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Airbrush + compressor advise


keveuh
09-20-2012, 02:19 AM
Hello everyone, I'm thinking about getting an airbrush for painting model cars. I would paint not only the body parts but also the interior parts and certainly engine parts as well.

I thought about getting the Neo for Iwata CN airbrush:
http://www.hiroboy.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=49&products_id=4245

Would that airbrush be sufficient to paint all I want to paint with ? I know it's maybe not the best one but that would be my first airbrush for me to start and of course I'd like a decent, working one. According to some reviews on the web it does its job well...


For the compressor I'm much more lost, because there seems to be a lot of factors to consider, for exemple how much PSI will I need ?
But I found this compressor, which seems to be for airbrush use, at a local website here in Finland:
http://www.biltema.fi/sv-fi/Verktyg/Tryckluft/Kompressor/Minikompressor-MC-90-17370/

Ok, so the page is in swedish, but that's what it says:
Oil-free piston compressor designed for airbrush paint sprayers.
Supplied with pressure regulator, pressure gauge and water separator.
Power: 90 W;
Automatic start / stop.
Maximum. 4 bar.
Airflow: 23 l / min.
Weight: 5 kg.
230 V.

Do you think this compressor would do its job ? Or should I need a more powerful one ?


That's about my hardware questions, first I'd like to know if these 2 products above are good enough for the job, and then later I might have few more questions about how to use paint and what kind of thinner for what paint etc...

Thanks a lot for your help !

MidMazar
09-20-2012, 08:11 AM
The airbrush you picked out is a great starting brush IMO. Iwata make reliable brushes, only down fall is finding parts is a little tricky. I have a iwata HP and love it. As for the compressor, i would recommend a compressor that has a tank. That way your pressure will stay the same at all points of airbrushing. Compressors without tanks make the pressure go down once you press the trigger. So you almost have to feather the trigger. The compressor you picked out will work and i believe is a good starting one. But i would reccomend one with a tank.

For the pressure you will haveto see what works for you. So a lot of experimenting. Around 15-25 psi is what i spray at.

935k3
09-20-2012, 08:38 AM
Try this link for good info and reviews on airbrushes(including the NEO).

https://sites.google.com/site/donsairbrushtips/

keveuh
09-20-2012, 08:56 AM
Thanks for the answer MidMazar ! but how do you know that the compressor I chose doesn't have any tank ? (stupid question I guess).

And I'll check the link 935k3, thanks ;)

stevenoble
09-20-2012, 10:02 AM
The airbrush you chose is an excellent starter airbrush. The top mounted gravity feed cup is great for when you only want to mix small amounts of paint and also the fact that it's gravity fed means it will work with lower PSI/BAR so you won't need as powerful a compressor. The only thing I would say is that usually a 0.5mm tip is preferred for painting model car bodies and this one has a 0.35mm tip. But to start off with it seems like an excellent choice. You can always upgrade later and get a better airbrush to use for bodies and keep this one for painting all the smaller parts, like seats, engines, wheels etc..
The compressor stats read pretty good too. I would agree that the lack of a tank is a minus point (if indeed it has no tank) I would check that first. But the air displacement of 23 litres per minute and the 60 PSI pressure, are all good enough for airbrushing.

Vric
09-20-2012, 10:22 AM
Iwata airbrush are among the best you can find. The Neo series although are made in China with lesser quality. I don't know how much better the iwata normal line are, but it might be something to consider.

I Personally have an Iwata HP-CP and loves it. I would suggest looking on ebay for an Iwata CR Revolution, which will run you not much more than the Neo (I have seen some for $90us)

As for the compressor, it should be ok. Enough power for modeling and a regulator. As for the tank suggestion, it's not a must have. Even with a tank, the airflow will go down once you press the trigger. It's normal for all compressor. Just be sure there's a coiled hose before the regulator or something to buffer the air or you might have pulse while spraying. After all, most airbrush compressor by Iwata and badger don't have a tank and are highly recommended. I personally use an Iwata Smartjet and love it more than my old 100psi with tank compressor.

keveuh
09-20-2012, 11:29 AM
Thanks again for all the help.

Vric, you talk about a coiled hose, what's the purpose of it ? Can I get this at hobby website ? And where exactly should I pulg this ?

As for the lack of a tank and therefore the airflow not being continuous, and can this affect the use of the airbrush, I mean in practice ?

If I'm not mistaken, the Iwata CR Revolution, wouldn't it be also called HP-CR ? Cause in that case it costs twice as much as the Neo.

stevenoble
09-20-2012, 12:56 PM
Thanks again for all the help.

Vric, you talk about a coiled hose, what's the purpose of it ? Can I get this at hobby website ? And where exactly should I pulg this ?

As for the lack of a tank and therefore the airflow not being continuous, and can this affect the use of the airbrush, I mean in practice ?

If I'm not mistaken, the Iwata CR Revolution, wouldn't it be also called HP-CR ? Cause in that case it costs twice as much as the Neo.

The coiled hose replaces a straight hose. Both of them connect to the compressor at the air outlet and then your airbrush goes onto the other end. Rumour has it that a coiled hose will help to smooth the airflow to the airbrush. Sometimes when a compressor has no tank the air will come out with a pulsing effect. The coiled hose aims to eliminate this. Obviously an air tank will store the air and then you have plenty air in reserve so that you get a nice smooth flow of air and no pulsing.
The Iwata HP-C and Revolution CR are two different brushes. The Revolution CR is cheaper than the HP-C..

keveuh
09-20-2012, 01:06 PM
Yes I was mixing names, sorry for that. So the Revolution CR is still twice as much expensive as a Neo.

