Shut down

02 LS V8 3.9L

I was driving yesterday and it shut itself down. it kept trying to start but wouldn't turn over. it did a couple of times but would barely run. I found that the 15amp fuel pump motor fuse was blown so i took a fuse from another place to see if it would start up and it blew that fuse too. I suspect the relays but cant really tell because they have no good/bad indicators. How do you test them?

Are you referring to fuse F4.17 in the Battery Junction Box? This 15A fuse provides power to the Rear Electronic Module (REM) via the Fuel Pump Relay. The REM then switches the fuel pump on or off. The relay itself is just a switch, if it were stuck open or closed, it by itself would not cause the fuse to blow. If F4.17 is blowing, it's not due to the relay. The relay would normally be closed at all times when the key is in RUN or START.

If it's a different fuse that's blowing, please post back with the fuse number. I'll be camping this weekend and won't have access to my service manuals, but someone else on this forum may be able to provide further information.

-Rod

A relay allows a small signal to trigger a large current device, a fuse is used for protecion in the circuit.

If you suspect the relay, it canbe rolled with another of same type in the fuse box.

1) Try another 15amp fuse, and check the fuel pressure with the Key On Engine Off (KOEO).

It sounds like a bad fuel pump, the fuel pumps canbe located under the back seat.

Also see Similar Threads @ the bottom of yours.

Yes. The #17 15 amp fuse in the box next to the battery. The owners manual lists it as Fuel Pump Motor. So what do you think is causing the fuse to keep blowing? Fuel pump? Also, when i replaced with a good fuse and turned on the power to the car, I did not hear the normal hiss of the fuel system pressuring. When I tried to start the car the fuse blows. My Dad saw the spark of the fuse blowing.

A relay allows a small signal to trigger a large current device, a fuse is used for protecion in the circuit.

If you suspect the relay, it canbe rolled with another of same type in the fuse box.

1) Try another 15amp fuse, and check the fuel pressure with the Key On Engine Off (KOEO).

It sounds like a bad fuel pump, the fuel pumps canbe located under the back seat.

Also see Similar Threads @ the bottom of yours.


I did try another15 amp fuse. First thing I did last night. When I went to KOEO the fuse was ok. When I attempted to start the engine the fuse blew out, the spark was plainly visible because it was night time.

It sounds like a bad fuel pump, there's a short blowing the fuse.

How many miles are on this car?
Did you run out of gas prior?
Is the trunk dry?

It sounds like a bad fuel pump, there's a short blowing the fuse.

How many miles are on this car?
Did you run out of gas prior?
Is the trunk dry?

About 149k
Never ran it out of gas, I only run Chevron 93
trunk is dry

now to figure out which pump is the bad one,and are there any special tools or tips on replacing it.

Because of Age + mileage, it's probably time for a new fuel pump.
For a DIY, consider www.alldata.com (http://www.alldata.com) for procedure.

www.autopartswarehouse.com (http://www.autopartswarehouse.com) prices for OE LS fuel pumps is from $60 Delphi to being $300 for a MotorCraft.

Because of Age + mileage, it's probably time for a new fuel pump.
For a DIY, consider www.alldata.com (http://www.alldata.com) for procedure.

www.autopartswarehouse.com (http://www.autopartswarehouse.com) prices for OE LS fuel pumps is from $60 Delphi to being $300 for a MotorCraft.

how do i figure out which pump to replace?

how do i figure out which pump to replace?

also i was reading some other posts on the subject and i am suspecting the primary pump because:
the car died while making a left turn from a stop,and will not start afterward. it started and ran badly the first second and third attempt but it seemed to be running on whatever fuel was left in the system.

when turning the car power on KOEO, i don't hear the hiss of the fuel system pressurizing.

So if the the jet pump is more of an assist pump for higher rpms, the primary is for lower idle, and charging the system for engine startup. does that make sense?

if the motor is out i should be able to do a simple power test without having to purchase a subscription to all data. ...shouldn't i?

I e-mailed you a wiring diagram and a short description of how you could confirm if it's the fuel pump, the REM, or the wiring. Even though I only addressed the main pump and not the jet pump, the same concept would apply. If you unplug one pump assembly and the fuse no longer blows, you've determined which pump is the culprit. Unfortunatly, since the REM controls the pump, you cannot just substitute a test light for the fuse and watch for a brightly glowing test light to become a dimly glowing light indicating the short has been removed. You'll want to buy a box or two of fuses.

-Rod

Ok using common sense, if the jet pump is an assist pump to the primary pump, then the primary pump feeds the engine fuel rail. so it would make sense to believe that since the fuel lines to the engine are coming from the primary pump, the side of the tank with the fuel lines must be the primary pump side. does that make sense?

