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ANOTHER novice question! Badger vs Iwata?


cdbx
12-03-2010, 10:59 AM
I have a lot of questions I know,just trying to take advantage of some down-time to get re-started.

I have a Badger 200 and am going to add a dual action to my tools. I would like ANY-one's opinion on whether I would be better off with an Iwata Eclipse or a Badger Cresendo 175. I have done my research but always like to hear opinions of those who actually use the equipment.

1--for some reason I have the opinion that Iwaata is a top quality AB....is this true?

I spray mostly enamels and will be thinning w laquer on occasion ,building GP bikes and sports/f1 cars.

2--I 'm willing to spend up to 175.00 if their is a much better brush out there?

3--Also,does anyone use a AB with a gun-trigger? I'm interested in one of these with a bottom feed because my hands shake pretty severely due to a medication I have to take. It seems I would have better control with a set up
like this. I'm really wide open to any brand that y'all may recommend . Thanks again for your patience! Chris

stevenoble
12-03-2010, 11:55 AM
I could be wrong, but I'm not sure they do an Iwata trigger type with a bottom feed..?? Pretty sure they are all gravity fed...
I use the Tamiya Spraywork HG wide trigger airbrush and I've had years of excellent service from it with no problems whatsoever in all that time.
I don't think you will go wrong with any of the Iwata airbrushes, they are all top quality kit.

MPWR
12-03-2010, 12:15 PM
It does not matter at all if you spray with an Iwata or a Badger. I own both, I use both extensively, both companies make excellent airbrushes. I can't objectively say that one is superior to the other.

The important thing is that you use the right model Badger, or right model Iwata- and the Cresendo 175 is not on the list. I STRONGLY recommend that you select a dual action gravity fed airbrush. Do not bother with a side or bottom siphon feed model. Just don't go there.

Two models that I would recommend you consider are the Iwata Revolution HP-CR (http://www.iwata-medea.com/index.php/products/cr/) or the Badger 100 LG (http://www.badgerairbrush.com/BADGER_100.asp). You should be able to find either for $100 or less online- try online art supply shops (I've used Dixie Art and Chicago Airbrush Supply).

The Iwata has a nice feel to it, but it has a stiff trigger spring. Some people complain that in a long painting session, their trigger finger will start to hurt a bit. The Badger's is not quite as stiff. If there is a real advantage for the Iwata, it is that the spray nozzle and needle are universal- covering fine to wide applications. The Badger has multiple needles and heads to switch from medium to fine. I have both sets for my Badger, and almost never use anything but the medium setup.

Neither airbrush will paint a model better than the other. You won't go wrong with either.

klutz_100
12-03-2010, 12:48 PM
. I STRONGLY recommend that you select a dual action gravity fed airbrush. Do not bother with a side or bottom siphon feed model. Just don't go there.

Two models that I would recommend you consider are the Iwata Revolution HP-CR (http://www.iwata-medea.com/index.php/products/cr/) or the Badger 100 LG (http://www.badgerairbrush.com/BADGER_100.asp).

:iagree: :1:

However, having had both the Iwata Revolution CR and the Badger 100LG, for me there is no comparison. The Iwata wins hands down. I'm not saying the Badger is a bad brush or can't produce good results - it certainly can. But if my budget allows me to chose equally between the two, the CR gets my money.

Better quality build, easy usage, easy cleaning and the ,5 tip is versatile enough to do 1/24 bodies down to detail painting small parts.

The brush will do the job but ultimately it is still down to the user to learn the skills to use it through practice. IMHO there is no airbrush that paints perfectly all by itself :)))

PS I think that the "poor trigger finger" thing is a myth or a symptom of poor painting technique :)) :lol:

hirofkd
12-03-2010, 01:02 PM
I use three airbrushes depending on the type of job, two are single-action, and one is double-action..

2- If there are any Hobby Lobby branches nearby, you can use 40% off coupon, which is issued online almost every other week.

3- I'm a satisfied user of the Tamiya Spraywork HG trigger type. It's more comfortable than the push-button type, and works great for a uniform application on a wide surface for a long period of time, which is ideal for a car body (or even several bodies in one painting session). And when I need a delicate work, I use my double-action airbrush, instead.

ZoomZoomMX-5
12-03-2010, 01:04 PM
I have both airbrushes; the Badger is better for a high-flow setup, better for painting bodies; it goes through paint much faster, even with the medium or fine tip. The Iwata is better for everything else. It's a finer spray, better for doing detail painting (and better to spray decanted Tamiya clear in nice, thin coats that won't affect the color coats below it), and IMHO the gravity feed makes it far superior. Don't worry about shaky hands; I have had shaky hands forever, and it's not a problem...and they have a metal lid that fits over the reservoir. You save a ton of cleanup time and paint/thinners over time because the gravity feed brush shoots 100% of what goes into the reservoir. Cleaning up the siphon-feed equipment is messy and more time-consuming. I'd far prefer my 175 to be gravity feed.

The Iwata is definitely a higher-quality airbrush overall. For your budget, you can probably get both if you shop carefully.

