NHTSA expands Ford Windstar corrosion probe to front subframes

Those active on this forum are aware of the investigation into Windstar rear axle problems due to corrosion.

Looks like NHTSA is also looking at front subframe corrosion problems:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/30/report-nhtsa-expands-ford-windstar-corrosion-probe-to-front-sub/

The rear axle and front subframe concerns are for 1999-2003 model years.
So if your Windstar is in that range....then a look-see might be in order ASAP.

Amazing. They told me three weeks ago that the rear axle was cracked and needed to be replaced to pass inspection - about $600-$700. Also mentioned that there was front corrosion as well and wasn't too far behind. I reported it to the NTSB three weeks ago. Maybe it did some good? Now I don't need to look for a new car. I was going to junk it in Sept.

Thanks phil-l and wiswind!

Thanks,
AvalomJohn

Great. I wish they'd do it for our Maxima.

My 99 Windstar is currently in the shop to replace the front subframe. It was totally rusted through. My steering gear started jumping on the rack all of the sudden one day on the way to work. I'm glad I parked it the next day. could've been bad.

Here is a good article on this topic. This worries me more than the axle situation.
Please be safe and check your vans out for this. It appears that structural failure in this area is very dangerous.
http://www.suite101.com/content/ford-windstar-rusting-subframe-an-increasingly-unsafe-condition-a291176

Great. Looks like I'll be taking my van to the shop next week (not the dealer but a local shop whom I've done business with before). Geeze- you'd think at this point in time automakers should be able to build a vehicle that won't rust out in 10-12 years.

No worries on my front subframe. The motor leaks too much oil to allow any rust. :D

I just bought a 2000 Windstar. should I be afraid?

I just bought a 2000 Windstar. should I be afraid?

No, not if you believe in divine intervention.

For those that don't believe in divine intervention, try an ounce of prevention and inspect (or have it inspected) you rear axles and subframes. I guess I'm pulling out the ramps and creeper this weekend.

No, not if you believe in divine intervention.

For those that don't believe in divine intervention, try an ounce of prevention and inspect (or have it inspected) you rear axles and subframes. I guess I'm pulling out the ramps and creeper this weekend.

My van is going straight to the dealer next week to be fully inspected, I dont want it falling apart with family in it. Just not happening. :nono:

On Dec. 20, 2010 the investigation by NHTSA on the subframe corrosion was upgraded to an Engineering Analysis. Here is the link: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/results.cfm
If you have a windstar within the scope of this investigation and you live in the "salt belt" states I suggest you have the subframe inspected.

my 99 is still at dealer waiting for the rear axle to come in since september should i hold off until the axle is in and more on subframe investigation is finalized. also on axle has anyone recieved theirs back with the new axle yet.

I would make sure the dealer inspects the subframe. I think that until their hand is forced they won't be doing any free fixes. This way they can tell you if they think it is dangerous or not. Also this will document that you had them look at that issue.
Our local dealer checked it out when they did a service and said it looked fine, it has more surface rust than I like, but it only had 69K miles (2002) when it was examined.
I think they will do a recall eventually. My axle was looked at and passed their inspection. I hear that they will make some kind of brace for those axles that have no cracks and don't need replacement.

Recall notice has arrived to have the vehicle subframe inspected. I hope all Windstar owners get their notices soon and have them inspected.
I was wondering what the buy out offers will be for a 2002 Windstar with 72K miles will be. Any ideas??

I have kept the van washed underneath as much as possible, but there is a lot of surface rust on the subframe still.
Has anyone been given dates from dealerships when the repairs will take place for those vehicles that do not get "bought out"?

Just dropped my 02 in for that axle inspection and when called back to check about them checking the front sub frame, was told that yes they would be looking into both problems.

In the meantime, I have a brand new Dodge Dakota 4x4 club cab with 22 km on it provided by Enterprise Rentals :biggrin::biggrin:

Will suck having to climb back into the Windstar...lol

Can someone post a pic of what it should look like? My dealer can't get me in until April 13th to check it and the rear axle. I would really like to check it myself before driving it for the next month and a half.

Hope you enjoy your new truck! My van goes in a week from today for the axle bracket installation and to have the sub frame inspected. It is a 2002 with 72K miles and I wash underneath frequently so hopefully the sub frame is not too bad. The axles passed inspection so they will only be putting the braces/brackets on them and need to keep the van overnight for the paint to dry.
Of course I would not mind a new rental car for awhile though.

I heard they will not be buying anymore back??/
Also I was just under mine and it look fine still plenty of black paint no rust on it near the arm mount.

I just bought a 2000 Windstar. should I be afraid?

Even if you do not have a subframe problem.....you shall be very afraid as Windstars are monsters of troubles..one after the other.