I would buy it at hiroboy, they seem to have the best prices, at least in europe. And there the Neo is at around 50€ and the Revo CR is at 100€.

stevenoble
09-20-2012, 01:16 PM
Yes I was mixing names, sorry for that. So the Revolution CR is still twice as much expensive as a Neo.

I would buy it at hiroboy, they seem to have the best prices, at least in europe. And there the Neo is at around 50€ and the Revo CR is at 100€.

I've just bought the Revo CR from Hiroboy and it's a great brush, really easy to use and simple to clean, I'd recommend it 100%. It is slightly more expensive though like you said, so you need to factor that in. I would just say best advice is to get the best one you can afford or you'll probably end up upgrading later anyway. Not to take anything away from the Neo though, it's still a great brush for the price..

Vric
09-20-2012, 04:01 PM
Steve answered the questions. The coiled hose help eliminating the air pulse. Not sure if it really work, but it's what Iwata use for their own compressor.

As for the airbrush, I love HiroBoy (really) but his price on iwata product are quite high compared to US or Japan. Look around a bit, you will be able to get a Revolution for $20-$30 more I'm sure and shipping won't be much more. (I see many on ebay for $90 right now)

I got my HP-CP for about $170 a while ago (and it's a $400 airbrush here in Canada)

keveuh
09-21-2012, 01:34 AM
Vric, I see your from Quebec, do you happen to speak french ?

Otherwise I thought about the Rev CR too, I've checked on ebay and yes they are cheaper from USA BUT as an european customer I need to think about customer taxes and these can be pretty high, so even if I bought one on ebay for 80€ I might en uo have to pay an extra 50€ of custom taxes and therefore I think I'll stick with hiroboy.


And I had another very important question, I wonder if using Tamiya acrylics/Revell-Humbrol enamels/Zero paints with an airbrush indoors will generate as much toxic fumes as Tamiya lacquers do ? Because the main reasons an airbrush is so interesting for me is that I could shoot paint indoors. Which is very hard to do for me right now with Tamiya lacquers and here in Finland it's already cold and it will just get colder and therefore not the best of option to spray outside.
So is toxic fumes a big issue with airbrush as well ?

Thank you very much !


EDIT: a little update, I have kept searching for compressors and I found this which offers a coiled hose:
http://tuontitukku.fi/tuote/kompressori-kynäruiskulle/6419773646195/
The specs seems to be a bit higher than the one I mentioned in my first post but still no tank and it looks a lot like an Iwata Sprint Jet. I'm also thinking about getting the Revo CR instead of the Neo, but I still need some questions answered like the toxicity of the fumes compared to Tamiya spray cans.

Vric
09-21-2012, 08:16 AM
your last compressor looks like a copy of the iwata sprintjet with a Paasche regulator. Looks just like it.

As for fume, yes there's still some. Less than TS paint, but still make fumes. If it's a concern, I suggest you to make a DIY spray booth (look on ebay for some idea) I have made one with a plastic storage bins and a bathroom fan. Cost me about $40 to do. Similar to this: http://urightbrothers.blogspot.ca/2012/07/scale-modelling-spray-booth.html
That works really great even with harmful paint.

and yes, I'm french speaking :)

keveuh
09-21-2012, 08:24 AM
Well since you're from Quebec you certainly understand my concern, if I make a spraybooth and let the fumes go out from a hose to an opened window, and if it's winter, meaning from -10C to -30C here, wouldn't that make the room very cold to paint in and then mess with the painting.

And I think it's pretty cold in winter in Quebec that's why you can relate to this issue I guess, how do you do yourself ?

et on pourrait parler francais alors ;)

Oh yeah and before I forget you say that compressor looks like a iwata sprintjet with Paasche regulator, that means it looks good right ?

Vric
09-21-2012, 10:47 AM
I can open the window just toe width of the fan exhaust. Since the air come out, it's not too bad. Sure at -30C you will be freezing after an hour, but for usual pait job, it's good. And a little chill is always better than having fume stuck in your home for hours.

And yea it's a good thing about the compressor. I don't know if it's better than the other one, but it looks like the Iwata one that cost much more.

Here's my setup:
http://scalemodels.magietec.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/iwata.jpg
Iwata SmartJet, Paasche regulator and Iwata HP-CP.. looks a lot like the one on your picture.

keveuh
09-21-2012, 11:09 AM
Looks really nice that one and I thought about it at once when I saw the one I showed, hopefully it's not too far behind the quality of the Iwata.

And since you use Zero paints, I wondered if it's a good idea to buy few paint colors at once, or will they turn bad over time even if unopened ? And how many car bodies can you paint with one jar of Zero paint ?

And lastely since I also see you use Tamiya primer, is your spray booth powerful enough to vent the fumes from a spray can ?

Vric
09-21-2012, 11:33 AM
Can't comment on Zero Paint, I started using them yesterday. I know they don't recommend buying too much upfront. Life shelf looks to be 6-9month before you have to add thinner again. I think a bottle is good enough for 3-4 body.

As for spraybooth and paint, yes it's strong enough. I took a 100cfm bathroom fan (about 30m3/s) which is good enough. There's no smell left in the room once I'm done.

keveuh
09-21-2012, 11:39 AM
So 100cfm is good enough even when you sray with a can ? that's great !!

And so you don't have any tank on your compressor either, does it ever mess with your work ?

