Which is the better car: the camaro or the mustang? I like the mustang, but I am a ford guy.

Originally posted by stangvette1
Which is the better car: the camaro or the mustang? I like the mustang, but I am a ford guy.

How about...both suck. Buying a V-6 in either of these cars is cheating your ego. I wouldn't get caught dead driving either, but I would take the Camaro's looks over the Stang.

WELL SAID
How about...both suck. Buying a V-6 in either of these cars is cheating your ego. I wouldn't get caught dead driving either, but I would take the Camaro's looks over the Stang.

me and Picks VQ's will eat them both. the only american v6 i like is out of the buick regal with the grand national package. they haven't made them for over 15 years.

Originally posted by Paonessa
me and Picks VQ's will eat them both.

Exactly.;)

Neither the Mustang V6 is a rental fleet managers favourite and the Camaro has one of the worst V6's ever. Niether car has anything going for it

The v6 is the camaro is the same standard 3800 series engine that the GP GT, Regal, Bonne, Impala, and MC have. 200hp/225ish tq.

What I would do if I were you, is buy the camaro/firebird, find a rear-wrecked GTP, and swap the engine in. then you have a very moddable engine, and rwd, and no one would suspect that engine in there. :D

i agree with everyone else i wouldn't be caught dead in a v6 mustang or camaro, i respect the v8 versions of it(although the only mustang i really respect is the bullitt and the cobra, not to mention the saleen...) but that's about it...

Originally posted by ChaosStarter
The v6 is the camaro is the same standard 3800 series engine that the GP GT, Regal, Bonne, Impala, and MC have. 200hp/225ish tq.

What I would do if I were you, is buy the camaro/firebird, find a rear-wrecked GTP, and swap the engine in. then you have a very moddable engine, and rwd, and no one would suspect that engine in there. :D
then you'd have a decent engine in a big ass heavy car and all your hard work would be for nil.


and strider i agree fords v8 mustangs are respectable especially '99 and later but i think saleens go above and beyond what Ford alone can do. i barely even consider them mustangs, they're way nicer

first u cant put a front wheel drive engine in a rear whell drive car and expect it to still be rwd.
second i garentee my 200 v-6 camaro stock would whoop ur nissan
ive whooped plenty and get your hp ratios right my v-6 wrhp on a dyno was 230
third why would u use a four door car for speed you want to know speed drive a 9 sec car lingfelter corvette which is american made. 0-60mph 2 sec.
fourth a 3.4 liter camaro could beat a mustang gt's little hooves off.

the 3800 camaro can even beat the 3.8l mustang, how would it beat the v8 version? no camaro is faster than a mustang, the v6 mustang beats the v6 camaro, the mustang cobra 2003 whoops on the z28 and the ss......sorry to tell you that.

Originally posted by Strider Negro
i agree with everyone else i wouldn't be caught dead in a v6 mustang or camaro, i respect the v8 versions of it(although the only mustang i really respect is the bullitt and the cobra, not to mention the saleen...) but that's about it...

Do you like the new Mach I? I love the mach, if you have ever test drove or heard one it's love at first site. GT's blow, it's the worst car for the money ever. I can't believe people still buy GT's when the mach is only 4K more, and look what you get! WAY BETTER. Since it has the old Cobra engine making 305 HP it's no slouch in speed either. I watched I guy leave a parking lot and he just gave like half throttle and spun the thing sideways burning rubber for like 100 feet. And he wasn't even REALLY trying. Now thats sweet, and the stock exhaust is sweet too. The GT's exhaust you can't even hear, the mach's hurts your ears! And it sounds much cleaner than the GT too probably cuz of the 4 valves per cylinder and 4 BBL TB.

Originally posted by camarogod

second i garentee my 200 v-6 camaro stock would whoop ur nissan


No you wouldn't. The VQ35 Maxima would eat your ancient little beater- it even gives the Z28 an allright run for it's money- let's not forget just how much greater a V6 the VQ is compared to the Camaro's one.


Pull your head out of your ass- the rental company wants back thier Catagory H Sports Car- get a V8, a VQ or a Vesectomy- either is allright with me.

Originally posted by camarogod
a 3.4 liter camaro could beat a mustang gt's little hooves off.

Please slap yourself in the face, as I cannot go through the computer and do it myself:slap:

You actually think that the 3.4 or 3.8 litre V6 stock, can beat the 4.6litre V8 mustang GT stock? Ive got a 3800 series engine in my car and Im not exactly that naive. I know exactly what your problem is my friend
you = :newbie:

The camaro 3.4 liter v6 would get OWNED by the mustang 3.8 liter v6. The mustang produces 195 hp compared to the 160 in the 3.4 camaro. Plus the mustang is lighter. The 3.4 camaro won't come close to a GT!

Originally posted by Jimster


No you wouldn't. The VQ35 Maxima would eat your ancient little beater- it even gives the Z28 an allright run for it's money- let's not forget just how much greater a V6 the VQ is compared to the Camaro's one.


Pull your head out of your ass- the rental company wants back thier Catagory H Sports Car- get a V8, a VQ or a Vesectomy- either is allright with me.

hell yeah:bigthumb:
my old vq30 95 maxima could beat a v6 stang or camaro

hahaha all those V6 cars were designed for girls who buys the cars only for the looks, and not for the performance. the 3.8 liter cars are totally gutless. my friends 5 speed accord LX coupe can take a V6 stang. and a 6 speed maxima will rape your over weight under powered camaros and mustangs. a 6 speed max can do 0-60 in 6.3 second can dash the 1/4 mile in 14.7-9 seconds. those max's that you beat were probrably automatic max's casue those i admit are slow as hell. but the 3.5 v6's. even though i can beat them, it still wouldn't be that easy for me.

Originally posted by stangvette1
The camaro 3.4 liter v6 would get OWNED by the mustang 3.8 liter v6. The mustang produces 195 hp compared to the 160 in the 3.4 camaro. Plus the mustang is lighter. The 3.4 camaro won't come close to a GT!

:bigthumb: thank you.

Originally posted by TatII
the 3.8 liter cars are totally gutless. my friends 5 speed accord LX coupe can take a V6 stang.

Yeah from 96-99 they only had 160 HP-not that hard to beat. However, starting in 2000 they upped it to 200 HP, a big jump. The 2000+ V6 stangs are twice as fast as a 96-99.

Whoa, there are alot of misinformed people in this thread. I'm new here and I own a 99 v6 camaro with a borla catback exhaust, slp cold air intake, 3.73s gearing and a few other mods. I run 14s all day.
And running 14s certainly keeps pace if not surpasses mustang gts. Also the gearing will let me smoke a gt by quite a few car lengths to at least 40 mph. Yes I do realize a fully modded GT vs. a fully modded V6 Camaro gt wins. I'm just exemplifying the potential. Also, a GT has never, ever compared to a z28 or a trans am. other than the obvious hp differences (260 vs. 310. The z28 comes with a better exhaust and gearing that the stock gt. It's really not a comparison. Stock late model z28s and trans ams run 5 flat ALL DAY. GTs are lucky to hit 5s.


Base V6 Mustang vs. Base V6 Camaro vs. Base V6 Firebird

The base V6 Mustang is a 3.8 liter motor rated at 193hp and 225ft-lbs of torque. The Camaro and Firebird V6 is also a 3.8 liter rated at 200hp and 225ft-lbs.

The Mustang V6 should help it to 60 in less than 9seconds and will run it through the 1/4 mile in less than 17 seconds. The GM engine will send the Firebird and Camaro twins to 60 in about 7.4 seconds and will click the 1/4 mile traps at around 15.7 seconds. 15.7 secs without the y87 sport package

Mustang GT vs. Camaro Z28 vs. Firebird V8

The Mustang GT steps up the powerplant to a V8 engine displacing 4.6 liters and topping the engine with 'fancier' heads than the Camaro or Firebird. It puts out 260hp and 302ft-lbs of torque, compared to the GM LS1 powerplant (5.7 liters) putting out 310hp and 335ft-lbs of torque.

To make things a little worse here, chassis dyno measurements (measures true rear wheel hp - or how much is hitting the pavement) have shown that Chevrolet and Pontiac are actually underrating the LS1's power figures while Ford's motor actually puts out slightly less than it should.

Performance figures for these levels are in the mid 5 to high second range 0-60 for the GT and low 5 second range for the Z28 and Firebird V8 (or Trans Am). The quarter mile goes by in the low 14 second range for the GT while the GM twins get through it in the mid 13 second area (quite a few car lengths at that speed).

Mustang Cobra vs. Camaro SS vs. Firebird WS6

Stepping up a level in price and performance brings the GM LS1 power figures to 325hp and 345ft-lbs of torque. The Mustang Cobra comes in with a 4.6-liter 4-valve tumble-port V-8. The engine produces 320 horsepower at 6000 rpm and 317 lbs.-ft. of torque at 4750 rpm.

Real world performance got faster by a tenth or two for all three models, with the GM cars going 0-60 in 5 seconds flat (many magazines and outside tests saw high 4 second 0-60 times) and low 13 second quarter mile times. The Cobra hovered around mid 5 seconds for 0-60 and barely cracked into the 13's in the quarter mile (13.9 @ 100mph).

