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2000 Windstar reverse problem


olopezm
06-12-2011, 09:25 PM
Hello again people!

Today I had a problem with my transmission AGAIN, before I start I would like to let you know the transmission was "rebuilt" a year ago (about 5k miles); I replaced the TRS a month ago; and new fluid and filter a week ago.

I know the guy made a crappy job because he didn't put any new sensors in it, he only did new clutches.... I know, don't ask :mad:.

Anyway, as I was reversing into my garage and when braking/ holding the brake while in reverse, the transmission started to slam in and out of gear (only reverse) it seemed to happen only when braking.

As far as I can tell it only happens after a long distance (I drove about 100 miles) and tranny seems to work better when cold.

Also I know I need a new VSS because the speedometer starts to jump back and forth above 55MPH, I'm planning to replace it ASAP.

My question is if the VSS could be causing my problem? and what other symptoms could I expect to happen with a bad VSS?.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards,

Oscar.

trannyman52
06-12-2011, 10:20 PM
the vss really has nothing to do with reverse,,,that is a hydraulic position,,,,should have reverse even with trans unplugged,,,,,vss basically runs your speedo,,,,and gives speed signal to computer to calculate shift points......not quite that simple,,,,but that is the short of it....that trans has had problems with 2 piece {bonded} pistons,,,,,,must be replaced with 1 piece pistons.......

Windstartled
06-13-2011, 12:53 AM
My question is if the VSS could be causing my problem? I concur with other poster that faulty VSS is unlikely to interfere with reverse operation.

and what other symptoms could I expect to happen with a bad VSS?

In my experience with a bad VSS the most obvious issues apart from funky speedometer readings is untimely -and sometimes quite brutal- shifting points and the resulting poor gas mileage. IMHO it is not worth living with a bad VSS for extended periods of time.

olopezm
06-13-2011, 12:36 PM
Thank you for your quick responses guys.

About the VSS I can tell shifting feels a bit harsh sometimes, specially when overtaking another car and also the shifting takes longer (only 2nd to 3rd gear) so now I think I know those 2 problems should go away after replacing the VSS.

About the pistons, I guess that's not what I really wanted to hear LOL. So...

1.- Replacing the pistons should take care of it?
2.- how hard is it to replace them? I know in some transmissions these can be reached from the pan, is that the same with the AX4S/N?
3.- why it's only happening after long drives? I just drove it with no problems like yesterday...
4.- replacing ALL pistons for once and for all would be the best thing right?
5.- Finally what other symptoms could the pistons cause? Maybe slow engaging from P,N to gear (R,D)?

Thanks in advance,

Oscar.

olopezm
06-13-2011, 01:55 PM
Sorry I meant to say access the pistons trough the side cover where the valve body is. I'm just learning about transmissions.

UPDATE 1:

http://www.transtec.com/rebuilder_news/2nd_q96r-n.pdf

I foud this link with information about the AX4N and in page 6 they say:

"Every clutch piston in this unit, except the reverse clutch, is a bonded assembly."

So I guess that would discard a bad piston and indicate another problem, right?

Oscar.

olopezm
06-13-2011, 04:29 PM
Now that I think of it I've been feeling a small shudder when stopping almost completely at a red light, like something disengages (feels like the transmission wants to keep going but the brakes won't let it, so eventually the PCM finally commands the tranny to stop)

I just read that a neutral to drive accumulator can cause the same symptoms, what do you guys think?

Oscar.

UPDATE 2:

Ok so I've been reading the whole day about this, just read another webpage and found this:

"Shift Linkage Check

Check for a misadjustment in shift linkage by matching the detents in the transaxle range selector lever with those in the transaxle. If they match, the misadjustment is in the indicator. Do not adjust the shift linkage.

Hydraulic leakage at the manual control valve can cause delay in engagements or slipping while operating if the linkage is not correctly adjusted."

After a lot of tries I still haven't been able to make the transmission detents match the shift indicator. The further the lever travels (towards 1 gear) the more out of adjustment it is.

Do you think it could be my problem?

Oscar.

olopezm
06-14-2011, 07:23 PM
Hello again,

I just uploaded a video. It's not of a great quality but if you raise the volume a little you can notice the harsh shift at 0:21 seconds. Also you can see how misaligned the shift indicator is, but that's not my main concern, I'll check the torx screws under the dash.

Also I noticed the RPM's drop too much when selecting gear, the gear slams in and the clunk can be heard, then RPM's go back to normal idling speed. It can be seen in the video too. Do you think some mechanical problem could cause the transmission problem I'm having?

I hope somebody can shed some light. Thanks in advance,

Oscar.