Sorry for so many question but I really need a max of info.

stevenoble
09-21-2012, 01:47 PM
I can answer about the Zero paints if it helps as I use a lot of them on my builds and also their clear coats too. They dry with a matt/semi matt finish, so they have to be clear coated to get a good shine. They are very easy to use, spray beautifully and dry incredibly quickly. You can spray the colour coat, leave to dry for as little as 20-30 minutes and then apply the clear coat. So it's possible to go from prepared primer to finished top coat in less than an hour. This suits the way I build as I don't want to wait days for enamels to dry before I can finish them. Buy what you need when you need them. It's not a good idea to buy many in advance as they can dry out before you use them.
You will need some form of extraction booth if you intend to spray them indoors as they are very smelly. I use an A300-SD spray booth from Graphic Air and this is the best purchase I ever made. Very good, powerful extractor, quiet in use and reliable with a lifetime warranty. Only slight downside is the replacement filters are only available as a six pack which costs £80, but they usually last me about 18 months to 2 years, so not that bad really.
I solved the issue of cold by purchasing a Mr Dry Booth and this too is a great bit of kit. I use it to dry primers, paints, clears, putty and all manner of things. It really is a great time saver and above all it eliminates the problems associated with painting in the colder months..

Spray Booth

http://www.graphicair.co.uk/products/GraphicAir-A300S%252dD-Air-Extraction-Cabinets-%28wxhxd-565x390x430%29.html

Mr Dry Booth

http://www.hlj.com/product/GNZGT04

This is very similar to my compressor but mine has an air tank built into the handle, so this stops the pulsing effect you sometimes get..

Compressor

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/shhh-air-compressor-2

RonCla
09-21-2012, 05:52 PM
Those filters are expensive Steve. I have a different brand of spray booth but had the same issue of expensive replacement filters.

With a bit of looking around I found a local company that specialized in retailing all manner of filtration and after taking a sample to them I bought a square meter of matching filter material and then just cut it up to size. It works out at one tenth the price.

keveuh
09-22-2012, 01:43 AM
Steve, thank you for your answer it was indeed very helpful regarding Zero paints.
The problem I have now is that buying even one jar of zero paint would cost me 20€ of shipping cost which makes buyuing one color at a time very costly !

Therefore I wonder is there any other paint which are good to use for car bodies and of course usable through an airbrush ? Please don't tell me about decanting spray cans because one of the reason I wanna go airbrush is to be able to do without those "hard to get cans".

also something that I don't get any answers for: do I need to put primer on parts I want to paint with tamiya/gunza acrylics or humbrol enamels ? Or is the primer needed only for more "powerful" paints such as zero paints ?

And finally, I'm thinking right now what I should get:
should I rather get a Neo brush with a compressor + tank
OR
Should I rather get a Iwata Revo CR with a tankless compressor ??

What do you suggest ?

Thank you all again !

stevenoble
09-22-2012, 05:38 AM
Steve, thank you for your answer it was indeed very helpful regarding Zero paints.
The problem I have now is that buying even one jar of zero paint would cost me 20€ of shipping cost which makes buyuing one color at a time very costly !

Therefore I wonder is there any other paint which are good to use for car bodies and of course usable through an airbrush ? Please don't tell me about decanting spray cans because one of the reason I wanna go airbrush is to be able to do without those "hard to get cans".

also something that I don't get any answers for: do I need to put primer on parts I want to paint with tamiya/gunza acrylics or humbrol enamels ? Or is the primer needed only for more "powerful" paints such as zero paints ?

And finally, I'm thinking right now what I should get:
should I rather get a Neo brush with a compressor + tank
OR
Should I rather get a Iwata Revo CR with a tankless compressor ??

What do you suggest ?

Thank you all again !

Where are you located..?? I usually use Zero paints as they are very good and being based in the UK the postage for me is reasonable. I can see the problem for you though with those high sipping costs. They do store a lot better now they are supplied in glass jars. Sometimes just adding a little thinner to them revives them, so they are not lost forever. I meant just don't buy 20-30 bottles if you're not going to use them all. But I would say anything maybe that you'll use in 6 months- 1 year would be ok..
A good alternative I also use is Mr Color lacquer paints. They are basically like Tamiya TS sprays, very similar to use and apply, dry very fast and also most with a gloss finish, so no need to clear coat them, although you can if you wish. They come in little glass jars for airbrush use and they need thinning, I use Mr Color Levelling thinner for that. If you look on eBay there is a guy who sells them with free shipping (Kenncer online store by icanucan) he is very good, with pretty quick delivery and excellent prices.
You don't need to use a primer with enamels, Tamiya or Gunze acrylics, but you can if you want to. I tend to spray them straight onto the prepared plastic parts without a primer, but only for engine, suspension parts etc. I always use a primer on the body parts no matter what paint I use. You must use a primer with Zero paints as they can craze the plastic, they are quite 'hot' in paint terms. I also use primer with Tamiya TS, Mr Color and most lacquer paints. You can get away without it in some cases but it's better with it.
I think for the compressor I would start with a tanked compressor and a Neo brush and see how you go. Buy the best compressor you can afford and think to the future when you may want a more powerful airbrush that takes more air to run it. A good compressor will allow you to do that whereas a poorer one won't. You don't want to have to upgrade to a better compressor later, I made that mistake and I regretted it. I should have bought the better one at the start. You can add another airbrush at a later date, when the need arises. You'll probably want to do this anyway as maybe one brush won't do everything. I hope this helps with your decision, best regards..

stevenoble
09-22-2012, 05:49 AM
Those filters are expensive Steve. I have a different brand of spray booth but had the same issue of expensive replacement filters.

