Tranny hitting hard park to drive -- Still under warranty


dorlow
08-15-2011, 05:02 PM
So, maybe I should be posting this to a legal forum, but wondering what others have done to get this fixed. We currently have about 3,000 miles left on our warranty. When shifting from park to 1st gear, it usually hits really hard. We took it to the dealer that sold us the car and warranty. It's an after market warranty through Vehicle One.

Well, the dealer test drove it and they said they felt it. The adjustor for the warranty though said they drove it many times and never felt it. (Trust me, it does it all the time... Either the guy was wearing really fluffy pants and wearing ear plugs, or he was just being a jerk and ignoring it... which the dealer guy I was talking to said the adjustor was acting like a jerk to them.) What they want us to do is get the transmission fluid flushed and that will fix whatever small problem we have.

I've had cars with tranny problems in the past. I've been told, when you're having problems, that's the last thing you want to do. For one, all the evidence of what's wrong with the tranny is in the fluid. Flushing the tranny gets rid of any evidence of what's wrong with the fluid. Also, the dealer said they looked at the fluid and the fluid level was good and it wasn't dirty.

And two, it might clear up for a little bit, but whatever metal chips that are in your tranny with be flushed free and moving freely throughout the tranny and do more damage, where as not changing the tranny fluid, it doesn't move around much.

So, either you flush your tranny when it's necessary or you never do... but don't do it way late. The car has about 60,000 miles on it. The owners manual says it's required to change it every 100,000 miles. So a fluid flush isn't even required yet... let alone the dealer stated the fluid looks good, not dirty and its full.

I called and talked to someone at the dealer and I feel he was being honest with me. I understand the dealer's view. They need to get reimbursed for the repair. If the warranty company won't reimburse, they won't touch it. But it was this dealer that sold us the warranty, and I made that very clear that if they sell it, they should stand behind it... but none the less we have to get the warranty company to agree. (They did say they don't sell the warranty anymore because of problems they've had with them, but that doesn't help my pocket book.)

They did give us one other option. They can do a tranny teardown and find the cause of the problem. But they're using scare tactics with us on this one. If they find a problem that they deem is caused by us or if they find no problem at all, we have to pay the complete cost for the tear down and rebuild. If they find a problem that would be covered under warranty, then it's covered by the warranty.

So, the guy at the dealer that I do feel is being very honest with me told us to take the van back and just drive it and hope it goes out in the next 3,000 miles.

But I see myself getting screwed with this. I'm going to try to get something done in the next few months, but I'm going to get nowhere and I'm going to get stuck paying the cost for a new tranny and the cost to put it in when I have a warranty now.

What have other people done to get around this? Take it to another repair facility and have them write up a repair order saying their wrong? Would the warranty company even bother reading someone else's diagnosis? I don't think they will. It probably would just end up in the trash.

Any suggestions? What have others done in this situation so they don't end up in the end getting screwed?

Tech II
08-20-2011, 03:18 PM
Is this a GM dealership? If it is, then you call GM Customer Assistance, and you tell them that you bought a GM vehicle, from a GM dealership, and that they won't stand by the warranty they sold you....that the shop says there is a problem, but the warranty company doesn't.....in fact, since they admitted, that there was a problem, and the fact the warranty company wouldn't cover it, you should ask for your money back....

Were all mounts checked out? Is there a harsh shift from second to 3 or 3rd to 4th? Any PCM codes that may cause full line pressure?

dorlow
08-22-2011, 08:52 PM
Were all mounts checked out? Is there a harsh shift from second to 3 or 3rd to 4th? Any PCM codes that may cause full line pressure?

I don't know if the mounts were checked out but I highly doubt that's the issue. It only hits hard from park to first.

dorlow
08-23-2011, 05:41 PM
Is this a GM dealership? If it is, then you call GM Customer Assistance, and you tell them that you bought a GM vehicle, from a GM dealership, and that they won't stand by the warranty they sold you....that the shop says there is a problem, but the warranty company doesn't.....in fact, since they admitted, that there was a problem, and the fact the warranty company wouldn't cover it, you should ask for your money back....

Were all mounts checked out? Is there a harsh shift from second to 3 or 3rd to 4th? Any PCM codes that may cause full line pressure?

So I called the Pontiac customer line. They also said there's nothing they can do. The warranty is a 3rd party warranty they sold me. Also dealers aren't owned my gm so there's nothing they can do, so I guess the little guy gets screwed.

