Turbo on an LS

Okay, I have an LS in my civic. I know first off, I know I need to make it a manual tranny, thats a given. Don't ask why I have an LS auto in my car, long story. Now, my question is, I am planing to eventaully build up the engine, close the deck, etc, to handle a sh*tload of boost. My goal is 400hp. I've been researching what I need to do to get their. I know also know the LS tranny is great for Turbocharging, cuz of its longer gear ratios (I also know I'll need new axles, an LSD, etc). My question is, I was thinkin, it'd be best to keep it an LS, not an LS/Vtec, with the goals I have. I am not sure though. If I went LS/Vtec, it'd be a GSR head, and I was thinkin a Type-r tranny (has an LSD) and ecu. Or would you still keep it an LS tranny and just add the vtec ecu. I know a few places, from a few here one in cali and one in arizona, that do good LS/Vtecs. WHat are your thoughts. Keep in a regualr LS and build it up? or Build up an LS/VTec. I heard for such I high HP app, I'd be better off keepin it a regular LS.

Don't do LS VTEC. Unreliable and not worth the money it would take to do it right. Get the LS tranny, no Type R tranny, they are even worse for turbo than a GSR tranny.

with the type r tranny your gears will be sooo short cuz you can only rev to 7200. first gear would end at 25 and that would be gay

Don't do LS VTEC. Unreliable and not worth the money it would take to do it right. Get the LS tranny, no Type R tranny, they are even worse for turbo than a GSR tranny.

.with the type r tranny your gears will be sooo short cuz you can only rev to 7200. first gear would end at 25 and that would be gay

Both of you stop and I doubt either of you have EVER even seen a frankenstein, if you have it was some piece of shit some dumbass threw together in you town and had it blow up. LSvtec and CRVtec's are reliabe as hell if you build it right and not to mention can be built to destroy. And the tranny, hmmmm, do either of you even know the gear ratios, obviously not, they are the same 1st gear in ALL the hydraulic trannies 3.230, and USDM LS/GS/SE have the SAME second as the GSR, as a matter of fact the Y21/S21/S4C/S80 ALL have the same 1-4 with the 5th gear and the FD being different in the JDM ITR and 3 and 4 in the USDM GSR, and the USDM/JDM GSR and the US LS have the same 1st and 2nd, which is where your money is in a race. So next time you post shit that you have no idea about, do it in your own home and not on a public forum

Hey, thanx for the info guys. I had heard that LS/Vtecs and Type-r trannys where no good for a turbo, but that was just heresay, and no one would tell me why. and the magazines were no good either, they are all "do LS/Vtec cuz it's cool." thanx for the info, it will come to good use someday. The last thing I wanna do is build the enginewrong and get the wrong tranny for that type of app. now that I think bout what u said for the tranny, yea, your right. The LS tranny's longer gear ratios are more turbo friendly, thats why some High HP gears use LS trannys I am guessin. Again, thanx for the help, and feel free to drop any more advice if ya have any.

jcrx...since I am guessin you read my above question, can I get your opinion? You read what goals are and what I am trying to do. So, non-vtec LS or LS/Vtec? and what tranny do you like? Mind you, I'm gonna fully build whichever I choose, and pay to have it done right. It costs way more to fix it once its broke, lol. Again, any opinions and info would be great. I am lookin to learn as much as I can. Now that I know my goal, I just need to deicded on the route to get there. Thanx for the help, whoever helps out:)

Gear ratois and spool time are definitely something you want to consider, but you also have to think about your powerband on a certain engine and build as far as where it produces power. For people to say that the type R tranny and the other vtec trannies are not good for turbo is negligent. Powerband is what you need to consider when you are doing a build, not hearsay about what is good for what, based on " what I heard was" bullshit. Honestly, it is not resonable to say "this is the best for your application" till you get on a dyno and experiment. I would choose a GSR as a good middle ground to start at if I were I your shoes. There is a reason that people ( including Honda) choose the type R tranny over the LS one though for high power applications. Those long gears do sound good if you are after extended trips to the uper RPM range, but the shorter gears insure you stay in your powerband and not drop out in between shifts.

Originally posted by jcrx
but the shorter gears insure you stay in your powerband and not drop out in between shifts.

