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Dishonest ebay seller


Scale-Master
09-09-2011, 01:27 PM
Anyone thinking about getting the decals this seller is offering should know he is using unauthorized photos of my 1/20 scale Imperial Lotus 78MkIII model to hawk the decals he is selling.

The decals on my model are my artwork, NOT what is being sold.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-20-Decal-Lotus-78-Imperial-Tamiya-Gunnar-Nilsson-MkII-/220831262807?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336a91a857

I have contacted him and ebay, but apparently it doesn't rate to be addressed and the guy continues to lie about what he is selling by using my photos.

Zonic2001
09-09-2011, 03:04 PM
BTW, nice model!

By looking at the model and looking at the TABU decals he is selling... is obvious to a modeler that the decals are different. Some of your model decals have different colors than the TABU package.

Not that I'm trying to defend the seller but if your pictures are on-line... somewhere, doesn't matter where, they are game and can be used by anyone that has access to the internet. There is no law to protect the owner of a picture unless you use a watermark on the picture with your name rendering the picture not usable for other purposes. Sorry!

One thing positive about this is that your model is so good that others are using it! I would feel proud of it! Just trying to get some positive out of the entire mess. Have a great day!

Luis Pacheco
09-09-2011, 03:54 PM
Any photo is copyrighted. Is the law. Nobody can use photos of others without authorization.

jano11
09-09-2011, 05:39 PM
Any photo is copyrighted. Is the law. Nobody can use photos of others without authorization.

It's not that simple.

star21
09-09-2011, 10:15 PM
It's not that simple.

Yup, and considering that the seller is in Hong Kong I doubt no form of legal action could or would be taken. Sellers and businesses from Hong Kong and China seem to disregard or side step it all the time. On a similar note, eBay seems to favor a lot of high traffic sellers and not do anything- probably because they bring in so much revenue for eBay. :rolleyes:

Sorry to hear that someone's infringing on your work Scale-Master.

flhansen
09-13-2011, 06:53 AM
When I read the line 'dishonest ebay seller' I think - fraud - keeping money not sending stuff and in that line - but he has just 'loaned' a picture that is posted somewhere on the net of the subject of which he is selling some decals. If that upsets you - then don't post pictures on the big 'shareware' thing called the internet. Calling him dishonest is way over the top IMHO.

Flemming

Zonic2001
09-13-2011, 11:28 AM
When I read the line 'dishonest ebay seller' I think - fraud - keeping money not sending stuff and in that line - but he has just 'loaned' a picture that is posted somewhere on the net of the subject of which he is selling some decals. If that upsets you - then don't post pictures on the big 'shareware' thing called the internet. Calling him dishonest is way over the top IMHO.

Flemming


Ditto! Agree with you 100%.

ZoomZoomMX-5
09-13-2011, 11:44 AM
When I read the line 'dishonest ebay seller' I think - fraud - keeping money not sending stuff and in that line - but he has just 'loaned' a picture that is posted somewhere on the net of the subject of which he is selling some decals. If that upsets you - then don't post pictures on the big 'shareware' thing called the internet. Calling him dishonest is way over the top IMHO.

Flemming

I strongly disagree. It is a photo of someone else's work; not only their design work, but their craftsmanship, their personal artwork. First of all it's morally wrong, and second, the decals on the model are not the ones being sold. So they are deceiving the buyers of the decals. Of course this seller is dishonest. Especially since they could have done two simple things: Ask for Mark's approval to use photo and give him credit, and to make it clear to the buyers that the decals being sold are not exactly what is shown on the model, but similar. Whether that would have met Mark's approval is unknown, but the fact they are ignoring him now means they're the kind of dishonest thieves that I would never spend a dime with, and would tell everyone I know not to spend $$ with them either.

It's not like they're going to get rich off the decals, but it is most assuredly a very dishonest thing they are doing. Worthy of a few people buying the decals and then giving the seller the exact feedback they deserve. But it shouldn't have to be that way, if Feebay wasn't such a horrible enterprise to begin with.