The dealer said if I didn't want to end up with a bad tranny, I could trade it in for another car but how much would they give me for a car with a bad tranny?

So I'm trying to decide between trading it in which they will probably never give me what it's worth and I'll just end up with a higher car payment on a car with no warranty that will also probably break.

How much does it cost on the average for a worse-case scenario? Say if the tranny completely blows up and I need to pay someone to take it out and replace it with a new tranny. Am I looking at a $700 bill or a $5000 bill? Anyone have a good rough estimate?

spike88
08-28-2011, 09:40 AM
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Don't know how much is costs to pull / replace a FWD transmissions. Especially the 4T65E transmission. Suggest visiting a few transmission specialty shops in your area and ask for estimates. Each region charges different shop rates.

Talk about 4T65E transmission specialists, I would NOT flush this specific transmission. Its lower pan can be removed, its inner filter can be removed (replaced) and its fluid can be changed (by letting its gravity drain). My transmission specialists says its very bad to "flush" (which involved pressuring fluid) the GM transmissions. Pressure is hard on its inner seals. Vision holding your nose, close your mouth and try to blow out - creating inner pressure inside the nasal cavities. Hear the hears pop??? Pressuring the insides of a transmission isn't natural either. And, its hard on its inner seals as well. Always best to change the ATF fluid via natural "gravity drain". And, ensure they change the bottom (inner) ATF filter as well. Some shops "cheat" and don't perform this mandatory tasks. Just like some shops don't change low cost oil filters (during engine oil changes) either. But, that's a topic for a different post....

My local transmission specialist also says the 4T65E transmission "runs hot" at factory configuration. Yes. It's cool on cool days and cool and normal flat ground driving but on hills and being loaded, this transmission runs hot. Even if one doesn't tow or heavy haul things (re: only used as soccer mom van for little kids), it runs hot. He recommends the install of aux ATF cooler. If living in hot climate region or for minor towing, install aux ATF cooler used for attached 5,000 lbs trailer. If only used for "soccer mom" travels, then install aux cooler for attached 3,000 lbs trailer. If wondering, my GM mini-van has an aux ATF cooler for attached 5,000 lbs trailer, and its ATF cooler is now always cool. re: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HDA-679/?rtype=10 Remember.... Heat = problems = early death. Always install an aux ATF cooler (like the Low Pressure Drop Design of Tru-Cool or Hayden brands) in your GM van. They work and dramatically lower the risk of future transmission problems.

Back on topic.... The 4T65E transmission is "Electronic" shift. Thus, why an "E" within its model number. Many shift problems isn't from pure mechanical problems. Sometimes, its from its electronic part - that can be fixed "without" pulling the FWD transmission out. Suggest asking a few local transmission specialists to take your van on a test drive, then ask them what the problem could be. It could be from a simple $80 replacement part - that can be fixed from its underside (without pulling the transmission out).

Hope this items help as well...

dorlow
08-28-2011, 05:00 PM
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Back on topic.... The 4T65E transmission is "Electronic" shift. Thus, why an "E" within its model number. Many shift problems isn't from pure mechanical problems. Sometimes, its from its electronic part - that can be fixed "without" pulling the FWD transmission out. Suggest asking a few local transmission specialists to take your van on a test drive, then ask them what the problem could be. It could be from a simple $80 replacement part - that can be fixed from its underside (without pulling the transmission out).


Hope this items help as well...

Anyone else have any input on this? Is there a common electronic fix that maybe I could even do and not have to pay someone else to do it?

spike88
08-29-2011, 04:08 PM
The diagnoses of the problem is simple... Much simpler then asking us to throw a dart in the dark - hoping to hit the target.

Simply.... Take your vehicle to 3 x local transmission shops and ask them what could be wrong with it. They should take for a FREE test drive and tell you the most likely cause of the problem. If all 3 shops state "xyz part is the problem", then you know what to fix. Then, ask how much to fix it. They will tell you their shop rate and if they need to pull the engine - to fix it. And, will give a free repair estimate. Don't be afraid of auto-shops. They are not your enemy. Treat them well and they will treat your vehicle well in return....

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dorlow
08-29-2011, 08:09 PM
The diagnoses of the problem is simple... Much simpler then asking us to throw a dart in the dark - hoping to hit the target.

