97 cav theft mode on cant get it off


comet240
10-21-2011, 02:03 PM
hi i have a 97 cav i done the 3 key time trick turn key on leave for 10 min off pull key out for 5 seconds in again for 10 on etc doesnt work, bought the 200 dollar bypass pro module that bypass's the theft system but doesnt work,
used to be able to turn key three times and it would flash codes but all it does now is stays on solid the engine service light,

is this a problem of the ignition switch? as it had a recall on the igintion switch if u start too long it burns out but it was replaced in past and gm doesnt honour 2nd time they say its not faulty

so would it still be the igition switch? and how hard is it to replace? and do u need a new key or is it good enough? as i think the wire that has the resistor or something is not working telling car its ok

jdl
10-21-2011, 02:53 PM
If you paid 200 dollars for a bypass module, I'd talk to the manufacturer and get my money back. With GM OBD2 you never could get flash codes, that won't work. Use an obd2 coder. No offense intended, but, you don't act like, you know what your doing?

comet240
10-21-2011, 03:06 PM
sure i know what i doing
all i know is an igition switch is different from an igition cylinder and the switch has the resistor for the theft system for the pass lock 1 code
and for the 97 i used to be able to turn key 3 times to get security codes but now engine light just stays on

and as the 3 times for 10 min thats to reset the pass lock 1 system i did what gm said to do and didnt fix it

and the pro bypass company that bypass's the anti system of all cars said it is not there module and problem is bigger
they figured its the cars computer i thinking its the resister in the igntion switch and the ignition switch is 150 bucks

and i was not sure if the obd code reader ifi buy it will tell me if the igntion switch is burned out or if the computer is burned out,

all started cuz the cataylic converter was turning red hot then it wouldnt start anymore and cranking too long the starter stuck the car into theft mode and a 97 cav and up and sunfires are all known for there faulty igition switch that sends high current and can start fire etc, so i figured maybe the wire from igition switch that tells the theft system then to the computer is burned out

Tech II
10-21-2011, 07:37 PM
Think you have some misinformation....

used to be able to turn key three times and it would flash codes but all it does now is stays on solid the engine service light,

Maybe your THEFT light was flashing, but those weren't codes....

The resistor or R-Code is in the PassLock module, not the ignition switch.....

all started cuz the cataylic converter was turning red hot then it wouldnt start anymore and cranking too long the starter stuck the car into theft mode and a 97 cav and up and sunfires are all known for there faulty igition switch that sends high current and can start fire etc, so i figured maybe the wire from igition switch that tells the theft system then to the computer is burned out

Was the cat ever replaced? Fix the problem that caused the cat to overheat?

all started cuz the cataylic converter was turning red hot then it wouldnt start anymore and cranking too long the starter stuck the car into theft mode and a 97 cav and up and sunfires are all known for there faulty igition switch that sends high current and can start fire etc, so i figured maybe the wire from igition switch that tells the theft system then to the computer is burned out Today 02:53 PMall started cuz the cataylic converter was turning red hot then it wouldnt start anymore and cranking too long the starter stuck the car into theft mode and a 97 cav and up and sunfires are all known for there faulty igition switch that sends high current and can start fire etc, so i figured maybe the wire from igition switch that tells the theft system then to the computer is burned out Today 02:53 PM
Does the car crank over? Have you checked your starter? You can try to reset the PassLock system until the cows come home, but if your starter is bad, the car will not crank...


You need a code reader to read codes....but even most codes readers don't read "B" codes....code readers /scanners don't diagnose bad ignition switches...techs do.....

comet240
10-22-2011, 12:02 AM
they 3 times that takes 30 min was to reset the passlock and the theft light never flashed ever or shut off always stayed on

as for the codes it used to display like code 66 and the service light would flash to give me the codes but now the service light stays solid

so where is the pass lock module located can u buy that seperate and can a regular obd code reader tell me if thats burned out at all?


all this happened after i replaced the cat i put whole new exhaust on front to back as the old one was busted so it turned red hot i had cat replcated twice and then car shut down and i started and started and started then noticed theft system on, the garage said it probably be the rad sensor thinking the car engine too cold pumping more fuel into the engine so i replaced the tempeature sensor but dunno if it fixes it as the theft system never shuts off

car cranks over and u can turn key on and here the pump trying to prime but never does

do the laptop code readers work the one with the enhanced features? ya GM says they can diagnose it cost 150 bucks for them to check it

what are B codes?

