Hydraulic lifter noise and oil brand

I have a 2002 Blazer that has been abused with regards to oil changes. From 90K to 180K miles there were 3 oil changes. The interval up to 90K miles averaged 10K miles. The oil has always been Penzoil PYB and the filter has always been the Jiffy Lube generic. The engine runs good with original gas mileage and now consumes one quart every 10K miles. It does idle a little rougher than when it was new.

At 180K miles the engine developed a wicked lifter noise. I decided to take a conservative approach on the lifter noise and avoid solvents or additives. I did an oil change sticking with Penzoil and used a high quality K & N filter. After a few days the lifter noise became intermittent and quieter. At around 500 miles it went away completely and has been gone for about 4K miles now. I take away the following:

Penzoil PYB is excellent oil.

Oil filter quality may not be that important.

Even though I do not advocate 30K mile oil change intervals, there appears to be an opportunity in some applications for intervals longer than 3K miles. I have used 60 gallons less oil so far.

A conservative approach to lifter noise may be a good first step.

Additives for some successful lifter noise reduction may just be the result of the oil change.

George

I have a 2002 Blazer that has been abused with regards to oil changes. From 90K to 180K miles there were 3 oil changes. The interval up to 90K miles averaged 10K miles. The oil has always been Penzoil PYB and the filter has always been the Jiffy Lube generic. The engine runs good with original gas mileage and now consumes one quart every 10K miles. It does idle a little rougher than when it was new.

At 180K miles the engine developed a wicked lifter noise. I decided to take a conservative approach on the lifter noise and avoid solvents or additives. I did an oil change sticking with Penzoil and used a high quality K & N filter. After a few days the lifter noise became intermittent and quieter. At around 500 miles it went away completely and has been gone for about 4K miles now. I take away the following:

Penzoil PYB is excellent oil.

Oil filter quality may not be that important.

Even though I do not advocate 30K mile oil change intervals, there appears to be an opportunity in some applications for intervals longer than 3K miles. I have used 60 gallons less oil so far.

A conservative approach to lifter noise may be a good first step.

Additives for some successful lifter noise reduction may just be the result of the oil change.

George

We hope you enjoyed damaging your engine by saving a few bucks.:sarcasmsign:

People that do things like that should not be allowed to own cars.

Many people and manf recommends going 5K on good regular oil and filter changes and longer with synthetic oil.

But you pushed it way to far.

In the technical realm devices are frequently stressed or pushed to the point of failure because valuable information is obtained from this end point data. I said in my original post that I do not recomend this oil change behavior and other owners have the option of not recreating this experiment, but I find it interesting that given the data, this engine has only seen one minor issue and has so far given 184K miles of service life. Additionally, most of the posts that I read regarding lifter noise noted the onset at significantly lower mileage levels.

I have owned around 30 vehicles in my lifetime (US, Japanese, and German - low end to high end) and this one has given me the most trouble free operation. My point is that despite the huge departure from accepted oil change behavior, I am getting excellent trouble free operation (no evidence of significant damage) and still ticking at 184K miles which qualifies as excellent service life whose limit has not yet been determined. The average mileage limit in the US is 145K miles as reported by the US DOT. Many of those 30 vehicles of mine had 3K mile oil change intervals and gave me much more trouble. One bent a pushrod and broke the rocker arm at around 50K miles with oil change intervals as required by the manufacturer.

This provides some interesting data regarding service life of my oil choice and generic oil filters which I wanted to share in addition to my lifter noise experience.

My strategy was not based on economics but there are economic implications to consider.

Of course I pushed it but that is my point. Too far? I have exceeded the average mileage limit with a vehicle that runs great, and we don't know the failure point yet. Fortunately we live in a country where your opinion of my suitability for vehicle ownership is still allowed, and I am allowed to determine my vehicle strategy for personal use. Looks like we are all good.

Lastly, your technical perspective has always been appreciated.

