i cant find the problem!!!!

hello i have a 2006 grand prix gt bought about 9 months ago tuned it three times full boltones e85 ran a 13.3 2 weeks later i take it bake to the track and it ran like shit
i got maf code or map
replaced both and the car did the same time

it misfires in high rpm

i get a blinking cel

my history of codes since the problem

p0171
p0107
u0107 ???
p0306
p0116

i am guilty of pouring water on the motor to cool it down before a race a couple of times people say that could of shorted it out

but hurrs my expierence

my fuel pressure drops from 60 to 58 ok i know that bad but i dont think that is enough to mess me up so bad

i am starting to belive its the wiring harness or the ecu
HURR THE WIERD PART!!!

ok so i conect a scan tool up to the computer at idle
it says 1.61 to 2.08 somthing/m
and the caclated load is 49 % with ac at idle

i have swapped 3! yes 3 maf sensors and the all have the same reading
i step the gas in park and the calc idle drops to 34% to 29%

ok so i test the 5 volt referecne wire that connects to the ecu

it 5.003 volts with the car off with the key forward i plug the maf and it drops to 2.5 i go to 3000 rpms in park and the voltagle fulcuates be tween 2.4 and 2.6 should it go up????

yes all three mafs have the same reading

the car can feel great ill get up and go fast!

the i turn it off and it will runn like a old tired dogg

please help me i am so stumped!!!!:banghead:

What is the voltage going to the MAF sensor read with the MAF unplugged key on? I thought MAF's get all 12v B+. Also does it have a good ground?

Why are you pouring water on your motor to cool it down? That can cause all sorts of issues up to and including cracked exhaust manifolds/ cracked heads or a block. Thats not a good idea.

Why not just install the ZZP electric water pump and wire it and your fans to on on/off toggle switch. That will cool down your car pretty quick. Along with that you could probably install a higher capacity radiator.

What is the voltage going to the MAF sensor read with the MAF unplugged key on? I thought MAF's get all 12v B+. Also does it have a good ground?

Why are you pouring water on your motor to cool it down? That can cause all sorts of issues up to and including cracked exhaust manifolds/ cracked heads or a block. Thats not a good idea.

Why not just install the ZZP electric water pump and wire it and your fans to on on/off toggle switch. That will cool down your car pretty quick. Along with that you could probably install a higher capacity radiator.

i was gunna buy that already but the this problems started!

yes it has good ground 12.43 volts the referecece wire is suppose to be 5 volts with the key on and it is but its suppose to increase and it doesnt increase a lot

P0306 is a cylinder 6 missfire. I'd start there as you could be tossing a lot of money into a motor with a chipped piston.

Have you done a compression test?

I dont know much about running and tuning for e85, but you have to run larger injectors, right? And if so, your PCM is tuned for larger injectors, right?

How many miles, and is thes a 3800NA or 3800SC motor?

P0306 is a cylinder 6 missfire. I'd start there as you could be tossing a lot of money into a motor with a chipped piston.

Have you done a compression test?

I dont know much about running and tuning for e85, but you have to run larger injectors, right? And if so, your PCM is tuned for larger injectors, right?

How many miles, and is thes a 3800NA or 3800SC motor?
the plugs look great it only misses at high speeds and sometimes the car felt great like it used too

and sometimes it feels horrible

i only got that code once

its a 3.800 sc

yes its tuned on 60# injecotor was making 290 whp 290 whtq no intercooler stock trans stock heads stock cam in 100 deg weather with a header leak

What all Mods do you have besides larger injectors, headers, and a customer tune?

What was your KR readings (WOT, Burst, cruising) at when you did your tune?

I still think a compression test would be a good idea first. Since a hairline crack in a piston can cause a problem much like you describe.

What all Mods do you have besides larger injectors, headers, and a customer tune?

What was your KR readings (WOT, Burst, cruising) at when you did your tune?

I still think a compression test would be a good idea first. Since a hairline crack in a piston can cause a problem much like you describe.
no man im sorry but im sure its a electrical problem

Maybe.

But the P0306 scares me. Plus the lean code.

Did you pour any water over the area of the coil packs and ignition control module?

Also, I'm confused on the fuel. Are you running E85 or premium unleaded at least 91 octane or better?

Did you pour any water over the area of the coil packs and ignition control module?

Also, I'm confused on the fuel. Are you running E85 or premium unleaded at least 91 octane or better?
im running e84 i was getting 15.5 mpg before this problem one e85 no im getting 14.6 and dropping

no i did not those codes and nothing its only caused by my electrical issue cuz the sensor isnt reading right my maf voltage doesnt increase it just flucates my idle cacledated load is 50 percent and drops to 30 percent at 3000 rpm

thats what scares me also my temp guage stoped working yesterday i went out there and disconnected the wires from my ecu and recconected them and wham it worked fine again

Tim did you understand what he was saying? :confused:.......:dunno:...........:lol:
Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.1-update1; en-us; DROIDX Build/VZW) AppleWebKit/530.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/530.17 480X854 motorola DROIDX

Tim did you understand what he was saying? :confused:.......:dunno:...........:lol:
Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.1-update1; en-us; DROIDX Build/VZW) AppleWebKit/530.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/530.17 480X854 motorola DROIDX
???

