Brake job NIGHTMARE - 1999 Alero
giant016
08-15-2010, 01:21 PM
Hi all, been awhile since I've been over here. Anyways, the essence of what I'd like to know is: what would cause the banjo bolt connecting the brake hose to the caliper to leak worse every time I put it on? It seems to be making a tight fit, but now it's leaking so bad that even with the car off (not pushing the brakes) fluid still leaks out at a decent pace. I cleaned all of the surfaces to try to create a good seal.
LONG STORY:
So I needed to replace my pads and rotors. My lazy ass did not suck any brake fluid out of the reservoir since I've done my other cars and never needed to. Well, when I compressed the cylinders a lot of fluid must have overflowed the reservoir. I didn't notice and just started the car back up and drove it. Damn. Got air in the brake lines.
So I was pissed, but from what I've heard bleeding the brakes isn't too big of a problem. Well, my car is EXTREMELY rusted on the bottom. Significantly more than any car I've seen of it's age, so much so that GM should be ashamed. Anyhow, I sprayed the bleeders with WD40 a few hours in advance to try to aid in breaking them free from the rust. The back two were pretty bad, and to top it off I have a full set of standard and metric wrenches, but not a single one could get a decent fit on the bleeders (are they metric-fine? I've never had this problem) so ended up breaking them loose but rounding them in the process. Got some new ones, put them in, no problem.
The fronts on the other hand were very corroded. I ended up needing to use my vice-grip sockets to grab onto them well enough, and both eventually broke off. I was able to get one out at the machine shop at my school, but the other I just got a new (refurbished) caliper since after coupons and core it was ~$13. Unfortunately I the cashier and I played musical boxes between the core and the new one, and in the process I gave them the banjo bolt that connects the brake line to the caliper. By the time I realized a few hours later they'd already shipped out my old one. As it turns out, nobody sells this damned bolt. Autozone says that they have it, but the thread is WAY too rough. After an entire day of searching I just pull one off of an Alero from a junkyard.
So I get home, put it in and try to bleed the rest of the system. Well, after giving the brakes a thorough thrashing to get all of the air out, it appears I have loaded the straw that broke the camel's back. My rusted car has lots of rusted brake line, and a portion I was not even touching began leaking. It is the part from the ABS hydraulic module to the front passenger caliper. It wouldn't normally be a big problem, however the whole line is so rusted I can't get any good meat to splice in new line to.
At this point my dad, who's worked on old machines his entire life (electrician), steps in. Looking at it he agrees we can't splice in line and need to put in a whole new section. To get the end off of the abs module, we take out the battery, battery plate, and need to disconnect a hose for the radiator to reach it. We soak the line with penetrating oil, but it is really rusted on there. I let the old man take a swing at this since a little too much force is going to make this situations significantly worse. He muscles it and puts so much force on it I'm amazed the lines don't all break. But this line will not come off. No way. Still working, he slips and snaps off a sensor in the abs module.
Realizing that this line isn't coming off I wrap it in some sort of shrinkwrap tape and electrical tape to plug it for the time being. It seems to be sufficient. I go around and double check all the connections and we try to bleed the brakes again. For now the ABS sensor is on the back burner. Well, at first all goes well, but after doing one corner I notice that the front driver's side is leaking a little. It's the banjo bolt I put in that connects the brake line to the caliper. I know it is on there tight, so I take it off and clean all of the surfaces so them meet flush, and tighten it down good again. The leak is worse this time. I look at the other wheels brakes to see how they're configured and they're all the same as the front driver's side. At this point it's leaking to bad that I don't even need to be pressing the brake to watch it leak, even though I have it on there very tight.
Any ideas what could be causing this? My dad says order a new bolt from a dealer and try that first. The local Olds service shop can't find the part number for it. We also may try making a gasket or getting some rubber O-rings.
LONG STORY:
So I needed to replace my pads and rotors. My lazy ass did not suck any brake fluid out of the reservoir since I've done my other cars and never needed to. Well, when I compressed the cylinders a lot of fluid must have overflowed the reservoir. I didn't notice and just started the car back up and drove it. Damn. Got air in the brake lines.
So I was pissed, but from what I've heard bleeding the brakes isn't too big of a problem. Well, my car is EXTREMELY rusted on the bottom. Significantly more than any car I've seen of it's age, so much so that GM should be ashamed. Anyhow, I sprayed the bleeders with WD40 a few hours in advance to try to aid in breaking them free from the rust. The back two were pretty bad, and to top it off I have a full set of standard and metric wrenches, but not a single one could get a decent fit on the bleeders (are they metric-fine? I've never had this problem) so ended up breaking them loose but rounding them in the process. Got some new ones, put them in, no problem.
The fronts on the other hand were very corroded. I ended up needing to use my vice-grip sockets to grab onto them well enough, and both eventually broke off. I was able to get one out at the machine shop at my school, but the other I just got a new (refurbished) caliper since after coupons and core it was ~$13. Unfortunately I the cashier and I played musical boxes between the core and the new one, and in the process I gave them the banjo bolt that connects the brake line to the caliper. By the time I realized a few hours later they'd already shipped out my old one. As it turns out, nobody sells this damned bolt. Autozone says that they have it, but the thread is WAY too rough. After an entire day of searching I just pull one off of an Alero from a junkyard.
So I get home, put it in and try to bleed the rest of the system. Well, after giving the brakes a thorough thrashing to get all of the air out, it appears I have loaded the straw that broke the camel's back. My rusted car has lots of rusted brake line, and a portion I was not even touching began leaking. It is the part from the ABS hydraulic module to the front passenger caliper. It wouldn't normally be a big problem, however the whole line is so rusted I can't get any good meat to splice in new line to.