George

since your from florida what do you know about lifter noise ?

you live up north in the rust belt/snow country then you will understand oil changes /acid/ sludge / and the importance of using high quality tested oil filters.along with regular oil changes or you will pay!

you have no hills /snow /extreme cold or extreme heat. engine wear is not that much of an issue.

just don't use the florida water in the coolant system is all that you have to worry about.

I have only owned 4 vehicles since 1967 . this is my experience from the rust belt .

if I owned 30 vehicles since 1967 I wouldn't bother doing much maintenece as you suggest.

I am originally from Chicago so I have some experience with extereme weather including the 100 year blizzard of 1977 and of course, the harder the service enviornment, the more crucial the maintainance. Cold starts, frequent starts, stop and go, dusty conditions, etc. Sure if I tried this in those conditions, the results would most likely be worse. People still have to assess their application, maintainance philosophy, warranty implications, etc. Again, I believe that there are some universal take aways from this information such as that Penzoil PYB appears to be top notch oil as my research indicated many years ago when I chose it.

The example of a collapsed lifter leading to a bent push rod and broken rocker arm happened in florida after 50K miles in Chicago. I have had around 6 vehicles with lifter problems. Many of my starter vehicles and those of my family were junkers.

My vehicles cover essentially the same interval as you across a family of 5 with many of them over 100K miles. Almost all of them received mnfg recommended maintainance intervals, top notch oil, filters, brake components, steering components, etc. except my early junkers but remarkably this vehicle is among the most trouble free.

I agree on the water quality and Florida is very challenged in that area. My bigger lesson in this area is to address any cooling problems based on Dexacool to keep the air out of the system to avoid the resultant sludge.

The information obtained here was due to serious health problems within the family (cancer, relapses, two different states, multiple surgeries) which requred all of my personal energy and time while still driving 35K miles a year. I had to make decisions on what would not get attention during this period and my wife and her health took priority while we searched for doctors, went through multiple surgeries, etc. While some may believe that I do not deserve to own a truck because of a 30K mile oil change interval, I hope that I proved that I deserve to be a husband because my wife is more important than my truck. I am actually quite strict about maintainance typically as I am an engineer. Things are back on track and these items are again getting proper attention since everybody is back to being healthy for now. In the meantime I was reflecting on the fact that there may be something to learn from the abuse my truck took during this horrible period in my families life and presented it without the drama but it appears that some may not take the information at face value unless we get through why my poor truck was so abused by an owner that does not deserve the right to own it. So far it does not seem to mind as its running great and we are approaching 200K miles which will arrive in short order given my activity level.

with the three vehicles I have owned the oil used back from 1967 to 2000 was pensoil/castrol 10-30wt with ac delco oil filters. never had any engine failures , not even leaks. regular dino oil replaced at the 3500mi of useage. with these vehicles well over 100,ooomiles the most they used was 1/2 qt between changes. no engine noises . pcv was replaced ever 20,ooo mi or so.

with the number 4 vehicle I now own I use mobil 1 synthetic with pure one oil filters. I replace the oil filter at 4000mi and go 8000mi between oil changes . now with the 138,000 mi on the 2000 5.3L silverado all is still good.

weather up here is not good for regular dino engine oil. synthetic is far better than anything back 40 yrs ago . I change the oil at the 8,ooomi and it still looks good.

I learned that the water in florida eats at the aluminum really quick. best use only distilled water with dexcool or any other coolant.

I understand that some areas have salts in the water.

sorry about those health issues . some people do take care of their stuff better than their own bodies.

I can remember one guy I know that had lifter problems all the time. he never drove the vehicle with a steady foot on the throttle.

If I lived up north I would probably have switched to full synthetic as well given the lower viscosity at cold start up where the most internal wear is produced.

No doubt, proper maintenance is the best approach but there are no guarantees. My wife takes better care of her self than anyone I know (exercise, diet, no vices, etc.) and she got cancer at 43. That's why they call it a "normal" distribution. The extremes can be baffling.

