GTS Engine Oil Cooler Dimensions

Post upgrading the hp in my car (600hp at the flywheel) I am looking at durability items. Can one of you with a GTS assist by advising the dimensions of the oil cooler in your car. Likewise what size is the diff cooler?

My GTRA has a cooler that is 330mm tall by 146mm wide and 50mm thick (a standard Setrab size that is rated for 220hp wet sump engines.......!!). The dimension is total length incluiding the brackets off the end of the finned portion. My car appears as though it has had a 400mm x 146mm cooler fitted at some stage and I wondered if this is the standard GTS sizing.

As we will be running in higher ambient temps in an upcoming race I was looking at either 400mm x 193mm or 400mm x 264mm options (rated for wet sump engines from 450 - 550hp).

Thanks, Kel.

Kel,

My GTS has a Setrab 50-948-4062, 948AN10 engine oil cooler installed.

Not sure of the specs off the top of my head, but I did google it some time back with success.

Good Luck,
Chris

Here's what came out of our GTRA. Going with a new custom dual pass radiator with an enclosed cooler in the left end tank. New radiator with enclosed cooler will cool better than the external and simplify line routing.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6402_4820206114278_2030160406_n.jpg
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/398161_4820205514263_1344539626_n.jpg

The horizontal is 11.25" end tank to end tank and the vertical is 5.75".

~Brian

Kel,

My GTS has a Setrab 50-948-4062, 948AN10 engine oil cooler installed.

Not sure of the specs off the top of my head, but I did google it some time back with success.

Good Luck,
Chris

Thanks Chris.

Here's what came out of our GTRA. Going with a new custom dual pass radiator with an enclosed cooler in the left end tank. New radiator with enclosed cooler will cool better than the external and simplify line routing.


The horizontal is 11.25" end tank to end tank and the vertical is 5.75".

~Brian

Thanks Brian, same as what is fitted to my car. Only rated to 220hp unfortunately.

Kel.

Thanks Brian, same as what is fitted to my car. Only rated to 220hp unfortunately.

Kel.
We had no issues cooling the car making 370 rwhp. Oil temps were always in the 250s max other than the time the engine started to let go the first time.

That said, the cooler on my Z06 is a Setrab 625 which is larger than this one.

Brian,
I'm with Kel, you are going to need a bigger cooler for that LS motor. Cooler is better, especially in the south where you run.

Mike

Brian,
I'm with Kel, you are going to need a bigger cooler for that LS motor. Cooler is better, especially in the south where you run.

Mike
Had a custom dual pass radiator done with an enclosed cooler in the left side end tank. Not re-using the original cooler that came on the car.

FWIW the SBFs never had cooling issues even in 100+ degree VIR weather. I attribute it to the efficiency of the sealed front-breather setup on the car vs. something like my C5 which is a bottom-breather.

Either way I agree bigger is better. Went with the enclosed cooler for the re-build since we're doing manual steering and have no need for a PS cooler. The enclosed cooler on the driver side means very simple/efficient line layout. Using the dual pass with the radiator inlet/outlet on the passenger side works best with the LS1 water pump and alleviates any dead spots which can be present in a cross-flow radiator. Also, the new radiator has something (new to me) called waffle tubes? The tubes are dimpled to disrupt the barrier layer that forms around the perimeter of the tube and promote even speed flow throughout.

Radiator was done by Tapp Inc. (http://www.tappinc.net/) as referred by CV Products. They build the radiators for various NASCAR teams. One of the benefits of Dad living in NASCAR country.

Cool, Brian

Mike

FWIW here's a picture of the new radiator. My father picked it up this afternoon and sent me a few shots.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/74627_4826022059673_1753289094_n.jpg

FWIW here's a picture of the new radiator. My father picked it up this afternoon and send me a few shots.



Looks like a nice product Brian that will make for a tidy installation. Not sure how they rate the BTU capability of the internal oil cooler though Brian. I guess you will know after you have raced hard in the heat.

I am following the Setrab guide and am planning to use a 320mm x 310mm Setrab cooler (640 model) that a friend has supplied me. Basically twice the area of the current cooler in the car. I have been seeing between 125 - 130 degs C in my car which the Redline oil has coped with but this was in 15 - 20 deg C temps. I expect to race in temps up to 30 degs C in the next couple of months hence the change.