Tim did you understand what he was saying? :confused:.......:dunno:...........:lol:
Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.1-update1; en-us; DROIDX Build/VZW) AppleWebKit/530.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/530.17 480X854 motorola DROIDX

Hmmmmm, tough one.

I dont no if he got it 2 werk by re-seating the pcm plug, or if he still has issues.

I'm not even good at it when I'm doing it intentional.

well anyways i bought a zzp 350 pump cuz i tested my fuel pressure 60 psi at idle drop to 56 full load or 54 so im replacing it hopefully that helps with my leaness

:confused:

There is nothing wrong with your fuel pressure so why waste the money or continue spinning your wheels. For your engine fuel pressure should be in a range of 50-60 psi per the GM Factory Service Manual.

Further, you should not be running E85 gasoline especially with mods. Premium unleaded 91 octane or better. I don't recall any Grand Prix year or model being Flexfuel capable.

Final note is if you decide to change the fuel pump assembly unlike the '97-'03 GP models you have to drop the gas tank. There is no longer an access cover in the trunk area that can be removed.

:confused:

There is nothing wrong with your fuel pressure so why waste the money or continue spinning your wheels. For your engine fuel pressure should be in a range of 50-60 psi per the GM Factory Service Manual.

Further, you should not be running E85 gasoline especially with mods. Premium unleaded 91 octane or better. I don't recall any Grand Prix year or model being Flexfuel capable.

Final note is if you decide to change the fuel pump assembly unlike the '97-'03 GP models you have to drop the gas tank. There is no longer an access cover in the trunk area that can be removed.


on the new gtps i know theres no panel but i have a friend with a shop
and min fuel pressure is 60 psi and max is 62 i have read everywhere that fuel pressure is suppose to rise the more you press

on the older gtp the fuel pressure was lower look

soorry this is the only proof i could find

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Airtex-Master-Fuel-Pump/2006-Pontiac-Grand-Prix/_/N-jnn8eZ8vcz2?counter=0&filterByKeyWord=fuel+pump&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=87023_5356_0_

see min psi is 60 at 20 % throttle mine drops to 59 from 61 and continues to drop and why do i go lean at 130 mph???

Per the GM FSM fuel pressure is not to exceed 60 psi or you have a problem but we'll consider you have mods. Note the specs on that aftermarket fuel pump at your link is maximum 60 psi.

Going lean most likely because your fuel injectors are too big. 60#?

Just to be sure could you list all your engine mods? Do you have an intercooler, hot cam?

Per the GM FSM fuel pressure is not to exceed 60 psi or you have a problem but we'll consider you have mods. Note the specs on that aftermarket fuel pump at your link is maximum 60 psi.

Going lean most likely because your fuel injectors are too big. 60#?

Just to be sure could you list all your engine mods? Do you have an intercooler, hot cam?
fuel sucking mods:
1.95 roller rockers
105 springs
full 3 inch exhaust y pipe no res no cat
wizaired intake
60 pound injectors
motor mounts
pacesetter heADERS
ngk tr6
e85 which uses 42 more fuel than gasoline
a heavy foot

when i first switched to e85 car ran great for 2 weeks
people sat about 600 miles into e85 you should change you fuel filter cuz its gunna clog up due to the e85 cleaning up your tank
i have my fuel filter in my tank so its never been changed
i have gone lean before i ran full e85 with out a tune yes im stupid
and it feels like that at higher sppeeds
i cant get past one 30 cuz it jumps like its not getting enough feel

and all that with the stock fuel pump and also original fuel filter with 108 thousand miles

Per the GM FSM fuel pressure is not to exceed 60 psi or you have a problem but we'll consider you have mods. Note the specs on that aftermarket fuel pump at your link is maximum 60 psi.

Going lean most likely because your fuel injectors are too big. 60#?

Just to be sure could you list all your engine mods? Do you have an intercooler, hot cam?

strait from wiki
Fuel filter

If any of these conversion techniques are used, especially in older vehicles in which there may be rust or other residue present in the fuel tank, it may be necessary additionally to replace the fuel filter within 400 to 600 miles, as ethanol has a tendency to release any trapped rust or gasoline fuel gum or residue, which can cause the fuel filter to become blocked. Once replaced, life expectancy of the new fuel filter should be normal, barring an exceptionally dirty gas tank or fuel system.
Running E85 in a vehicle can actually improve fuel efficiency if the fuel delivery system was especially clogged up. This improvement remains if the vehicle is returned to operation on gasoline only.

