away from it over the years, mostly because they last much longer now for the most. But I know kits are fairly available that will include about everything you need ... except for information. Not sure where to find that now ... other than a shop manual.

So last night it occurs to me that I could pick up the junk yard trans, rebuild it on my bench, then if (when?) my current trans bites the big one I'd have a fresh trans all ready to install...

12ounce, I looked at the various rebuild kits available. Some have soft parts, hard parts., bands, solenoids, torque converter... and any combination of the same. Of course the more you buy the more it costs. In the past when you've done a rebuild, did you rebuild everything? I'm kind of leaning towards doing more than less but at the same time, if parts generally are ok, why replace them eh?

Well ...it depends. It depends on how worn you find the internals. For sure, I would plan on replacing the friction discs ... both the metal and non-metal discs: and I would replace all the rubber o-rings and flappers (if there are any) that make up the soft piston rings and valves.

Beyond that, I would replace only what appears worn ... maybe the pump drive shaft, etc. If your tranny has no chunks of aluminum or stainless steel in the pan, has only metal fuzz on the magnets and black stuff in the fluid ... you have had little "extra" wear ... and I would expect no hard parts outside the discs are needed.

But hopefully, we will hear from those who actually know.

I guess the good news is, I could dismantle the trans, see what looks bad beyond the normal soft parts and then order. I get the impression that buying everything in a kit vs part by part is the way to go. I've been googling the "master rebuild" kits which seem to cover most parts, not including solenoids and torque converter.

I would gamble on the old torque converter unless there was much metal chunks visible in the fluid.

I think 1 of the failure points in this trans are the splines in the convertor that drive the pump shaft. I do not know if this was fixed by 2000 but if it was not I would change the convertor and shaft while it is down.

Hey guys

I took a look at the alldatadiy steps to remove the transmission. It doesn't look too bad overall but I'm wondering about 3 things.

1) engine support. The alldatadiy site lists a special bar which crosses the engine bay, the bar being supported on the shock towers. It also has a segment which goes from the middle of the front of the van resting on the rad support. This assembly I'm thinking holds the motor so that the sub frame can be safely removed and then the transmission lowered from below. I'm wondering if anyone has used one of the commercially available bars like this one http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/1090009/
to accomplish supporting the motor.
2) removing the halfshafts as well calls for another tool for their removal. It looks like a puller of sorts. I've never removed a half shaft so I'm interested to know about it.
3) I'm thinking I'll need some sort of transmission jack to attach the trans to for lowering the trans once detached from the motor. That I think I can borrow..find etc.

I have the luxury of a 2 post lift in my garage so that's great that I can get beneath the van easily. I know 12Ounce used long threaded rod to lower the subframe which wouldn't work with my lift.

Final question, how much does a A4XS trans weigh roughly? Is it something that a couple of guys can muscle onto the jack?

thanks fellas..

Two guys should be able to handle OK. It is large, heavy and unwieldy ... I was alone and it was quite a task. But loading onto the subframe while the subframe is on the floor would be my choice. Not to say it can't be done other ways.

Hi Northern Piper,
Last year the trans went out in our '01 at 140k, pulling away from a stop light and jerked with grinding. Drove gently the 10 miles home with no futher problem but then would not back out of driveway, only grinding. Sounded like more than a regular rebuild so I bought a trans from Pull-a-Part for under $100 with core charge and no warranty.

I had a choice of several vans with no idea of mileage so chose the one with less brake pedal wear, clean trans fluid and tore the filter open and found no metal. It took me almost three days working by myself to get the trans out at the junkyard. It was a learning expeirence...found that backwards facing bolt in the back of the trans! I put a rebuilt torque converter ($80) in it and it works great - except it doesn't go into overdrive. I haven't fixed that yet..

12 Ounce is right as usual, they are heavy and unwieldy, out and in.

As you know you can get the support to hold the engine in place and lower the subframe and r & r the trans. Sounds like you have a car lift? Then you can do what I did and put 4 jack stands under the subframe, disconnect the steering rack, pull the drive axels out of the trans (no puller need just pry gently and pull), disconnect everything else needed to raise the car up to leave your engine -trans - subframe on the jackstands while the car is six foot in the air. That makes it easier to get to the trans but easy is relative!