Whatch the video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DIpX6tLW44)

trannyman52
06-15-2011, 01:08 AM
could be me,,,,,,i have never heard of a nuteral to drive accumulator!!!!...the shift indicator on the dash has nothing to do with what is going on in the tranny,,,,when you feel the "click" of the shifter,,,,,,,,,p,,,,r,,,,n,,,,od,,,,d,,,,,l that is the range the transmission is in no matter what the dash indicator says....You talk about the PCM commanding the trans to stop.....stop what?????? The job of the PCM is to regulate oil pressure in trans,,,raise line pressure under high throttle demand,,,high torque load....lower line pressure under low throttle demand,,,,low torque load ,,,so as not to have harsh shifts........I want to help you ,,,but you are all over the place,,,I don't argue that some of the issues you are having could be related,,,,,but the things you are looking at are totally in the wrong direction........
To start with to "Re-build" this trans like an old THM-350 is asking for it to fail!!!!!! There is issues with the pistons,,,,issues with pump shaft,,,,lubrication issues,,,,last but not least electronic issues..to try to figure what is going wrong now ,,,,,well,,,....
From your origional posts,,,the only thing I would try would be to replace the PCM///PWM,,,,what ever you want to call it ....the fact that it regulates line pressure would suggest that pressure is all over the place and not being regulated,,,,this could account for no reverse or weak reverse under hot conditions ,,,,maybe,,,,,This could account for bangy engagements,,,,maybe,,,,,...This assumes that the trans has the guts re-built correctly......Tried to upload a pic of the valvebody but you can google that.......The pcm/pwm is the large solenoid at the top left of valve body ..The one right below it is the torque converter lock solenoid,,,,to the right ,,,three in a row are the shift solenoids,,,i think they are marked 1/2 2/3 3/4......At least replace pcm/pwm solenoid with a NEW one,,,not used junk,,,the rest can be re-used ,,,would prefer you replace them,,,your call.....drive this thing before repair ,,,feel the shifts 1/2 2/3 converter lock,,,3/4......if all shifts are there ,,,shift solenoids are ok,,,,,if need replacement,,,1/2 2/3 3/4 solenoids are interchangeable...This can all be done through removal of the side cover,,,,kind of a bitch ,,,but it can be done....If this doesn't resolve the problem,,,removal and re-check how rebuild was done.....sorry for the long rant
gbaum

olopezm
06-15-2011, 03:56 PM
Thanks for your input, I guess there are some things that need to be clarified first

Well as you MUST already noticed I know NOTHING about transmissions, just like many other users in the forum. I have more experience with engine problems but thats it. And UNLIKE many other members IM WILLING TO LEARN AND "DO SOME HOMEWORK" when I have a problem, I won't sit and wait until somebody else advises. If I can find something useful I will post it in the forum in order to "help" other members help me, or help other members with similar/related problems.

If I'm all over the place it's because, again, I know NOTHING and I've been reading many different webpages since yesterday. I will explain where I came up with each comment:

1.- Bonded pistons You mentioned the problems with these transmission are the bonded pistons. OK, I take into account your comment and start to SEARCH more information about it. When I finally find some "useful" information all I can see on page 6 of this PDF (http://www.transtec.com/rebuilder_news/2nd_q96r-n.pdf)from post #5 is the reverse clutch piston IS NOT a bonded assembly, the rest are. If this is true, then the suggestion you made would make no difference with my problem; but since I just realized that might only apply for AX4N, I guess mine's (AX4S) must be still bonded assemblies; AGAIN I'm not the expert, but if you confirm the information about bonded pistons, I will be thankful and will replace all of them.
2.- Neutral to Drive accumulator I found that in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AXOD_transmission#Reliability_issues) and this site (http://www.aa1car.com/library/transmission_ford_ax4s.htm) confirms the existence of it under "Internal parts". I've tried to search for it in my diagrams but cannot seem to find it. If you confirm there is/isn't such thing, again, I will be thankful to you.
3.-Shift lever I found this when reading the shop repair manual; in page 6 of the "ShiftLinkage" PDF I've uploaded you can read such information. If it comes from ford I guess it's worth to have a look at it isn't?
4.-PCM You just said PCM controls line pressures, solenoids, etc. so IT DOES commands the transsmision, you said it, I didn't... When I wrote post #6 I was trying to give a picture of other symptom I have; changing my previous description I would say something seems to be stuck when coming to a stop, it feels like a small hit from the rear for a second just before the van completely stops. Another stuck piston? Bad seal?. Don't know...

I would like to ask you if the Transmission Fluid Temperature sensor could be bad and giving the wrong readings to the PCM causing it to improperly regulate the fluid pressure?

Finally I must say that I can shift normally through all gears, which would indicate the solenoids are OK.

I really appreciate your help trannyman52.

Regards,

Oscar.

trannyman52
06-16-2011, 01:46 AM
I understand you are not an expert on transmissions,,,,,,hell i have been playing with this junk for 25 years and every one i open up is a new set of problems,,,the answers usually are not the same as the last one I worked on.......Most info out there deals with assembly ,,,rebuilding ,,,the such....I guess the thought is ,,,if you rebuild right ,,,,it works!!!!!NOW the real world,,,,,what do you do when it doesn't???? Information for this condition does not exsist.....
Every point you have looked at could be an issue,,,but this tranny worked for a while so 98% of what you are questioning are a waste of time....
The computer system of control is not as smart as you are giving it credit to do....
Basically it takes signals from engine {speed} {torque load} the other ,,,vss ,,which tells it how fast car is moving,,,,,with that info ,,,,the system then turns off/on shift solenoids in different combinations to give different gear range 1st,,,2nd,,,3rd,,,and so on.......The computer also sends a signal to the PWM which raises or lowers line pressure in valve body,,,this is done to protect trans from slipping and keeps shift feel in a range that the driver is happy.....PWM does not care if car is standing still ,,or going down the road......
Back to the problem......I think to replace pwm might solve the problem because when you come to a stop,,,,pressure should fall,,,when this happens shift valves should return to the closed or nuteral position,,,ready to upshift again as you accelerate from stop....
If pwm does not function properly,,,,can cause valves to hang,,,then you get strange things happening,,,like the tranny wants to get out of the car!!!!
The fact that this did work for a while makes this the only wild card,,,,every thing else would be issues that should have been there right after rebuild!!!!!!

