97 won't start in humidty or snowy days.


gpw
08-11-2011, 09:41 PM
I posted this problem before. Still got no results.
I gave the car to my neice now. The starting problem still persists.
In driving in snowy conditons where snow gets buffed up when going through the small drifts or there is lots of humidity in the air. The car won't start. You just get a click like the starter trying to engage. The more you try, then the power door locks click shut. To no availe . Even boosting does not help.
Now what this what has been done so far. 4 replacement starters. two new battery's. two Altenators. All ground cables and battery cables replaced with new ones. Yet the problem still happens. It had a remote starter in it from Factory. which the key fob got lost. 2 aftermarket ones were installed and removed, figuring they were causing the problem.
Fuses have been checked.
Now I read about the ccrm circuit thing in another forum. Would this be causing the problem? A bad solder connection, that in humidity, rain, or snowy days that the moisture causes the contacts to not connect properly.
I like to get this solved so my neice does not get stranded somewhere in bad elements. SHe just graduated from high school and plans to travel to university away from home.

Would really like this fixed. !!!!

AzTumbleweed
08-12-2011, 08:19 AM
Did you check the ground cable that goes between the engine and chassis?

gpw
08-12-2011, 09:50 AM
Yes that has been changed. There was some minor corrosion on the old cable. They all now have been changed to new cables, not used.

AzTumbleweed
08-12-2011, 03:36 PM
If possible, the next time it does this, I would pull the battery (new or not) and take it to a shop and have it load tested. This would rule out a charging problem. Problem could also be the ignition switch or clutch/neutral safety switch.

gpw
08-12-2011, 11:00 PM
Thought of the ignition switch. It will eventually get checked.
Neutral safety switch that is possible. But usually when they go or not work. You get nothing. No clicks.
The chaging system has been load tested more than 5 times. Even in the shop where the starters were installed.
Like I said all new cables and grounds. 5 starters, 2 altenators. Removed two remote starters from the car and it still does this.
But anyways. My sister is going to see about replacing the CCRM. See if this solves the problem. If it does. I will post it here.

AzTumbleweed
08-13-2011, 07:58 AM
I just checked my Escort and when I turn the key to start there is a click even if I don't push the clutch pedal in. Sounds like a relay. I've seen several ignition switch problems posted on here. That may explain why your's had a remote starter switch installed. :banghead:

gpw
08-14-2011, 11:17 PM
The car is an automatic.
The first remote was a factory and afterwards there was two after market ones.
I'm keeping that in mind. The ignition that is. Also the safety neutral switch.
This has been an ongoing problem for the 3 years I had the car and now still for my neice.
Otherwise it has been a good little car, except the rockers are rusting and have new ones to patch in that problem.

Intuit
08-22-2011, 08:17 PM
There is either a bad switch, bad relay or bad connection in the system.

The fact that this occurs at a time when corrosion of exposed metals will be accelerated, favors more toward a bad/weak connection.

Having a circuit diagram, as well as an assistant and circuit tester will help stop the cycle of parts-at-the-problem-throwing.

For the 2nd-Gen model (you have 3rd-Gen) I've read a no-crank with clicking case where such a problem was tied to a weak connection (corroded wire) between the starter and relay/battery. I've also seen one person claim that an intermittent no-crank without clicking problem was ignition related.

Might be a good idea to check out the flywheel teeth, the next time starter is off. I don't know whether this is actually possible, but would imagine that a flywheel with a short row of badly mangled teeth, might cause intermittent problems with starter engagement. This theory of course ignores the alleged role that humidity might be playing; though it's possible to have one issue play off the other.

zzyzzx2
08-25-2011, 08:11 AM
There is either a bad switch, bad relay or bad connection in the system.

The fact that this occurs at a time when corrosion of exposed metals will be accelerated, favors more toward a bad/weak connection.

Having a circuit diagram, as well as an assistant and circuit tester will help stop the cycle of parts-at-the-problem-throwing.

http://i.slickdeals.net/images/smilies2/iagree.gif

Intuit
08-25-2011, 10:39 AM
Another thing that occurs to me is that the remote starting systems tap into several starting related wires. I an alarm with remote starting capability installed. Had this professionally installed because I wanted someone who was experienced and would do it right; and for the most part he did. But while investigating a problem with ghost-alarms, I found that one of the connections was twisted-on. It wasn't tapped (good) and wasn't soldered. So I went ahead and soldered it. Could be coincidence because some other things changed as well, but the ghost-alarms pretty much ceased after that.

Taps work by cutting into the wire; and taps often damage the wire they're splicing into. So you might go through the system, stripping, soldering and covering any of the wires that have been quick tapped (http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&biw=1107&bih=570&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=quick+tap+wire+joiner&oq=quick+tap+wire+joiner&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=15520l18658l0l18803l21l20l0l10l0l0l252l1654 l0.6.3l9l0).

gpw
08-26-2011, 10:28 PM
Haven't been here for a few days. holidays.
Anyways it happened again to my sister 3 hrs from home. I drove to where she was and it started before I got there. I pointed out the ccrm box and the safety neutral switch and the the ignition switch.
While I was there I disconnected the remote started hood switches. They make contact when the hood is closed.
I did a quick look under the dash and there was a pile of wires still spliced on from the 3 different remotes that were in the car. I told her to get someone that knows to remove them.
Well she took it to a shop yesterday and they could not find the problem. They felt all those wires were not a issue. So they left them. Nan they should of removed them. At least they did not charge her anything.
Now that I told her to get those things all checked or replaced and clean up the wires from previous remotes. She may solve the problem.
She will solve the problem in January. They plan to trade the car for a truck. But they need it to last til then.

The ringgear thing also came to mind. We put the car in gear and pushed it to turn the ring ringgear to a different postion. The problem still exists.
When I changed the starter I felt the teeth of the gear and found them sharp OUCH. No chewed edges.

Intuit
09-28-2011, 10:17 AM
........ For the 2nd-Gen model (you have 3rd-Gen) I've read a no-crank with clicking case where such a problem was tied to a weak connection (corroded wire) between the starter and relay/battery. ............
May have been a burned wire, as opposed to corroded. But if you're going to throw another part at the car, this might be it. Rewire the starter altogether; ensure that it gets good power directly from the source. Also pay attention to any components including relays, between the starter positive and battery.

Let us know what you found, or eliminated.

gpw
10-07-2011, 09:12 AM
My computer crashed had to get new one.
Anyways we think we finally solved the issue. The last time it happened to my niece I disconnected the remote starters hood switches. She took it to some shop and they said it could not be the problem and yet left all those renote starter wires hanging under her dash, saying they won't affect anything. Lazy!
Aftr I disconnected the switches the car has had no issues and has been starting on wet humid days now. SO spent a pile of money on starters , altenators, cables etc all due to remote starter switch which we mo longer have a fob for.
Thanks guys for all the help.

joel macneill
10-07-2011, 10:02 AM
If this problem persists or reappears in the future, do a voltage drop test on the suspected circuit. The reasoning behind this is when you test the circuit with a voltmeter and the circuit has a bad connection, then the available voltage will travel through one lead of the voltmeter and out the other bypassing the bad connection therefore showing up on the voltmeter as anywhere between 1 and 12 volts depending on the severity of the bad connection. This is a good way of diagnosing bad circuits. typically there should be less than a volt showing if the circuit is good. Just something to try if you run into this problem again.

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