Tech II
10-22-2011, 09:11 AM
Well, as for the Theft light, sometimes it flashes and sometimes it just stays on solid, during the reset process....but it DOES NOT FLASH CODES....

"B" codes are body codes......With the PassLock system, the usual codes are B2958 or B2960......

The service engine light NEVER flashes codes on an OBD II vehicle.....the only time the SE light flashes, is when there is a misfire happening, to alert you that this could damage the catalytic converter....

comet240
10-22-2011, 10:13 AM
ah ok ya never seen theft even go off ever

but like i stated couple times now i got the codes off the CHECK ENGINE light the service light not the theft as i was told this car is capable of doing key on of 3 times right away to get codes like in the past it was only nice feature it had

cuz in all 96 cars u can do the key thing but ok

so would the scanners that plug into your usb with the enhanced code readers tell me the fault?

but ok thanks for input if i cant find it guess i gotta push the car to a gm dealer lol

Tech II
10-22-2011, 03:53 PM
Well, there is NO FLASH CODE capability on these cars....

It's funny, there a re a lot of customers out there that think we just plug in our GM scan tools, and the tool tells us what is wrong with the vehicle.....that is so far from the truth, it's not funny.....

Scan tools just give us information....it may give us a code, but it doesn't mean the problem is what the code is named after....for example, you get an O2 sensor code, so the average person runs out and gets an O2 sensor and installs it...yet the same code comes back.....all that code means is, anything that is in the O2 sensor circuit(sensor, wiring, PCM, ground, etc.) or anything that affects the output of the sensor(exhaust leak, vac leak, fuel leak, misfire, etc.), can cause this code......

So a code reader or even a scan tool, won't tell you what is wrong with your car.....you have to be able to determine that, by interpreting data, and following diagnostic trees....

Since your vehicle cranks, your next move is to check for spark, fuel pressure(with a gage), injector pulse, and compression....

comet240
10-22-2011, 09:43 PM
ah ok all i know is i guess they said cuz the car was made in certain year of 1996 that it was able to do codes by key

but for the car
it does crank, it does spark, and it does get fuel, it has compression. and the injector pulse i dont know how to check that but it does not get fuel pressure as i was told the theft system on this car does no allow it to pressure up or how ever that works

as u hear the car priming each time u turn key

now i did get told today but i forgot there is a purple security wire if u bypass that wire or twist it to the fuel pump wire it will run they did it to a sunfire but i have to re ask

and what is the fuel pressure supposed to be there is no port on it to allow me to check with gauge though

Tech II
10-23-2011, 11:23 AM
If the PassLock is not giving a signal to the cluster the cluster won't send a fuel enable signal to the PCM......the fuel pump is not affected by this system....it should build pressure......but if there is no signal, then the PCM will not fire the injectors.....

Which engine is this? A 3.1/3.4 has a schraeder valve by the P/S unit....the four cylinder quad engine, if it doesn't have one on the fuel rail, doesn't have one....need a special setup to insert in the fuel lines, to get pressure....

Have your tried spraying carb cleaner into the throttle body to see if it will start and run? Spray into the throttle body and let it sit a few seconds.....then have someone crank the vehicle as you spray.....if it starts and runs or almost starts and runs, you have a fuel delivery problem....either the pump is not creating enough pressure(just because you hear it run doesn't mean it's building pressure) or the injectors aren't firing......

comet240
11-03-2011, 08:04 PM
hi sorry for delay been away

when i turn the key on u hear the pump run and then shut off u can turn key off and back on keep hearing it run but never pressureizes

the engine is the 2.2
and ya dont see no fuel regular

like the theft light never goes off now i have where i kept cranking and after abount a minute or so of cranking not constant cranking it will fire for a second then shut down

does the PCM or say pass lock affect the engine from pressurizing though?

so what setup do i need to add a pressure gauge to it or what not?

Tech II
11-03-2011, 09:23 PM
Did you spray carb cleaner into the intake to see if the car starts? Does it continue to run as loing as you have someone spray? If yes, it's fuel delivery.......either no pressure or the injectors are not firing....