I am not always on here ,,,,was posting for info for my junk ford pick up,,,came across this post...you can contact me at gbaum@email.com ......we'll make you an expert on this pile of junk........gbaum

temp sensor generally is used to keep trans from locking torque converter till engine warms up...more to do with EPA emission regulations,,,,and to get engine to {closed loop running}

olopezm
06-17-2011, 05:19 PM
Thanks, will contact you via email ASAP and will post back any results here.

Oscar.

olopezm
06-21-2011, 04:24 PM
Just a quick update:

I finally got the solenoid from the shop and now I'm just waiting from some time to replace it. But something new happened yesterday.

After starting the engine, I began to drive and the O/D off light started to flash quiclky (I know, transmission problems...). After stopping aside the road, turning the engine off and on again everything went back to normal. I drove 50 miles on the highway with no problems and reverse did not act up when reversing into my garage. I don't know what happened!

The only different thing I did was starting to drive when the RPM's where still at 1500 (fast idle) instead of letting them drop a little... I read during the past days in a thread that this might cause some problems. Could it be possible?. By the way I'm still trying to find that thread.

Do you think autozone's cheap scanner might be able to get any codes?.

Thanks in advance,

Oscar.

tomj76
06-21-2011, 06:06 PM
I have a scanner that is the same (Actron) make as the code reader that AZ uses. My scanner reads transmission codes, so it's possible their code reader also reads them. I think I may have taken my van to AZ once before I had my scanner to read transmission codes. It certainly won't hurt to try.

olopezm
06-21-2011, 06:21 PM
Thanks Tom, will do.

Regards,

Oscar.

grog11
06-21-2011, 07:43 PM
Hi Oscar, Got your message, I know you had a rebuild a while back, and have to ask about warranty followup?
As an active member of this forum, I will assume you have checked fluid type,fluid level filter replacement, and all general maintenance issues have been maintained.
Do you have this torque converter shutter only in reverse and after your transmission has heated up?
I would suggest doing a coolant line volume flow test by removing the lower transmission cooling line from the transmission connection end after a 20 minute drive, and point it in a bucket to catch the atf fluid.Have someone start the vehicle while you watch the flow volume, it should be over 1 qt. in 15-30 seconds maximum.( Careful Hot Fluid Here) Shut down the engine, measure the amount.This will check fluid flow thru your radiator cooler for a blockage. If you have had a transmission failure the shop should have installed an inline filter in one of your lines, if they did not replace the radiator also.I don't know the background on your transmission failure.

You mention a shutter when you hit the brake pedal.You may have an electrical voltage drop from a short causing pwm computer trouble with command, and acknowledgements.You can check that wiring Do check the ground wires, and if you can also add an additional ground strap directly to the transmission bolt to assure a good ground, it is just a good idea

Get some electrical contact cleaner, and spray the trans range sensor connections internally to remove any film.Disconnect the battery and spray clean the computer electrical connector terminals on the firewall, passengers side This is a good idea to do to all your sensor connections really and then dielectric grease to prevent corrosion. VSS sensor, etc.

Trouble started after your TRS sensor replacement, carefully check wiring in that area, and it is possible your new sensor is failing internally, is it a motorcraft replacement or quality replacement? Some of the parts stuff sold is just not up to standards.

Transmission filter went on tight right when changed? Were there a lot of bad particles on the magnet and pan bottom? How did the old fluid look?

olopezm
06-21-2011, 10:14 PM
Hello grog11 (wish I knew your real name :D). Thank you so much, I really appreciate your quick response! I will try to answer each paragraph individually and as best as I can. I will also add some information which might be of use.

I know you had a rebuild a while back, and have to ask about warranty followup?
That's correct, it was rebuilt a year ago; unfortunately the warranty was only 6 months (I know, it was a bad decision which I regret. The guy does have the knowledge but his work is poor. He made a mess with O2 sensors and different hoses in the engine compartment). When we first got the van back the driving was pretty good in deed, I can say he did "kind of a good job" because shifting is great when there are no symptoms (like after a cold start). The only problem after the rebuild was the front seal, between engine and transmission, started to leak and the guy replaced it. That was the only warranty work I had done...


As an active member of this forum, I will assume you have checked fluid type,fluid level filter replacement, and all general maintenance issues have been maintained.
Yes I have, I changed the entire fluid about 3-4 weeks ago with Motorcraft Mercon V and new filter was installed too. With other general maintenance items I understand plugs, wires, etc; all those were replaced a year ago too.


Do you have this torque converter shutter only in reverse and after your transmission has heated up?.
Yes, and I can say it's not always. Like yesterday, I started the engine, took off and the O/D light started blinking. I stopped, re-started engine and everything was fine. I took a long drive (constant 50 miles, highway) (which in other cases makes the reverse act up) and no problems at all. 2 or 3 times I've done only city driving and the reverse acted up. At this point I would say it can be related to hot weather too.

I can add that the transmission seems to perform crappier when hot too, like slugishness. I've felt this shaking sometimes while waiting at a red light which also happens only when hot. I would attribute this to a crappy reman MAF from autozone I got (another bad decision). Also downshifts become harsher with high temps too, but I was thinking the VSS should cure it (bouncy speedometer only above 55 MPH).