If I lived up north I would probably have switched to full synthetic as well given the lower viscosity at cold start up where the most internal wear is produced.

No doubt, proper maintenance is the best approach but there are no guarantees. My wife takes better care of her self than anyone I know (exercise, diet, no vices, etc.) and she got cancer at 43. That's why they call it a "normal" distribution. The extremes can be baffling.


the first 10,ooomi on the 2000 silverado I used 5-30wt castrol dino oil. at this mileage I felt the engine was fully broken in. Then I switched to mobil synthetic 5-30wt with the first cold temps like 5-10deg f engine started and made no weird noises , just like a warm day.

then I replaced the transmission fluid to mobil synthetic . with the cold temps on first starting out no delay in engagement. then at hywy speed downshift/upshift on increasing the throttle was much faster.

the OEM dexron III was not working good with this transmission. synthetic made the transmission work perfectly.

as a bonus I gained 1.5MPG.

as time passes more young people are getting cancer and other illnesses that , once only much older persons had to deal with.

you have to take advantage of what time you have . tomorrow could be your last. scarry when you work with lots of people that suddenly are gone the next day.

Interesting point on the transmission. Are there problems with getting enough of the original fluid out of the entire system to make a complete enough conversion to synthetic?

Your right about make the best of each day. Our circle of friends and relatives are starting to drop as we approach or are in our 50's. A lot of toxic stuff has been introduced into our enviornment in the last 60 years.

I just replaced the fluid with a simple pan drop . with the pan having a drain plug the removal of the pan is not too messy. since the vehicle was 1 yr old the fluid was still in good shape. the synthetic however even with the 5 qts I changed out made a big difference . then at 20,ooomi on the fluid I replaced again.

rather than flush , fluid exchange is the best way to replace old damaged fluid. at the cooler line on radiator as the old fluid comes out you add new fluid.

flushing usually means pressure forcing to replace fluid in side the transmission/converter. this is not recommended on these type tranny's. clutch material starts migrating.

on some vehicles like some toyota models the flushing is an approved factory method. they however on these models have no clutch materials.

My jimmy has 195,500 miles on it and for the last 5 years I have been using the cheap Wal-Mart 5w-30 oil in the blue bottle. I have no problem with it as I change my oil regularly (every 3,000+/- miles). I see no need to spend the extra money for synthetic oil. I usually use a fram oil filter as I like the one with the black grip on the end of it, but I have also used the cheap Wal-Mart one many times when they were out of the Fram filter. It's your money, spend it how you wish, but I have had zero problem related to using cheaper oil & filters.

My jimmy has 195,500 miles on it and for the last 5 years I have been using the cheap Wal-Mart 5w-30 oil in the blue bottle. I have no problem with it as I change my oil regularly (every 3,000+/- miles). I see no need to spend the extra money for synthetic oil. I usually use a fram oil filter as I like the one with the black grip on the end of it, but I have also used the cheap Wal-Mart one many times when they were out of the Fram filter. It's your money, spend it how you wish, but I have had zero problem related to using cheaper oil & filters.


I replace the synthetic oil every 8,ooomi use 2 oil filters. replace filters at 4,ooomi . use 6qts of oil every 8,ooomi @30.oo plus 2 filters 12.oo so 42.oo for an oil change every 8,ooomi. thats cheap.

regular oil goes for 3.00 you will need 10 qts every 3,ooomi thats 30.00 plus 8.oo for your two cheapo oil filters that come to 17.50 for each change for you . your saving about 4.50 more than me every 8,ooo mi but I change the oil at 8,ooomi. not 4,ooomi so I save on work .

synthetic does not create sludge as it does not mix or get damaged by mositure. reg oil turns into an acid. but if you drive a long distance daily this would not be an issue . short trips the synthetic works better.

towing or heavy loads in hot weather the synthetic maintains lubricating qualities. regular oil must be replaced at the 3,ooomi use or damage results. I got 380,ooomi on regular oil 17yrs old vehicle original owner. but the oil and filters where replaced every 3,ooomi. at 380,ooomi the emission test showed 12 ppm hc. used at that mileage 1/2 qt. mostly hywy miles for its life. synthetic is much less work .I like 8,ooomi much more than 3,ooomi. for 4.50 I'll stay with synthetic.