Kel.

The gentleman who built it said it will perform better than the stand-alone cooler given how much more efficient the radiator will be. Mind you this is a 400 horse 6500 rpm setup. RPM and power make huge differences in resultant oil temp. A fellow competitor with a nearly identically setup C5 Z06 Corvette (same engine, oil cooler, nearly everything) was seeing 20-30 degrees more peak temp by simply turning 500 rpm more at a race last June at Road Atlanta. I have my stock 6600 rev limiter in place and he was turning 7100 in places (both stock engines with around 360 rwhp). I was staying 260 max vs. him approaching 290 which is generally the "back-off" point for these cars. We both have the same oil cooler kit with the Setrab 625.

The gentleman who built it said it will perform better than the stand-alone cooler given how much more efficient the radiator will be. Mind you this is a 400 horse 6500 rpm setup. RPM and power make huge differences in resultant oil temp. A fellow competitor with a nearly identically setup C5 Z06 Corvette (same engine, oil cooler, nearly everything) was seeing 20-30 degrees more peak temp by simply turning 500 rpm more at a race last June at Road Atlanta. I have my stock 6600 rev limiter in place and he was turning 7100 in places (both stock engines with around 360 rwhp). I was staying 260 max vs. him approaching 290 which is generally the "back-off" point for these cars. We both have the same oil cooler kit with the Setrab 625.

Just pulled the cooler out of my car Brian. It is actually a Mocal but is the equivalent of a Setrab 619, one size down from your Vette cooler.

As with all things race car, there is a bit of trial and error involved in gettings combo's spot on. I am sure I will now have enough oil cooler area but the unknown will be impact on radiator efficiency. This is a benefit I can see from your new set up as the airflow will be undisturbed over the entire radiator.

Agree on the rpm front Brian, although for me it has been more about cubes increase and more BTU's to dissipate. I am not planning on turning the new combo over 6400 in enduro trim as still 580hp on tap with this limit so pointless running the extra 400rpm.

Kel.

Post upgrading the hp in my car (600hp at the flywheel) I am looking at durability items. Can one of you with a GTS assist by advising the dimensions of the oil cooler in your car. Likewise what size is the diff cooler?

My GTRA has a cooler that is 330mm tall by 146mm wide and 50mm thick (a standard Setrab size that is rated for 220hp wet sump engines.......!!). The dimension is total length incluiding the brackets off the end of the finned portion. My car appears as though it has had a 400mm x 146mm cooler fitted at some stage and I wondered if this is the standard GTS sizing.

As we will be running in higher ambient temps in an upcoming race I was looking at either 400mm x 193mm or 400mm x 264mm options (rated for wet sump engines from 450 - 550hp).

Thanks, Kel.

Hi Kel,

The cooler on my GTS is a Setrab 50-948-4062 which is a different part number from Brian's. Also, based on Brian's picture my cooler appears to be significantly larger. My cooler measures roughly 14 & 1/4 inches by 14 & 3/4 inches w/o the mounting tabs.
I have always marveled at the wimpy -10 oil lines on my GTS. I'm currently upgrading to -12 oil lines which is what Ford Performance and every Ford engine builder I know recommends.

Bill F.
GTS #35
Tallahassee, FL.

Hi Kel,

The cooler on my GTS is a Setrab 50-948-4062 which is a different part number from Brian's. Also, based on Brian's picture my cooler appears to be significantly larger. My cooler measures roughly 14 & 1/4 inches by 14 & 3/4 inches w/o the mounting tabs.
I have always marveled at the wimpy -10 oil lines on my GTS. I'm currently upgrading to -12 oil lines which is what Ford Performance and every Ford engine builder I know recommends.

Bill F.
GTS #35
Tallahassee, FL.

Thanks for the feedback Bill, I settled on a cooler that is approx 13" x 12.75", so similar to yours.

Interesting comment re the -10 oil lines. When I fitted rocker covers with spring cooler spray bars to the 369 we did some track testing to get the oil jet size tailored. We got down to a .015" orifice jet in the end and the oil pressure would still just start to bleed off at 6200rpm in 5th gear (i.e. would start to decay from say 65 back to 50 by the time I needed to get out of the throttle. I put this down to available volume from the pump being insufficient to maintain pressure. Would be interesting to see what would happen if the oil lines were -12. May cure the problem due better supply. Needless to say I have the oilers blocked off at this stage (I did cure the problem I had that lead me to fit the covers with coolers in, but thats another story)!!