Simply.... Take your vehicle to 3 x local transmission shops and ask them what could be wrong with it. They should take for a FREE test drive and tell you the most likely cause of the problem. If all 3 shops state "xyz part is the problem", then you know what to fix. Then, ask how much to fix it. They will tell you their shop rate and if they need to pull the engine - to fix it. And, will give a free repair estimate. Don't be afraid of auto-shops. They are not your enemy. Treat them well and they will treat your vehicle well in return....

.

I guess I posted it hoping it was a common problem. I'm a computer tech. Its extremely rare one computer has a hardware problem unique. Usually when one has a problem, it isn't too long until all of the same make and model computers have the problem. So I can't imagine I'm the first with a Pontiac Montana with this problem. I'd imagine many, maybe hundreds, of people would have experienced this problem and had it fixed and most are the same fix.

spike88
08-29-2011, 08:36 PM
I guess I posted it hoping it was a common problem. I'm a computer tech. Its extremely rare one computer has a hardware problem unique. Usually when one has a problem, it isn't too long until all of the same make and model computers have the problem. So I can't imagine I'm the first with a Pontiac Montana with this problem. I'd imagine many, maybe hundreds, of people would have experienced this problem and had it fixed and most are the same fix.

Being a computer Techie, vision yourself on a helpdesk. Customer calls and says their computer's Hard Drive is making a noise. The customer then asks how to repair it. To help, what do you do? From your position, you cannot directly hear the sound, you cannot feel the sound and you cannot see the conditions making the sound. Do you say, "oh - 1,000 times in the past, its the heat sensor - that warps its cooling fan - which makes it rub" - which makes that sound. Do you assume this is the root cause of the problem??? Hope not... Seriously.... Take your vehicle to 3 x local transmission specialists - to allow them to feel, touch and see the problem themselves. Just like you tell your computer customers to take their broken computer to the "the shop" as well... Don't be afraid of the specialists.

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trannyman52
08-30-2011, 10:05 AM
Spike,,,,you are making too much sense,,,I don't know if common sense is allowed !!!!!!
P.S. After market warranties are not worth the paper they are written on!!!!!

rkvons
08-30-2011, 12:36 PM
You know, what you could do is get some sea foam for transmissions, use it according to the directions, then take the tans. pan off, drain the fluid, replace the filter (making sure you do it properly), and then fill it with the correct amount of Synthetic trans. fluid. This would not hurt and may give you some different results.

dorlow
02-02-2012, 07:26 PM
I forgot to ever post a follow up. So, it got kind of bad again and the warranty was about to expire. We took it to the dealer and they gave us the same speel... they have to tear it apart and if they find something covered under warranty, then we're good... if they don't then I have to pay for the rebuild. I pondered about it for like 2 days and then finally said "go ahead and tear it down." Well they found something wrong that was covered. They basically did a complete tranny rebuild. What I don't understand was I had the miles wrong. When I brought it to them, my warranty was over by 1,000 or so miles and for some reason they still covered it. I didn't question it... I just got a tranny rebuild for $100. Since it was the dealer that did it, I now have a warranty on the tranny for 1 year or 12,000 miles.

1999montana
02-03-2012, 10:16 PM
...Don't know how much is costs to pull / replace a FWD transmissions. Especially the 4T65E transmission. Suggest visiting a few transmission specialty shops in your area and ask for estimates. Each region charges different shop rates.

Talk about 4T65E transmission specialists, I would NOT flush this specific transmission. Its lower pan can be removed, its inner filter can be removed (replaced) and its fluid can be changed (by letting its gravity drain). My transmission specialists says its very bad to "flush" (which involved pressuring fluid) the GM transmissions. Pressure is hard on its inner seals. Vision holding your nose, close your mouth and try to blow out - creating inner pressure inside the nasal cavities....

It costs about $2,000 to pull the 4T65E. I had it done at 223,000 KMs here in Niagara Falls, ON. There is no shop here in town that would recommend a tranny flush, for all the reasons you mention, and more.

The best approach has always been to drop and fill, sometimes running a cleaning agent like SeaFoam and then drop and fill. I've seen the crap that comes out of the trans when you drain it. It's creepy and most of it is clutch crap and minor metal shavings.

Tech II
02-04-2012, 07:55 AM
Glad to see the dealer stepped up for you, especially since you were out on mileage....

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