I would suggest doing a coolant line volume flow test by removing the lower transmission cooling line from the transmission connection end after a 20 minute drive, and point it in a bucket to catch the atf fluid.Have someone start the vehicle while you watch the flow volume, it should be over 1 qt. in 15-30 seconds maximum.( Careful Hot Fluid Here) Shut down the engine, measure the amount.This will check fluid flow thru your radiator cooler for a blockage.
I'll try that. When I did the fluid, during the entire process, the volume seemed to be the same. However the transmission only took a little more than 11.5 quarts to the full line. I have to say that when I changed the fluid, it came out from the UPPER hose as opposed to any other user using the lower hose to get the fluid out.



If you have had a transmission failure the shop should have installed an inline filter in one of your lines, if they did not replace the radiator also.I don't know the background on your transmission failure.
Actually they didn't. I'll explain the original cause which led to that transmission shop:

It all started in 2006, my family and I were cruising on the highway when the van suddenly wouldn't upshift any higher than 2nd gear; also if you stepped too much on the gas pedal when taking off the van would shake like crazy. Just like drving on a big rumble strip. My dad brother and I rebuilt the tranny ourselves (nothing was out of the usual, discs had normal wear), at that time we didn't know much about torque converters so we replaced all the internals of the transmission, needless to say it didn't help with the shaking... Shortly after my brother and father died and I wasn't confident enough to try and fix it all by myself (was only 19yo back then) so the van went to the first shop, the guy only swapped valve bodies and a new TC several times until he "fixed it" but the problem now was a harsh shift from 1st to 2nd causing the disks to get a bit burnt. Tired of dealing with it the van was stored for 4 years until a year ago that, by recomendation, we found this guy who re-did the internals and found out the valve body wasn't properly assembled causing the harsh shift. Now you now the entire history about it. I could say the cooling system should be fine since there were actually no loose particles in it.


You mention a shutter when you hit the brake pedal.You may have an electrical voltage drop from a short causing pwm computer trouble with command, and acknowledgements.You can check that wiring Do check the ground wires, and if you can also add an additional ground strap directly to the transmission bolt to assure a good ground, it is just a good idea.
Yeah, at first I couldn't correctly describe it (you can tell that from post number 6) it feels like a small push from behind when coming to a stop (maybe at less than 10 MPH and lasts less than a second). This also happens only after warming up everyday. Another user (trannyman52) suggested that and the reverse problem could be the PWM solenoid too (Electric Pressure Control solenoid located at the top left of the valve body), which I already bought and am waiting to replace.


Get some electrical contact cleaner, and spray the trans range sensor connections internally to remove any film.Disconnect the battery and spray clean the computer electrical connector terminals on the firewall, passengers side This is a good idea to do to all your sensor connections really and then dielectric grease to prevent corrosion. VSS sensor, etc.
Did that with the TRS, will do with the PCM and VSS after I replace it.


Trouble started after your TRS sensor replacement, carefully check wiring in that area, and it is possible your new sensor is failing internally, is it a motorcraft replacement or quality replacement? Some of the parts stuff sold is just not up to standards.
I might have caused a confusion here. Problem actually started before and adding to that the rest of the symptoms, I thought the TRS was the problem. Now I know it wasn't... In any case I got the sensor from the dealer; it's a motorcraft.


Transmission filter went on tight right when changed? Were there a lot of bad particles on the magnet and pan bottom? How did the old fluid look?
Yes filter was tight. I decided to do the fluid and filter because the TRS did not solve the problem and the fluid still needed to be changed. There were no metallic shavings nor friction material chunks. Fluid was quite dark, almost like used engine oil! and had less than 5k on it, did not smell burnt; pan and magnet had a black film on them. Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures but after some googling (THANKS TO THE ORIGINAL UPLOADERS) I found some good examples of what they looked like:

This is what fluid looked like:
Click here (http://newbeetle.org/forums/attachments/technical-how/2321d1128571723-how-change-auto-transmission-fluid-05attachment.jpg)

An example of what the magnet looked like:
Click here (http://www.handymanlyness.com/archives/auto/maintenance/transmission/automatic/fluid_change/Chrysler_42RE/mxatsv11aro_trans_fluid_change.jpg)

And something similar to what the pan looked like:
Click here (http://dansautorepairllc.com/TransmissionPanMagnetAndShatterredRing.jpg)

I must say the shift points seem to be OK at minimal throttle: around 13MPH from 1st to 2nd; around 20MPH from 2nd to 3rd; TCC engaging around 45MPH and 2000 RPM's at 60MPH. And I noticed the shift lever easy to bump out from reverse to neutral (at least easier than drive to neutral).

WOW! That's a long post, I'm sorry if you eventually got bored :p. I guess I should have posted this since the begining...

THANKS IN ADVANCE

Oscar.

grog11
06-22-2011, 01:22 AM
Throttle position sensor sends signal to the pcm to calculate epc solenoid pressuresfor transmission fluid shift and torque converter lockup scheduling.This may be an issue

VSS sensor also sends signal to pcm to control epc pressure for shift schedules depending on speed values.

These 2 sensors have nothing to do with reverse gear function, which is strictly hydraulic and controlled by the valve body.EPC solenoid has nothing to do with reverse gear hydraulics.