With a bit of looking around I found a local company that specialized in retailing all manner of filtration and after taking a sample to them I bought a square meter of matching filter material and then just cut it up to size. It works out at one tenth the price.

I've been looking at doing the same. I've found a place on the internet that sells the same material used in the filters (like green and white spun glass fibre) You can get a 1m x 20m roll of the stuff for around 30 pounds, I think that would last me a lifetime..!! There is also another material on the back of the filter, like a thinner dense cotton type stuff. I think this is mainly there as a final dust stopper just before the fan assembly. I haven't managed to find this anywhere yet but I'll keep looking. If I could make up my own filters it would be a great help..

keveuh
09-22-2012, 07:37 AM
Thanks a lot for your answer Steve.

I know Icanucan, I've never ordered from him but I saw he had a looooooot of stuff.
I live in Finland, and anything sent to me from Hiroboy will at least be shipped for 20€...

I've checked the mr color paints, but I'm a bit confused. Are there different mr color paints ? Because you talk about lacquer paints but I thought they were acrylics, or maybe they are both ? I thought they could be thinned with alcohol like the Tamiya acrylics... and so these mr color lacquers give a good shine for body parts, excatly like Tamiya TS spray cans ? If that the case that's wonderful cause for me Tamiya TS really give an awesome look when well used.

As for the compressor and tank, any compressor with a tank will do ? Or are there some which are just crap ? I guess I should avoid the super cheap ones. And the humidity trap is a must ?

stevenoble
09-22-2012, 08:00 AM
Thanks a lot for your answer Steve.

I know Icanucan, I've never ordered from him but I saw he had a looooooot of stuff.
I live in Finland, and anything sent to me from Hiroboy will at least be shipped for 20€...

I've checked the mr color paints, but I'm a bit confused. Are there different mr color paints ? Because you talk about lacquer paints but I thought they were acrylics, or maybe they are both ? I thought they could be thinned with alcohol like the Tamiya acrylics... and so these mr color lacquers give a good shine for body parts, excatly like Tamiya TS spray cans ? If that the case that's wonderful cause for me Tamiya TS really give an awesome look when well used.

As for the compressor and tank, any compressor with a tank will do ? Or are there some which are just crap ? I guess I should avoid the super cheap ones. And the humidity trap is a must ?

You need the Mr Color paints. They say Mr Color on the label on the jar. They are the lacquer based paints. Yes, the best way I can describe them is Tamiya TS in a jar. They are very good to spray and if applied well they give a beautiful gloss finish which dries incredibly fast and it's very tough, so it resists any finger marks when handled. They also polish up fantastically. I can't recommend them enough. Only thin them with the Mr Color Levelling Thinner, that is the best stuff I've found for them. Clean out your airbrush with regular cheap lacquer thinner and save the Levelling Thinner only for thinning the paints.
The other colours you are confusing them with are the Gunze Aqueous Hobby Colour which are acrylics and more or less the same like Tamiya X and XF range jar paints. They come in a glass jar the same as the Mr Color paints, but with different labelling. You can thin them with the Tamiya acrylic thinner. They are not the same as the Mr Color jar lacquer paints.
I would have a good look at all the compressors carefully before you decide which one to buy. The one I have has been fantastic and has given me nearly 22 years of trouble free service. Only maintenance is a yearly oil change and cleaning the air filter every month. It has a built in tank, like I said in the handle, can go from 0-80 PSI, which is more than enough for all my brushes. It puts out around 20 litres per minute so you never run out of air. It's also practically silent in use, which is a real plus point for any compressor. It came with a pressure gauge, regulator and moisture trap, which are essential. I added a braided hose to complete the set up. I don't think you can buy them anymore but it's a Premi Air Model SS20e. If it ever breaks I would replace it with one of these Bambi units, as they are a great spec and a reasonable price for what you're getting..

http://www.graphicair.co.uk/products/Bambi-BB8-Silent-Compressor.html

keveuh
09-22-2012, 08:12 AM
http://stores.ebay.com/Kenncer-Online-Store-by-icanucan/Mr-Hobby-/_i.html?_fsub=3289425017&_sid=61436737&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

So these paints are lacquers ? none there are acrylics, right ? And as primer I can use theit mr surfacer products ? Still lacquers ? I see they have them called 500, 1000, 1200, and I'm not sure what that means.

Do you have any recommendation how to use these paints ? Thinning ratio, pressure ? And also do they last in jars ?

Thank you !

stevenoble
09-22-2012, 08:20 AM
http://stores.ebay.com/Kenncer-Online-Store-by-icanucan/Mr-Hobby-/_i.html?_fsub=3289425017&_sid=61436737&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

So these paints are lacquers ? none there are acrylics, right ? And as primer I can use theit mr surfacer products ? Still lacquers ? I see they have them called 500, 1000, 1200, and I'm not sure what that means.

Do you have any recommendation how to use these paints ? Thinning ratio, pressure ? And also do they last in jars ?

Thank you !