You don't know what you're talking about. The LS Tranny is better for a turbo application, as the longer gearing helps spool the turbo. He's going to keep the B18B1, he just wants to know if to do a Frankenstein or not. So he needs the LS tranny, because even with the GSR head it's not going to rev over 7500 RPM. And you're going on talking about the powerband, there is a reason honda mated the LS tranny with an LS you know. And this thing about the Type R tranny, it's good for N/A applications only. The Type R tranny with a turbocharged LS engine would suck balls. You would never be in the 'powerband'' very long with a Type R tranny. GSR tranny is closer ratio to the Type R tranny than to the LS tranny.

Thanx for the info:) Would you make it a frankinstein (LS/Vtec it) then with that tranny or leave the LS be?

Leave it an LS. Like the one guy said that I was arguing with, LS/VTEC IS reliable - but you have to pay out the ass to get it that way. It's not worth it. Get a good P/P job with a competition 5 angle valve job, maybe a cam swap thats specifically meant for a turbo application and you will make more power and probably still cost less than LS/VTEC.

Originally posted by PWMAN


You don't know what you're talking about. The LS Tranny is better for a turbo application, as the longer gearing helps spool the turbo. He's going to keep the B18B1, he just wants to know if to do a Frankenstein or not. So he needs the LS tranny, because even with the GSR head it's not going to rev over 7500 RPM. And you're going on talking about the powerband, there is a reason honda mated the LS tranny with an LS you know. And this thing about the Type R tranny, it's good for N/A applications only. The Type R tranny with a turbocharged LS engine would suck balls. You would never be in the 'powerband'' very long with a Type R tranny. GSR tranny is closer ratio to the Type R tranny than to the LS tranny.


I totally agree with you! Anways about ls v-tec yes its reliable if built right but theres a break down period. My friend called this shop which i forgot who but its a shop in cali and they're known for building ls v-tecs. Well he wanted to know how much he'll do it for and he told him the price and he explained the break down period. It means that it'll last a certain time and then you have to rebuild it again. I'm not quite sure if this is true but i dont have any doubts that it wouldn't be true. Well if i was you i'd just keep it str8 ls motor. Theres a guy around here running 12s with STOCK ls motor with upgraded fuel and i think he has a f-max turbo kit on there. I believe hes running 12 lbs of boost which is pretty damn good for a stock motor. So get the ls trans along with light fly wheel to cause less turbo lag , upgraded clutch, LSD would be nice of course!:)

thanx for the info mellowboy:)

Also if you get a lsd try to keep your final drive gear, If t=you install the type r final drive with the lsd then you will have screwed up your gear ratios try to keep the 4.266.

what LSD brands, etc, do you recommend. It sounds like I'll end up going with an LS tranny from what I am hearing. and also from what I am hereing here, I think it would be smart of me to keep the LS non-vtec, and not do the LS/Vtec. What LSD's are good? Adding an LSD to the LS tranny wont mess with the gear/final drive ratio's, will it?

No it doesn't change anything about the gearing. Quaife have the best LSD's. I think thats how you spell it - quiafe.???

Good lsd's are Kaaz, Quife and Cusco.

I was just saying to try to keep your final gear b/c some ppl likr to buy a type r lsd and sometimes you get th efinal gear with it and I was saying to just use yours and not the type r. Unlesss you want to but the ls final gear is much better for turbo apps.

Again, thatnks for the info ppl:biggrin: I think I'll stay away from the Type-r lsd then, unless its better. It sounds like it wouldn't be any workse to get one of theother brands u all listed, cusco, kaaz, quife, than a type-r...and that would insure my final drive isnt messed with.

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
Okay, I have an LS in my civic. I know first off, I know I need to make it a manual tranny, thats a given. Don't ask why I have an LS auto in my car, long story. Now, my question is, I am planing to eventaully build up the engine, close the deck, etc, to handle a sh*tload of boost. My goal is 400hp. I've been researching what I need to do to get their. I know also know the LS tranny is great for Turbocharging, cuz of its longer gear ratios (I also know I'll need new axles, an LSD, etc). My question is, I was thinkin, it'd be best to keep it an LS, not an LS/Vtec, with the goals I have. I am not sure though. If I went LS/Vtec, it'd be a GSR head, and I was thinkin a Type-r tranny (has an LSD) and ecu. Or would you still keep it an LS tranny and just add the vtec ecu. I know a few places, from a few here one in cali and one in arizona, that do good LS/Vtecs. WHat are your thoughts. Keep in a regualr LS and build it up? or Build up an LS/VTec. I heard for such I high HP app, I'd be better off keepin it a regular LS.