The internal transmission wiring harness that connects to solenoids, can harden with heat and age and become very fragile. This can cause many symptoms that would seem like solenoids are not functioning correctly, this can also cause the pcm to initiate a blinking light to signify internal transmission electrical failure.

If solenoid problems buy quality parts, and once opened up look at the internal wiring harness and decide if you want a new one. Usually they should be replaced if old.

The time to diagnose transmission problems is before you open up or remove the transmission from the vehicle.You will need to scan for transmission codes to narrow the problem down to the suspect component.You may want to pay to have a shop correctly assess the problem, then repair it your self.Still you will save alot of money, and not be just throwing parts at a problem trying to hit the bullseye.

Its very hard to identify an exact cause of a transmission problem thru the internet, because many issues will sound similar in symptom, but could be so many different solutions that entail different parts. This is why it is so important to change fluids, filters, and keep transmissions cool.

Cracked flywheel,out of balance torque converter, stuck check ball in valve body,failing oil pump, piston seal seepage, sticking piston,broken valve springs,cracked retaining clip,line blockage, debris on solenoids, defective wiring,cracked drums,worn friction plates, and the list goes on and on.


I am hoping that your VSS sensor replacement will be a solution, but do get those codes scanned, hopefully its something simple, like a faulty wire, wouldn't that be great.

olopezm
06-22-2011, 01:29 PM
Thanks again for your time and help buddy!

OK, so I understand the EPC won't cure the reverse problem and will be only a waste of time, just like any other electrical idea.

Do you think it would be a better idea to return the EPC solenoid and get a new wiring harness instead? I agree it's old and have read some suggestions in the forum and other webpages about replacing it. I will inspect the TPS with an ohmmeter to see if the readings have any jumps and will definitely replace the VSS ASAP (this one needs to be changed anyway). That might fix the harsh shifting problem; I will get it scanned either way, I only need to find a shop close to where I currently am. The guy who fixed the transmission has a scanner but lives in another city.

I would like to ask what do you think about the pictures? Those were not taken by me, but look pretty much the same as mine did.

Thanks,

Oscar.

grog11
06-22-2011, 07:59 PM
I would hold off on installing the epc solenoid. Diagnostic scan will tell what has failed in each wiring loop. If for instance the 1-2 shift solenoid shows defective with scan codes, the actual single wire in the internal harness could be faulty to it and the solenoid actually operating correctly if it had the voltage input.Usually if there is an electrical issue, all the solenoids should be replaced, and a new wire harness installed. Who wants to go back into the transmission and repair another problem where they were already into. Common sense with old parts in one spot.One item fails the rest are on their way, and they were all installed the same time right?. That way you now know that everything will last a while.

The internal fluid pan photo shows minimum debris, and that the fluid maintenance is being serviced in a timely fashion in this vehicle.

The ATF fluid looks dark in color, which can be a result from overheating abuse, or a cooling system issue.( No auxiliary cooler installed, torque converter overheating from no lockup) Not knowing the change interval mileage, its hard to say. The ford ax4s, and ax4n, and 4f50n front wheel transaxle units do tend to darken the fluids prematurely, even with synthetic atf fluids.Its not uncommon to have a windstar with 12,000 miles on the fluid and it looks that color. This does not necessarily mean the fluid is bad, its just something to be aware of. Additives do get used up in the atf fluid quicker on the ford models mentioned above than some other models and make vehicles.These are good transmissions, but do require more maintenance than what other models can get away with. I blame this on minimal fluid cooling fin design and lack of additional coolers.
Back when you could get heavy duty dual, or triple core radiators, on larger vehicles, you hardly ever heard of transmission heat failure related issues as often.

They say that if every car manufacturer put an additional trans, oil cooler on new vehicles that they were selling, that it would put 85% of all transmission repair shops out of business.This I do believe.

olopezm
06-22-2011, 08:20 PM
Ok, I just came home from the transmission shop.

They scanned it and ran the diagnostic routines contained in the scanner and nothing showed up. No engine nor transmission codes. The only thing the guy noticed when looking at the PID's was the TCILFault = YES. I don't know what this means. I'll google it; but the guy said that would be a problem with the VSS (I didn't mention anything about it) and needs to be replaced. Other than that the guy said it was fine.

I guess those were $12 bucks well spent. I think I can rest at night...

About the previous post. I was really scared when I saw the dark fluid pumping out of the hose, I was in panic and expecting the pan to be full of debris and metallic shavings. When I found out there were none I was so happy that I nearly stepped on the auxiliary pan where all the fluid dripped on LOL.

Since last monday (when the O/d light came on) there have been no problems at all.

Oscar.

olopezm
06-23-2011, 10:38 PM
A quick update.

Reverse hasn't acted up again, I don't know why. The only different thing is the weather temps have been lower these days I believe that would point to an old harness or could it be a failing pump?

I will take care of the vss, unfortunately shops don't have it in stock, I'm getting tired of the lack of power and crappy shifting after driving for a while.

Oscar.

olopezm
06-24-2011, 04:18 PM
Today the CEL came on, I had it scanned and the result was:

P0720 - Insufficient Input from OSS Sensor

I looked up the code in the forum and is referred to the OSS or Turbine shaft Speed Sensor malfunction which is located at the driver side of the transmission but searching other places they refer to the VSS located at the one located at the passenger side close to the cat converter.

Now that made me so confused I looked up the same information in the Mitchell On Demand discs I have and ended up being even more confused.