Yes, those are the right type. The lacquer kind. As soon as you smell them you'll know the difference as they are much stronger than the acrylic kind. You can use the Mr Surfacer primers under them and they are excellent..!! Still lacquers, yes. The numbers 500, 1000 and 1200 are the grades. 500 is the roughest and 1200 is their smoothest. A bit like they have grades on sandpaper.
I thin them 60% paint 40% thinner. So 6ml of paint would thin with 4ml of thinner 60:40. Sometimes I use a 50:50 mix on hotter days which gives them a bit more flow. Sprayed at 20-25psi with my airbrush, but try that and experiment with yours to get the best results. They last a long time. I've had some I purchased over 2 years ago and they are still good to go..

keveuh
09-22-2012, 08:52 AM
Ok, so if I make a little conclusion of all the information I gathered so far:

- I should rather get a compressor + tank and a Neo brush
- I can use Tamiya acrylics and thin/clean with alcohol, humbrol enamel thin with their own thinner and clean with white spirit, same for Zero paints = their primer/clear coat/thinner/cleaner, and finally same with mr hobby. I wonder if I can use Tamiya primer (spray can) under mr color lacquers ?

Another question: when I clean the airbrush, is it enough to rinse it with cleaner and wipe the needle clean with a paper ? Or do I have to do some heavy cleaning ?
I long should I wait between coats of Tamiya acrylics, and mr color paints ? Can I leave the paint in the cup of the brush between coats ?

Edit:
Searching the compressor/tank, I found these:

http://www.biltema.fi/sv-fi/Verktyg/Tryckluft/Kompressor/Kompressor-OL-15-6-17637/

http://tuontitukku.fi/tuote/kompressori-einhell-bt-ac-230-24-edullinen!/4006825566772/

http://tuontitukku.fi/tuote/kompressori-aicon-24l-2-5hp-laadukas-yleis-kompressori/6419773638336/

The first one being the smallest of them, none of them seem to have a humidity trap, but there is one:
http://www.biltema.fi/sv-fi/Verktyg/Tryckluft/Tillbehor/Vattenavskiljare-17299/

I just wonder how I should connect the humidity trap to the compressor ?? then I guess I'll just buy a Iwata hose 1/4" to 1/8". If those compressor are good enough I might be able to get an Iwata airbrush.

stevenoble
09-22-2012, 02:57 PM
I think the compressors you posted are going to be noisy. That small one is 80db noise level. I think mines about 30db, so it's 2.5 times noisier. Depends if noise is a problem for you. The specs look fine though. The other 2 look more like garage compressors, maybe a little too big for home use..?? Suppose it depends where you are keeping it.
Yes you can use Tamiya primer (spray can) under all those paints. It's what I use most of the time, or the Mr Surfacer range. Just flush the airbrush through with clean thinner and wipe the needle, that's what I do, unless I have a problem which then I dissemble the brush and give it a thorough cleaning. Give 5 minutes between coats and yes, you can leave the paint in the airbrush between coats.

Kaj45rpm
09-22-2012, 03:18 PM
Hi Mate, I bought my compressor and airbrush as a kit from www.rdgtools.co.uk (http://www.rdgtools.co.uk)


AIRBRUSH COMPRESSOR (WITH TANK) AND 2 DOUBLE ACTION AIRBRUSHES
Ref: 769080
TOP OF RANGE AIRBRUSH COMPRESSOR (WITH TANK) AND 2 DOUBLE ACTION AIRBRUSHES AND HOSE
Used for all Air brush work
ART WORK , NAIL WORK
Specification here... (javascript:ShowPopUp('info%5f769080%2ehtml',400,3 50);)
Price: £79.17

Free UK Mainland Postage
(£95.00 Including VAT at 20%)



This works very well, very quiet and the airbrush seems pretty good quality. Only thing I changed was a 0.5mm needle and nozzle which I bought extra. I've started using Zero paints and so far very good results, (although I've still to spray the 2K clear coat). I use an extractor booth and facemask when painting.

keveuh
09-23-2012, 01:32 AM
Thanks again Steve, and Thank you as well Kaj45rpm.

Since yesterday I've continued my researches and on Don's blog about airbrush he says that for a first airbrush and especially for car modelers a Paasche H would be a good idea because it's easy to use and clean.
So yes it is single action, I understand that, but I also understand that I shouldn't need to do fine details when painting a car, I mean if I ever need to paint a fine line for example I would just use masking tape... or am I wrong with this too ??

I searched for a place to get one of these Paasche H, and I found this website and ths kit:
http://www.boutiqueaerographe.com/AEROGRAPHE-ET-COMPRESSEUR-PAASCHE/c39_82/p1128/A%C3%A9rographe-PAASCHE-H202-et-Compresseur-Cuve/product_info.html

(yes it's in french but I'm french, that's why I look what they have in France too)
Seems to be quite a good kit this one and for a decent price, a similar kit but with an Iwata Revo CR instead would cost 40-50€ more.

Paasche H vs Iwata Rev CR ?

Vric
09-23-2012, 07:34 AM
Iwata all the way. Paasche is a good airbrush, but not in the same league as iwata.

I went from a Paasche to a dual action badger anthem then to iwata. All were good, but it was a huge upgrade each time. It's like comparing a toy with a tool imo.

stevenoble
09-23-2012, 07:46 AM
Iwata all the way. Paasche is a good airbrush, but not in the same league as iwata.

Agree 100%. I had a Paasche myself a long time ago and wasn't impressed. The Badger's are good brushes, but mine always seemed to need the Teflon seal replacing and as you have to send it away to have that done it got tedious in the end...

keveuh
09-23-2012, 10:20 AM
Well that's good you answered about the Paasche vs Iwata because I really thought the Paasche was at the level of the Iwata.

but anyway, today I went to a local supermarket, I checked their tool department and they had this compressor:
http://tuontitukku.fi/tuote/kompressori-einhell-bt-ac-230-24-edullinen!/4006825566772/?jsh_id=vhtn4c44rakk92pq53t6u90f52

for 99€, now my only issue with it is the humidity/moisture trap, I have NO idea what I should take and how I should plug that to it...

stevenoble
09-23-2012, 02:35 PM
my only issue with it is the humidity/moisture trap, I have NO idea what I should take and how I should plug that to it...