If there is no schraeder valve, usually on the fuel rail, You need a special setup for a fuel gage.....follow the fuel inlet(not return) line back from the fuel rail......you will find a metallic connection that can be seperated with a special tool......the setup you need has to have the same male and female couplings as the fuel line and it has to have a port in the middle to attach a gage(GM shops have this setup)......

You can't tell what fuel pressure is, just because you hear the pump when the key is turned on.....

If you had a fuel injector light, known as a noid light, you disconnect one injector harness and attach it.....when you crank the vehicle, it should flash....if it flashes once or not at all, chances are it's the Passlock system not allowing the injectors to fire.....The PassLock system doesn't prevent the pump from building pressure......it prevents the injectors from firing.....

comet240
11-03-2011, 09:33 PM
hi no never got chance to try carb cleaner as i read this meassage and its already dark ill try tommorow

can i use a 12 volt algtor probe the prob with a light bulb in it?

and if it doesnt light and you say its the pass lock what part of the pass lock needs to be fixed?

ill try tommorow the carb cleaner

Tech II
11-04-2011, 11:08 AM
You can use a test light, as long as the the DC bulb is at least 12 ohms, on the injector harness.....don't go to a ground...you have to attach it to both connectors in the harness.....careful you don't short them out together, could lose the PCM.....

As for what the problem is, if the bulb doesn't flash? Hard to say.....could be the PassLock sensor......could be a wiring problem......on your year, I think your vehicle used the "smart cluster" rather than a BCM.....if that's the problem, then the cluster woud have to be replaced.....

This circuit is pretty involved......without being able to read codes in the vehicle, you are really guessing.....but if the vehicle starts and runs with carb cleaner in the intake, you have a fuel delivery problem......you can't check fuel pressure without the setup I mentioned.....if the injector light doesn't flash, then it's either the PassLock system(guessing since you have had problems with it), injector fuse is blown(with the key on, use your test light to ground and check for power on one of the legs, it's usually the common color to all four injector harnesses) OR you may have a PCM problem(could be the PCM......or wiring....or a sensor or module, for example, maybe the ICM is not sending a reference signal to PCM to fire the injectors).....

This is why working on vehicles today, is so labor intensive sometimes.....you have to have a starting point......then you eliminate potential problems by following a trouble tree.....a lot of techs try to skip this process, and thus don't "diagnose" the situation correctly....this ends up being a lot of needless parts being installed.....this is basically where you are.....but you are not alone......when I am at work, I have all these tools at my disposal.....I can bring my own vehicle into the garge before or after work and use them.....but if I tried to diagnose it at home without the tools and information available at work, I'm lost....then I am in the same boat that you are in...:banghead:

comet240
11-04-2011, 04:59 PM
hi

so i dont have someone to test with yet later today but i did try on my own with the carb cleaner and the engine fires up for the second and shuts down cuz i cant spray and start lol and the engine line goes out for that but still left with theft mode on

so i take it thats agood sign? also i did try a fuel regulator off of the 98 sunfire i have and that did not help it so i cant test the light theory and i have no idea if its a 12 ohm or not

so in all and all if i buy those 250 dollar obd 2 code reader will it help me? will it tell me any codes or does ti have to be a tech 2 scan tool from gm? i was thinkiing getting the pc version from
drew technogolys the Mongoose or the auto enginuity i looked at for home base there was another one i download the software i forget if that was the mongoose u download your car type and it gives u the specs min and max of each sensor too and what it currently reads too


ya i liked older cars less sensors now more sensors more headaches lol total BS lol i bet it gets worse later on lol

Tech II
11-04-2011, 05:47 PM
You can get a code reader for as little as 40 bucks.....but they only read ECM/PCM codes.....they don't read "BODY" codes, or in your case IPC codes....and in most cases, they don't read data.....