I have two part numbers:
f1dz 7m101 a .- this one sits at the driver side of the tranny, and it is the TSS (OSS?)
xf2z 7h103 aa.- the one that sits close to the cat, the one I ordered at the dealer and the one referred as VSS (OSS too?)

Here in the forum the confution seems to be the same, I've seen different posts with the same problem!!! Some people say the OSS will measure engine RPM's and some other posters say it will measure vehicle speed :runaround:

I will appreciate any help provided,

Oscar.

UPDATE

Ok after reading a little I found out in the ford workshop manual the removal procedure for the OSS. IT IS THE ONE WITH THE 7H103 PART NUMBER for future reference.

grog11
06-24-2011, 10:04 PM
OSS= Output Shaft Sensor, (the vehicle speed shaft that goes to the tire axle) VSS would be the same in essence measuring the vehicle speed that remains unchanged as it goes to the drive axle and tire. ( Think Speedometer here) The output shaft speed (OSS) sensor is a magnetic pickup, located at the output shaft ring gear, that send a signal to the powertrain control module (PCM) to indicate transmission output speed. The OSS is used for torque converter clutch control, speed scheduling and to determine electronic pressure control.


TSS= Turbine Shaft Speed Sensor ( Transmission internal main shaft speed) This sensor is a magnetic pickup that sends a signal to the powertrain control module (PCM) that indicates transaxle turbine shaft input speed. The turbine shaft speed (TSS) sensor provides converter turbine speed information for torque converter clutch (TCC) strategy. Also used in determining static EPC pressure settings.

olopezm
06-25-2011, 07:16 PM
Thanks again man!

I already ordered the new sensor (PN:7h103) from the dealer, it should be arriving on monday, tomorrow I'm planning to start the disassembly in order to install the new sensor ASAP on monday.

Today I took the van for a quick drive and man that thing shifts funny with the p0720 dtc!!! it's like it slips, it engages, upshifts and downshitfs all at the same time! LOL.

Again, the reverse did not act up; it's been six days in a row without reverse problems. Have no idea about it... The dealer has one harness in stock at $87 dlls I really hope I don't need it. So far I'm confident I won't and the VSS will take care of the forward driving problems, I wish this would be the case for the reverse but we know that's not going to happen...

Regards,

Oscar.

olopezm
06-28-2011, 08:05 PM
So the new VSS is in. I've been driving it two days and it definitely feels better but the small push when coming to a stop can still be felt.

Reverse hasn't acted up again, it is strange and I've been wondering if a mechanical engine problem would cause the reverse to slam in and out and the kind of behavior I've been experiencing. I ask this because the RPM's would drop close to 500 the last time it acted up (can actually be seen in the video I uploaded before) and before that it was nearly the same, perhaps even lower RPM's and reverse kept slamming in and out repeatedly.

I've been thinking this during the last weekend and would make sense, since the PCM is working in open loop when the engine is cold and getting the readings from the ECT, van runs great and has lots of power with cold engine. Once engine reaching normal temperature it will get into closed loop mode and get the readings from the MAF (I got a crappy one a year ago from autozone, bad idea), this is the moment when the "push from behind" can be felt when coming to a stop, van seems to perform worse and was when reverse acted up.

I ran some Berryman's B12 Chemtool in the gas tank last week and that seemed to help with a slight shaking when idling at a red light, it would almost be the same time the reverse stopped having problems...

Thanks in advance,

Oscar.

olopezm
06-30-2011, 07:04 PM
Sixth post in a row! LOL

Today reverse acted up again, I did the volume test and it took about 20 seconds to pump a quart out of the line.

When I started to reverse into my garage I noticed a loud howling noise, I heard it before but I was thinking it could have been the brakes. Now I'm leaning towards it's not and happens for about two seconds when the vehicle starts to move and only when reverse acts up. Could I have a bad torque converter or a pump going bad?

Oscar.

grog11
06-30-2011, 08:59 PM
20 seconds per qt. cooling flow seems ok. The oil pump is working, and this is at idle speed, it increases with rpms.

I don't know Oscar, I would steer my efforts toward the valve body and the reverse accumulator piston that is located behind the valve body. An accumulators purpose is to cushion fast fluid psi flow, similar to a shock absorbers function..By the way reverse gear has the highest line psi pressure of the transmission, when selected. If the accumulator piston sticks, there is no buffer for soft engagement of the gear.Sound like your issue with the slam bang reverse?

The transmission whine, could be the converter bearings, or pump shaft bearing making that noise.

olopezm
07-01-2011, 10:52 AM
Thanks man!


I would steer my efforts toward the valve body and the reverse accumulator piston that is located behind the valve body. An accumulators purpose is to cushion fast fluid psi flow, similar to a shock absorbers function..By the way reverse gear has the highest line psi pressure of the transmission, when selected. If the accumulator piston sticks, there is no buffer for soft engagement of the gear.Sound like your issue with the slam bang reverse?

I guess Ill take it apart, I only need to fix some problems with my Lincoln and I'll throw the windstar into storage until I fix it (there is always something that needs to be fixed :banghead:. Another user suggested replacing the pistons since they are bonded assemblies, what would you say about it? Just go for it?, I'm having a delayed engagement in when shifting from N to any forward gear, I guess that could be a bleeding piston too, right?.

In case the springs are ok, would I need to replace them too?

