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Hard transmission shifting


guitarfish
08-09-2010, 06:13 PM
Hi guys,

My '02 Prix, 205K miles, is shifting hard (light load) from 1-2 and 2-3 after it's warmed up. It's my wife's car, I just drove it around for 15 min and was able to experience the symptoms. A couple times after it shifted, it had a light shudder, as if it were having trouble releasing the previous gear, if that makes sense.

I'm the original owner, I changed the fluid & filter about every 50K miles, and it's been great up to this point. I expect I'll be getting it to a shop for a check (there's a reputable place about 45min away), but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts as to what's going on, and what the repair may entail? I plan to keep this car a minimum of 2 more years.

And also, if it comes down to it, does anyone know what a rebuild runs on the 4T60Es? Thanks!

GTP Dad
08-09-2010, 06:24 PM
Take the car to AAMCO for a diagnostic. They will do it for free. This sounds like a bad pressure control solenoid or a bad shift solenoid. They will be able to tell within a few minutes what may be going wrong. They can also rebuild it for you if necessary. Of course most tranny shops will do the same thing for you. I have had two transmissions done by AAMCO and I thought the cost was quite reasonable. They also warranty their work!

guitarfish
08-09-2010, 06:29 PM
Take the car to AAMCO for a diagnostic. They will do it for free. This sounds like a bad pressure control solenoid or a bad shift solenoid. They will be able to tell within a few minutes what may be going wrong. They can also rebuild it for you if necessary. Of course most tranny shops will do the same thing for you. I have had two transmissions done by AAMCO and I thought the cost was quite reasonable. They also warranty their work!

Thank you for the quick reply. Just out of curiosity, what did your rebuilds run you?

richtazz
08-10-2010, 07:59 AM
My car was doing the same thing, mostly 1-2 shift, and when going to OD, as well as occasionally lunging at a stop. I thought for sure it was trans related. I had the wife drive while I watched data on my scan tool, and every time it acted up, the MAF signal dropped out. I had a good "test part" MAF, and it cured the problem. Before you go looking into getting trans work done, have the car scanned. MAF's aren't cheap ($150-$200), but only take a couple minutes to install, and still much cheaper than trans work.

guitarfish
08-10-2010, 08:01 AM
My car was doing the same thing, mostly 1-2 shift, and when going to OD, as well as occasionally lunging at a stop. I thought for sure it was trans related. I had the wife drive while I watched data on my scan tool, and every time it acted up, the MAF signal dropped out. I had a good "test part" MAF, and it cured the problem. Before you go looking into getting trans work done, have the car scanned. MAF's aren't cheap ($150-$200), but only take a couple minutes to install, and still much cheaper than trans work.

So Rich, if I pulled the plug on the MAF for a few days, and the symptoms were to go away completely, then this could be a good diagnostic, no?

richtazz
08-10-2010, 08:11 AM
yes, with the car off, if you disconnect the MAF then start the car, if your issue is MAF related, it should go away. It will take a short adjustment period for the idle to stabilize and the CEL will come on due to the MAF being upplugged, but the car will be driveable until you can replace the MAF.

tblake
08-10-2010, 06:47 PM
Also dont forget to have it scanned with a trans capable scanner. Look for the GM extended DTC P1811. If that pops up, refir to this posting in our tips and maintenance subforum.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=920671

Does the car make any high pitched whining noise while driving?

guitarfish
08-10-2010, 07:05 PM
Thanks tblake. No detectible whining. I pulled the MAF, I need to take it for a test drive next.

GTP Dad
08-10-2010, 07:14 PM
To answer you question on rebuilds a Chrysler Mini Van cost me $1700 and my Pontiac GTP Cost $2400 for total rebuild but it was completely shot. They gave me a 3 year 36K warranty on the GTP. Based on the other replies I hope it isn't the transmission but a scan is always the best way to go and the cheapest.

tblake
08-10-2010, 09:32 PM
My money is on P1181 DTC stored in the PCM for this one.

richtazz
08-11-2010, 08:18 AM
That's why I suggested getting the car scanned Tim, I guess I should have specified with a trans code capable scan tool. I was sure my car's issue was trans related by my symptoms, especially the lunging at a stop, but it wasn't. No codes at all (chassis, trans or emissions) but the MAF sensor was dropping out. I would never had thought a MAF sensor could cause lunging at a stop, but it did. I figured the MAF test was easy and free, might as well give it a shot.

tblake
08-11-2010, 05:06 PM
Mine did that too Rich when my MAF went out. Almost felt like the TCC was stuck on. Or letting the clutch out too fast on a manual trans car. I limped mine home that night and by the time I pulled into the driveway I had an SES light pointing at the MAF. The rest was history.

dwc1435
08-13-2010, 09:00 AM
hello. I have a 2000 grand prix with a 3.1 motor. I had a problem with my passenger side strut bearing. I bought the brand new one and put it on and buttoned it up. After that i took it for a ride, and it steers perfect going towards the passenger side, But when you go about0-40 mph now it does not turn to the drivers side well, it buttons right up and gets hard. today i replaced both front struts and it does it still. just need some insight to what it might be causing the hard turn to the left.

I did replace the drivers side tie rod, and on that drivers side, there is no play in the lower control arm. The pass lower control arm has a little play. thanks for any help. Syr i know this isnt the thread but i need help.

guitarfish
08-13-2010, 09:07 AM
hello. I have a 2000 grand prix with a 3.1 motor...
Please post this message as a new thread.

guitarfish
09-02-2010, 12:39 PM
Well guys, I had my wife's car checked out today at a reputable, privately owned transmission shop in the area. As predicted, they found a P1811 Max Adapt Log Shift code. They said that considering the miles (205K) this isn't unexpected. Of course, for a guy who got at least 225K on two previous Prix's, it's unexpected to me. :crying:

They said a full rebuild would run between $2,000-2,500. At that point I coughed up a furball and thanked them for their time.

The car is a GT, not a GTP - does it have a 4T60, or 4T65? If BNaylor's accumulator shift mod will work on my model trans, I will give it a try. I need to get 2 more years (20K miles) out of this car before I was planning to get rid of it.

tblake
09-02-2010, 05:00 PM
Your 2002 GP GT has the 4t65e trans. The shift kit Bob references will work in your trans. Might as well give it a shot. What have you got to lose? An hour of your time and 50 bucks worth of a shift kit/filter, and trans fluid? Small price to pay in my opinion to avoid rebuilding the trans.

guitarfish
09-02-2010, 05:27 PM
Your 2002 GP GT has the 4t65e trans. The shift kit Bob references will work in your trans. Might as well give it a shot. What have you got to lose? An hour of your time and 50 bucks worth of a shift kit/filter, and trans fluid? Small price to pay in my opinion to avoid rebuilding the trans.

I agree. I'm going to start with the Seafoam and let it do its thing for a couple weeks, and then do the mod. Thanks all for the help!!

tblake
09-02-2010, 07:45 PM
Good idea. Let us know how it turns out.

richtazz
09-07-2010, 09:34 AM
Bummer on the 1811 code, I hope the kit fixes it for you.

guitarfish
10-09-2010, 03:31 PM
Well folks, I installed the ZZ Performance kit today. Just under 2 hours from putting it on the ramps to turning off the garage lights. I took it for a quick spin around the block, it felt perfectly normal. We'll see what my wife reports as she drives it over the next week. If this mod will buy me some time, that would be great news. Thanks all for the help and advice with this one!

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