RX-7 vs. Supra vs. Viper

i'm sure this one's been done before, but i'm new, so give me a break. anyway, i'll let you all go first before i make my case.

You haven't really specified whether you're basing the comparison on..e.g value for money etc...

So I'll just say that if the 3 cars were lined up in front of me and I could choose between the 3 sets of keys.....I'd take the Viper keys because:

a) it looks and sounds cooler than the other two.
b) its faster (unmodified) than the other two.

i agree with matty, plus if i got tired of the viper, i could just sell, and buy an rx-7 or 8, and still have alot of money to mod it

good points each of you. i guess what i was looking for was opinions on which is potentially the superior sports car and why. we all know what each of these cars can do stock, but i'm not putting any restrictions on modifications here. hopefully that makes it clearer.

The Supra- it may be slower than the Viper- but it is also much better on a race course- and the interior is FAAAAAR more comfortable- and resistant to heat.

im assuming ur talking about the 1st gen viper, not the srt10 (even if u were talking about the srt, i would still take the prev gen viper) why? simply because the car is a classic with so much potential for power . . . there are some guys with s/c kits on their vipers running 900+hp to the wheels . . . now that is some crazy shiznit

Originally posted by Jimster
The Supra- it may be slower than the Viper- but it is also much better on a race course- and the interior is FAAAAAR more comfortable- and resistant to heat.


could you be more wrong....i came from europe too and i though at the begining the same thing that the viper is a brute that cannot handle...well i admit i was wrong....and btw SCC did a comparison among several cars and the unmoded gts viper came first on the track, it was followed by a heavily moded r34 vspec 2 and another heavily moded supra...the supra was pushing something like 600 so way more thant the viper.....so don't make the mistake of didmising the viper...ita a track car not a drag racer

I'd take an MKIV Supra, first because I've got a hard-on for those cars. I still think they amazingly good when I see them, even stock. And check out how good they can look (this image borrowed from the signature of AF member "The_ScareCrow"):

http://www.superstreetonline.com/superstreet/featuredvehicles/130_0302_SUPR_5_z.jpg

They have great horsepower potential (granted, it is probably dwarfed by the potential of the Viper, but once you break 600 or 700 horsepower to the wheels, does it really matter that much any more, unless it is no longer intended for use as a road car?). And I also think that inline 6's sound better than any other engine layout (even a throaty V8).

So you've got a twin turbo RWD I6, fast and easily upgradable for power without major engine reconstruction, in a package that looks great, sounds great, and handles respectably. Sounds like an easy pick to me!

Originally posted by Neutrino



could you be more wrong....i came from europe too and i though at the begining the same thing that the viper is a brute that cannot handle...well i admit i was wrong....and btw SCC did a comparison among several cars and the unmoded gts viper came first on the track, it was followed by a heavily moded r34 vspec 2 and another heavily moded supra...the supra was pushing something like 600 so way more thant the viper.....so don't make the mistake of didmising the viper...ita a track car not a drag racer

Yeah- but what about the experience of the Viper driver- it could count greatly FOR the Viper- as the Viper is a car that requires great mastering- I learnt that the hard way when the tail of the '94 RT/10 I was driving caught the gravel- just ever so slightly- it was an extremely insecure handler in comparision to the Supra TT that I test drove back in NZ

Originally posted by Jimster


Yeah- but what about the experience of the Viper driver- it could count greatly FOR the Viper- as the Viper is a car that requires great mastering- I learnt that the hard way when the tail of the '94 RT/10 I was driving caught the gravel- just ever so slightly- it was an extremely insecure handler in comparision to the Supra TT that I test drove back in NZ

yeah i agree with you there the viper is not a car for novices...its very unforgiving....for the average driver probably the supra is better

well now is my calling since all i've heard is supra and viper. reasons i'd stay with my rx-7: first, it can easily match and surpass the acceleration of the other two with only mild modification (as with the others). it has potential power just as high as the other two, although no one has gone that far yet (someone is working on a 4-rotor conversion in australia). it has a perfect 50/50 weight ratio and very low center of gravity, unlike the front heavy supra and viper, which is a huge advantage on the course. ease of driving also is a benefit - i haven't drivin the other two yet, but i'd imagine that it's much harder to drift a corner in a supra or a viper than in an fd. and i might as well add that car and driver (i think that was it) picked the rx-7 over the supra as import of the year in '93.

I've not driven a Supra - I've never liked their styling so I have no intrest in owning one. However, its stock numbers are comparible to my VR4s so I think it gives me a decent feel on how well they can perform. I have driven an RX-7 (back when I was deciding on the VR4 etc) and a Viper. The viper felt like a rocket ship in comparison. I could tell it would take time to get used to keeping that beast under control, but it held the road wonderfully. Out of the box it can eat those other two for lunch.

Once you start doing the mod this mod that crap, then you can just about put any car as a better performer.













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Give me the Viper any day. It can out handle the rest on the track, and don't give me the BS that it can't. It might take an experienced driver to handle a Viper but I'll bet money that the experienced driver will have better times around the track in the Viper than he will in the RX-7 and the Supra. Don't get me wrong I like the other two cars, but I a few complaints about the RX-7. IT has bad emissions, poor gas mileage, poor reliability (seals), and that pesky port overlap and placement that causes all those pesky problems. Give me the drive train of the RX-8 in the body of an RX-7 and I would be happy.