Kel.

Interesting comment on the oil cooler lines... I only really have experience with C5 Corvette stuff and all the kits out there use -10 fittings and lines. The pan we got for the Panoz uses -10 as well so that's what I went with.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e158/cvbowers/Panoz%20Pics/577103_4132904532168_1224472962_n.jpg

Thanks for the feedback Bill, I settled on a cooler that is approx 13" x 12.75", so similar to yours.

Interesting comment re the -10 oil lines. When I fitted rocker covers with spring cooler spray bars to the 369 we did some track testing to get the oil jet size tailored. We got down to a .015" orifice jet in the end and the oil pressure would still just start to bleed off at 6200rpm in 5th gear (i.e. would start to decay from say 65 back to 50 by the time I needed to get out of the throttle. I put this down to available volume from the pump being insufficient to maintain pressure. Would be interesting to see what would happen if the oil lines were -12. May cure the problem due better supply. Needless to say I have the oilers blocked off at this stage (I did cure the problem I had that lead me to fit the covers with coolers in, but thats another story)!!

Kel.

Kel,

As you know, with a wet sump motor oil flow volume (and sometimes pressure!) vary under track conditions -- there are so many variables. Personally I wouldn't worry too much about a 15 pound pressure drop so long as the oil temperature was good AND I was confident of the volume. I think tight bends, restrictive remote oil filter mount design, and marginal hose ID all impact volume more than pressure. But clearly you need both to effectively lube a race motor.

Obviously someone at Panoz doesn't agree with me on this since the remote oil filter on all the track cars is, simply, the most restrictive design money can buy. Interestingly it is also absolutely the least expensive piece that money can buy -- but my guess is that it was chosen because it has the inlet and outlet next to one another. That allowed all the tight bends in the marginal sized hose under the filter!

I'm moving my new remote filter mount well back in the engine bay to straighten out the -12 lines running to the oil/water heat exchanger in the radiator. I'm also tapping my Accusump directly into the block. Hopefully this will give my high-revving 302 a decent lease on life. But first I have to get it together!

Bill F.
GTS #35
Tallahassee FL.

Where are you going to mount the adapter? The GTRAs had it toward the rear on the driver's side vs. the GTS having it up front. I was going to mount ours up front in the GTS location.

GTRA location behind the heat shied on the outer upper frame rail.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/403492_3842031660528_1390448752_n.jpg

Vs. GTS location
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/665105_4398903141967_1645611352_o.jpg

Brian,
I won't make a final decision on the filter location until after my new radiator arrives from TAPP (thanks again) and I do a final mock up. Presently I plan to mount the filter on the firewall just above and outside the steering column and run the lines under the headers.. I fabricated a heavy aluminum mount to keep that extra heat away from the foot box and will add some additional shielding. I considered the GT-RA location but I check (and adjust) my external slave cylinder constantly and all those hot oil lines would be too close for comfort. Wherever you mount it, you may want to consider a quality mount.
I ran a radiator oil cooler on my vintage 302 (477 hp @ 7200 rpm) and never had a problem. I like the fact that it warms the oil when it's cold and cools it when it's hot -- perfect!
My comments on oil flow only apply to wet sump, dry sump is a whole different kettle of fish.
Bill.

That's cool to hear you used Tapp. I have no affiliation with them, but they seem to have done a great job at a great price and do work for many of the cup teams.

Much of this is up in the air for me as I'm not set on how I'm going to do the exhaust. The GTRA location doesn't work with the GTS headers using that real estate. I'm not sure if I'm going to fab some headers or use some sort of F-body or CTS-V manifold and use the similar side pipes as what came off the GTRA.

Our clutch is using an internal hydraulic unit so I won't have to deal with that stuff.

This is the first I've heard of the remote filter adapter being a poor piece... could you recommend ones that you think are quality? We never had an oil pressure issue with the SBFs using it, but I'm a perfectionist so if there's something better the I'm all ears.