I think looking at the picture you will need to buy a replacement regulator that has a built in moisture trap. Then simply remove the one that is already fitted to the compressor you posted (just unscrews) and screw the new one in place. I don't think you can buy just a moisture trap and fit it onto that regulator..

You need the complete unit as circled below in red. The part I circled in green is where you connect your hose and then the airbrush at the end of the hose..

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/stevenoble/15_export_bigx_zps38266d93.jpg

Also make sure you fit the regulator the right way round. If you fit it the wrong way you'll get no air at the airbrush. I did that once and felt a complete idiot when I went back to the shop to tell them it didn't work.. :lol:

RonCla
09-23-2012, 06:01 PM
Well that's good you answered about the Paasche vs Iwata because I really thought the Paasche was at the level of the Iwata.

but anyway, today I went to a local supermarket, I checked their tool department and they had this compressor:
http://tuontitukku.fi/tuote/kompressori-einhell-bt-ac-230-24-edullinen!/4006825566772/?jsh_id=vhtn4c44rakk92pq53t6u90f52

for 99€, now my only issue with it is the humidity/moisture trap, I have NO idea what I should take and how I should plug that to it...

That compressor looks very similiar to my one. A typical home handyman type compressor.

I find my one a bit noisy when running but because it has a 24l tank I simply run it till the tank is fill then turn it off. A fill tank will last me a whole evening of airbrushing.

935k3
09-23-2012, 09:56 PM
I have had a few Paasche and Badger air brushes and I have had an Iawata Eclipse gravity feed for a few years now. I do love my Iwata but recently I boght Paasche's newest airbrush the Talon and I absolutely love it. I like the bigger cup and the pre-set needle handle. I got the set with all three needles and tips and an adjustable fan spray tip. It also came with a hose. I paid about $120.00 for it. The parts are very sturdy and cost allot less than an Iawata See the pic below. BTW you can actually change the needle bearing in a Badger yourself. I use a brass rod of the correct size and gently tap the old one out the front of the airbrush, then tap the new one in the front until you feel it seat. I have done it numerous times on my Crescendo.
http://cdn.dickblick.com/items/250/85/25085-1001-3ww-l.jpg

RonCla
09-23-2012, 11:04 PM
That Talon airbrush looks almost too good to get dirty....

keveuh
09-24-2012, 01:10 AM
Thanks guy s for the answers.

RonCla, since you have a similar compressor did you have to had a hunidity trap on it ? if yes how did you do it ? Is is a oil compressor you have too, do you think it's too noisy for appartement use ?

Steve what you said to had would make sense, Ijust wonder if it would be that easy to change or if I would have to get some extra connectors to fit it and the hose to the airbrush, causet that compressor has quick connector, and I don't know if this fits then:
http://www.hiroboy.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=49&products_id=2179


953k3,I'll take a look at the Talon, I saw that I could get it with a set of accessories (needles + hose etc..) for 99€ which is few euros less than the Iwata revolution cr.

RonCla
09-24-2012, 03:02 AM
[QUOTE=keveuh;7002454]Thanks guy s for the answers.

RonCla, since you have a similar compressor did you have to had a hunidity trap on it ? if yes how did you do it ? Is is a oil compressor you have too, do you think it's too noisy for appartement use ?

I did add a humidity trap at the end of a 10m air line from the compressor. A humidity trap is always good insurance to filter out any impurities coming down the air line though in all the time i've used mine I have yet to see a drop of water or dirt in it

I put a quick release fitting on the outlet side of the trap and then just plug my air brushes in to that.

The compressor I have is an oil compressor.

If you can hear your neighbours in their apartment I would say it would be way too noisy. I live in a stand alone house so the noise is not an issue for me. Personally, I think my compressor would be too noisy for the confines of an apartment.

I would go to the store that is selling the compressor and ask them to demonstrate it so you can hear how loud it is.

keveuh
09-24-2012, 03:19 AM
Yeah I thought about that, ask them to plug it to know how noisy it is, but from what you say it would be too noisy. So I'll have to go for a smaller one, do you know how much db yours make ?

stevenoble
09-24-2012, 05:02 AM
Yeah I thought about that, ask them to plug it to know how noisy it is, but from what you say it would be too noisy. So I'll have to go for a smaller one, do you know how much db yours make ?

If it helps any the one I use which I posted above is around 30db noise level, which is very quiet. In fact the air coming from the airbrush when I spray makes more noise than the actual compressor motor does. If you're worried about noise I would steer clear of those industrial/garage type compressors. My friends Father used to have one that we used to spray full size cars with and it was so noisy when running that you couldn't hear each other talking very well. Most hobby compressors are very quiet. I think the Iwata units run about 40db or less. I would just buy the best unit you can afford at the start and make sure it is all that you need, then you'll never have to get another one. A good one should last a lifetime if cared for. I bought a cheaper one when I first started for around £130 and it was rubbish. Very noisy, no power and always waiting for it to catch up. It couldn't make air faster than I was using it and had no tank. So I would start spraying my parts and then have to stop and wait for it to make more air before I could continue. It got very frustrating. I kept it for 3 months before giving it away, bit the bullet and bought my current one at £230. From day one it's been everything I wanted and has been ultra reliable. I don't know what others thoughts are on this but I would say if you want to save money, buy a cheaper brush and put the money you save into the compressor. The compressor is the most important part. You can have a Rolls Royce brush with all the bells and whistles at £250, but if your air source can't power it, it's no better than a £30 basic brush. Seriously the air source is the most important thing I believe..

keveuh
09-24-2012, 06:17 AM
Thanks again for your help Steve.