Originally posted by Polygon
Give me the Viper any day. It can out handle the rest on the track, and don't give me the BS that it can't. It might take an experienced driver to handle a Viper but I'll bet money that the experienced driver will have better times around the track in the Viper than he will in the RX-7 and the Supra. Don't get me wrong I like the other two cars, but I a few complaints about the RX-7. IT has bad emissions, poor gas mileage, poor reliability (seals), and that pesky port overlap and placement that causes all those pesky problems. Give me the drive train of the RX-8 in the body of an RX-7 and I would be happy.
you said the exact same thing about rx-7s in the other thread. you can believe whatever you want but get your facts straight.

Originally posted by rxtacy

you said the exact same thing about rx-7s in the other thread. you can believe whatever you want but get your facts straight.

i'm sorry but he is right. although they suposedly solved all those problems on the new renesis engine especialy trough the relocation ov the valves and the elimination of the overlap.

Originally posted by rxtacy

you said the exact same thing about rx-7s in the other thread. you can believe whatever you want but get your facts straight.


Yes Polygon is very right- the seals in the FD are more reliable- but they still aren't reliable to the point where you can place faith in them


Also my experience with Rotaries is that they have a very weak top end- this is just my experience at the wheel of a semi-stuffed 20B Cosmo and a perfectly fine 13B FC RX7.


Polygon- You have pretty much shown how handlng is a subjective matter- I perfer the Supras handling methods- you perfer the Vipers Torquier handling and gruntier power- different strokes for different folks they say :D

Originally posted by rxtacy

you said the exact same thing about rx-7s in the other thread. you can believe whatever you want but get your facts straight.

Those are the facts. The 13B has a few engineering flaws. That is not my opinion, that is the way it is. I can understand why you don't believe me since you own one. There is a reason that they made the Renesis engine and changed a lot about it. Mazda ate too much in repair bills fixing people's 13Bs under warranty that is why Ford management took quite a bit if convincing to let them make the new RX-8.

Yep Jim, you hit it right on the head. Hell I would love to won a Supra, in fact I plan to have both a Supra and a Viper in my car collection someday. . . . . . someday. . . . . . .

Originally posted by Polygon


Those are the facts. The 13B has a few engineering flaws. That is not my opinion, that is the way it is. I can understand why you don't believe me since you own one. There is a reason that they made the Renesis engine and changed a lot about it. Mazda ate too much in repair bills fixing people's 13Bs under warranty that is why Ford management took quite a bit if convincing to let them make the new RX-8.

Yep Jim, you hit it right on the head. Hell I would love to won a Supra, in fact I plan to have both a Supra and a Viper in my car collection someday. . . . . . someday. . . . . . .
it's not the 13b that has the engineering flaws. there were some flaws with the cooling system, and a few other things when it was introduced in '93, but i don't think you can attribute any flaws to the engineering of the 13b. most of the trouble with owning an rx-7, and the reason they have a tainted reputation, is lack of support from the dealerships. since they were only made for the us '93-'95, by now, it would be obvious that most mechanics are not too familiar with such a different kind of engine. a few years ago was the worst times. if you needed engine work done and you took it to mazda, they'd fix the problem temporarily, but it would just need service again in like a year because of the poor jobs most of the dealerships did. i've heard of stories where the dealership will put their least experienced tech on the job of an rx-7 just because the more experienced one's refuse to work on it (because they had no clue what they were doing). that's why mazda "ate too much in repair bills." and the way i see it, ford probably introduced the rx-8 as an n/a so as to simplify maintenance for mazda mechanics, which was a good move. then after a while, they will be able to do turbos again when the market is right. yes i do have one, so i may be a bit biased, but also i know more about my car and it's history than those who have never owned a rotary. all i want to do is clear up misconceptions about the car that people may have. i just get upset when people make opinions based on information just because it's "common knowledge" rather than looking deeper into the subject for their own conclusions.

Look pal, I don't think you know how to read. The 13B has bad port overlap. This allows exhaust gasses to be in the combustion chamber. This causes the loss of power, this causes the bad emissions, and this causes the overheating issue. You can bet you pink slip that has to do with the apex seal problems as well. That is a design flaw in the engine which they have fixed with the Renesis.

That is just the way it is, sorry. I understand how you feel since you own one, but those are the facts, deal with it.

Originally posted by Polygon
Look pal, I don't think you know how to read. The 13B has bad port overlap. This allows exhaust gasses to be in the combustion chamber. This causes the loss of power, this causes the bad emissions, and this causes the overheating issue. You can bet you pink slip that has to do with the apex seal problems as well. That is a design flaw in the engine which they have fixed with the Renesis.

That is just the way it is, sorry. I understand how you feel since you own one, but those are the facts, deal with it.
damn, take it easy. no reason to get rude. i got all that info the first time. ok, so there is room for improvement on the engine but it is not the disaster you make it out to be. that's all i'm trying to say. if it's such a bad problem, then why are n/a rotaries capable of 200,000 + miles?

Originally posted by rxtacy

damn, take it easy. no reason to get rude. i got all that info the first time. ok, so there is room for improvement on the engine but it is not the disaster you make it out to be. that's all i'm trying to say. if it's such a bad problem, then why are n/a rotaries capable of 200,000 + miles?


Rotaries are capable of 200,000 miles WITHOUT any form of trashing- ie. Driven like a grandma car- If you do the slightest thing to overheat a 13B then you are screwed simple as that. I've seen it happen thousands of times before:)

Originally posted by Jimster



Rotaries are capable of 200,000 miles WITHOUT any form of trashing- ie. Driven like a grandma car- If you do the slightest thing to overheat a 13B then you are screwed simple as that. I've seen it happen thousands of times before:)
that goes without saying. ofcourse overheating the car is going to mess it up. why ya gotta critique everything?

Viper...dont have to modify it as much as the others...is more reliable than the RX7...and if you decide to mod it...it will go like SIN and wax all