I e-mailed you a wiring diagram and a short description of how you could confirm if it's the fuel pump, the REM, or the wiring. Even though I only addressed the main pump and not the jet pump, the same concept would apply. If you unplug one pump assembly and the fuse no longer blows, you've determined which pump is the culprit. Unfortunatly, since the REM controls the pump, you cannot just substitute a test light for the fuse and watch for a brightly glowing test light to become a dimly glowing light indicating the short has been removed. You'll want to buy a box or two of fuses.

-Rod

Awesome, thanks. do you think im smart enough to replace a fuel pump without written instructions? ...i'm an old school military guy that used to assemble and dissemble tactical missiles and bombs so I religiously believe in the RTFM (Read The F**** Manual) rule. before starting any jobs you aren't familiar with

If the problem with fuel pressure over 2rpms, it's usually the jet pump.

If the problem with fuel pressure over 2rpms, it's usually the jet pump.

don't know because it won't start, it just blows the fuse.

If the problem with fuel pressure under 2k rpms, it's the primary pump.

You can bench test the pump!
12volts/17amp fuse = blown fuse
A good pump should have around .75 ohms, not 00 ohms (short)


http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1064333

Fuel pump installed. Rod your blow the fuse test didnt work. Don't know why but i couldn't get it to blow a fuse. I did install a new fuel pump, against my better judgement because i don't like throwing parts at cars unless i'm sure they are the problem. installed a new primary pump on the passenger side. interesting setup. Back on the road and shes once again runs like shes scared. Thanks everybody for all your assistance

oh yea, i now have a CEL 1237 but i don't know if it came before the pump install or after. when it wouldn't start all the dash lights stayed on. I scanned it after the first instance of the shut down and there was no codes, i'm thinking this is going to clear itself out on its own after i drive it for awhile.

P1237 - Was probably pending prior to the new pump.
Reset clear code, or go through a drive cycle.
see Google ''Lincoln LS drive cycle''

Was your fuel pump expensive?

that code was probably developing before the pump went bad. Kinda wierd, the computer gets info that something is going bad, but it waits to give the code just incase it misread a sensor wrong...kinda like, if a sensor goes bad...the comp will wait till it sees the same sensor sending it the wrong info over and over again....then it will finally determine that the sensor is infact bad and throw the code.

P1237 - Was probably pending prior to the new pump.
Reset clear code, or go through a drive cycle.
see Google ''Lincoln LS drive cycle''

Was your fuel pump expensive?

Autozone $150. Pump, filters, and I need a 5.5mm socket to open the housing. What you remove from the car is a container like thing that you have to disassemble to get to the pump. Hopefully you wont have a full tank of gas like i did. If so get some rubber gloves.

Sounds like a real good deal, because LS service would of charged $500-$800.
It really depends on how long it takes to pinpoint the problem, and how many parts they throw at it.

Caution -We like pulling the fuse pump fuse + relay, and run the engine out of fuel for safety before servicing the fuel pump.
Sparks + fuel - dangerous

Sounds like a real good deal, because LS service would of charged $500-$800.
It really depends on how long it takes to pinpoint the problem, and how many parts they throw at it.

Caution -We like pulling the fuse pump fuse + relay, and run the engine out of fuel for safety before servicing the fuel pump.
Sparks + fuel - dangerous

I know, that's why I pulled the fuse, the relay, and the first thing i did was unplug the pump. Should have remover the positive of the battery but im cool, its not like im standing on carpet or anything.

Hey btw the odbii code is still lurking around. CEL is still on. I could erase the codes myself but i want it to go off on its own. How long should it take to complete a reset cycle? Since its an enhanced code should I just erase it manually?

Sorry about not sending the instructions on removing the fuel pumps, but I'm glad you got it figured out. I'm a bit concerned that you were not able to get the fuse to blow. That makes me suspect that maybe a wire for the pump was positioned just right that it was shorting out, but once you started moving things around, the short went away and you were unable to blow the fuse. Did you happen to bench test the old pump after you removed it?

Assuming the code you are getting is a P1237, that is a code for "Fuel Pump Secondary Circuit Malfunction" with possible causes described as:


Open or shorted FP PWR circuit
Open FP Return circuit to Fuel Pump Driver Module (FPDM)
Open or shorted circuit in the fuel pump
Locked fuel pump rotor
Damaged FPDM
For LS6/LS8, circuits associated with the Fuel Pump relay

There's also a note that reads, "The FPDM sends a 75% duty cycle (750 msec ON, 250 msec OFF) through the FPM circuit to the PCM while the fault is being detected by the FPDM. If the fault is no longer detected, the PCM will return to sending an "all OK" (50% duty cycle) message to the PCM. The PCM will keep P1237 stored in Continuous Memory." This code may have been set when trying to blow a fuse with the fuel pump disconnected. Now that you have everything back together, it sounds like you'll need to clear the diagnostic codes and see if it comes back.

-Rod

Sorry about not sending the instructions on removing the fuel pumps, but I'm glad you got it figured out. I'm a bit concerned that you were not able to get the fuse to blow. That makes me suspect that maybe a wire for the pump was positioned just right that it was shorting out, but once you started moving things around, the short went away and you were unable to blow the fuse. Did you happen to bench test the old pump after you removed it?