To semi-conclude this chapter, it seems as if the GM cars are a step ahead of the Ford in each match. Ford has taken the high road of technology in their engine, but GM has continued to run more cubic inches of displacement with their 'old-school' pushrod LS1 engine. Since the pricing of these cars is somewhat similar (the Mustangs actually run a bit more), I would have to go with the Camaro Z28 for the best out of all of them, with the Pontiac WS6 (for styling reasons) close behind. If you are looking for performance, the LS1 cars from GM are hard to beat (aren't they Mr. Mustang?).

Another Level? Mustang Cobra R vs. Corvette Z06

Ford's Special Vehicle Team unveiled a new car aimed directly at the Corvette and Viper (according to an SVT spokesman). The Cobra R is a stripped (no a/c, no back seat, no radio) with a bigger, 5.4 liter motor pumping out 385hp and 385ft-lbs of torque. It will run from 0-60 in the mid 4 second range and clear the 1/4 mile in 12.9 seconds @ 110 mph.

Unfortunately for Ford, Chevrolet has produced the quickest Corvette ever (yes, quicker than the ZR1). The Z06 uses a new LS6 5.7 liter engine producing the exact same hp and torque figures as the Cobra R but pulling in much better performance numbers - 0-60 in 4 seconds flat and 1/4 mile in 12.6 seconds @ 114 mph. It also does this with climate control and a very nice radio :)

It baffles me to see the Mustang consistently outselling GM's cars which are clearly out-powering the Fords at every level. I'm not sure why the Mustang has come on as such a high seller. At any rate, on any level I would choose the GM product (either Camaro, Firebird, or Trans Am - based on your taste in looks) - they are better built, faster, and (my opinion) better looking.




Here's some info for the misinformed
the 3800 Series II V-6 came out in later models of 1995. Not 2000, where did you get that from?

Secondly, it has been proven that a v6 camaro can whoop a v6 stang. Other than the obvious horsepower differences.
200hp and 225 lb/tq at the flywheel vs. 190 hp and 220lb/tq? could be wrong on the stang torque. I have articles upon articles of stock camaros running low 15s stock. Here's one
http://media.firebirdv6.com/unsunghero.html
it shows runs off a 98 camaro. I know for a fact that v6 stangs run 16-17s stock, and I also know that with an exhaust, they perk to life because they do suffer from a huge bottleneck.

and I have more info where that come from...


1999 V6 camaro, 3.73 LSD, SLP CAI, M5, removed maf screen, Borla Catback
Smokin' GT's all day
1/4=14.43

also, 3.4L camaro wouldn't hold anything to a 4.6l gt:eek7:

3.8s gutless? It's one of the most reliable engines ever built! Impala's, monte carlos, gp, regals, centuries, bonnevilles. All reliable cars. I have never seen any of these cars torn to shit. (maybe older buicks). Also think of the TTA's and Grand Nationals. An 89 Turbo Trans Am ran 13s stock! And guess, what, it had a 3.8:biggrin2:

A response to the maxima post. How much is a brand new maxima? 25k-30k?

You can get a decked out camaro for up to 10k less with the same kind of warranty. And a very well known and trust 3.8. Well known in the sense that it has been around for such a long time that there are countless mods for it.

I wouldn't pay an extra 10k for a maxima
they're uuuggggglllly
:eek:

maximas do not give z28s a run for their money
13 sec. 1/4 mile vs. 14.7 1/4 mile = 10 - 20 car lengths

:lol:

yojcbeast, maybe you could say that all in one post?

Also, your camaro is has mods, we are talking stock to stock.

stock to stock, camaros still wins. Also, camaros respond better to my mods than mustangs do :tongue:

Originally posted by yojcbeast

Here's some info for the misinformed
the 3800 Series II V-6 came out in later models of 1995. Not 2000, where did you get that from?



I was talking about the mustang-not the GM cars. In 94-95, the V6 only had 145 HP. 96-99 had 160 HP. 00+ have 190.

Originally posted by yojcbeast
maximas do not give z28s a run for their money
13 sec. 1/4 mile vs. 14.7 1/4 mile = 10 - 20 car lengths

:lol:

Camaro: 13.9 1/4, 0-60 in 5.5
Maxima: 14.7 1/4, 0-60 in 5.9

If the Camaro was auto and the Maxima manual, I could see this as being an interesting race. Never underestimate the power of a VQ. I have seen them pull on f-bodies before. I personally have pulled on a '98 Z28 in my 2002 Maxima.

Originally posted by yojcbeast
A response to the maxima post. How much is a brand new maxima? 25k-30k?

You can get a decked out camaro for up to 10k less with the same kind of warranty. And a very well known and trust 3.8. Well known in the sense that it has been around for such a long time that there are countless mods for it.

I wouldn't pay an extra 10k for a maxima
they're uuuggggglllly
:eek:

my last maxima went 165,000 miles and was still running strong when i traded it in for my new one. let's see any chevy or pontiac go that long without at least one rebuild if not more. you may pay more up front but in the long run my maxima cost me nil for all the fun i got out of it. and i have never had someon look at my car and say "oh, it's only the six cylinder" i'll bet you have.

Originally posted by Paonessa


my last maxima went 165,000 miles and was still running strong when i traded it in for my new one. let's see any chevy or pontiac go that long without at least one rebuild if not more.

umm, yeah. My dad's 85 chevy G30 van has 260K on the truck, 180K on the second engine. The first engine blew because it was overheated severely. This 350 has 180K and is still going strong, not to mention it's a 1 ton work van that we carry some heavy things with every now and then. Hows that? BTW this engine with 180K has been overheated twice because of faulty thermostats, and the fact that my dad doesn't pay attention to the gauges other than the speedo. So it's been to approx. 260 degrees twice. Carb is messed up(quadrajunk) and the radiator leaks like a siv - have to put a gallon in it every day. HAHA but engine still runs good.

no i mean it ran well, and problem free. easy as change oil, fill with gas, drive car. you're pouring in a gallon of anti-freeze daily and the radiator leaks causing the car to overheat. that is not exemplory of running well to me. not to mention the first engine started overheatig and eventually seized at half the mileage i got out of the only engine in my first maxima and your second engine is doing the same shit and your carbeurator leaks. who's side are you on anyway? (J/k)

Huh? The radiator is not the reason it overheated, it was faulty thermostats and my dad not watching the gauges. The leaks are just recent(last couple months) and are being fixed soon. So it's the original radiator with 260K+ miles on it, thats pretty good in my book. You know how much water that thing has cooled over 18 years?

The mustang can compete with GM at every level:
mustang v6 vs. camaro v6 vs. firebird v6
mustang mach1 vs. camaro ss vs. transam
cobra r vs corvette C5
03 Cobra vs. corvette Z06
( The mustang gt and the camaro Z28 are insignificant to this comparison.)
Chevy doesn't dominate Ford in any of these categories. The mustang v6 will take the v6 firebird and the v6 camaro (WEIGHT), the mach1 will hold its ground versus the transam and camaro ss, the cobra r will take the C5, and the 2003 cobra will hang with the Z06 all day long. Clearly Chevy is NOT more powerful than Ford.

P.S. Ford has another fast car besides the mustang. It's called the Ford GT and it will blow all GM vehicles out of the water!:smile:

I have a v6 stang with at least 350hp, I would definitely pick the stang.

Originally posted by primitivefuture
I have a v6 stang with at least 350hp, I would definitely pick the stang.



till you post mods i'll do this......:bs:

Originally posted by primitivefuture
I have a v6 stang with at least 350hp, I would definitely pick the stang.
i wanna see a dyno chart or a track slip

Originally posted by Paonessa

i wanna see a dyno chart or a track slip

YUP!:iagree:

Lotta misinformed people in here:eek7:

First, auto to auto the V-6 Camaro would win. Ford still does not know how to build a decent auto. Manual to manual it's a drivers race. I know having raced plenty of Mustangs both auto and manual. Second, to the person who said his Maxima 6 spd. would hang with a Z28, what are you smoking? You run high 14s to MAYBE mid 14s versus a z's low 13's consistantly. Thats an awful lot of car lenghts in the quarter mile. It's not even close. You have what, 245hp to a Z28's 310 advertised hp, which is very decieving as they dyno 300-315 to the wheels, which translates to 350 at the flywheel. 245 hp versus 350? Not a chance in hell. Go race one if you are still not convinced. And as for the same person insulting Camaro's and Mustang's, dude you drive a Maxima.:smile: Enough said. Neither car is fast, but they are fun to drive if they have a stick and will last if taken care of. And what else can you buy that is only a year old and has less than 8k on the odo and is fun to drive for less than $14,000.

Originally posted by Tekone
Lotta misinformed people in here:eek7:

First, auto to auto the V-6 Camaro would win. Ford still does not know how to build a decent auto. Manual to manual it's a drivers race. I know having raced plenty of Mustangs both auto and manual. Second, to the person who said his Maxima 6 spd. would hang with a Z28, what are you smoking? You run high 14s to MAYBE mid 14s versus a z's low 13's consistantly. Thats an awful lot of car lenghts in the quarter mile. It's not even close. You have what, 245hp to a Z28's 310 advertised hp, which is very decieving as they dyno 300-315 to the wheels, which translates to 350 at the flywheel. 245 hp versus 350? Not a chance in hell. Go race one if you are still not convinced. And as for the same person insulting Camaro's and Mustang's, dude you drive a Maxima. Enough said.:biggrin: Neither car is fast, but they are fun to drive if they have a stick and will last if taken care of. And what else can you buy that is only a year old and has less than 8k on the odo and is fun to drive for less than $14,000.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
My friend, you have no idea what you are talking about. First of all, the Z28 doesn't run 350 horses, you pulled that stat out of your butt. I have never seen that stat before on here or anywhere for that matter. And a 2002 Maxima has 255 horses. So its 255 to 310. Take into account the weight. The Z28 weighs about 200 lbs. more than '02 Maxima SE. Uh-oh....this race is getting closer as the truth unfolds......:wink:

The best official 1/4 time I have seen for a Z28 is 13.8. The best official 1/4 time I have seen for a 6-speed Maxima is 14.7. If the Z28 was auto, and the Maxima 6-speed, I can see that as being a close race. They are .4 seconds apart on 0-60. You can't argue with facts, but I guess you can make them up.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: I have heard about a 6-speed Maxima taking a 2000+ Formula Trans-am.