gsr head...? EW

where are you getting info from? lsvtec turbo puts out more than built ls turbo unless you run an equally agressive cam as one thats on a high high power lsv . but even then, you would have to find a cam that would be a serious beast and then you would kill the car as a street driver. i seriously doubt you'll ever reach the kind of horsepower your expecting with an ls-t. 400 to the wheels without a good flowing b16 head is tough but not impossible :). i know from experience.you have to know your way around that engine pretty well to get the power you want.

goodluck man, youve got a shitload of work ahead of you.
im getting ready to retire my fast car from the streets. a severly reworked ctr head is going on along with a new turbo manifold, some "top secret tricks" lol and a rebuilt cable ys1. im shooting for high 500 horses to the wheels with either the new 1300cc or 1100cc injectors.
im also finally going to put together the fiberglass hatch hinges so that i can put that on. and dont worry....i will post pics as soon as i pay off my best buy card and get my new camera.

quaife LSD are the best I heard...and they are less expensive than cusco and Kaaz.....People don't underestimate the LS engine. It's pretty dam good engine.....and is arguably the strongest Torque B series engine you can get. It is perfect for turbo applications....you really don't need 500 HP on an integra to smoke people......255 WHP can get you 13.3 in a quarter mile...How much dam power you want? WRX's, evo's, corvettes, camaros, mustangs run about 13.3-13.5...so what more do you want? a 10 second street car is NOT going to be street legal and most likely will be uncomfortable to drive...Do you know what kind of clutch you would have to get to support 500 HP???? You'd better make sure that whoever is in front of you is out of the way..because engagement will be dam harsh! As soon as you let up it's going to engage and take off.....not to mention its going to be harder to press the clutch in....is 450-500 hp needed? I see alot of people talking about building 9, 10 second street cars......I don't think so...not legally.

Originally posted by super_man_3179
a 10 second street car is NOT going to be street legal and most likely will be uncomfortable to drive...Do you know what kind of clutch you would have to get to support 500 HP???? You'd better make sure that whoever is in front of you is out of the way..because engagement will be dam harsh! As soon as you let up it's going to engage and take off.....not to mention its going to be harder to press the clutch in....is 450-500 hp needed? I see alot of people talking about building 9, 10 second street cars......I don't think so...not legally.

umm....my 10 second slip was in street legal form and before this month (retired the car from the street) i drove it on the weekends in good weather. my car has a stage 5 four puck clutch from clutchmasters with a solid springless hub which means feathering is alliminated. driving the car was not THAT hard. pushing in the clutch is not much tougher than a cm stage 2-4 clutch.

Can I ask why you like the B16 head better? Superior Racing Development in Arizona (they have done over 15 tech articles in magazines in the past 2 years) told me that the GSR head is better suited for turbocharger due to the shape of cumbustion chambers on the head. They said the B16A head wasn't bad, just that the GSR head would be better for a LS/Vtec turbo. I'm not argueing, only tellin you where I heard it:wink: Also, I do know someone in cali with a 500hp ls/vtec-turbo, thing halls ass, lol. I had also heard, however, that it's better to turbocharger an LS, and not an LS/Vtec..so it all contridictong each other...hence my confusion over what to do, lol. I have that power goal. I am willing to go what route I need to attain it, and wait until I can afford to go a certain route if I have too. My goal is the power level, not doing it a certain way, so like I said in an earlier post, any input helps:D The more in depth the reasons the better too:D

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
Can I ask why you like the B16 head better? Superior Racing Development in Arizona (they have done over 15 tech articles in magazines in the past 2 years) told me that the GSR head is better suited for turbocharger due to the shape of cumbustion chambers on the head.


They said the B16A head wasn't bad, just that the GSR head would be better for a LS/Vtec turbo. I'm not argueing, only tellin you where I heard it:wink:
that is a stock head.