Our LS1 will have a LS4 high volume pump so it should run around 50 PSI the majority of the time when the oil is hot... at least that's what I see in my Z06.

That's cool to hear you used Tapp. I have no affiliation with them, but they seem to have done a great job at a great price and do work for many of the cup teams.

Much of this is up in the air for me as I'm not set on how I'm going to do the exhaust. The GTRA location doesn't work with the GTS headers using that real estate. I'm not sure if I'm going to fab some headers or use some sort of F-body or CTS-V manifold and use the similar side pipes as what came off the GTRA.

Our clutch is using an internal hydraulic unit so I won't have to deal with that stuff.

This is the first I've heard of the remote filter adapter being a poor piece... could you recommend ones that you think are quality? We never had an oil pressure issue with the SBFs using it, but I'm a perfectionist so if there's something better the I'm all ears.

Our LS1 will have a LS4 high volume pump so it should run around 50 PSI the majority of the time when the oil is hot... at least that's what I see in my Z06.


By poor quality I mean restricted oil flow, cheap casting & machining. A nice piece is made by "CV" and a lot of Cup teams use them. It's billet and the machine work is excellent -- chamfered oil passages etc. They go for about $75 to $95 used on eBay -- compared to the OEM Panoz piece @ $21 new. There's one on eBay now, but beware that most of the NASCAR stuff is -12. The unit I purchased (used) included -12 male in & out fittings plus a fitting for my mechanical oil temp gauge (I never liked having that in the sump) and a 1/8 pipe fitting for my op/fuel pump kill switch -- perfect for my application.

If you go new, Moroso makes a quality unit for about $150, Canton makes quality units as well. To me the key is to look inside for a large radius and a minimum of sharp edges and openings should be enlarged or chamfered. Hopefully the various manufacturers web site will have good pix.

Finally, I'm not savvy enough to post pix or send private messages, but if you want to send me your email address I will send you pix of the things we have discussed.

Bill.

Kel,

As you know, with a wet sump motor oil flow volume (and sometimes pressure!) vary under track conditions -- there are so many variables. Personally I wouldn't worry too much about a 15 pound pressure drop so long as the oil temperature was good AND I was confident of the volume. I think tight bends, restrictive remote oil filter mount design, and marginal hose ID all impact volume more than pressure. But clearly you need both to effectively lube a race motor.

Obviously someone at Panoz doesn't agree with me on this since the remote oil filter on all the track cars is, simply, the most restrictive design money can buy. Interestingly it is also absolutely the least expensive piece that money can buy -- but my guess is that it was chosen because it has the inlet and outlet next to one another. That allowed all the tight bends in the marginal sized hose under the filter!

I'm moving my new remote filter mount well back in the engine bay to straighten out the -12 lines running to the oil/water heat exchanger in the radiator. I'm also tapping my Accusump directly into the block. Hopefully this will give my high-revving 302 a decent lease on life. But first I have to get it together!

Bill F.
GTS #35
Tallahassee FL.

Agreed Bill, lots of variables. We havent had any pressure drop issues, until we diverted some of the oil vol to the spring spray bars. That told me how marginal the overall volume was but given we can get by not running the spray bars I have disconnected them. On the -10 Vs -12 oil lines, if I were building a 6500rpm+ engine I would probably go -12 as well unless you could eliminate the bends from the -10 set up.

You may have noted Bill that I have also plumbed my Accusump into the block (feeds into the main gallery at the back of the block). A trick with this is to be careful in valve selection (i.e. the accusump electrical pressure valves) if you plumb into the back as the pressure drop across the block means that if you have say 65lb going in, at the back it may be only 45 or 50lbs. I am running the heavy duty 3 quart model in my car and it seems to work well. I have only found 1 corner on 1 track where it seems to be needed.........but that is well enough to justify its fitment.

Kel.

I was at CV Products over Christmas and know exactly the remote filter adapter you speak of. I even picked it up and admired it. Interesting idea to have the fuel pump wired to a low oil pressure switch. I'm wiring in a very large red light that turns on at 20 psi.

I was at CV Products over Christmas and know exactly the remote filter adapter you speak of. I even picked it up and admired it. Interesting idea to have the fuel pump wired to a low oil pressure switch. I'm wiring in a very large red light that turns on at 20 psi.