As for the V-6 Camaro's and Stangs, there has never been one I couldn't tame by two car lengths. They have two of the worst dime-a-dozen V-6's ever built. That is a fact. You cheated yourself out by buying a V-6 'muscle car'. I'd be more than happy to find other's that agree with me.

And what does the "Dude, you drive a Maxima!" comment mean. I can take you and my resale value is a whole lote better. Not to mention one of, if not the best, V-6 engines ever produced is under my hood. Interior is 100 times better than yours. And reliability? I'm laughing right now...:lol:

I don't hate Camaro's, in fact I like them very much,. but your post is senseless.

Originally posted by Pick

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
My friend, you have no idea what you are talking about. First of all, the Z28 doesn't run 350 horses, you pulled that stat out of your butt. I have never seen that stat before on here or anywhere for that matter.


Then you obviously don't know too much about f-bodies if you don't know they are underpowered. How about you take a gander around LS1.com]http://www.ls1.com Check out the member's dyno numbers. They ALL dyno high 290's to 310ish unless there is something wrong with them. Correct for 16-18% drivetrain loss, and you are looking at 350 to 360 hp. 98-00 f-bodies dyno slightly lower (high 290's to low 300's) while 01-02's dyno about 5 to 10 hp more. Do the math. I'm sure I pulled that stat out of my butt.:rolleyes: Try to learn more about what these cars can do before you open your mouth.

If that is not enough proof, look at what they run compared to 4.6 99+ Mustangs. LS1 f-bodies run low 13's with a decent driver. Stick or auto. High 12's are possible with good track prep. and a very good driver. Compare those numbers to those of a Mustang. 99+ Mustangs run low 14's with a decent driver. High 13's are possible with a very good driver and a 5-speed. An auto might break 13's, but would be difficult to do, but possible. So there is about a second difference between a 99+ 4.6 Mustang and a 98+ LS1 f-body, but yet f-bodies run a whole second faster with only 50 hp. more and similar gearing? Hmmm....Nope. They in reality have around 90 hp more. Again, research a bit more before you run your mouth will ya.


And a 2002 Maxima has 255 horses. So its 255 to 310. Take into account the weight. The Z28 weighs about 200 lbs. more than '02 Maxima SE. Uh-oh....this race is getting closer as the truth unfolds......:wink:


Nope, its 255 versus 350ish. Again, if you don't believe me, go race a Z/formula/TA and find out the hard way. The 200 lb. difference does not play too much of a factor when there is that much of a hp. difference between the two cars.



The best official 1/4 time I have seen for a Z28 is 13.8. The best official 1/4 time I have seen for a 6-speed Maxima is 14.7. If the Z28 was auto, and the Maxima 6-speed, I can see that as being a close race. They are .4 seconds apart on 0-60. You can't argue with facts, but I guess you can make them up.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: I have heard about a 6-speed Maxima taking a 2000+ Formula Trans-am.


You like to magazine race don't ya. That 'official' 1/4th mile time you are quoting was done by both Car and Driver and MT on regular roads, not the track. A lil' bit of a difference there. A 6-speed Maxima beating a LS1 T/A. LOL this is getting better all the time. Maybe if the T/A was running on 6 cylinders and was missing first and second gear.


As for the V-6 Camaro's and Stangs, there has never been one I couldn't tame by two car lengths. They have two of the worst dime-a-dozen V-6's ever built. That is a fact. You cheated yourself out by buying a V-6 'muscle car'. I'd be more than happy to find other's that agree with me.


I never said you could not take a V-6 F-body or Stang. You have 45 hp. and a lil' more torque than them. No problem there. I bought my car because the car is in my name and the V-6 version is expensive enough to insure. When you are paying for your college tuition, rent, car, insurance, food, gas ect. you don't have much money to go around. The car is fine for what I do with it. Fun to drive and gets decent gas milage.


And what does the "Dude, you drive a Maxima!" comment mean. I can take you and my resale value is a whole lote better. Not to mention one of, if not the best, V-6 engines ever produced is under my hood. Interior is 100 times better than yours.


The 3.8 V-6 has been around many years, and it's reliability has been proven. Interior looks are subjective. I like my interior. Suits the car fine IMO. And you apparently missed my smile next to that quote.


I don't hate Camaro's, in fact I like them very much,. but your post is senseless.

If you like them so much, go do some more research on them. My post is senseless? Please.:cool:

Originally posted by Tekone

And as for the same person insulting Camaro's and Mustang's, dude you drive a Maxima.:smile: Enough said.
dude you drive a base model v6 camaro. nuf said. if you don't like what he's saying, prove him wrong. who gives a fuck what he drives or what you think about it. i could have gotten 2 POS v6 camaro's for what i got my car for. i didn't for a reason.

hey VETESTANG WHY DONT YOU PUT THAT NEW CRAPPY FORD GT AGAINST THE LIGENFELTER CORVETTE 1/4 9.27 0-60 1.97 NOW WHOS THE WINNER AND FORD WE DONT HAVE TO USE SUPERCHARGERS TO GET HORSEPOWER YOU FORD LOSERS

HEY NISSAN FREAKS YOU WANNA RACE YOU CAN MOD A MAXIMA AND WONT EVEN BEAT A Z28 WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU BEAT A CAMARO Z28 MAYBE AV6 BUT A Z28 COME DONT BEA LIAR NO OFFENSE BUT YOU SOME PRETTY STUPID THINGS LIKE BEATING A CAMARO Z28 IN YOUR MAXIMA WITH A CRAPPY 245HP ENGINE

:loser:no one said they beat a z28.

Originally posted by speeder94
HEY NISSAN FREAKS YOU WANNA RACE YOU CAN MOD A MAXIMA AND WONT EVEN BEAT A Z28 WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU BEAT A CAMARO Z28 MAYBE AV6 BUT A Z28 COME DONT BEA LIAR NO OFFENSE BUT YOU SOME PRETTY STUPID THINGS LIKE BEATING A CAMARO Z28 IN YOUR MAXIMA WITH A CRAPPY 245HP ENGINE

What are you calling crappy moron? The VQ35 is the best V6 in the world- That has been acknowleged time after time- FAR better than any V6 GM is doing thats for sure- to call the VQ35 crappy without any re-inforcment is ignorance

Speedster94, the lingenfelter corvette is twin-turboed for your information! Plus I wasn't comparing aftermarket chevy or ford. i think that you are just jealous that ford was smart enough to add a supercharger and chevy wasn't! Plus don't give Ford crap about using superchargers. Afterall, Mercedes-Benz uses superchargers and porsche uses twin -turbos!!

Originally posted by Tekone


If you like them so much, go do some more research on them. My post is senseless? Please.:cool:

You can't argue with the facts. I posted them, and have proven that it would be a close race.

And as for beating Mustangs and Camaros, I can do that in my 190- horsepoer '96 Maxima, I don't need my 2002.

I'm not going to waste my time going to some wacked redneck Cheverolet site, so if you want to get me an exact link, then I will take a look at it.

If the Z-28 is a claimed 350 horse, shouldn't it be running comparable times to the Corvette? The average dyno I have seen for the 2000+ Z-28 is 302.5 horsepower. That is the dyno # that most frequently occurs.

And I never said I have ever seen a Maxima beat a WS-6 Trans-am. I said I had seen it beat a Formula Trans-am. Maybe you should read up more on the F-bodies.

BTW, don't come on here flaming, newbie. You aren't scoring points with anybody.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by speeder94
YOUR MAXIMA WITH A CRAPPY 245HP ENGINE



:spit: :spit: :spit: :loser: :loser:

Originally posted by Pick



If the Z-28 is a claimed 350 horse, shouldn't it be running comparable times to the Corvette? The average dyno I have seen for the 2000+ Z-28 is 302.5 horsepower. That is the dyno # that most frequently occurs.



well it is pretty much a drivers race between those two cars. also the camaro is heavier than the corvette. also there is a 15% loss of hp from flywheel to the wheels, so 303hp divided by .85 is roughly 356 hp at the flywheel:wink:

Originally posted by Jimster


What are you calling crappy moron? The VQ35 is the best V6 in the world- That has been acknowleged time after time- FAR better than any V6 GM is doing thats for sure- to call the VQ35 crappy without any re-inforcment is ignorance

Yup sure it is...:rolleyes: What makes it FAR better than any V6 GM makes? The 3.8 V6 produced by GM has been out longer, is proven, and is reliable. What more can you ask for? Don't call GM V6's 'crappy' without having some facts to back up your statement.

Originally posted by Pick

You can't argue with the facts. I posted them, and have proven that it would be a close race.