Also, I do know someone in cali with a 500hp ls/vtec-turbo, thing halls ass, lol.
hahaha......yeh...they do

I had also heard, however, that it's better to turbocharger an LS, and not an LS/Vtec..
if you want better reliablity and less headaches....lsturbo. if you want crazy power lsvt

...hence my confusion over what to do, lol. I have that power goal. I am willing to go what route I need to attain it, and wait until I can afford to go a certain route if I have too. My goal is the power level, not doing it a certain way, so like I said in an earlier post, any input helps:D The more in depth the reasons the better too:D
dope

Originally posted by super_man_3179
quaife LSD are the best I heard...and they are less expensive than cusco and Kaaz

Kaaz should be cheaper from the 2.

the LS VTEC swap is a great way to utilize a b18b, an with a turbo this motor is unstopable. There are only a few problems your going to face if not reinforceing internals. Ok first look at the rod to stroke ratio, rod to stroke ratio is the ratio of the length of the connecting rod to the length of the piston stroke, or the distance the piston travels from the top to the bottom of its stroke. A low rod to stroke ratio means the rod will be closer to a horizontal angle on its upstroke. This means that more of its force will be pushing the piston horizontally, rather than vertically. Meaning two things for your engine. First of all there will be more stress on the sides and in the center of the rod, rather than on its ends, leaving the rod more vulnerable to breaking. Second of all there will be more stress on your cylinder walls. The rod is pushing the piston at a more horizontal angle right into your cylinder walls, rather than up and through them. The risk here is putting that piston right through the cylinder wall. Or the cylinder wall will actually flex under the pressure, causing the shape to turn from a circle to an oval shape. This causes the loss of the seal created by the piston rings. A small amount of oil could slip past into the combustion chamber. Bad things happen from here. The oil gets combusted, leaving nasty carbon deposits in your combustion chamber and exhaust ports. which is a bad thing for flow or valve sealing. But if the swap is done right with replaced and stroger internals you should have no problems.

hybridsol, what should I look for to make sure the swap is done right? there is one place locally that seems to know what they are doing talking to them, and Superior Racing development (they do a lot of work with Hasport) in Arizona seems to know there stuff too. But like you said, I want to make sure it is done right. I am not looking to do things wrong, and have bad things happen and ruin the engine. Secondly, what types of internal strenghtaning do you recommend. Is there anything to do about the little rod ratio problem? or is that what the strenghting of the internals helps with? I was thinking closeing the deck for sure...that open deck design of honda's seems vurnable to puressure, stress and boost, so thats a must do. But whar else...I know I need "stronger rods and bearing" since the LS has kinda weak rods and bearings (so to speak), and probably at this point new pistons to, along with new vavles, retainers, springs, etc. Some porting and polishing of the head, and I figure at least a 3 angle vavle job would be smart (or do you suggest something else?) Would knew cams be smart too? what else do you suggest? Also, I fought what its called, but there is this thing JG eninge dynamics and Dan Pormero (I spelled it wrong, I know) racing do to the head that improves the flow...it's not porting and polishing, they are doing soemething to the shape of the head..I have a book on it, but can't remember for the life of me what it is...they usually do that on high output engines. There is like milling, filling, welding, graiding, smoothing out..I know this is no help, lol. I'll post it when I remember what its called, lol. I am willing to save-up money to do everything that needs to be done to make this work and do it right, versus half-assing it and killing my engine. Is there anything you'd change that I mentioned? Or are there things I missed? I want to do the engine work right, and all at once, so any help you could give is appriacted. Also, for turbo apps..Do you like GSR heads or B16 heads? I know SRD and others I have talked to say the GSR head is better to start with if I am gonna turbo the LS/Vtec? What are your thoughts? Thanx for the help:bigthumb:

:iamwithst


I cant really figure out what you're asking... Maybe because its 1:24am for me... but I havent a clue what you just asked...

I'll take a guess... as to say you're thinking of having your head milled for a bit more compression? :confused:

:dunno:


Ok wasting more internet here....







and here.......





And more here.