There is a company called "Master" that makes Iwata clones; they have all kinds of airbrushes, and even gravity feed w/gun trigger. Prices are very reasonable.

360spider
12-03-2010, 01:33 PM
I have 2 Badgers and 3 Iwatas. Iwata is a hands down a better airbrush. Build quality, ease of use, and simply the way it feels in my hands.

gtziaf
12-03-2010, 02:18 PM
I had a Badger 175 Cressendo for more than 10 years....
Last summer I make myself a gift and I purcache my first Iwata (an Eclipse)...
By far, Iwata has an extreme quality feelling and friendly usage...
So, for this time, until now, I don't use my Cressendo any more...

Lownslow
12-03-2010, 03:40 PM
always had badgers from 150s to 175s i have 2 master airbrushes and theyre iwata knock offs cheap and can be fixed with iwata parts. once i get enough money im buying a Grex

Enzoenvy1
12-03-2010, 05:13 PM
My first and only airbrush is a Badger 150 and I honestly love it. When you learn the brush it becomes second nature to use. I have used other brands and siphon or gravity, but I am no master so a somewhat cheap Badger was perfect.

SmokeyR67
12-03-2010, 06:31 PM
Will you be sprayin metallics?

I like a cheap bottom feed for alclad, it's just easier to stir the pigment

John18d
12-04-2010, 09:58 AM
Chris - I have an Iwata revolution HP-CR, and it is a very versatile AB, but in all honesty - I've mentioned this before - I picked up a couple of AB's from a painting company off of eBay call TCP Global - they sell a brand of AB by the name "Master" and these are excellent AB's. They come in many different configurations - cups - needles - tips - single/dual - trigger etc. I bought one of their trigger dual action AB for applying my clearcoats and it works better than any of my 8 AB's and it only cost $50.00. It uses a trigger with an adjustment at the nozzle to allow for the amount of material you want to spray. The trigger keeps you finger from getting tired and it allows consistent application of paints and clears. - hope this helps in your decision - John

cdbx
12-04-2010, 12:47 PM
Thanks a lot guys for all the advice---Very very helpful.I have 2questions

1-what makes th gravity feed more desirable?

2-on the Iwata site the AB is called only a CR not an HP CR -I don't wanna buy the wrong one. What does HP stand for? Are these the same brush(CR and HP CR?)

Thanks again,Chris

klutz_100
12-04-2010, 01:24 PM
AFAIK there isn't an HP CR (but I may be wrong on this

Certainly the "CR" I personally had in mind is the Revolution Series CR (example here (https://airbrushes.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_9_46&products_id=3&osCsid=e8184c209c948e2d28214b0dee05be97))

The advantages of a gravity feed IMO are:
1. Easier to clean
2. Less wasted paint - you can dose as much or a s little as you want. With a syphon feed you need to put enough paint for it to "fill" up the feed piping and taht is all wasted when you clean
3. It really is possible to put 4 drops of paint straight into the cup to paint a small part and then flush clean in 4 minutes

Advantage of a syphon feed (I guess) is more paint for larger surfaces. Havig said that, the CR cup holds enough paint for a coat of a 1/24 body

Macio4ever
12-04-2010, 06:38 PM
Gravity fed, Jap manufactured. Iwata (CR, Hp-C, HP-CH, HP-CS), Gunze, Tamiya, Wave - win hands down :)

HP = High Performance

Gravity fed = easy clean, less paint to spray

Buy 0.3mm nozzle or biger for car modeling and you would be fine.

cdbx
12-04-2010, 09:07 PM
Hey Klutz, you said it holds enough for one coat of a 1/24--did you mean a full multi-coat paint job or truly only one coat?

cdbx
12-04-2010, 09:13 PM
Ok Macio thanks for breaking it down for me...Klutz did you mean one coat or one full multi-coat paint job?

klutz_100
12-04-2010, 09:23 PM
One coat. You don't need more than one coat at a time :)

I think that most would agree that one of the secrets to a good paint job is to take it slow, go one coat at a time and wet sand between coats. ( or maybe they won't... :rofl: )

MPWR
12-05-2010, 07:55 AM
The advantages of a gravity feed IMO are:
1. Easier to clean
2. Less wasted paint - you can dose as much or a s little as you want. With a syphon feed you need to put enough paint for it to "fill" up the feed piping and taht is all wasted when you clean
3. It really is possible to put 4 drops of paint straight into the cup to paint a small part and then flush clean in 4 minutes

These are all true- but another significant advantage to gravity fed airbrushes is the ability to spray with lower working pressures. A siphon feed airbrush relies on extra pressure from the compressor to draw paint up from the bottle. Often they will take 20psi or more to work reliably. A gravity feed airbrush does not need this extra pressure- the air pressure is used only to atomize the paint and not to feed it- this can often be done at 15psi and sometimes less.

Spraying properly thinned paint at low pressures is the best way to avoid texture in your paint (orange peel), especially on car bodies. This advantage, combined with the fact that they are much easier to clean than siphon airbrushes, is what makes gravity feed designs the better choice for car modeling.

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