What facts have you posted other than your misinformed and biased opinions? None.


And as for beating Mustangs and Camaros, I can do that in my 190- horsepoer '96 Maxima, I don't need my 2002.


:rolleyes: Where do we get these morons from?
My friend has a 97' Maxima and it does not even come close to beating my car. I have raced him several times. Please stop spouting BS and then trying to back it up with more BS opinions.


I'm not going to waste my time going to some wacked redneck Cheverolet site, so if you want to get me an exact link, then I will take a look at it.


Funny how your true colors start to show finally. In one other thread in this forumn you give props to f-bodies and in another you start dissing them. I already gave you a link. A 'redneck' site? Yup, I guess so since it has over 30,000 members.:rolleyes: You are so stereotypical it makes me laugh.


If the Z-28 is a claimed 350 horse, shouldn't it be running comparable times to the Corvette? The average dyno I have seen for the 2000+ Z-28 is 302.5 horsepower. That is the dyno # that most frequently occurs.


Ding ding ding....we have a winner. LS1 f-bodies DO run comarable time to an LS1 powered Corvette. This is taxing your brain I can see, so I'll put it in Layman's term for you. On average, LS1 f-bodies run low 13's at around 104-106 mph in the 1/4th. On average, LS1 Corvettes run high 12's at just slightly higher mph. Hmm...their times are pretty similar don't ya think for supposedly having a 50 hp difference. The reason the Corvette is faster than f-bodies is it has a slightly different cam (lower LSA to give it hight RPM power I believe) and it has better aerodynamics.


And I never said I have ever seen a Maxima beat a WS-6 Trans-am. I said I had seen it beat a Formula Trans-am. Maybe you should read up more on the F-bodies.


Still a slow one huh? Suprise #2. There is very little to no difference in hp. numbers between Z28's, SS's, formulas, T/A's and WS6 T/A's. They ALL put down close to the same numbers on the dyno. 300-310 for most of them. Does not matter whether it's a Z28, SS, WS6, exc. They all dyno around that range. You ever taken a look under the hood of a Ws6 T/A to see where all the air comming from the 'ram air' hood is going to? Nowhere, just like the regular T/A. The airbox that leads to the MAF is shut tight. So just how, again, does a Ws6 make 10-20 more advertised power with just a fake 'ram air' hood? It doesn't. Same goes for the SS. The exhaust system is just slightly less restrictive, but it provides little in the way of gains. A few hp really. Maybe you should read up on f-bodies.


BTW, don't come on here flaming, newbie. You aren't scoring points with anybody.:rolleyes:

Maybe it was time I came on to stop the relentless BS you seem so content to type all the time. Stop making BS posts with BS opinions without ANY facts to back them up. I don't care if you like my car or not, it does not matter to me. But I can not stand when people spout BS and try to get other people to believe it like you. Go do a little more research and come back better prepared next time. :wave:

Originally posted by stangvette1
The mustang can compete with GM at every level:
:rolleyes: Another biased opinion.


Chevy doesn't dominate Ford in any of these categories. The mustang v6 will take the v6 firebird and the v6 camaro (WEIGHT), the mach1 will hold its ground versus the transam and camaro ss, the cobra r will take the C5, and the 2003 cobra will hang with the Z06 all day long. Clearly Chevy is NOT more powerful than Ford.


Auto to auto? Stick to stick? Your generalizing here. Auto to auto, the Camaro or Firebird will take the Mustang. I have raced several auto Mustangs and have never lost. Ford does not know how to build a halfway decent auto still. Stick to stick, it is a drivers race. Been there, done that as well. Lost one, won one so far. Very close race b/t the two. A LS1 f-body will rape a Mustang GT. Enough said. The Mach 1 will contend with LS1 f-bodies, but is slightly slower. The 03 Cobra will beat a C5 'Vette but is slightly slower than a Z06.
Clearly Chevy is more powerful than Ford.
Lets take a look shall we....
V6 Camaro to V6 Mustang= 200 hp vs. 193 hp. Advantage-Chevy
V8 f-body to Mustang GT= 310(350 actual) vs. 260 Advantage-Chevy
LS6 Corvette to 03' Cobra= 405 vs. 390 (actual #'s slightly higher)
Advantage- 03' Cobra has a little more power real world. But the Z06 weighs 600ish Lbs less. So, advantage-Chevrolet.

Originally posted by Tekone



V8 f-body to Mustang GT= 310(350 actual) vs. 260 Advantage-Chevy


Now this comparison is just plain stupid, you have to compare the mach I to an F body with an LS1.
Now since I am neither a Ford or Chevy guy(MOPARMAN) than I say fuck it and buy a Viper and smoke everything you guys are talking about.:wink: :thefinger

man this is gettin waay of subject here. but since people are dissin out the nissan VQ engine i'm goin to have to but in. the reason why everyone says that the VQ is much better of an engine then the 3.8 that GM makes is because the V6 is what nissan spends most of its R&D on. which GM specializes in 350's nissan specializes in the VQ engine. so basically the V6 like you guys admited is an old engine that really hasn't been improved over time becuase no one really buys a V6 camaro for all out performance. and and just to let you guys know, the VQ in the MAX is the same as the VQ found in the Z which makes 287 from 3.5 liters. that is not a bad number for a 3.5 that more power then you get from a ford 302 or any other n/a ford 4.6 and more then any GM 3.8 liter motors. granted any sane person will know that a MAX can not hang with a V8 powered Camaro (you need a supercharger for that) but the MAX is quick enough to hang with a stang GT which is not bad for a V6 four door family car compared to a V8 powered sport coupe. you understand?

Originally posted by TatII
the Z which makes 287 from 3.5 liters. that is not a bad number for a 3.5 that more power then you get from a ford 302 or any other n/a ford 4.6

N/A 4.6L Mach I engine makes 305 HP.

Originally posted by PWMAN


Now this comparison is just plain stupid, you have to compare the mach I to an F body with an LS1.
Now since I am neither a Ford or Chevy guy(MOPARMAN) than I say fuck it and buy a Viper and smoke everything you guys are talking about.:wink: :thefinger

What do you think I just compared a Mustang GT to? An LS1 f-body puts down 300-310 to the REAR WHEELS. Stock. Do the math and that means 350~ to the flywheel. They are very underrated cars. Why do you think they beat Mustang GT's so badly?

Originally posted by TatII
man this is gettin waay of subject here. but since people are dissin out the nissan VQ engine i'm goin to have to but in. the reason why everyone says that the VQ is much better of an engine then the 3.8 that GM makes is because the V6 is what nissan spends most of its R&D on. which GM specializes in 350's nissan specializes in the VQ engine. so basically the V6 like you guys admited is an old engine that really hasn't been improved over time becuase no one really buys a V6 camaro for all out performance. and and just to let you guys know, the VQ in the MAX is the same as the VQ found in the Z which makes 287 from 3.5 liters. that is not a bad number for a 3.5 that more power then you get from a ford 302 or any other n/a ford 4.6 and more then any GM 3.8 liter motors. granted any sane person will know that a MAX can not hang with a V8 powered Camaro (you need a supercharger for that) but the MAX is quick enough to hang with a stang GT which is not bad for a V6 four door family car compared to a V8 powered sport coupe. you understand?

Thank you. Finally someone brought some sense into this thread.:bigthumb:

Originally posted by Tekone


What do you think I just compared a Mustang GT to? An LS1 f-body puts down 300-310 to the REAR WHEELS. Stock. Do the math and that means 350~ to the flywheel. They are very underrated cars. Why do you think they beat Mustang GT's so badly?

I'm saying comparing a GT stang to a LS1 F body is stupid BECAUSE they are so underated. And even if they weren't, 310 HP VS 260? Come on, of course the Firebird/camaro is going to stomp a GT without even trying. That is my point, compare it to something a little closer like the mach I which has 305 HP and can do 12's in the 1/4 like an F body.

Originally posted by PWMAN


N/A 4.6L Mach I engine makes 305 HP.
so you'll only to get 18 more hp from a 1.1 liter bigger displacement engine with two more pistons. kinda pathetic if you ask me.

how come a nissan 4.5L 8 cylinder VQ45 engine makes 345hp and 333 lbs. torque when a ford 4.6 only makes 260hp and the older stangs didn't even make that @ 215 hp and 280-something torque? maybe cuz ford's not that great.

Originally posted by Tekone

Where do we get these morons from?
My friend has a 97' Maxima and it does not even come close to beating my car. I have raced him several times. Please stop spouting BS and then trying to back it up with more BS opinions.

you either 1)have a friend with an auto max vs your manual camaro, 2) have a friend who can't drive stick or 3) you're just lying out your asshole
VQmax---> :nutkick: <---you're v6 camaro

Originally posted by Paonessa

you either 1)have a friend with an auto max vs your manual camaro, 2) have a friend who can't drive stick or 3) you're just lying out your asshole
VQmax---> :nutkick: <---you're v6 camaro

Yes, he had an auto. It wouldn't have mattered if my Camaro was auto or manual, they run very similar times. GM knows how to build autos. F-bodies are among the few cars out there the can run as fast with a auto as with a manual in the 1/4th. Stop light to stop light is a different story. I do not believe a manual Maxima would have won by much either. They had what, 190 hp and weighed about 3100lbs versus my 200 hp and 3300 lbs and slightly better gearing/aerodynamics. If a manual Maxima did win, it would not be by much.

nissan makes some of the crappiest autos. so an auto maxima is a very slow. even a 5 speed 4 cylinder base model accord can take it. the auto max's run's 16's. when a 5 speed maxima's are very quick cars. those are 14 second cars. so they run a high 14 when a auto camaro V8 can run a low 14. still its a bit off, but atleast its within a 5 car range which is still not too bad for a car that has 2 less cylinders and wasn't designed to be an all out drag monster.