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
hybridsol, what should I look for to make sure the swap is done right? there is one place locally that seems to know what they are doing talking to them, and Superior Racing development (they do a lot of work with Hasport) in Arizona seems to know there stuff too. But like you said, I want to make sure it is done right. I am not looking to do things wrong, and have bad things happen and ruin the engine. Secondly, what types of internal strenghtaning do you recommend. Is there anything to do about the little rod ratio problem? or is that what the strenghting of the internals helps with? I was thinking closeing the deck for sure...that open deck design of honda's seems vurnable to puressure, stress and boost, so thats a must do. But whar else...I know I need "stronger rods and bearing" since the LS has kinda weak rods and bearings (so to speak), and probably at this point new pistons to, along with new vavles, retainers, springs, etc. Some porting and polishing of the head, and I figure at least a 3 angle vavle job would be smart (or do you suggest something else?) Would knew cams be smart too? what else do you suggest? Also, I fought what its called, but there is this thing JG eninge dynamics and Dan Pormero (I spelled it wrong, I know) racing do to the head that improves the flow...it's not porting and polishing, they are doing soemething to the shape of the head..I have a book on it, but can't remember for the life of me what it is...they usually do that on high output engines. There is like milling, filling, welding, graiding, smoothing out..I know this is no help, lol. I'll post it when I remember what its called, lol. I am willing to save-up money to do everything that needs to be done to make this work and do it right, versus half-assing it and killing my engine. Is there anything you'd change that I mentioned? Or are there things I missed? I want to do the engine work right, and all at once, so any help you could give is appriacted. Also, for turbo apps..Do you like GSR heads or B16 heads? I know SRD and others I have talked to say the GSR head is better to start with if I am gonna turbo the LS/Vtec? What are your thoughts? Thanx for the help:bigthumb:
I'm not farmiliar with your area, so I guess just ask around. You are correct in assuming that strengthening your internals will improve your situation, in regards to the rod/stroke ratio. The engine needs to be rebuilt with new internals (sleeve's), bearings, seals, oil pump, etc. (what you mentioned). When rebuilding an LS bottom end, I recommend either shimming the oil pump for more pressure or using a b18c or b16a oil pump. To add the VTEC cylinder head to the b18b bottom end, you have to tap and plug to the VTEC oil supply hole found on the bottom left side of the head. A 1/8 inch pipe plug should work for this. Then run an oil supply line from a Tfitting placed on the oil pressure sending unit on the block to the VTEC oil galley plug found on the intake side of the head near the distributor. To make the oil line, you need a piece of -4 braided steel line around 20 inchs long, with two female A/N fittings attached, a 3/8 inch NPT to -4A/N adapter for the head, a 1/8 inch NPT to -4 A/N adapter and a 1/8-inch NPT Tfitting with two female sides and one male side. Also open up the dowel pin holes on the VTEC cylinder head to 9/16 inch b/c the b18b block has larger dowel pins to locate the head on the block. It is also critical to hook up the knock sensor, or the VTEC function will be crap. The engine's ECU looks for the knock sensor signal in order to activate VTEC. The B18B block has no provision for a knock sensor. If you don't want to run a knock sensor, you can do the following things. You can have a knock sensor not attached but grounded to the chassis and connected to your ECU, or Hasport I believe carries ECUs that are reprogrammed to allow VTEC operation with no knock sensor input. An LS head gasket is used with the appropriate VTEC ECU for your year and chassis of vehicle. A jumper wire running from the appropriate pin in the ECU to the VTEC control solenoid completes the activation of VTEC. But since your getting this done at a shop consider this a list of things to look for, if you suspect the shop screwed something up. (Shops are risky buisness) I recommend doing the swap yourself only then can you ensure perfection. As for the head a GSR head will give you a higher compression than the other b-series heads because of its 41.6cc combustion chamber. The smaller combustion chamber makes .2 more compression. Then you have the b16a head, the b16a head is a better flowing head 5.25% in fact and with a larger combustion chamber 42.7cc's. So for turbo aplication take a wild guess which head you should use. Then again I like the b18c head. I hope I helped out, if I missed anything feel free to comment. I wish you the best of luck. :smile:

Originally posted by hybridsol

I'm not farmiliar with your area, so I guess just ask around. You are correct in assuming that strengthening your internals will improve your situation, in regards to the rod/stroke ratio. The engine needs to be rebuilt with new internals (sleeve's), bearings, seals, oil pump, etc. (what you mentioned). When rebuilding an LS bottom end, I recommend either shimming the oil pump for more pressure or using a b18c or b16a oil pump. To add the VTEC cylinder head to the b18b bottom end, you have to tap and plug to the VTEC oil supply hole found on the bottom left side of the head. A 1/8 inch pipe plug should work for this. Then run an oil supply line from a Tfitting placed on the oil pressure sending unit on the block to the VTEC oil galley plug found on the intake side of the head near the distributor. To make the oil line, you need a piece of -4 braided steel line around 20 inchs long, with two female A/N fittings attached, a 3/8 inch NPT to -4A/N adapter for the head, a 1/8 inch NPT to -4 A/N adapter and a 1/8-inch NPT Tfitting with two female sides and one male side. Also open up the dowel pin holes on the VTEC cylinder head to 9/16 inch b/c the b18b block has larger dowel pins to locate the head on the block. It is also critical to hook up the knock sensor, or the VTEC function will be crap. The engine's ECU looks for the knock sensor signal in order to activate VTEC. The B18B block has no provision for a knock sensor. If you don't want to run a knock sensor, you can do the following things. You can have a knock sensor not attached but grounded to the chassis and connected to your ECU, or Hasport I believe carries ECUs that are reprogrammed to allow VTEC operation with no knock sensor input. An LS head gasket is used with the appropriate VTEC ECU for your year and chassis of vehicle. A jumper wire running from the appropriate pin in the ECU to the VTEC control solenoid completes the activation of VTEC. But since your getting this done at a shop consider this a list of things to look for, if you suspect the shop screwed something up. (Shops are risky buisness) I recommend doing the swap yourself only then can you ensure perfection. As for the head a GSR head will give you a higher compression than the other b-series heads because of its 41.6cc combustion chamber. The smaller combustion chamber makes .2 more compression. Then you have the b16a head, the b16a head is a better flowing head 5.25% in fact and with a larger combustion chamber 42.7cc's. So for turbo aplication take a wild guess which head you should use. Then again I like the b18c head. I hope I helped out, if I missed anything feel free to comment. I wish you the best of luck. :smile:


:eek: That is alot of very helpful info hybridsol.
Is the only difference in the gsr head and the Ls head the vtec oil passage and the smaller dowel pins on the gsr head, that is for bolting up ofcourse, lol I know the other differences lol. But is that the only thing that is different for the block to head fit? What is the pesky oil leak that alot of ppl talk about? Is it the oil line to activate vtec? I am very interested in possibly doing the swap then if that is all the work you have to do to the head, b/c I was under the impression that you had to have some machine shop work done to the head for it to fit, but maybe it was just the two things above that everyone was talking about having a machine shop do.

Originally posted by hybridsol

To add the VTEC cylinder head to the b18b bottom end, you have to tap and plug to the VTEC oil supply hole found on the bottom left side of the head.
if you recomend new pistons....he doesnt need that oil with forged pistons...just weighs it down and the pressure can be used other places

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)

if you recomend new pistons....he doesnt need that oil with forged pistons...just weighs it down and the pressure can be used other places

??? Ummmm What?? Sorry but I am confused, what would it matter if you have forged or cast pistons as far as oil is conserned? And what oil are you talking about, he was saing to plug the hole in the head that supplies the vtec solenoid b/c the b18b bottom end does not have a passage there and there will be a leak. I am not flaming you in any way I am just confused as to what you are talking about.

Originally posted by whtteg


??? Ummmm What?? Sorry but I am confused, what would it matter if you have forged or cast pistons as far as oil is conserned? And what oil are you talking about, he was saing to plug the hole in the head that supplies the vtec solenoid b/c the b18b bottom end does not have a passage there and there will be a leak. I am not flaming you in any way I am just confused as to what you are talking about.

nm...i read that completly wrong i think. shit im drunk and have no clue what the fugc im responding to...ill respond laterr.

Thanx for the help hybridsol, whtteg, and everyone else:bigthumb: . I am curious though, what is that pesky oil leak that whtteg said he heard a lot of ppl talk about? Also, I heard somewhere (not sure where) that LS/Vtec's have a shorter engine life before it's time for a re-build. Is this true? Or is this untrue, more of a consiquence of a bad and incorrect LS/Vtec build? Thanx:smile:

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
Also, I heard somewhere (not sure where) that LS/Vtec's have a shorter engine life before it's time for a re-build. Is this true? Or is this untrue, more of a consiquence of a bad and incorrect LS/Vtec build? Thanx:smile:
yeh 9 times out of 10