Veyron dealt effectively w/a Hong Kong group of thieves that stole his design work for a phantom Ferrari race car and put it into production on a 1/18 scale product. He contacted them, told them to cease and desist, he contacted all the places that carried those items to tell them of the fraud and prove that he was the creator of the design, he effectively put them out of business on that one, and served notice that those on this side of the world will not put up with that kind of nonsense.

Scale-Master
09-13-2011, 01:44 PM
When I read the line 'dishonest ebay seller' I think - fraud - keeping money not sending stuff and in that line - but he has just 'loaned' a picture that is posted somewhere on the net of the subject of which he is selling some decals. If that upsets you - then don't post pictures on the big 'shareware' thing called the internet. Calling him dishonest is way over the top IMHO.

Flemming

Let's be clear here, the photos were not loaned (an action I and only I would have had to make) but taken and used specifically without my approval and when told to stop using them, they continue to do so.

You were correct in thinking fraud because it is.
Fraud: Deceit, trickery, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.

What they are selling is not what my photos represent.

Calling him dishonest is 100% accurate and correct, as is referring to the action as fraud. Could also be considered Bait & Switch, also illegal.

So, if someone steals your identity on "the big 'shareware' thing called the internet", or if someone steals your car parked in front of your house, you would by the same definition, not get upset with the thief because those items were in public?

stevetriumph
09-13-2011, 02:36 PM
Share is the operative word here. I park my car in front of my house but I protect it by locking it up, I certainly don't leave the keys in the ignition. That WOULD be sharing.
I also make a great effort to protect my identity with up to date internet security. I certainly don't share my details either.
Steve.

flhansen
09-13-2011, 04:18 PM
So, if someone steals your identity on "the big 'shareware' thing called the internet", or if someone steals your car parked in front of your house, you would by the same definition, not get upset with the thief because those items were in public?

Ermmm not the same thing... My identity is protected with passwords - my car is protected with a set of keys. To prevent these from being stolen. Alright? If you place a picture on the internet without any protection it WILL be used somewhere - like you printed it out and placed it on a parkbench. So make them small - make them in a bad resolution - watermark the hell out of them - and noone cares to look at your work... tricky right?

Flemming

Scale-Master
09-13-2011, 05:27 PM
Illegal means illegal, theft is theft. Whether it is a two cent piece of bubble gum or someones intellectual property. It is unethical and illegal. If someone stole your car, even if you left the keys in it, they still stole it and it is still a crime, is it not?

l'm not sure what your point is. Trying to justify or condone his actions is confusing to me, it sounds a lot like you are defending the culprit for some reason.

I think you are missing the original point too. I just wanted to make people aware that if they were to purchase from that seller, they would not be getting what he is (mis) representing by showing my work as what he is selling. Consider it a public service announcement.

flhansen
09-14-2011, 03:51 AM
I'm not trying to defend the seller - don't know him - haven't ever seen his profile before you pointed the finger at him.

My point is in my original post.

I know that he hasn't - but technically he could have taken the picture himself if your model had been in the public at a show and used in his advert. Stealing of intellectual property? If you make a model of a car you have taken pictures of whether it is a racecar or a privately owned and display it on a show or lets say here at AF have you then stolen intellectual property?

'Real' dishonest persons to me are someone like Paul Raterink at TVF1 who takes peoples money without sending them their goods...


Flemming

stevetriumph
09-14-2011, 04:46 AM
Illegal and unethical, don't think so. Probably impolite at worst. If I bought the decals and he shipped them to me, I would be happy. Not sure I would care if the built model pics were his or someone elses. If his feedback is anything to go by I wouldn't buy from him anyway. He seems dishonest but not for the reason that you have issues with.
I suppose he would never have asked for permission to use your pics - if you judge his character from his ebay feedback.
Steve.

dozman
09-14-2011, 05:14 AM
The evilbay seller is portraying the decals on the model in the picture as being of their own creation, this is plagiarism and it is an illegal and very dishonest act.