Tekone, And your OPINION wasn't baised?!? The mustang v6 (automatic or manual) will beat a camaro or firebird all day long! The camaro/firebird has a 5 horsepower advantage. WOW!!! 5 horsepower is nothing because it doesn't make up for the 200-250 pound weight disadvantage. I will admit that the mustang gt will get taken by the Z28, transam, or ss. But be fair, the mach 1 is a much better competitor with its 305hp/320tq engine. The mach1 is A LOT lighter than the ss or transam. It would probably be a driver's race. Speaking of the transam and the camaro ss, they would get KILLED by a car that costs ~$1000 more (the mustang cobra). The cobra will beat the corvette c5. The Z06 and the cobra is a toss-up and would probably be a driver's race! It's a little pathetic for chevy though. Ford is keeping up with them with a car that costs around $17000 less!! Plus Tekone, you say that chevy is more powerful than ford. I recall hearing something about a 500 HORSEPOWER FORD GT that will blow all of GM's cars out of the water.
P.S. It's just sad that ford can match GM's top Performers head on with one model (mustang)!

Originally posted by Tekone


Yup sure it is...:rolleyes: What makes it FAR better than any V6 GM makes? The 3.8 V6 produced by GM has been out longer, is proven, and is reliable. What more can you ask for? Don't call GM V6's 'crappy' without having some facts to back up your statement.

How about reliability, performance, power, diversity, cost to manucture and upkeep, and gas mileage.........other than that.........:thefinger

Originally posted by ttspool


well it is pretty much a drivers race between those two cars. also the camaro is heavier than the corvette. also there is a 15% loss of hp from flywheel to the wheels, so 303hp divided by .85 is roughly 356 hp at the flywheel:wink:

WHATTT???? So now you are saying that the SS should be dynoing around 370-380 horse?? If the stat you posted is correct..........you guys are getting as bad as the Ford guys and their claimed 440- horse '03 Cobra!!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Tekone
Ding ding ding....we have a winner. LS1 f-bodies DO run comarable time to an LS1 powered Corvette. This is taxing your brain I can see, so I'll put it in Layman's term for you. On average, LS1 f-bodies run low 13's at around 104-106 mph in the 1/4th. On average, LS1 Corvettes run high 12's at just slightly higher mph. Hmm...their times are pretty similar don't ya think for supposedly having a 50 hp difference. The reason the Corvette is faster than f-bodies is it has a slightly different cam (lower LSA to give it hight RPM power I believe) and it has better aerodynamics.




No, the f-bodies run mid to high-13's in the 1/4, if that.

Here's a little video for you to soak up on Tekone..... and this isn't even a 2000+ Maxima. Its a 98, which is 190 horses stock....:lol: :lol:

http://mir.freewebspace.com/Movie/TechMovies/MAXvsLS1SS.wmv

And this is against an LS1 with slicks, new rear end, headers, cams, exhausts, and intake manifolds.....:bigthumb:

Originally posted by stangvette1
Tekone, And your OPINION wasn't baised?!? The mustang v6 (automatic or manual) will beat a camaro or firebird all day long! The camaro/firebird has a 5 horsepower advantage. WOW!!! 5 horsepower is nothing because it doesn't make up for the 200-250 pound weight disadvantage. I will admit that the mustang gt will get taken by the Z28, transam, or ss. But be fair, the mach 1 is a much better competitor with its 305hp/320tq engine. The mach1 is A LOT lighter than the ss or transam. It would probably be a driver's race. Speaking of the transam and the camaro ss, they would get KILLED by a car that costs ~$1000 more (the mustang cobra). The cobra will beat the corvette c5. The Z06 and the cobra is a toss-up and would probably be a driver's race! It's a little pathetic for chevy though. Ford is keeping up with them with a car that costs around $17000 less!! Plus Tekone, you say that chevy is more powerful than ford. I recall hearing something about a 500 HORSEPOWER FORD GT that will blow all of GM's cars out of the water.
P.S. It's just sad that ford can match GM's top Performers head on with one model (mustang)!

No, my opinion was not biased. I am just responding to your continual BS. As I said before, an auto Mustang will not take an auto Camaro. How do I know? I have raced SEVERAL. I have not lost once. I raced against my friend. We even switched cars and tried it. Same result. The Camaro won. Yes, Camaros weigh around ~150 lbs more, but they still come out ahead auto to auto. Want to know why? Ford does not know how to build a halfway decent auto. They are slow on upshifts and downshifts, so they take away quite a bit of performance from the Mustang.

Second, the Mach 1 is NOT much lighter than a LS1 f-body. A Mach 1 weighs around 3400-3500 lbs. A LS1 f-body weighs approximatly the same. Drivers equal, an auto Mach 1 will lose to a LS1 f-body. A manual Mach 1 will still lose, but it will be close. An 03' Mustang Cobra driven well will beat an LS1 f-body by about 4-5 tenths in the 1/4th drivers equal. However, ever tried to launch an IRS car? It is not easy to do, and it takes practice to get consistent good launches with IRS.

A 03' Cobra will take a C5 LS1 'Vette. I agree with that. It will NOT beat a Z06. That has been proven. It is close, but the Z06 will beat it. $17,000 less? Where do you get your figures from? A new 03' Cobra stickers at around $35k not including any dealer markup that dealers very often add. Like as in a $3k markup. A new 03' LS1 C5 sells for usually a little under $50k. There is not a $17k difference b/t the two.

It's funny how, whenever people get into a Mustang vs. Camaro discussion, Mustang owners are so quick to bring up the 03' Cobra. Do you know how few of them are out there? I like in a pretty wealthy city overall, and I have only seen 3 03' Cobras since they came out. This is amid at least 10-15 LS1 f-bodies I see every day. They are few and far between.

Since you still don't get it, lets do this one more time.
V6 Camaro to V6 Mustang= 200 hp vs. 193 hp. Advantage-Chevy
V8 f-body to Mustang GT= 310(350 actual) vs. 260 Advantage-Obvious
LS1 C5 to 03' Cobra=350 hp vs. 390(actual #'s slightly higher)
advantage- Ford
LS6 Corvette to 03' Cobra= 405 vs. 390 (actual #'s slightly higher)
Advantage- 03' Cobra has a little more power real world. But the Z06 weighs 600ish Lbs less. So, advantage-Chevrolet.

Originally posted by Pick


How about reliability, performance, power, diversity, cost to manucture and upkeep, and gas mileage.........other than that.........:thefinger

Funny how in this entire thread you have yet to post ONCE SINGLE fact. Still your continual biased BS. I have never had so much as one problem with my 3.8 in my Camaro. My dad has a 3.8 in his Buick. Never had a problem with it. Diversity? WTF did that come from? The 3.8 is put in so many GM cars it's ridiculous. It is also cheap to manufacture. And, I get 17 mpg on average city and around 26 highway thank you.:smile:

Originally posted by Pick


WHATTT???? So now you are saying that the SS should be dynoing around 370-380 horse?? If the stat you posted is correct..........you guys are getting as bad as the Ford guys and their claimed 440- horse '03 Cobra!!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

No, slow minded one. Do you even read a single one of my posts? READ HERE (taken from a previous post):
There is very little to no difference in hp. numbers between Z28's, SS's, formulas, T/A's and WS6 T/A's. They ALL put down close to the same numbers on the dyno. 300-310 for most of them. Does not matter whether it's a Z28, SS, WS6, exc. They all dyno around that range. You ever taken a look under the hood of a Ws6 T/A to see where all the air comming from the 'ram air' hood is going to? Nowhere, just like the regular T/A. The airbox that leads to the MAF is shut tight. So just how, again, does a Ws6 make 10-20 more advertised power with just a fake 'ram air' hood? It doesn't. Same goes for the SS. The exhaust system is just slightly less restrictive, but it provides little in the way of gains. A few hp really. Maybe you should read up on f-bodies.

And as for the 03' Cobras, guess what? They are underrated as well. Just not as much. They are underrated by around ~25 hp or so; it varies car to car, just like f-bodies.

Like I said, do some research first before spouting off more BS. You have made one too many posts in this thread.

Originally posted by Tekone


Funny how in this entire thread you have yet to post ONCE SINGLE fact. Still your continual biased BS. I have never had so much as one problem with my 3.8 in my Camaro. My dad has a 3.8 in his Buick. Never had a problem with it. Diversity? WTF did that come from? The 3.8 is put in so many GM cars it's ridiculous. It is also cheap to manufacture. And, I get 17 mpg on average city and around 26 highway thank you.:smile:

My family has owned 4 3.8 liter engines from GM and 3 VQ series engines. I think I know what the hell I'm talking about....:rolleyes: My brother no longer owns his GM 3.8, because it cost him more to keep up with the engine than the car was worth. My Grandfather drives neither one of his two now because both of them broke down right at 120,000 miles. My other brother's Pontias Parisienne 305 lasted longer than that!! Diversity, as in the VQ is now available in 9 cars released from Nissan just THIS YEAR on 4 different platforms. The 3.8 is cheaper to manufacture, but is not a good enough engine to have the combination of cheap to manufacture/quality. And the VQ series engine is miles ahead of the 3.8 in gas mileage......don't even argue....