Just so we all understand so you decided to do an E85 engine build. Correct? I realize on E85 builds you need more fuel supply and delivery but why did you decide to do this versus sticking with the conventional way we mod?

Who or what shop did your power tuning?

what is the conventianal way we mod?

Just so we all understand so you decided to do an E85 engine build. Correct? I realize on E85 builds you need more fuel supply and delivery but why did you decide to do this versus sticking with the conventional way we mod?

Who or what shop did your power tuning?
i got it done hurr in the valley dyno tune by de leon

just went to cut my hair hur and had the pressure guage set up 61 psi idle 10 percent throttle 59.5 psi
400 rpm 56psi
redline 53 psi

what is the conventianal way we mod?

Tuning to use unleaded fuel to include unleaded race gas and not fuel composition consisting of 85% alcohol. Personally I would not waste any time, resources or money doing an E85 build and running E85 fuel. :grinno:

Have you run a check of knock retard (KR)? Also, have your tuner double check the MAF settings. E85 builds require custom MAF/VAF tables which means doing alot of experimenting.

What are you short and long term fuel trims reading?

Tuning to use unleaded fuel to include unleaded race gas and not fuel composition consisting of 85% alcohol. Personally I would not waste any time, resources or money doing an E85 build and running E85 fuel. :grinno:

Have you run a check of knock retard (KR)? Also, have your tuner double check the MAF settings. E85 builds require custom MAF/VAF tables which means doing alot of experimenting.

What are you short and long term fuel trims reading?

idk i read them but didnt know how to read them at the time ill read them again in a bit

i just did a fuel volume test i got exactly 1 pint in 30 seconds with the engine idleing i think kinda low for the fuel demands i need???

idk i read them but didnt know how to read them at the time ill read them again in a bit

For long term or short term fuel trims using a scan tool capable of logging the data the ideal figure to achieve is 0 % but that will probably never happen. Ideal fuel trim = zero. Greater than zero indicates the PCM is adding fuel to compensate for the lean condition. If fuel trim is less than zero the PCM is reducing the amount of fuel to compensate for a rich condition.

The fuel trims are considered abnormal when you see the following on the scan tool on a L32 SIII 3800 or L67 SII 3800 engine.

LT fuel trim is greater than (+) (-) 17%. ST fuel trim greater than (+) (-) 2%.

If the fuel trims are really off a P0171 or P0172 DTC should set.

i just did a fuel volume test i got exactly 1 pint in 30 seconds with the engine idleing i think kinda low for the fuel demands i need???

I'm not an expert on E85 builds but IMO your fuel injectors are too large given the mods you have and for your whp. The figures I've seen are 30% for more fuel supply increase. The stock fuel injectors are rated at 33#. So 42.5# injectors are more in line with your particular E85 build and mods versus using 60#.

Also you might consider investing in your own powertuner like an HP Tuners kit if you plan on continuing to run E85.

For long term or short term fuel trims using a scan tool capable of logging the data the ideal figure to achieve is 0 % but that will probably never happen. Ideal fuel trim = zero. Greater than zero indicates the PCM is adding fuel to compensate for the lean condition. If fuel trim is less than zero the PCM is reducing the amount of fuel to compensate for a rich condition.

The fuel trims are considered abnormal when you see the following on the scan tool on a L32 SIII 3800 or L67 SII 3800 engine.

LT fuel trim is greater than (+) (-) 17%. ST fuel trim greater than (+) (-) 2%.

If the fuel trims are really off a P0171 or P0172 DTC should set.



I'm not an expert on E85 builds but IMO your fuel injectors are too large given the mods you have and for your whp. The figures I've seen are 30% for more fuel supply increase. The stock fuel injectors are rated at 33#. So 42.5# injectors are more in line with your particular E85 build and mods versus using 60#.

Also you might consider investing in your own powertuner like an HP Tuners kit if you plan on continuing to run E85.

every one thinks its 30 percent more its actually 42 percent

well think about it think way if i was maxing out my 33 # with gasoline

i easliy max out e85 on 42 thats why i decided to get the big dogs i was gunna get 80 # :rofl:

idk my cars maf lb per min or what every is 2.12 around there and calclload at idle is 40 percent

i have check numnerous cars that say .62 or .84 but not 2 at idle

oh i think about getting a power tuner every day i dont wanna pay no more

every one thinks its 30 percent more its actually 42 percent

well think about it think way if i was maxing out my 33 # with gasoline

i easliy max out e85 on 42 thats why i decided to get the big dogs i was gunna get 80 # :rofl:

idk my cars maf lb per min or what every is 2.12 around there and calclload at idle is 40 percent

i have check numnerous cars that say .62 or .84 but not 2 at idle

oh i think about getting a power tuner every day i dont wanna pay no more


Ok, now I'm Lost. :rofl:

Ok, now I'm Lost. :rofl:


lol sorry