I'm pretty sure Mark is only trying to make people be wary of what they see is not necessarily what they'll get.

stevetriumph
09-14-2011, 06:05 AM
I appreciate the fact that Mark has flagged this up and thanks to him for that. At the end of the day we all pay our money and take our choice.
But, and it is a big but. The seller has done nothing illegal, he does not state that the decals he is selling are the same as those used on the model in the pics, or that the model is his own work.
As stated above, he has been rude to Mark by doing this and I am in no doubt that he is probably a shady seller, judging by his F/B, but this is hardly a dishonest listing.
I don't condone what the seller does, I just don't think there is an honesty issue.
Steve.

malscar
09-24-2011, 11:54 PM
Hi Mark

he is still doing it. The photos have the properties of Modersite. Is that your site? If so, change the photos with a sign saying stolen from ... That will get his attention. I have done it with photos I have had used.

Mal

lovegt40
09-30-2011, 05:53 AM
btw, wonderful model of a great unlucky swedish Pilot.Is there any link to the build thread?I would love to see it.

I understand Mark at all, but suspect Flemming is bloody right...

Idea: instead of trying to fight with Hong Kong fellow selling this way, why dont u try ask him at least to place your name under the pictures of the build model?nearly surely he will nto respond too, but will be a good deal if he at least write it in the auction...

Scale-Master
09-30-2011, 12:19 PM
WIP:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1062386&highlight=imperial+lotus

lovegt40
10-01-2011, 05:29 PM
thnx Mark,really a wonderful model.

grundski
10-04-2011, 10:51 AM
Ermmm not the same thing... My identity is protected with passwords - my car is protected with a set of keys. To prevent these from being stolen. Alright? If you place a picture on the internet without any protection it WILL be used somewhere - like you printed it out and placed it on a parkbench. So make them small - make them in a bad resolution - watermark the hell out of them - and noone cares to look at your work... tricky right?

Flemming

Flemming, I guess if Scale Motorsport put a super detail set out of the Jordan 191 and without your permission, used your build images to sell his product even if it was his own parts, in your eyes, that's 100% legit? (if it were your build)

It clearly violates EBAY's own rules. It doesn't matter what you think, I think or how we view it, it is against their rules. I've seen it before, I've seen sellers selling studio 27 decals calling them scale motorsport decals. I've complained to ebay and they claim the site is "policed by users" yet they do nothing when you provide them PROOF their rules are being broken.

I wouldn't worry too much, you can buy his products from the source in HK and ship them to the US for less than his starting bids. McLaren GTR San Miguel decals for example.

flhansen
10-05-2011, 07:38 AM
Flemming, I guess if Scale Motorsport put a super detail set out of the Jordan 191 and without your permission, used your build images to sell his product even if it was his own parts, in your eyes, that's 100% legit? (if it were your build)



A hypothetical scenario very unlike the case in question.

Flemming

stevenoble
10-05-2011, 10:30 AM
I really don't mind if anyone uses pictures of any of the kits I have built, they are just models I have assembled as part of my hobby. When I built my Tamiya Suzuki Hayabusa and used the Zero 2K clear for the first time I mentioned that in my WIP. Afterwards Hiroboy said that the sales of the 2K clear had rocketed on the back of that build. I never got anything in return for that and didn't expect to. The fact that people had bought a product that I had used and mentioned because they liked what I had done with it was reward enough and I actually saw it as a compliment. The case here is a little different. Sure that seller should have asked for permission before using anyone's pictures, but I wouldn't say it's dishonesty..?? It's clear from the advert that you are buying Tabu brand decals and that is what you will get. I think the pictures have been 'borrowed' to simply illustrate how the colour scheme looks on that car, not to actually sell more decals, however, yes, he should have asked first before using the pictures in question...

grundski
10-06-2011, 01:42 AM
A hypothetical scenario very unlike the case in question.

Flemming

Wow. You are off your rocker. It's called a different perspective to your warped view. But I see that you are obviously the most intelligent man on the internet and what you think goes. Its no different. I'd pass the info on to vendors, but your builds wouldn't drum up any business anyhow, but I'm sure they'd like to know your images are free to use.

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