You're the only person I know who would think that some cheap dime-a-dozen GM engine is better than the VQ series....:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Pick


No, the f-bodies run mid to high-13's in the 1/4, if that.

Where do I even start with this one? Really, how old are you? I feel like I'm talking to a 5 year old.
READ HERE (from one of my previous posts):
That 'official' 1/4th mile time you are quoting was done by both Car and Driver and MT on regular roads, not the track. A lil' bit of a difference there.
If that is indeed what they run then how do about 10,000 people in LS1.com have timeslips showing low 13 second runs bone stock right down to the paper air filter?

No, f-bodies do not run high 13's in the 1/4th. They run low 13's and high 12's in very good conditions. (e.g. good track prep. a few weight removers) Again, stop spouting more BS. It make you looks bad.

Here's a little bit for you:

Nissan's VQ series engine.....
Ward's Top Ten Engine-
1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 ...... and counting

"Nissan's 3.5-liter VQ V6 makes a power argument for naming Nissan's VQ engine family one of the best V6 designs of all time," -Ward's Auto World

I have never seen the 3.8 on that list before......interesting, Now, shut up, you are wrong about this. Its been on there ever year since it was introduced.:wink:

Originally posted by Pick


My family has owned 4 3.8 liter engines from GM and 3 VQ series engines. I think I know what the hell I'm talking about....:rolleyes: My brother no longer owns his GM 3.8, because it cost him more to keep up with the engine than the car was worth. My Grandfather drives neither one of his two now because both of them broke down right at 120,000 miles. My other brother's Pontias Parisienne 305 lasted longer than that!! Diversity, as in the VQ is now available in 9 cars released from Nissan just THIS YEAR on 4 different platforms. The 3.8 is cheaper to manufacture, but is not a good enough engine to have the combination of cheap to manufacture/quality. And the VQ series engine is miles ahead of the 3.8 in gas mileage......don't even argue....

You're the only person I know who would think that some cheap dime-a-dozen GM engine is better than the VQ series....:rolleyes:

I think you don't know what the hell your talking about, and you never had since the beginning of this thread. The 3.8 V6 has been put into 8 cars in the last few years. It is overall a very reliable engine. So you had problems? I don't know why you did, but you got unlucky with your 3.8's. Every manufacturer (even Nissan) puts out engines/parts/cars that are lemons every now and then. You got one, or more. I never said the GM 3.8 was better than the VQ series Nissan V6. Where did you get that from? I just responded to someone's post about it being WAY better than the GM 3.8 and told them to post FACTS not opinions.

Originally posted by Tekone




high 12's in very good conditions. (e.g. good track prep. a few weight removers)

Then let me ask you this: How do F-bodies run high 12's stock if an SS camaro runs a low 12 1/4 with cams, headers, exhaust, new rear-end, intake manifolds, and slicks??? And that is at the track!!! You're not making sense......:loser:

Originally posted by Tekone


The 3.8 V6 has been put into 8 cars in the last few years. It is overall a very reliable engine. In the last few years? Has it been put into 9 different cars in the same model year, in four different platforms, with the least horse-power out of all those cars having 240 horses??? And no, its not reliable.


Originally posted by Tekone
So you had problems? Yeah, we had problems in 4 different cars with 3.8's in them. Obviously all of them weren't lemons.

Originally posted by Tekone
I never said the GM 3.8 was better than the VQ series Nissan V6. Where did you get that from? I just responded to someone's post about it being WAY better than the GM 3.8 and told them to post FACTS not opinions.
It is a fact that the VQ is way better than the 3.8. There, now I said it and I have proof.

Originally posted by Pick


Then let me ask you this: How do F-bodies run high 12's stock if an SS camaro runs a low 12 1/4 with cams, headers, exhaust, new rear-end, intake manifolds, and slicks??? And that is at the track!!! You're not making sense......:loser:

How dense are you? Seriously? First, specify what kind of cam, headers, exhaust, rearend the f-body has.
Lets say it has a decently agressive cam (e.g. 228/228 112 LSA .570 .570)
Lets give it LT headers.
And why not Loudmouth exhaust. Common for most f-bodies as a mod.
Lets give it a 12 bolt rearend for better reliability.
Intake manifold change? Lets keep it stock and realistic.
Slicks? Lets give it BFG DR's.
Since it has a cam, it will also have most if not all of the minor bolt on's like an air lid, 160/180* stat, stall (if it's an auto:)) gears (why it needs a 12 bolt w/slicks:))

With all those mods, a well driven f-body will run low 12's.

Originally posted by Tekone


How dense are you? Seriously? First, specify what kind of cam, headers, exhaust, rearend the f-body has.
Lets say it has a decently agressive cam (e.g. 228/228 112LS1 .570 .570)
Lets give it LT headers.
And why not Loudmouth exhaust. Common for most f-bodies as a mod.
Lets give it a 12 bolt rearend for better reliability.
Intake manifold change? Lets keep it stock and realistic.
Slicks? Lets give it BFG DR's.
Since it has a cam, it will also have most if not all of the minor bolt on's like an air lid, 160/180* stat, stall (if it's an auto:)) gears (why it needs a 12 bolt w/slicks:))

With all those mods, a well driven f-body will run low 12's/high 11's.

Did you watch the video?? It ran a 12.54 . That is damn slow for having all those mods and your claimed stock time. Which is why your claimed stock time isn't credible......

It got beat by a Maxima who's bet time has been 11.913.:icon16::loser:

Originally posted by Pick


Did you watch the video?? It ran a 12.54 . That is damn slow for having all those mods and your claimed stock time. Which is why your claimed stock time isn't credible......

It got beat by a Maxima who's bet time has been 11.913.:icon16::loser:

I just watched the video. How in the hell do you know what mods it had, because none are announced, so it's up to your imagination to know what it had. Yes, it was obviously modified. But you don't know what it had. The announcer stated he though he saw it purge, indicating it might have had nitrous. If it had even a 75 shot, that car would be good for mid 12's just like it ran. I think that is all it had. Nitrous, and an upgraded fuel pump to accomidate it.

I can show you video after video of low 13 and high 12 second runs by a countless number of LS1 f-bodies. But why bother? You are still convinced you are right no matter what I post. I have posted fact after fact, and you ignore them all. You just continue to spout BS. And I just keep correcting your BS.

Originally posted by Tekone


I just watched the video. How in the hell do you know what mods it had, because none are announced, so it's up to your imagination to know what it had. Yes, it was obviously modified. But you don't know what it had. The announcer stated he though he saw it purge, indicating it might have had nitrous. If it had even a 75 shot, that car would be good for mid 12's just like it ran. I think that is all it had. Nitrous, and an upgraded fuel pump to accomidate it.


How do I know what he has?? Because I know the guy that raced him. Plus did you hear it, see the tires, and see the kind of burnout he did. That's no nitruous burn-out.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Pick


How do I know what he has?? Because I know the guy that raced him. Plus did you hear it, see the tires, and see the kind of burnout he did. That's no nitruous burn-out.:rolleyes:

You don't use nitrous to burn out. That kind of burnout can be done by a bolt-on LS1 f-body. What do you think 350+ lb-ft. of torque can do to a set of tires? And anyways, 3 things. One, did you ever bother to see what altitutide that track was at? Altitutide can greatly affect e.t.'s and mileage. Second, he could just be a bad driver, no offense to him. If he has what you say he has, then he should be running faster than he did at sea level. Third, did the car have any tuning? I could see it running that time easily if it is untuned.

I can't explain why he ran a bad time like that with his modifications if he has what you suggest. Point is, I don't have to. You are proving nothing. LS1 f-bodies still run what they run regardless of whatever videos you show of them. Again, I can provide many videos of low 13 and a few high 12 second 1/4th mile runs as well as dyno graphs and plenty of evidence to support this.

Tekone, it has been proven that the cobra is just as fast as the Z06. Go to svtperformance.com and look in the kill section. You will see that there are Z06s going down. They are both low 12 second cars.
But this is a v6 comparison. The 3.8 liter mustang will take down the 3.8 liter camaro! Your opinions aren't b.s., but but they are baised!

in the video you don't even see the nissan burnout... I gotta put up the:bs:

From experience, my 3.8L smokes 3.8L stangs. I'm sorry but it does. I have read countless articles and reviews comparing both v6 models. And the camaro has come on top with all of them.
I have a buddy with a 00 auto stang and we ride each others cars. he was always impressed with mine compared to his, and was jealous of the power.
For those of you who know me, my v6 hangs/beast stang gts. I ran a best of 14.49 at 94-96mph, I gotta get the timeslip out, it's too late to do so and the Mrs. is sleepin'
Stock v6 can run 15s all day, look here
http://media.firebirdv6.com/unsunghero.html
I'm stock stangs run high 16s.
As a last resort v6 mustang owners resort to weight. Well, the aerodynamics of the camaro make up for it's weight, the sleeky body is built more for speed than the boxy mustang
sorry there, and man how sweet it would be if any late model f-body or corvette had a supercharger, or nitrous... woo wee. I gotta say that chevy has to be respected for actually putting thought into making a redesigned engine as opposed to slapping a supercharger on a existent engine. Oh well, to each his own. I don't think anyone here will argue that if ss or trans am matched a 03 cobra and it was supercharged, we'd see how close it wouldn't be. Also, '02 was the last year for camaros and birds, so all chevy has is the corvette, and Pontiac has the GTO coming back. 340hp I believe
A response to the Maxima engines, there's no doubt they're really good high tech engines. But there are things that go along with something that is high tech. 1) cost of repairs . My buddy blew his exhaust manifold on his eclipse spyder. He's so bitchy about how much it's gonna cost. Mine's soooo much cheaper. 2) nobody here has ever denied that the 3.8 is an engine that uses older technology. I mean, it is an iron block. A pushrod v-6. But the thing about using old technology is that you know what to expect, and that old technology is coupled with what's new, to make a damn reliable engine. Plus performance parts for my car are chheaaap. I got my 99 v6 with 60k miles on it, every option possible, sport appearance package for 8k. haven't had a problem yet. 3) I'm sure your v6 is aluminum and the whole family of nissan v6s. You can't fix cracked aluminum :( Can't wait till GM makes an aluminum v6, and of course it'll be comparable. Technology is a weird thing, when one company has an edge, another has something better. Thus arguments spur until something else is created, it is a neverending cycle, but it is interesting

Originally posted by stangvette1
Tekone, it has been proven that the cobra is just as fast as the Z06. Go to svtperformance.com and look in the kill section. You will see that there are Z06s going down. They are both low 12 second cars.
But this is a v6 comparison. The 3.8 liter mustang will take down the 3.8 liter camaro! Your opinions aren't b.s., but but they are baised!

An 03' Cobra has around 425-435 fwhp real world. A Z06 has right about 400-405 fwhp. However, the Z06 weighs ~500 lbs. less. Z06's weigh 3200 lbs. 03' Cobras weigh around 3700 lbs. Thats one hell of a lot less weight. So ~30 hp makes up for the 500 lb. difference? Nope.
Second, why keep generalizing with the V6 Mustang beating a V6 Camaro. Your generalization is incorrect. For the 3rd time or so, I'll post this again:
Auto to auto, the Camaro will win. The Camaro weighs ~150 lbs. more, but Chevy can build a decent auto. Ford cannot. Ford's auto is pretty bad, and takes away from the Mustang's 1/4th times considerably.
Manual to manual, it is a drivers race.

Again, I have raced both autos an manual mustangs. I have not lost to an auto 99+ yet. I have lost to a manual once and beat one. Others that have done the same races have about the same results.

I don't race that often with my '01 stang auto so maybe you're right about the ford automatic transmission.

P.S. Tekone, you said that the manual mustang and manual camaro would be a driver's race, even with the 150 pound weight disadvantage. Using the 10hp=100lb. theory the cobra would only have a 200 pound weight disadvange against the Z06 since it has 30 more horsepower. Therefore the cobra versus the Z06 would be a driver's race ( according to you, of course).

Originally posted by stangvette1
I don't race that often with my '01 stang auto so maybe you're right about the ford automatic transmission.

P.S. Tekone, you said that the manual mustang and manual camaro would be a driver's race, even with the 150 pound weight disadvantage. Using the 10hp=100lb. theory the cobra would only have a 200 pound weight disadvange against the Z06 since it has 30 more horsepower. Therefore the cobra versus the Z06 would be a driver's race ( according to you, of course).

You cannot generalize like that and just say 10hp=100lbs. More factors come into play than just hp. You have to account for aerodynamics, gearing, engine specifics, drivetrain, suspension ect. An 03' Cobra is close to a Z06, but equal drivers assuming, the Z06 will pull ahead in the 1/4th by a few cars. The ZO6 is slightly faster to where it is more than just a drivers race. Of course, put a bad driver in either car, and the results will be reversed.

It's still going to be a driver's race. Aerodynamics aren't really a big deal in a quarter mile. Also these cars are geared about the same. They both make an awesome amount of torque at low rpms. They are pretty similar. The only two big differences are the cobra's power edge and the Z06's weight edge.

P.S. I'm sorry about our arguments! PEACE!!!!! We're just two different people with different opinions.:bigthumb:

Originally posted by stangvette1
It's still going to be a driver's race. Aerodynamics aren't really a big deal in a quarter mile. Also these cars are geared about the same. They both make an awesome amount of torque at low rpms. They are pretty similar. The only two big differences are the cobra's power edge and the Z06's weight edge.

P.S. I'm sorry about our arguments! PEACE!!!!! We're just two different people with different opinions.:bigthumb:

:)

for the v6 nissan guy, I think one of the best v6s ever produced was the Ford SHO, in 1990 a 3 liter engine pushed 220 hp. Now that's power!

but ford dind't make that motor, yamaha did. and the 5 speed maxima during that time was still faster then the SHO

Hey guys Im no expert but I drive a 1994 camaro with a 3.4 and my dad drives a 1997 z28 both cars are pretty quick but niether of us has ever been beaten by any imports or mustangs for your money i can gurantee a camaro z28 can give you more horsepower for your money and a 3.4 wont beat a gt. but a3.8 will guranteed:thefinger

the 5 speed maxima was not quicker in 1990, get your facts straight
Also, a 3.8 camaro will have it's hands full with a mustang gt, trust me, I know

Originally posted by yojcbeast
the 5 speed maxima was not quicker in 1990, get your facts straight
Also, a 3.8 camaro will have it's hands full with a mustang gt, trust me, I know
true but they're talking VQ. and in 95(when the VQ came out) the maxima was defintely faster and continued to be so even when ford put that atrocious V8 in the SHO's in 98(i think). so do some research before making snap responses like that

the 90 maxima's ran on the now low tech VG motor not the VQ motor that it currently runs on since 95

i never mentioned that I gave a flying shit about 1995. I was talking about 1990. An improved v6 SHO would've put the VQ to shame. Period

my slow ass 91 civic pulled about 1 1/2 car legnths on a 96 mustang v6 so dont try to act like these cars are so tight based on the fact that they are domestics.

I respect camaros and mustangs and think they are cool so dont go callin me a domestic hater, or a ricer, or any of that kind of shit ... but in my opinion anyone who buys the v6 camaro or mustang is lame.

Originally posted by yojcbeast
i never mentioned that I gave a flying shit about 1995. I was talking about 1990. An improved v6 SHO would've put the VQ to shame. Period
well that's when the Vq came out asshole, and thats what the nissan comparo in this thread is about, the fuckin' VQ. which'll tear a new asshole in a yamaha powered SHO anyday. the whole point is that Ford didn't even make that engine so who cares, its just another point in favor of our argument, that ford's v6's suck ass.

i have a 96 maxima se auto and an 01 5 speed mustang 3.8 beat me by slightly more than a car length.

about a week later i ran into him with my dads 6 speed g35 coupe. there was no contest.

Originally posted by yojcbeast
i never mentioned that I gave a flying shit about 1995. I was talking about 1990. An improved v6 SHO would've put the VQ to shame. Period

i guess you have a hard time reading letters

VG does not = VQ. understand? G and Q . two totally different letters and 2 totally different engines. your talkin about a 90 max. well a 90-94 max has a VG you see the letter G? now from 95 to present. the maxima's have a VQ. you see the letter Q? good. now thats the motor that everyone was talkin about. you mean to tell me that a motor taht is near perfect is goin to be beaten by a 9 year old yamaha motor? nissan has been developin this motor for who knows how long? nissan has a very long list of very rugged, power and realiable motors.

RB series= skyline straight 6 that can handle 600-800l hp stock
SR series= most overly built 140hp 4 cylinder engines that can handle 400 horsepower stock
VQ series= nissans most popular motor here in stateside that has won the 10 best V6 engines for almost 10 years straight.
VH= the twin turbo V8 found on the legendary nissan R390 road car.

its a proven fact that nissan makes damn good engines, and they have been doin that since the 60's with the original 240Z, the datsun 510 ( which was beatin Bimmers in road racing at the time) and the original skyline 2000GT-R from the 60's that was beatin porsches around the track ) nissan has a very very strong racing heritage.

Wow , this thread should be renamed Ford VS GM VS Nissan. I just wanted to make a comment on the 3.8L series 2 motor from GM. I own a car with this motor and it has not had a problem for over 5 years. As a matter of fact it was on Ward's list for many years. As far as the mustang and camaro comparison goes , auto for auto, i have seen the camaro win more races. As for the manual vs manual comparison , i haven't seen that happen yet. I think it would be more up to the drivers ability. Just my two cents:)

It's a driver's race, plain and simple.
Anybody that just says otherwise is a biased opinion toward ford or chevy, my opinion isn't biased because I like Mopar the most.:bigthumb:

v 6 camaros, mustangs and firebirds are camaro mustang firebird wannabeez
my body had a 96 mustang V6 and i smoked him with my old 90 GP STE
he sold it and bought an A4 1.8T

Originally posted by kriz_k
v 6 camaros, mustangs and firebirds are camaro mustang firebird wannabeez


Well that my personal opinion too, but I didn't want to bash anybody.

i too am a ford and mustang guy but probably the camaro. the chevy 3.8 gets about ten more hp but i'm not sure on the weights.