At this point my dad, who's worked on old machines his entire life (electrician), steps in. Looking at it he agrees we can't splice in line and need to put in a whole new section. To get the end off of the abs module, we take out the battery, battery plate, and need to disconnect a hose for the radiator to reach it. We soak the line with penetrating oil, but it is really rusted on there. I let the old man take a swing at this since a little too much force is going to make this situations significantly worse. He muscles it and puts so much force on it I'm amazed the lines don't all break. But this line will not come off. No way. Still working, he slips and snaps off a sensor in the abs module.
Realizing that this line isn't coming off I wrap it in some sort of shrinkwrap tape and electrical tape to plug it for the time being. It seems to be sufficient. I go around and double check all the connections and we try to bleed the brakes again. For now the ABS sensor is on the back burner. Well, at first all goes well, but after doing one corner I notice that the front driver's side is leaking a little. It's the banjo bolt I put in that connects the brake line to the caliper. I know it is on there tight, so I take it off and clean all of the surfaces so them meet flush, and tighten it down good again. The leak is worse this time. I look at the other wheels brakes to see how they're configured and they're all the same as the front driver's side. At this point it's leaking to bad that I don't even need to be pressing the brake to watch it leak, even though I have it on there very tight.
Any ideas what could be causing this? My dad says order a new bolt from a dealer and try that first. The local Olds service shop can't find the part number for it. We also may try making a gasket or getting some rubber O-rings.
emt1134
08-15-2010, 03:02 PM
Dumb question, but did you remove the old copper washers from the brake hose before installing the new ones ? Also, sometimes you need to crank down on those things pretty tight to compress the new copper washers.
inafogg
08-15-2010, 03:12 PM
it s a fairly common problem but iv found that its the copper washers 1 on each side
of brake line. are you sure the washers are on?? maybe the old 1's are lying on the ground i reuse the washers 50% of time because the new washers leak
good luck
of brake line. are you sure the washers are on?? maybe the old 1's are lying on the ground i reuse the washers 50% of time because the new washers leak
good luck
giant016
08-15-2010, 03:52 PM
it s a fairly common problem but iv found that its the copper washers 1 on each side
of brake line. are you sure the washers are on?? maybe the old 1's are lying on the ground i reuse the washers 50% of time because the new washers leak
good luck
I used the old ones, I don't know where to get new ones. Where did you get them? One idea was that I tightened them so much (because they were leaking a little) that I damaged them, making them much worse. They are a soft copper. For whatever reason the washers are clearly not sealing correctly. If I could get new ones that would be perfect, but right now I think I'll make some gaskets or try to find something at a hardware store similar to a gasket or flat rubber O-ring.
of brake line. are you sure the washers are on?? maybe the old 1's are lying on the ground i reuse the washers 50% of time because the new washers leak
good luck
I used the old ones, I don't know where to get new ones. Where did you get them? One idea was that I tightened them so much (because they were leaking a little) that I damaged them, making them much worse. They are a soft copper. For whatever reason the washers are clearly not sealing correctly. If I could get new ones that would be perfect, but right now I think I'll make some gaskets or try to find something at a hardware store similar to a gasket or flat rubber O-ring.
emt1134
08-15-2010, 10:48 PM
I know some people get away with reusing the old ones, but this is usually never a good idea.. I say this because the old copper washers were conformed to the old caliper... Using the old washers on a new caliper will not mate correctly and there will be little gaps where the fluid will leak through... i don't know what brand caliper you bought, but they should have given you new washers along with it... since they did not, they are idiots.... Here is the AC Delco part number for those washers: 21012386.. Either go to your local parts store and get them, or order them online.. Let me know if you need any more info
inafogg
08-15-2010, 11:27 PM
I know some people get away with reusing the old ones, but this is usually never a good idea.. I say this because the old copper washers were conformed to the old caliper... Using the old washers on a new caliper will not mate correctly and there will be little gaps where the fluid will leak through... i don't know what brand caliper you bought, but they should have given you new washers along with it... since they did not, they are idiots.... Here is the AC Delco part number for those washers: 21012386.. Either go to your local parts store and get them, or order them online.. Let me know if you need any more info
the only reason i used the old one's is because the new one's leaked
BTW i'v never seen a new caliper w/out new washers
the only reason i used the old one's is because the new one's leaked
BTW i'v never seen a new caliper w/out new washers
giant016
08-16-2010, 07:35 AM
I know some people get away with reusing the old ones, but this is usually never a good idea.. I say this because the old copper washers were conformed to the old caliper... Using the old washers on a new caliper will not mate correctly and there will be little gaps where the fluid will leak through... i don't know what brand caliper you bought, but they should have given you new washers along with it... since they did not, they are idiots.... Here is the AC Delco part number for those washers: 21012386.. Either go to your local parts store and get them, or order them online.. Let me know if you need any more info
Thanks a bunch for the part number! Just ordered some.
the only reason i used the old one's is because the new one's leaked
BTW i'v never seen a new caliper w/out new washers
I bought a remanufactured caliper. It came with those poles for it the caliper bracket to float on, the bolts to hold those poles and a new set of those thin metal brackets that hold in the brakepads. No new banjo bolt, no new washers.
Thanks a bunch for the part number! Just ordered some.
the only reason i used the old one's is because the new one's leaked
BTW i'v never seen a new caliper w/out new washers
I bought a remanufactured caliper. It came with those poles for it the caliper bracket to float on, the bolts to hold those poles and a new set of those thin metal brackets that hold in the brakepads. No new banjo bolt, no new washers.
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