The only thing that keeps me thinking is why it seems to get stuck only after long drives :confused: Expansion because of the heat?


The transmission whine, could be the converter bearings, or pump shaft bearing making that noise.

Here we go again... :banghead: LOL. I guess for that I would need to get the whole transmission out isn't it? I'll see if I can get to record a video of the sound, it's hard because it doesn't happens every time the reverse acts up and lately reverse hasn't acted up that much.

I remember reading somewhere the marks on the dipstick weren't very accurate and there was some TSB mentioning to aim a bit higher than the full mark on the dipstick, is that true?

Regards,

Oscar.

grog11
07-01-2011, 01:53 PM
You can remove the valve body and oil pump unit without dropping the entire transmission. The engine subframe left side does need to be loosened and dropped a little to get to the side cover bolts. so the valve body can be removed, and worked on, the solenoids and wire harness are also on that assembly. Accumulator pistons are directly behind the valve body on the chain cover. These can also be accessed, in vehicle repair. Work from behind the left front tire, removing inner wheel well cover, and top engine bay. Cramped quarters but much better than a full transmission drop time.

I would suggest replacing all valve body springs, and clips while doing the repair, and do get any upgraded kit, along with all the upgraded hard parts available. Check out some online trans. part suppliers and maybe phone them for support part suggestions. You will need your transmission tag number and vehicle vin #/ yr.build date to supply them with information. They want your business and will help.There are a few different valve bodies for the ax4s,ax4n trans. and you want the right gaskets and parts.

I am not aware of any tsb for fluid level topping, but I always fill to the top line. Some people have said this has helped stop some of their shift issues, I don't know.

olopezm
07-01-2011, 05:48 PM
Thanks man, I'll see what can I do about the upgraded parts because it is a bit hard to get them here in Mexico specially when shops want to sell what they want instead of what they are asked... (last time a guy wanted me to buy the mechanical VSS when I clearly said I needed the magnetic type). It sucks not to have those big online stores you guys have over there.

I might ask the dealer, but I know that's going to cost me an eye!, and will compare prices between the dealer and an online quote from the US with international shipping and custom taxes.

I only need to fix the other car first so I can definitely park the windstar and take it apart. I'll see if I can find that TSB I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere.

Oh, by the way, I can cross out the howling. It is coming from the front brakes! That gives me some peace of mind...

One final question, do you have any prefered parts store to get the upgraded kit from? by hard parts you mean the pistons, correct?.

Oscar.

grog11
07-02-2011, 01:06 AM
Try these guys, I have used them before and they are excellent.
Check out the accumulator, Servo section, and the sonnax items.

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=2&Category_Code=AXOD

Email them for assistance
sales@bulkpart.com

olopezm
07-05-2011, 07:04 PM
Thanks man!

I will give it a try when "the beast" has been finally parked LOL. Yesterday I was reversing again and the reverse slammed in just once, I shifted to neutral and back to reverse and the slamming was gone. I'll make sure to post a resolution to this problem when possible.

Oscar.

olopezm
07-09-2011, 04:28 PM
Another quick update after some time without any problems.

Last monday I noticed the van surges from 1000 to 1500 RPM's exactly at 30 Km/h everytime, EVEN WHEN IN NEUTRAL. I decided to disconnect the MAF to see if it was causing the engine to surge but the result was the same, it didn't change anything other than having the CEL on and shifting was harsh due to increased pressure. I reconnected the MAF and CEL hasn't turned off, I think it's taking too long but I guess I still haven't completed the necessary cycles to erase the fault code.

Today the transmission slammed in into gear after I was waiting at a red light, when it finally changed to green and I started to accelerate I felt a sudden push (kinda hard, just like when it slams in into reverse) and after a few blocks I had to turn to the right so I started to brake, turned right and when I stepped back on the gas pedal I felt the gear slamming in again. This is the first time it happens when driving forward. When I finally arrived home and reversed into my garage the reverse did not act up.

It looks like something is definitely causing the pressure to go too high when it shouldn't.

What could cause this surging?. Could it be the same thing causing the pressure to go too high?.

Oscar.

imnprsd
08-19-2012, 05:20 AM
SO WHAT’S THE CONCLUSION?
My 2000 Windstar (3.8L) with 80,000 miles has these same problems:
Problem #1) History of “clunking” into to reverse 25% of the time.
Problem #2) All of sudden, the reverse will not engage until I rev-up the engine to 2,500RPM and then it slowly engages and reverses the car. However, it only has enough force to move the car on level ground and if I rev the motor it feel like something is “slipping inside.”
These symptoms should allow an expert transmission person to deduce my problem(s) as one of the following, but which one is it?
A) There is a crack in the reverse piston. (I understand you can repair this without dropping the transmission, by removing the valve body. Is this true?)
B) The reverse clutch is bad. Question: Is there a reverse clutch? (Solution ==> Overhaul required?)
C) There is a reverse band that his slipping or failed. Is there a reverse band? (Solution ==> Overhaul required?)

Note: I used 3/4 can of Seafoam and then drained the pan fluid, but didn’t change the filter…I then added Rislone Transmission Stop Slop and 3 qts of fluid...and now the tranny works great (even better than before) in all forward gears, but still no change in the reverse gear.

So I would really appreciate knowing what is the least expensive way to fix this reverse problem, because this car is only worth $1,500 with the transmission working properly…and it’s a shame to overhaul the entire tranny just because the reverse is not working.