Could we just quit all this bickering? Anyone with any common sense and any experience in life knows that Ford and Chevy both make good cars. Whether the car goes 300 k miles or 100k miles before needing repairs or replacements pretty much depend on the driver. If a person is a good steward of the particular car he is blessed with, keeps the fluids changed regularly, tires, tune-ups, etc. then the car will last. Anybody can mod a car to be faster than any other. But is it worth it? I own a mustang. At one time, a camaro beat my mustang. At one time a maxima beat my mustang (that was when it was on blocks). Nissan makes an excellent engine. Who the hell are we to defend any particular motor company like it was our own? You didn't build that engine. I didn't build it. Good grief people. Take care of your car and it will perform. Nobody is a loser for buying any particular V6. They bought it because they like the car. So get off it. Shut up and sit down. You want to mod your car to where you can blow everyone else away? Go right ahead. But, what's your gain? Hit a ditch at 135 mph and see what happens. Nice results... if your job security is that people wreck their cars because of a need for speed. Just grow up people. The 3 companies talked about here make good quality vehicles. I like my mustang. It was kicking strong with 160k miles on it. I've beaten Maximas and Camaros. Camaros and Maximas have beaten me. It depends alot on the driver also. Say I come up on a Camaro SS with a 16 year old driving. I'm in a 3.8 v6 mustang conv. The dude doesn't know how to shift quickly. I beat him with six cylinders pumping and exhausting flowing through a single factory muffler and pipe. People just drive and feel lucky that you have your eyes and arms and feet that you're able to. OOKay???? :thefinger

Hi sorry to bring up an old topic but it reminded me a prototype Monte Carlo with a naturally aspirated 3800 GM V6 putting out almost 300 HP. So GM could have put this puppy in the Camaro's and Firebird's to compete with AND OWN Nissan's very nice 3.5 :wink:

Anyway here is the link:

http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_concept_gmtoys/2001/1/Monte_Carlo_Intimidator/print.phtml

Hi sorry to bring up an old topic but it reminded me a prototype Monte Carlo with a naturally aspirated 3800 GM V6 putting out almost 300 HP. So GM could have put this puppy in the Camaro's and Firebird's to compete with AND OWN Nissan's very nice 3.5 :wink:

Anyway here is the link:

http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_concept_gmtoys/2001/1/Monte_Carlo_Intimidator/print.phtml
:disappoin so what? nissans VQ35 in the 350z makes 287 hp which is also almost 300. with a stillen exhaust it's exactly 300 hp.

I know that the vq makes 287 HP, I was just pointing out the potential of GM's highly touted 3.8 V6. I know exactly why the 93 and up V6 Camaro's and Firebird's get a bad rap because the 93-95's look very smilar to the 96's and 97's, BUT there is a huge difference under the hood they went from the 3.4 with 160 HP / 200 TQ to the 3.8 with 200 HP / and 225 TQ. The 5 speed variations of our cars have been known to run low 15's and even some cases high 14's with stuff like the jack and spare out and serpentine belt. Yet everone dogs on these cars? For the price you cannot really beat them. And then of course is the LS1 which I plan on getting after my 97 Camaro is paid off, but that's another story...

For all you people that talk about mustang cobra's and gt's -vs- corvettes. The 03' cobra does 0-60 in 4.7, only 1/2 a second slower than the 02' vettes and top out only 6 mph slower, for $25,000 dollars less. If you fags are going to compare something do it right. I have a 400+ HP 1999 v6 mustang with about $13,000 invested total (car and add-ons) and I could blow the doors off any of your cars.

About time somebody relized that the 92 v-6 camaro only offered a 3.1 in the 6 a 305 in the 8 or a L89 350 get your size right AAnd the V-6 in the 92 sucks I used to own one the 305 is ok but to really run you need the L89

Sorry did not see the 02 thought is said 92 my bad still stuck in the 90s

i have a couple of questions for the guy with the mustang V-6 with a suposed 400+ hp first of all what did u do to it? second if u had that much money why not get the V-8 version? and last of all why you think u could beat anyone? i'd give ya a run for your money im sure that is of course u wouldn't mind racing a 4-door.


PS: isn't it funny how most old ford "hotrods" contain the heart of a chevy, yeah i think theres a reason for that

PS: isn't it funny how most old ford "hotrods" contain the heart of a chevy, yeah i think theres a reason for that
The reason for that is because they are so cheap to build, and there is plenty of chrome add-ons for them. Did you ever see the prices on building an antique engine? It's insane. I know, because I have a 65(which isn't really really old) Plymouth 273 CID and it cost me 5K to rebuild it. My dad has his 350 in his truck done for 2K, most of that was machine work. Mine was mostly parts prices.
It's not because chevy is better, it's because it's cheaper.

To LastWEAK:

The reason I did not get the V-8 is because this is my first car and at the time, I could not pay the kind insurance payment required to have a GT or Cobra. I am not sure whether you are just sceptical about my car or whether you wouldn't know how to do it. First, I bought duel flowmasters. Then, I bought a ATI Procharger Stage II PS1 Intercooler Kit with 11psi and upgraded to the 3-Core, Sheet metal model. I expect this pushed up to 85% rwhp gains. This kit includes lots of stuff like 4.10's, a 255 fuel pump, an ignition controller, ect. I bought a ASP 30% reduction crank pulley. Then a Stallion Torque Converter and Venom 400 performance module. And last I bought a B&M transkit, which is cool because I have a automatic/manual transmission.

Do you still think your 4-Door can handle this?

To LastWEAK:

The reason I did not get the V-8 is because this is my first car and at the time, I could not pay the kind insurance payment required to have a GT or Cobra. I am not sure whether you are just sceptical about my car or whether you wouldn't know how to do it. First, I bought duel flowmasters. Then, I bought a ATI Procharger Stage II PS1 Intercooler Kit with 11psi and upgraded to the 3-Core, Sheet metal model. I expect this pushed up to 85% rwhp gains. This kit includes lots of stuff like 4.10's, a 255 fuel pump, an ignition controller, ect. I bought a ASP 30% reduction crank pulley. Then a Stallion Torque Converter and Venom 400 performance module. And last I bought a B&M transkit, which is cool because I have a automatic/manual transmission.

Do you still think your 4-Door can handle this?

Lets see, assuming your abstract math is correct, even with 85% gains, your car is still only making ~300 rwhp. Since you are pushing 11 psi, I am assuming you have forged internals/built bottom end. Otherwise, that engine will probably not last too long. Same goes with your rearend. If you have 4.10's and I'm assuming Nittos to hook that power, say goodbye to your rearend after about 10+ hard street or track launches.

And chill with the cocky attitude about beating everyone else. Your car is just as fast or only slightly faster that a stock LS1 f-body, and there are thousands of them out there that run just what you car runs with 13k in it.

Forged internals are not necessary at all. I've seen cast pistons handle 30 PSI, it's all a matter of avoiding detonation with good tuning. 11 PSI is nothing to stock internals.
I will agree about the rear end though, V6 stangs have a weaker rear than V8's do standard.

a 3.4 liter wll not bat a 3.8 liter mustang,but to Blackstang,
mustangs plain and simple suck.
whn my v6 was stock it was almost as fast as a gt and would bea a v6 mustang by 3 car lengths in a quarter mile
so, i added a ram air intake in, an intake lid, removed the maf and replaced it with intake mod chip and put on flows and i dropped in KN Filter
at that point it ran 257hp with 281 ft of torque
much to your dismay, it ran side by side with your so called Mustang, (ponies run faster than your car)
i soon learned that nascar uses my same engine only bored out,so i decided instead of selling my car, to keep it to make idiots in v8 mustangs look stupid
then, i added exhaust cutouts, removed the cat, added a hypertech 3 chip and 160 degree thermostat, and ignition coilovers, sparkplug wires, and new sparkplugs,
its runs 288hp with 326 ft of torque
now i smoke v8 mustangs on a daily along with 3 series BMWS a4 and A6 audi's
so i would b caught dead in a v6, or while i burn by your v8 mustang
and by the way, a z28 is .6 seconds faster than you mustang on a 0-60 stock and a ss is close match to a corvette so you dont need to lie to kick-it, i know there is no way any mustang gt comes close to those times, and if you want to spend 35-50 gs on a mustang saleen or cobra, go ahead and waste your money on a ford, because a 30,000$ ss with less than 5 grand invested into will destroy any car ford has ever even dreamed of!
have a nice life, and be smart, sell your ford

and if you want to spend 35-50 gs on a mustang saleen or cobra, go ahead and waste your money on a ford, because a 30,000$ ss with less than 5 grand invested into will destroy any car ford has ever even dreamed of!


I wasn't going to reply until I saw this comment. How about spend 26K on a GT, and that 4K in mods with beat an SS. It just go's round and round when you start talking like that. Like another example would be buy a Honda Civic and with 10K in mods it will smoke any SS or stang.
The exhaust on a GT is so restrictive, just replacing the muffler with a Flowmaster 40 series, no other mods, gets you 20 WHP. A Mach I can compete with a Z28, it's so close it really comes down to the Driver.

mustangs plain and simple suck.


And if that was true, the mustang wouldn't be here anymore. Wait a minute, the Camaro isn't here anymore. Hmm, maybe it sucked.
Mustangs sold so much more than all F-bodys combined. So STFU :loser:

HAHAHA kiddies, you wont be wanting to pull next V6's like this.

This is mine.
http://www.cardomain.com/id/black96camaro

This is someone elses.
http://www.firebirdv6.com/~shane1015

Boosted GM 3800 V6 motors are serious players :)

Thanks for that, unfortunately this thread is old and worthless.



NEEEEXT!