Brian,

The low oil pressure/fuel pump switch is for safety reasons.

If the motor quits so does the electric fuel pump. In a big shunt you may not be able to quickly reach the master electrical cut-off switch, particularly if injury is involved. If the car is on its' side or a fuel line is severed the fuel pump will work overtime until the safety crew arrives to turn off the electrics. I run a three pole sender which also activates the (20 psi) low oil pressure warning light as well. I use a momentary interrupt switch to get sufficient fuel to start the car.

I had a big shunt in 2001 and discovered that switches which easily fell to hand while right-side-up were unreachable when hanging in the harness upside-down. Changes were made.

Bill.

I fully understand the logic... all very good ideas.

I run the stock GTS oil filter adapter and I guess I run it in the GTRA location. Its in the back between the upper frame rail and the triangular smaller rail. The oil lines run on top of the frame rail wrapped in shielding. The stock GTS location is vulnerable to crash damage and I have had issues at that location. I never liked that the oil lines run over the headers but I have not found a better spot that is protected. I have also tapped the housing to pull oil pressure at the filter.

Maybe its contributing to my 260 oil temps when its 90 outside but how much I don't know.

I run the stock GTS oil filter adapter and I guess I run it in the GTRA location. Its in the back between the upper frame rail and the triangular smaller rail. The oil lines run on top of the frame rail wrapped in shielding. The stock GTS location is vulnerable to crash damage and I have had issues at that location. I never liked that the oil lines run over the headers but I have not found a better spot that is protected. I have also tapped the housing to pull oil pressure at the filter.

Maybe its contributing to my 260 oil temps when its 90 outside but how much I don't know.

The oil temp sender location is an interesting one. I was comparing oil temps with another racer over here thinking mine were high. Problem is a lot of racers measure oil temp after the cooler. I am more interested in what it is coming out of the engine as then at least you know the max that the oil is being subjected to.

What size cooler are you running Brian? With a dry sump if your cooler size is right your oil temp should be reasonable.

Kel.

I was running the large factory Panoz GTS cooler that is about 14" x 14" probably the same one Bill mentioned previously in this post. While chasing water cooling issues my race shop thought I was blocking too much radiator and switched me to the one they use in their drysumped Vipers and its about 12" x 5" (probably like the one Brian B. mentioned above).

I cant remember where my oil temp pickup is. Probably where Panoz put it in all the GTS's but I would have to verify (my new race shop is almost built and hopefully the GTS will come out of the trailer soon).

I was running the large factory Panoz GTS cooler that is about 14" x 14" probably the same one Bill mentioned previously in this post. While chasing water cooling issues my race shop thought I was blocking too much radiator and switched me to the one they use in their drysumped Vipers and its about 12" x 5" (probably like the one Brian B. mentioned above).

I cant remember where my oil temp pickup is. Probably where Panoz put it in all the GTS's but I would have to verify (my new race shop is almost built and hopefully the GTS will come out of the trailer soon).

Interesting, so what was the difference in oil temps between the 14 x 14 cooler and the 12 x 5 Brian?

Kel.

I have not run the car with the smaller cooler yet. :-(

I have not run the car with the smaller cooler yet. :-(


Well I have just changed the other way so will let you know how that pans out.

FWIW our car has the filter adapter tapped for pressure and temp sending units. I agree that temp after the cooler is worthless.

I was running the large factory Panoz GTS cooler that is about 14" x 14" probably the same one Bill mentioned previously in this post. While chasing water cooling issues my race shop thought I was blocking too much radiator and switched me to the one they use in their drysumped Vipers and its about 12" x 5" (probably like the one Brian B. mentioned above).

I cant remember where my oil temp pickup is. Probably where Panoz put it in all the GTS's but I would have to verify (my new race shop is almost built and hopefully the GTS will come out of the trailer soon).


Brian, the answer to the question of differing oil cooler size was 20 degs Celcius on my car. I.e. with the GTRA cooler oil temp was usually 130 degs C for the enitre race and with a GTS size cooler temps is now steady around 110 degs C.

Fitment of the larger oil cooler (basically doubled in size) did not affect water temp at all in my car. Water temp is steady all through endurance races at an indicated 84 degs C.

Kel.