380K miles is approaching best in class. What brought the mileage to its end at 380K? Was it consuming oil at that point?

I believe the 3000 mile oil change is a thing of the past. 40yrs ago, yes. But with modern oils, I really don't believe it is necessary. A quality filter. I pulled oil in the last 10yrs from 4k, 6k,10k. The oil looked as good as the day it was put it in. I will comment on the fram filters. Numerous oil studies show that the fram has the least amount of per sq inch of filter coverage. Mann, Wix, and probably others have better quality. My 2 cents.

380K miles is approaching best in class. What brought the mileage to its end at 380K? Was it consuming oil at that point?


17yrs in the rust belt . engine /transmission worked great. having this vehicle from day one I never went over the fluid/oil replacement intervals or the other maintenence items . 1/2 qt at the 380,ooomi when sold.

vehicle had rust at the frame body mount areas. I did some work to correct some of it . then sold it . top portion looked great. seats/interior looked new. they don't make seats like that anymore.

Thats getting your money's worth for sure. What was the make, model, and engine?

What I get from this conversation is Chevy usually makes good tough engines. Oils are very good these days synthetic or conventional, and to enjoy your time with loved ones because you never know when it will end. Thanks guys.

Update: The lifter noise returned at 7K miles from the last oil change so I did another oil and filter change and the lifter cleared up immediately.

BTW, I have had around 10 vehicles with factory oil change interval computers on BMW's, Mercedes, and Chevys. The vast majority of all intervals dictated by the manufacturer computers on my vehicles have been near and many were over 10K miles and they have to warranty the motors. I suppose one could argue that their plan is to get you to 100K miles and then the bone yard as soon as possible after that so that you come get another new one, and that if you plan to get more than 200K miles then you better be more conservative. We'll see, the next one behind my Blazer is a Toyota RAV4 with 150,000 miles averaging 10K on oil changes with semi synthetic. The oil is always golden yellow and it does not consume significant oil between changes. Also, zero engine problems.

with the gasoline used with 10% alcohol the use of 100% synthetic is recommended. you being in fla. may mean you can go longer on oil changes. no cold/snow/mountains to climb/not much dust.

however with alcohol this is a corrosive material to our engines , the filters should be replace every 4,ooomiles..with reg or synthetic oils..

synthetic 100% you should be able to go 10,ooomiles some go longer.

lifter noises usually mean too long on oil changes or coolant in the oil. could also mean the crankcase venting system is not working correctly.

before starting after a overnight shutdown check for water/condensation at the oil fill cap.

mobil 1 synthetic works for me since 2001 in my 2000 silverado 5.3L.

no oil / engine noises or use issues 138,ooo in the north country.8,ooomi oil changes filters 4,ooomi.

Interesting suggestion on coolant in the oil. I am losing more coolant with no obvious cause externally and I noticed at the last oil change that the cap was hard to remove. I will also check the crankcase ventilation.

Interesting suggestion on coolant in the oil. I am losing more coolant with no obvious cause externally and I noticed at the last oil change that the cap was hard to remove. I will also check the crankcase ventilation.


warm climate vehicle owners/repair operators usually do not install the proper amount of antifreeze coolants. believing that this higher amount is not necessary where it wouldbe very unlikely that a freeze of very low temps could occur. also fla. water is not good for engines. you must use a distilled water. all this causes the metal to corrode. then the gaskets begin to leak. on the 5.3L engine I have these water pump to engine gaskets are the first to leak.

using some bars coolant stop leak after replacing and flushing out the coolant system and heater core when the vehicles age helps reduce the small coolant losses with out expensive repairs. use only a 1/4 of the bars product and see if the loss is stoped. more is not better. add more if you see that the loss is still occuring. if you still loose the same amount then you could have head gasket issues.