I should give up on industrial type compressors then and get a good airbrush one. Problem is I don't know what a good airbrush compressor is. Iwata makes some but they are expensive. I found this website here with a range of airbrush compressors, are they any good ?

http://shop.wiltec.info/index.php/cat/c461_Airbrush-Compressors.html

stevenoble
09-24-2012, 06:48 AM
Thanks again for your help Steve.

I should give up on industrial type compressors then and get a good airbrush one. Problem is I don't know what a good airbrush compressor is. Iwata makes some but they are expensive. I found this website here with a range of airbrush compressors, are they any good ?

http://shop.wiltec.info/index.php/cat/c461_Airbrush-Compressors.html

If the specs are good then some on that page look great. I would say that anything between 30-50db is classed as silent. Mine puts out about 20litres per minute and you never have to wait for the air to catch up, so anything that 20litre per minute or higher should fit the bill. Obviously the higher that figure the better it will perform. If they have a tank as well even better. Mines only a small tank (2 litre) but it's more than adequate.

This one looks good to me If I'm getting the specs correct as it's in another language. 45db noise is good, 30-35lpm air output, max pressure 6 bar. Auto start/stop. It's all good stuff..

http://shop.wiltec.info/product_info.php/info/p3955_Airbrush-Zweizylinderkompressor-AS196A-Lufttank---Zweistufenschalter.html/XTCsid/62485b14a3357fa30f92a4c2ad9f2aac

RonCla
09-24-2012, 07:16 AM
The compressors like mine make about 90db and are made to use with full size spray guns and the like. They are over kill for a air brush but since noise isn't an issue for me and they are a third of the price of a tiny hobby compressor in my country it made it the best choice for me.

The compressor Steve has got sounds like the cats whiskers for noise. I filled my tank up once and forgot to turn it off and was happily spraying away when it kicked in to replenish the tank. It scared the bejesus out of me.

keveuh
09-24-2012, 07:52 AM
If the specs are good then some on that page look great. I would say that anything between 30-50db is classed as silent. Mine puts out about 20litres per minute and you never have to wait for the air to catch up, so anything that 20litre per minute or higher should fit the bill. Obviously the higher that figure the better it will perform. If they have a tank as well even better. Mines only a small tank (2 litre) but it's more than adequate.

This one looks good to me If I'm getting the specs correct as it's in another language. 45db noise is good, 30-35lpm air output, max pressure 6 bar. Auto start/stop. It's all good stuff..

http://shop.wiltec.info/product_info.php/info/p3955_Airbrush-Zweizylinderkompressor-AS196A-Lufttank---Zweistufenschalter.html/XTCsid/62485b14a3357fa30f92a4c2ad9f2aac

:lol: of course you're showing me the most expensive one, but that's ok, if you say it looks good I'm ok to put the price.

RonCla I can imagine that's not great in the middle of a delicate work.

stevenoble
09-24-2012, 05:22 PM
:lol: of course you're showing me the most expensive one, but that's ok, if you say it looks good I'm ok to put the price.

RonCla I can imagine that's not great in the middle of a delicate work.

To be honest I never looked at the prices. I just went through them and checked the specs and that one seemed to fit the bill perfectly. I think you'll be off to a great start with that one and it should give you years of trouble free service :wink:

keveuh
09-25-2012, 01:29 AM
I'm at a point where I'd like to buy a cheap I guess made in China bursh and get that compressor you recommend. I just don't want to have problems with that airbrush of course.
Since I'm not interested in fine details, I just want something I can spray paint with, I would gladly use spray cans if it was suited colors for car interiors but that's not the case because for example Tamiya TS are gloss paint, I know they have a flat coat can but I don't know how well it would work.

RonCla
09-25-2012, 06:05 PM
if you go to YouTube and type in Airbrush Compressor review and Airbrush review you will come up with a lot of video of these items in operation.

its a good way to ascertain how much noise a particular type of compressor will make and see airbrushes in operation.

keveuh
09-26-2012, 01:08 AM
I had seen some videos from youtube already not a lot though.

But I'm glad because I finally a compressor with a tank for airbrush here in Finland, for 115€, it's a AS186, you might know it. So I'll get this one, now on this same website they have H&S airbrushes and only that brand or chinese cheap brushes. Problem with those H&S is that they all have small needles, like 0,2mm. they do sell bigger needles but they cost like 35€, it seems a bit pricy to me.

Another BIG question I have about airbrushing, and it's about thinning.

first, is Isopropol same as 90% alcohol ? Because here in Finland it's IMPOSSIBLE to buy 90% alcohol, I mean forbidden. And I saw for example on Hiroboy they sell Isopropol. I would gladly buy Tamiya thinner to thin their acrylics, but to clean the airbrush with that seems VERY exepensive in the long run, and even the short one.

I also wonder how to really thin paint, what kind tools or accessories should I use ? For example I have an already opened bottle of Tamiya x-18, and I have my bottle of thinner. I want to thin this 1:1. Can I just do the mix in the airbrush cup ? Or do I need a jar/bottle to thin paint ? And what tool to use to take a very precise amount of paint and/or thinner ? When I picture this in my head it's like there's gonna be a ton of wastes, either of paint and especially that expensive thinner. And as I said at the end, it might cost much more than just using spray can and hand brush.