Tech II is in the vicinity of $2500 bucks and there are constant updates to them.....seeing a lot of stuff from China out there, you have to be careful .......Friend of mine, bought an expensive Calloway golf club online for like 1/3 the price....the shaft cracked within a year.....sent it to Calloway for a replacement, and he was told this was a cheap copy of their club.....they wouldn't warranty it......

comet240
11-04-2011, 09:07 PM
ah ic ic well did u look at both those links ever heard of them? would they tell u you IPC codes? what is IPC? the AutoEng one tells u body codes or least they say it does i guess

and i got my mother to start car while i sprayed carb cleaner in and engine was running till i stopped spraying

was too dark to test injectors ill try that tommorow will multimeter work too?

comet240
11-04-2011, 09:31 PM
http://www.autoenginuity.com/ thats the site for the Auto Enginuity i was thinking of getting

and here is the http://www.drewtech.com/ for the mongoose let me know what u think about that? what do you recommend for a laptop version thats not tech 2 lol for the home user

comet240
11-07-2011, 07:41 AM
hey so what can you do to help me now? what do i check for now?

what would it be narrowed down too since it will run on the carb cleaner what you want me to try now?

Tech II
11-07-2011, 07:50 PM
As I stated before, tough diagnosing unless you go step by step, with proper tools and diagnostics....we can't read codes, we can't check fuel pressure, we can't check injector pulse....

Fact it starts with carb cleaner, means a fuel delievery problem......either no pressure(fuel pump/fuel circuit problem) OR the injectors are not firing(either the PCM is not receiving a reference signal, or it's not receiving a fuel enable signal, or the PCM is bad, or a wiring/power/ground problem).....

Here is one thing you can try....key out of the ignition.....disconnect neg cable first, then the positive cable........take the two cables and hold them together for a minute......reconnect pos, and then the negative....

Now, apply e-brake.......get a jumper box(don't use an electical battery charger), and attach it to the battery(make sure terminals are clean).....attempt to start car and release the key(may start and die), so it is now in the "on" position...watch the theft or security light....it may flash, or it may be on solid.....at the end of 10 minutes, it should stop flashing and go out, or if on solid, should go out......now, shut off for 5 seconds, and just turn key to on(don't crank).....wait 10 minutes until the light goes out.....shut off for 5 seconds, then turn key to on(don't crank)......wait for 10 minutes until light goes out.......turn key to off......wait 5 seconds....now see if vehicle starts....

As for those programs, I have never used them, so I can't give any insight on what they are capable of doing....

The IPC is the Instrument Panel Cluster.......sometimes called a smart cluster.....

I would recommend getting a used manual for your vehicle, if you want to work on it.....

comet240
11-07-2011, 08:09 PM
ah ok ill try that tommorow now if i do the key thing again i did before after 10 min the light still stays on is that good or bad?

what handheld ones for obd could do what urs does? or probably none i guess ill try this one more thing and then off to the gm dealer lol

as for the manual i already have one but it doesnt tell me that kinda stuff its just the haynes book cuz i have a 2004 cav and sister has sunfires so it covers all that cuz i got problems with my 2004 power steering

but if say hypathetical anyways but where does the reference signal and the fuel enable singal coming from thats the thing in the steering colum? and can i just replace that also and which one would it be as i have a bunch of plugs on there and no sure i figured it be the one on the left hand side of the steering column but hypatically if that was bad would that cause it

and whats a reference signal

but ill try that touching the terminals together but i dont have a jumper box i just use my other car i have 2 golf cart batteries in it but why dont u wanna use a booster cables and what does putting the 2 battery terminals together actually do?

comet240
11-07-2011, 09:47 PM
so i got bored and went and tried your tricks tonight had nothing better to do

so i did the terminal touching and the 10 min 5 seconds thing light never went out ever

then tried starting nothing if i let the key turn off say 5 times it will start for a second and it will try to start also like if it were flooded in the old style cars but light never shuts off

so best guess what would it be would it be the sensor as orginally the car was burning the new cats i put on it turned them red hot and i let it idle for an hour and it shut off and then after that i was trying to start it but i dont remember the light being on and the local garage said the cats will turn red hot sometimes when the rad coolant sensor not working and it thinks car is -40 degree weather so pumps more fuel in the engine

but ya so now what lol i think has to be that sensor but who knows lol

comet240
11-15-2011, 12:51 PM
hi i got another question i have a 97 sunfire also so they both same cars then so i wanna test parts from the sunfire on the cav but i wana try first is the sensor passlock one is t hat in the steering colum on the left hand side with the wires coming out for starting the vehicle?
os is it in the ignition cylinder where 4 tiny wires are coming out of?

this way i can trouble shoot a little more

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