Yea I think it is just ppl who cut corners and don't do everything right that causes it to have a shorter lifespan. But it is a honda system and if well maintaned it will last long enough, i would say that if the swap was done right and had all new internals then it could easily see 150K miles, but I don't know for sure that is just an educated guess, you have to understand that to make good hp that engine life will almost always be shortened. And I have a feeling that the oil leak problem is probably just the oil line for the vtec solenoid or someone not cleanning the head surface and the block surface properly and also you have to torque the head bolts in the exact order that the manual states or the head gasket will not seal right in the long run, that could also be the reason for the oil leak. If nobody else answers the questio before i find out the info then I will post it here or pm it to you.:bigthumb:

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)

yeh 9 times out of 10

Do you mean 9 times outta 10 it's cuz of a carless and bad build that causes the shortened life?

Also, Thanks again for the info Whtteg:D

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx


Do you mean 9 times outta 10 it's cuz of a carless and bad build that causes the shortened life?


a) honda doesnt make the engines like this. the designers at honda are brilliant motor builders... chances are..you arent.
b) if your building a high horsepower motor....the life of the car is shortened. thats a gimmie.

I know a high horsepower motor under heavy boost will have a shorter life, I am asking about the LS/VTec part, no boost, as for shortened life. And besides, I am not gonna do anything myself I can't handle...if I have to, I'll go down to LA or Arizona and have someone life SRD, Holeshot Racing, or JG engine Dymanics build it. I wanna make sure I know whats what and all that jazz beofre I start or pay someone. So I am trying to "Do my Homework" now, before I even start.

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
I know a high horsepower motor under heavy boost will have a shorter life, I am asking about the LS/VTec part, no boost, as for shortened life. And besides, I am not gonna do anything myself I can't handle...if I have to, I'll go down to LA or Arizona and have someone life SRD, Holeshot Racing, or JG engine Dymanics build it. I wanna make sure I know whats what and all that jazz beofre I start or pay someone. So I am trying to "Do my Homework" now, before I even start.
after you've got enough info on building a great lsvtec you should be able to build it yourself. thats my rule of thumb.

eckoman_pdx, check this kink out it should answer some questions and let you see some of the things we have been talking about.

b20vtec (http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/b20vtec/b20vtec.php)

Like I said, I won't do anything myself I can't handle. I would like to gather the info and do it myself, the other was a back-up plan, a what-if. I said I would go there if I HAD to, but my plan is to learn what I can..and eventually do it myself, as long as I can handle it and do it right. I won't allow myself to get half-way in and be like...oh sh*t, what do I do. Thats when the costs really start to build.

Hey, thanx for the site whtteg, that helps. Also, I found an Article in HOnda Tuning on doing an LS/Vtec. SRD in Arizona (ppl I have talked to before, actually) are the ones how did the swap for the tech prodedor. It's in the May 2003 issue I belive. That and the site help, they give me an idea w/ photo's bout what everyone is saying.

Originally posted by whtteg



:eek: That is alot of very helpful info hybridsol.
Is the only difference in the gsr head and the Ls head the vtec oil passage and the smaller dowel pins on the gsr head, that is for bolting up ofcourse, lol I know the other differences lol. But is that the only thing that is different for the block to head fit? What is the pesky oil leak that alot of ppl talk about? Is it the oil line to activate vtec? I am very interested in possibly doing the swap then if that is all the work you have to do to the head, b/c I was under the impression that you had to have some machine shop work done to the head for it to fit, but maybe it was just the two things above that everyone was talking about having a machine shop do.
I'm guessing the oil leak has something to do with what hybrid said about the cylinder turning into an oval and screwing the seals. I'm pretty shure that everything is up there, only block work is required. (the combustion chambers are different sizes thats about all.)

eckoman_pdx,
Check this out before you think about JG engines and their work.
JG experience (http://www.myjgengine.com/)

Originally posted by whtteg
eckoman_pdx,
Check this out before you think about JG engines and their work.
JG experience (http://www.myjgengine.com/)
:eek2: wow......I'm gladhe won the court case, I had heard nothing but good things from JG before you posted that.