You say you have some rust? Mine too and this van was only a few years in the salt. Plan on multiplying time for bolts that are frozen or break! My subframe long bolts were rusty and an exhaust manifold to pipe stud broke.

If I did it again I'd think more of getting the support bar to hold the engine in place but I did what a mechanic suggested and had a shop with a lift available. Yeah with the engine support on and the car on the lift, I think you would need a trans lift as it is too heavy for two guys to wrangle that thing out head high. Either way you must be careful, if working alone have someone within holleren distance.

Nearby in Charlotte, NC there is a transmission parts place called Whatever it Takes, https://www.wittrans.com They have a reputation for good parts and prices and ship all over.

Good luck sir, it's a big job for a home mechanic but you'll smile when finished, even if it doesn't go into overdrive. :)

Waxhaw

HI Waxhaw,

thanks for your lengthy post. It was very informative and certainly outlined what I figured I'd do...

Since posting earlier I have some new thoughts. I did a check to see what this van would sell for. Sadly, the price range is $339 to $969. Now I'll grant you that the van is worth more to me but with a wife and daughter who's recently started driving I gotta be honest, I've lost faith in the van for reliability. If it were me driving it 100% of the time I'd do the repairs. At this point, I'm facing the fact that I need to sell the van and look for some other reliable transportation. If the max price it will fetch is just under a grand, it doesn't make sense to buy a junk yard trans ($450) plus the overhaul kit ($300) plus the extra stuff that undoubtedly crop up. That's $1000 right there.

So, I'm thinking I'm going to replace the servo soft parts that are easy to get to and relatively inexpensive. The new fluid and slip stop has really helped. I honestly think that if you aren't looking for the slip you don't notice.

It's a sad day but I think the writing's on the wall...:shakehead

Uh, Uh ... You know what I said about considering market value.

yup 12Ounce... you're so right!

My trouble is, I really don't feel super comfortable with my wife (who IS a competent driver) and my daughter (who's ok but very inexperienced) driving the van any more. As I said, if it were me driving it every day I'd be ok. As I have a work vehicle I have to drive, they're in the van. So, my approach now is to get the trans working as best as possible and put it on the market.

It's a tough call as I really have got good value from the van, had it since new. But with 190,000 km on the van, the time I fear has come.

If the undercarriage was in better shape I'd be more inclined to replace the trans. I just don't think it's worth the $$ only to have the frame continue to deteriorate.

Anyway, I'm gonna think on this a bit more..

What about finding a tranny that is need of repair for core price and overhauling and installing? This sould save you some $$$$.

Just a thought

OK, I agree with you if the chassis is rusting away ... that can be impossible to overcome.

Hi Folks,

I have had a nightmare with the 2003 Ford Windstar transmission. Replaced it twice now. Suggest you look up any and all TSB notices on this van including especially # 06-14-10. Apparently Ford manufactured this van with a transmission that is subject to water leaking into the trans from the cowl cover vent. When water gets into the transmission it cooks it. Ford knows about it. It was not running properly and we took it to Ford. The young punk there called me back and said that there was water in the transmission, they 'cleaned' it up and he drove it home and it was 'fine'/ I am not too familiar with stuff like this and took his word for it. The first rebuild on the transmission was done by a recommended transmission place here in Fairfield, CT. It falied at 1 year two months, He never pressure tested the radiator and that was replaced. He also never checked the TSB bulletin mentioned above. I will Never use him and never recommend him ..ever. Water in transmission. Told me that it would last for quite a while. Had it checked every 4 months.Has 87,000 original Easy local driving. After that , just recently had Ford look at it again as it wasn't working properly. I looked at the FORD service ticket from initial Ford visit and noticed that the punk service tech never mentioned the water he found in the transmission on the ticket ! Check out the TSB bulletin 06-14-19. Ford knew that this defective cowling leaked water right into the transmission vent and each time I was there , they never mentioned this. The Slugs that work at the FORD SERVICE department in Bridgeport are complicit with a cover up of a major problem here. Fixed now, finally. Lots of $ Going to keep it until it dies.It's become my company vehicle now and will be checked as recommended. I will Never buy Ford again. My Ford Taurus had the front axle snap with my wife and two young daughters in it. The Ford van prior to the Windstar had the transmission fail on it also. Hmmmmm Makes me pine for a foreign made German car.