I don't know, just wondering...

Thanks.

stevenoble
09-26-2012, 05:47 AM
I had seen some videos from youtube already not a lot though.

But I'm glad because I finally a compressor with a tank for airbrush here in Finland, for 115€, it's a AS186, you might know it. So I'll get this one, now on this same website they have H&S airbrushes and only that brand or chinese cheap brushes. Problem with those H&S is that they all have small needles, like 0,2mm. they do sell bigger needles but they cost like 35€, it seems a bit pricy to me.

Another BIG question I have about airbrushing, and it's about thinning.

first, is Isopropol same as 90% alcohol ? Because here in Finland it's IMPOSSIBLE to buy 90% alcohol, I mean forbidden. And I saw for example on Hiroboy they sell Isopropol. I would gladly buy Tamiya thinner to thin their acrylics, but to clean the airbrush with that seems VERY exepensive in the long run, and even the short one.

I also wonder how to really thin paint, what kind tools or accessories should I use ? For example I have an already opened bottle of Tamiya x-18, and I have my bottle of thinner. I want to thin this 1:1. Can I just do the mix in the airbrush cup ? Or do I need a jar/bottle to thin paint ? And what tool to use to take a very precise amount of paint and/or thinner ? When I picture this in my head it's like there's gonna be a ton of wastes, either of paint and especially that expensive thinner. And as I said at the end, it might cost much more than just using spray can and hand brush.

I don't know, just wondering...

Thanks.

Can you buy screen wash in Finland, you know the stuff you put into the washer bottle on your full size car..?? That's what I use to clean out my airbrush after Tamiya Acrylic paints have been used. Very cheap and usually quite easy to get hold of. Use the Tamiya thinner only for thinning the paints, not for cleaning, it's way too expensive for that. Regardless of what some might say I always use the same brand thinner as the paint brand. So Tamiya acrylic=Tamiya thinner, Mr Color=Mr Color thinner etc...
The key to having no waste when mixing is to only mix what you need. Don't make it up in a pot and then transfer to the airbrush, you will waste lots of paint because it will stay in the pot. Get a small pipette or an eye dropper for the thinner. Start by placing the thinner into the airbrush cup. I usually add about 20 drops. Then I use a wooden coffee stirring stick. Mix the paint well with that and then wipe it clean. Use this to transfer the paint into the airbrush cup, one drop at a time, 20 drops for 50:50 mix. Stir it into the thinner as you go and it will mix perfectly. Once done add the airbrush cup lid and you're ready to spray. With experience you'll get used to how much paint to mix to do a certain amount of parts and therefore you'll have no wasted paint at all. One more key point never put any thinned paint back to the jar, either use it or store it separately. I find it keeps better that way..

Kaj45rpm
09-26-2012, 06:30 AM
I use a small syringe for extracting paint from the Zero paint jars (and in this case straight into the paint reservoir of the airbrush). The syringes are supplied in with medicine jars for kids called 'Nurofen' here in the UK. It minimises spillage and only thing to avoid is splatter so pressing down the syringe has to be done carefully!

It has a measured ml scale on the side so it will be perfect for measuring the required mixing quantities for Zero 2K clearcoat etc.

They clean up with thinner which does not eat the plastic and can be re-used again.

Importantly! Don't let the kids use it for medicine! I keep it in the box with airbrush.

keveuh
09-26-2012, 07:25 AM
Thanks both of you. I do have small syringue but I find them not so easy to use, I shall give it another try.

That screen wash, would it be some basic window cleaner ? That looks blue ? No actually I think you talk about something else and I know what now. Yes of course here we can buy this screen wash liquid product, I just hope that it contains the same stuff as yours so it works as well.

And for lacquers then, let's say I use Tamiya TS or Mr Color lacquers jars, what to use o clean this ? Is there any "common" product that can be used, or do I have to get some kind of lacquer cleaner from a hobby store, I think Hiroboy has thhis:
http://www.hiroboy.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=48_66&products_id=1099

They say good for solvent based, and I think Tamiya TS and mr color are solvent based, right ?


Again, big thanks for everybody that helped me so far !


a little edit, I have something here from the pharmacy it's called septidim. It's for desinfecting of course, and one of its component is "alcohol denat", unfortunately I don't know how much of it contains that alcohol. And about lacquer cleaner, would acetone be something ? I have a little bottle here of nail polish cleaner, I wondered if that might work. I use it to clean thermal paste from computer CPU/GPU.
After checking a bottle of that screen car wash it says denat ethanol, isopropol and other stuff, so I guess I found my tamiya acrylic cleaner ! And since I'm at it, Zero paints are cleanable with acetone too ?

stevenoble
09-26-2012, 05:10 PM
I just buy the cheapest tin of regular cellulose thinner from the auto paint supply shop. Sometimes it's just called 'gun wash' that's what I use for flushing the airbrush out after Zero paints, Tamiya TS or Mr Color paints and it works very well. Acetone may work too, but I've never tried it..

keveuh
09-27-2012, 01:14 AM
Thanks Steve, I'll look for some cellulose/lacquer thinner around here.

I've ordered my gear now, I took a AS186 compressor with a tank and an Iwata HP CR airbrush from hiroboy. I thought the bigger needle of the Iwata would make it easier for a beginner like me. I hope I won't regret it...

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