Holy geez...man, that was freaky the guy had to go through all that. I know that some will say this is just "one bad experince" and that they have built many good engines. But the bodyshop that fixed my car wrong after a rear-end accident was given 4 chances to fix it, after which it was to court to get the money to fix it right. So I can relate. Thanks for the 411. After reading that, I don't think it's worth the risk, even if they normally built good engines. That orderal reminds me of what I had to go through with the body shop. With so many capible people out there, why go to someone who was caught red-handed cutting corners, you know? It seems better to go elsewhere, (or do it yourself if you know how, which I'd have to learn:biggrin: )

Originally posted by whtteg
eckoman_pdx,
Check this out before you think about JG engines and their work.
JG experience (http://www.myjgengine.com/)


Damn thats messed up. Oh well i'd still buy there products though.

wow that sux about JG, i always thought they were a good company, guess you still gotta ask around even about the big boy's out there.

Originally posted by crxlvr
wow that sux about JG, i always thought they were a good company, guess you still gotta ask around even about the big boy's out there.

IMO alot of companies are spending too much time and money on advertising and not enough on quaility control and a good product. Examples are APC, Ractive etc. It is soo sad that it is this way though:shakehead

personnaly i think doing an ls/vtec is better. thats what im doing right now. im using a gsr head and an ls block. what im going to do is get JE pistons and eagle rods with apr bolts. im thinking the crank will be ok. whoever said that this motor will rev only to 7200rpms is a dumbass. it will rev to 8000rpms easily. if u start revving it past 8thou and driving it hard evryday then ur motor will blow. thats what motor do. anyway just yesterday i decided to build it so i can turbo charge it as soon as i get it running.(im done with the head) so as soon as im done ill break it in and take it to the track and tell you guys the time. eckoman_pdx this was my suggestion, if u are going to change most of the internals anyway, go ls/vtec. but dont torture the engine. then it will last. do it only when u need to:) hit me up for more info i got plenty cuz i already started this project. im planing to drop this motor into a hatch. so if anyone knows someone with a good deal on a hatch let me know (im looking for a 92 to 2000 hatch, 92 to 95 i want it to be an si)

alexander_2259@hotmail.com


My bro has a 94 gsr with simple mods like cold air intake, dc sport catback exhaust, 9mm wires, downpipe, and a mugen ecu. its a four door and he runs low 14s. ill post some slips later and some pix.

Originally posted by ~ls/vtec~


......My bro has a 94 gsr with simple mods like cold air intake, dc sport catback exhaust, 9mm wires, downpipe, and a mugen ecu. its a four door and he runs low 14s. ill post some slips later and some pix.

downpipe? is it turbo? b/c a turbo gsr should be deep into the 13's.

Originally posted by ~ls/vtec~



My bro has a 94 gsr with simple mods like cold air intake, dc sport catback exhaust, 9mm wires, downpipe, and a mugen ecu. its a four door and he runs low 14s. ill post some slips later and some pix.


Please dont tell me its all motor sayin you run low 14s with just those mods?

Originally posted by mellowboy



Please dont tell me its all motor sayin you run low 14s with just those mods?

yea no chance bro.

ill post some slips later. ill even get u a video on here

did you mean test pipe. was her on slicks?

did you mean test pipe. was her on slicks? does it have full interior?

he ran on 17 inch kuhmos(712's) z rated. he had nothing in the trunk (no spare, etc) no back seat. when i said downpipe i meant no catalyc converter. by the way the mugen ecu helps a lot. the redline is at 9800rms. of corse im not stupid enough to run it that high. anyway he runs it to like 8500rpms. he always stays in vtec range after 1st. o yeah like 3 days before he went to the track i changed his clutch too.


to get back on subject i found a shop that will bore my engine for 150 bucks. i dont know how much should i bore it down. the stock swize of the cylinder is like 81mm. i want to bore it down like to 83mm, then buy some pistons for this size. eckoman_pdx i know where you can get a gsr head for like 400 bucks.

Originally posted by ~ls/vtec~
the redline is at 9800rms.

o yeah like 3 days before he went to the track i changed his clutch too.

to get back on subject i found a shop that will bore my engine for 150 bucks

i want to bore it down like to 83mm, then buy some pistons for this size.

:rofl:

:thefinger haters

anyway.....back on topic, what did you decide to go with head wise eckoman_pdx? Sorry I've been busy the past week and haven't had a chance to answer questions, although it seems my asistance was not needed. Still I am very curious to what you decided, and I wish you the best of luck. (Keep us posted)