Assuming the code you are getting is a P1237, that is a code for "Fuel Pump Secondary Circuit Malfunction" with possible causes described as:


Open or shorted FP PWR circuit
Open FP Return circuit to Fuel Pump Driver Module (FPDM)
Open or shorted circuit in the fuel pump
Locked fuel pump rotor
Damaged FPDM
For LS6/LS8, circuits associated with the Fuel Pump relay

There's also a note that reads, "The FPDM sends a 75% duty cycle (750 msec ON, 250 msec OFF) through the FPM circuit to the PCM while the fault is being detected by the FPDM. If the fault is no longer detected, the PCM will return to sending an "all OK" (50% duty cycle) message to the PCM. The PCM will keep P1237 stored in Continuous Memory." This code may have been set when trying to blow a fuse with the fuel pump disconnected. Now that you have everything back together, it sounds like you'll need to clear the diagnostic codes and see if it comes back.

-Rod

I still have easy access to the wires so I will go back and take a closer look at them to see if there is any obvious wire damage. That's a no on the bench test of the old pump. And yep, I was trying to blow a fuse by unplugging the pump. I will clear the codes out and give it some time.

Thanks rod

Info - This is what happens when the Jet Pump go's bad, see http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=975424

Info - This is what happens when the Jet Pump go's bad, see http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=975424

From what I learned the jet pumps have the job of boosting fuel pressure (and transfer) to the main pump at high rpms. Comes in handy for those drivers that like to push the car around a bit. I read that it engages when the car is under a load. Thats why its so easy to start troubleshooting the the ignition system first. regardless, this is a good post for any one who wants to understand how the fuel pumps work on this car. I guess if its feeling like a misfire or weak, yet there is no CEL for a misfire, check under the back seats.

Oh and another tip or two, when changing the pump be careful with:

1 - those plastic caps that secure the fuel lines to the top of the pump are made of that CHEAP PLASTIC we all hate, getting them to release will try your patience. Don't get pissed and break them.

2 - when you get the ring off, and can see down in the tank, the pump assembly should lift right out. NOT TRUE. The assembly rests inside an outer bracket and is held in by two long plastic clips very visible from the top view. Release those two clips and then the pump assembly will free itself from the bracket.

Great learning experience on this. Thanks everybody.

From what I learned the jet pumps have the job of boosting fuel pressure (and transfer) to the main pump at high rpms. Comes in handy for those drivers that like to push the car around a bit. I read that it engages when the car is under a load. Thats why its so easy to start troubleshooting the the ignition system first. regardless, this is a good post for any one who wants to understand how the fuel pumps work on this car. I guess if its feeling like a misfire or weak, yet there is no CEL for a misfire, check under the back seats.

Oh and another tip or two, when changing the pump be careful with:

1 - those plastic caps that secure the fuel lines to the top of the pump are made of that CHEAP PLASTIC we all hate, getting them to release will try your patience. Don't get pissed and break them.

2 - when you get the ring off, and can see down in the tank, the pump assembly should lift right out. NOT TRUE. The assembly rests inside an outer bracket and is held in by two long plastic clips very visible from the top view. Release those two clips and then the pump assembly will free itself from the bracket.

Great learning experience on this. Thanks everybody.

Sorry, no. The LS fuel tank and two sumps. The jet pump is so that you can use the gasoline in the other half of the fuel tank. It doesn't boost pressure or have anything to do with engine speed.

Sorry, no. The LS fuel tank and two sumps. The jet pump is so that you can use the gasoline in the other half of the fuel tank. It doesn't boost pressure or have anything to do with engine speed.

...not the way it was explained to me.

...not the way it was explained to me.

My info is from a practical understanding of the system. As an alternate to that, here's some info from the factory service manual.

The vehicle:

is equipped with a multiport fuel injection (MFI) system.
uses separately controlled fuel injectors mounted to the intake manifold for each cylinder.
has fuel injectors that are supplied with pressurized fuel from the fuel delivery module through the jet pump transfer module, through the fuel injection supply manifold.
has a fuel injection supply manifold that is controlled by the electronic fuel delivery module which is enabled by the powertrain control module (PCM).
uses an electronic returnless fuel system.
has a dual-container (saddle type) fuel tank, each half equipped with a fuel level sensor.
has a fuel transfer pump in the left fuel tank half to supply fuel to the right, which contains the fuel pump module that supplies fuel under pressure to the fuel injection supply manifold.
has an inertia fuel shutoff (IFS) switch, located behind the driver side left foot kick panel, which shuts off the fuel in the event of collision.
has a fuel system filter, located behind the left front wheel well splash shield.

http://deneau.info/ls/s6x~us~en~file=s6xa1007.htm~gen~ref.htm
http://deneau.info/ls/s6x~us~en~file=s6xa1008.htm~gen~ref.htm