Thank you everyone for your posts so I can summarize this problem. But I need to ask again, what's the conclusion other people came to when their reverse failed like mine has?

olopezm
08-19-2012, 07:31 PM
Hi, I'm sorry but I have nothing else to comment. I still have the problem and have no idea what's causing it.

The original problem has come to the point where the RPM's will drop enough to cause the battery light on the dashboard to come on as reverse engages. It's pretty weird because it will happen only when I get home and into the garage.

I'm thinking the IAC valve on mine might be weak and going bad. I still believe it's pretty weird for it to happen only when I get home (???).

I really hope you find the answer to your problem. There are great experienced guys here!

Oscar.

Windstartled
08-19-2012, 07:49 PM
So I would really appreciate knowing what is the least expensive way to fix this reverse problem, because this car is only worth $1,500 with the transmission working properly…and it’s a shame to overhaul the entire tranny just because the reverse is not working.

It's what it's worth to you that matters, if you intend to keep driving it for a few years then its market value is irrelevant. Most of us here keep ageing vans because they are practical enough to us to be worth some of the expenses that come with driving older vehicles. Also I guess there is some measure of pride (or stubbornness) that comes with finding cheaper solutions than most people would.

The least expensive way to fix a transmission is to purchase a used tranny from a salvage yard and install it yourself, unfortunately that's also the hardest way. Next best thing is to purchase that same transmission from the salvage yard and have it installed by an independent mechanic that you trust. I had it done on my previous van (a Grand Caravan), it's a 4-hour job for a well equipped shop, and labor costs amounted to $224 ($56/h) plus tax, which is very reasonable, plus the $200 I had paid for the tranny itself.

One positive aspect of driving a turn-of-the-century Windstar is that, due to its popularity, there is an ample supply of used parts available for it from various sources. I wish it was the same for my Bimmer :(

scubacat
08-20-2012, 08:08 PM
and labor costs amounted to $224 ($56/h) plus tax,

Sorry, I really don't mean to hijack this thread but where is this $56/hour deal! Do you have a time machine to go back to 1995 and get the work done? Just wondering! I haven't seen less than $100/hr in quite some time.

As to this issue, I'm wondering if maybe one of the IMRCs is stuck open. The RPMs spiking sound suspicious although this is just a wild guess from someone who knows very little about diagnosing transmission issues. (My last tranny "issue" was a busted motor mount. :rolleyes:)

My local transmission shop doesn't charge for a diagnosis; might be worth having one done even for $100 or so just to get a better handle on the root cause of this.

yenyao
08-21-2012, 05:07 AM
Hi, I am also wondering if anyone knows about this problem? I got the same problem when I put the car in reverse. It feels like is loosing power. As well as driving foward, the slam feeling occure when I am on uphill or when I am driving around 80KM/H going 100KM/H. I can usually make the slamming go away or turn it down by pushing the accelarator harder.
I ask the shop and they say it could be trasmission problem, then I ask dealer, they say they need to run a $150 test to try to find out what's the problem, but no guarranty they will find any, since non of the error code has come out.
Thanks

olopezm
08-22-2012, 12:08 PM
Hi, I am also wondering if anyone knows about this problem? I got the same problem when I put the car in reverse. It feels like is loosing power. As well as driving foward, the slam feeling occure when I am on uphill or when I am driving around 80KM/H going 100KM/H. I can usually make the slamming go away or turn it down by pushing the accelarator harder.
I ask the shop and they say it could be trasmission problem, then I ask dealer, they say they need to run a $150 test to try to find out what's the problem, but no guarranty they will find any, since non of the error code has come out.
Thanks

Hi yenyao,

Welcome to the forum!

If you haven't performed any diagnostic procedures, I would advise you to first take a look at your MAF sensor; if it's dirty it can cause some drivability problems such as loss of power. The PCM uses it to control transmission fluid pressure and shifting.

Oscar.

12Ounce
08-22-2012, 12:58 PM
Another way to approach this problem is to buy a Ford reman ... I spent less than $1700 some years ago for my '99's reman tranny ... the reman came full of fresh fluid and with all new electrics ... was warrantied 75k miles (now warrantied 100k miles). I dropped the subframe with tranny and engine block intact ... replaced the tranny, raised the sub-frame back in place.

This was all 125k miles ago, and the tranny is still shifting just fine.

olopezm
08-22-2012, 05:53 PM
In case you end up needing a full replacement, you should do as 12Ounce says, go to the dealer for a quote; I did about a month ago and they quoted me with ~$1550 for a reman transmission WITH LABOR.

I say it's a great price; when I get this thing running and if the tranny keeps acting up, I might consider that option, specially if I don't have to deal with the replacement process. Would be the only reason to take it to a mechanic/dealer.

Oscar.

yenyao
08-23-2012, 04:27 AM
Thanks oscar. I will give it a try to clean the MAF sensor. one question, is this sensor the one that's located in the same tube as air filter ?

olopezm
08-23-2012, 06:46 PM
Thanks oscar. I will give it a try to clean the MAF sensor. one question, is this sensor the one that's located in the same tube as air filter ?

That's correct. Another thing you might want to try in case you haven't is to replace the ENTIRE transmission fluid and filter. When fluid started to get old in mine, switching from P or N to any other gear would give a harsh engagement (not clunking or slamming but definitely it wasn't soft).

Oscar.

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