Opinions on converting to the high mileage dyno version or synthetic oil for my 190,000 Blazer? Any downsides? I have had some bad experiences in the past using mechanic in a bottle solutions for high mileage vehicles so I don't want to cause any new problems. I am consuming about a quart every 5,000 miles and my lifter noise comes back at around the same. The oil change then makes the lifter noise go away. I do not have any external oil leaks.

Interestingly I talked to Penzoil about oil the other day and the technical guy told me that Quaker State is a higher quality high mileage oil than Penzoil (more zinc, etc.) and suggested that I switch to high mileage and to Quaker State from Penzoil PYB.

Opinions on converting to the high mileage dyno version or synthetic oil for my 190,000 Blazer? Any downsides? I have had some bad experiences in the past using mechanic in a bottle solutions for high mileage vehicles so I don't want to cause any new problems. I am consuming about a quart every 5,000 miles and my lifter noise comes back at around the same. The oil change then makes the lifter noise go away. I do not have any external oil leaks.

Interestingly I talked to Penzoil about oil the other day and the technical guy told me that Quaker State is a higher quality high mileage oil than Penzoil (more zinc, etc.) and suggested that I switch to high mileage and to Quaker State from Penzoil PYB.

using 5-30wt non synthetic engine oil should be replaced at 4,ooomi or when the oil gets very dark. oil use of 1 qt /5000mi. with the mileage on this engine is quite normal. I have not used quaker state oil for about 25 yrs now. castrol or penzoil I have used and found these to perform with no issues or wear etc.

lifter noises are caused by dirty contaminated oil. the oil filter is what cleans out the debris and when the filter gets filled up the lifter noises start. using purolator plus/wix/mobil oil filter are what I use and recommend.

I would not use the synthetic with this high mileage vehicle because there would be nothing gained. when you purchase a new vehicle then I would use only synthetic . this is what is required on most new vehicles today to provide the max protection and oil cooling/lubrication.

the use of marvel mystery oil in the engine oil at the rate of 1 oz per qt of crankcase capacity/ 5 oz MAX total added in the engine oil reduces sludge and other deposits that create engine noises . also helps to loosen stuck piston rings . with synthetic these issues are not all that common. with non synthetic you do need some of this product to keep the engine clean.

I have used this marvel oil for over 30 yrs. I also add a few ounces in the fuel. the engines last a very long time with no issues. my 1983 ran 380,ooo mi with no problems . sold vehicle still ran better than some new vehicles. used 1/2 qt @3500mi which is the oil change interval.

I now have a 2000 sil 4X4 . use synthetic oil change oil at 8,ooomi. no issues . add a few ounce of the marval to the fuel tank at fill up. 138,ooomi no noises.

change oil when hot and do not go over 4,ooomi on non synthetic oil use.

THE HIGHER THE MILEAGE ON THE ENGINE THE GREATER THE OIL GETS CONTAMINATED !

Thanks. Your comments on synthetic conversion make sense. What about converting to high mileage dyno oil, thats what the oil companies are pushing?

I am using a Mobil One filter.

Thanks. Your comments on synthetic conversion make sense. What about converting to high mileage dyno oil, thats what the oil companies are pushing?

I am using a Mobil One filter.

high mileage [meaning the engine has high mileage on it] oils are non synthetic oils with more cleaning agents added.

by adding a few ounces of marvel oil to the engine oil you end up getting the same result only it appears to me to work better and cheaper.

the filter you used is a good one. also only use the proper viscosity oil which would be 5-30wt or 10-30wt oils.