I bought it brand new in 98 and till today I regret it.:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghe ad:

Last Weds. my van had the sub frame inspected and it failed. I was surprised for it is a 2002 with only 72K miles and I keep the underside washed regularly (especially in the winter). Ford states it is fixable and they will install brackets when they become available. I was unaware of sub frame brackets being an option for repair. How can brackets fix sub frames that are clearly disintegrating? For now we have a 2011 Malibu rental to drive and the dealer has NO idea how long it will take to get the brackets in to fix the sub frames. I have two questions:
1 - Is there any time frame on sub frame parts/repairs? I know there are people that have been driving rental cars for several months waiting for axles. My axle got the reinforcement braces installed the day they took the car out of service for the sub frame.
2 - Is there actually a "fix" for the sub frame using only brackets? I question the quality of that fix for the whole frame assembly looks suspect and poorly made/designed.
I appreciate any responses.
Ed

It only took me 2 months to realize I was not me without my Windstar...lol bought another. Glutton for punishment. I too would like to know if anyone has answers to Ed's questions. If it is going to sit for months, I'd rather it sits at home so I can start the bodywork:)

for what it's worth, I took my van into Ford to set up the inspection. I'm in Canada, mid north Ontario, and the service guy told me that they've been buying them back. Mine is a 2000 and he said they've been paying between $6k and $8k, which I think is fantastic. I've taken good care of my van but the subs are rusty. My inspection is Apr 14th so I'll post an update once I get it back.

p

Thanks.

My own update on this topic: I started this thread, but didn't get my own van into Ford for the front subframe inspection until yesterday.

I just got off the phone with the dealer. The right-rear mount for the front subframe has enough corrosion that Ford says it's unsafe to drive. It appears this is the most common corrosion location. They estimate a 1 to 2 month wait for parts.

Personally, this is tough timing: I'm supposed to be driving to a campground this weekend with a popup camper in tow for the kids' spring break (the Windstar is my only tow vehicle; note that rental agreements generally don't allow trailer towing).

Not yet sure how to proceed...

well Phil, personally, I think I'd regret an accident much more than not getting to a camping trip. I know where I'd be "going" with this situation. FWIW, it sux all round.

p

Agreed - but it's still tough on the family life, and I've only got a few days to come up with a solution.

Meanwhile, we ended up with a spiffy F-150 as a rental. If only it had a hitch and rental agreements allowed towing. Hopefully the campground will let us out of the camp site reservation without hassle. This campground is large enough that they also have small rental houses available. Of course, coming up with one during our school system's spring break may be quite a trick...

It is very inconvenient, I agree.
Does anyone know what they are doing with the buyback vehicles? They are coming and taking them from the dealers lots, but no idea where they are headed to. Just really curious. Crusher?

We should get a list of VINs from buyback Windstars - and find someone with a CARFAX subscription to see what happens to the VIN over time.

I'm sure Ford wants them off the road in a manner that guarantees no future liability. I hope useful parts of pulled from them beforehand - to help us keep the rest of them running!

If you're curious, here are some pictures of my front subframe's mount points. The corrosion on the right-rear mount point is bad enough that that dealer took it off the road:

http://community.webshots.com/album/580053878yDkyvG

My fronts were good but have you checked out the "fix" for the rear axle? Two honking big band clamps, a bucket of tar and some spray foam shot into the axle.

Looks like something I'd do if I was trying to rig a repair on the side of the road. :D

When I dropped off my van at the dealer for the inspection, the service adviser commented that the rear axle fix was pretty ugly looking! And my adviser was very familiar with the situation: He had a Windstar that was bad enough that it qualified for the buy-back.

Has anyone seen what the front subframe repair parts look like yet?

If you're curious, here are some pictures of my front subframe's mount points. The corrosion on the right-rear mount point is bad enough that that dealer took it off the road:

http://community.webshots.com/album/580053878yDkyvG

Are they kidding, that does not look that bad. Shoud have seen my sons 67 mustang, they should have recalled that one.

My 96 looks worse than that, will have to take a close look this weekend. No recall involved on that one.

Are they kidding, that does not look that bad. Shoud have seen my sons 67 mustang, they should have recalled that one.


You're right - and Ford's response on the Windstar is a realistic view of how far consumer law has come, as well as expectations of modern vehicles. When I was a kid, a 10 year old car likely had a number of rust holes, if not worse (my family had a '76 Vega - so I know just how bad unibody rust can get). Problems like the Windstar's rear axle and front subframe wouldn't have been unexpected for a decade-old car in that era.

Vega, the car that rusted in the showroom. I put a 350/370horse engine in 1 during the late 70's. Was 1 of the quickest cars in my area till I twisted the unibody so bad that the windshield broke and the drive shaft fell out on the road. There was not 1 weld left that was not ready to break if it had not already broken.

Has anyone seen what the front subframe repair parts look like yet?

I saw pictures, they are pieces that kind of sandwich the rear part where it connects to the body, and the front parts where the control arms connect, they are kind of like brackets that fit where the old bracket-type was (or what's left of it)...if that makes sense lol. The service advisor showed them to me on the computer, so I don't have them to share. They look safe. Much better than the rear axle fix looks.
If it is cracked in any places besides these two, that is when they buy them back, or if it has been non-factory welded.
As far as I know the front subframe "fix" pieces are still not available yet though. I am definitely finishing my bodywork before my car goes in and sits for the summer lol. Of course with my last Windstar, I put all that time into it all summer and fall only to sell it to Ford...hmmm.

Can someone please tell me how the buy-back works.

Is the buy-back option offered to Windstar owners (affected by the subframe/axle recalls) regardless whether or not the axle and subframe are ok?

Or will Ford only offer the buy back IF the axle or subframe are unsafe?

If you choose to get a rental, can you change your mind and decide to go with the buy-back BEFORE they fix the Windstar?

We have a 2000 Windstar LX (3.0L V6). It passed axle inspection. It goes back to the dealer in 2 weeks for the axle brace and inspection of the subframe.

I checked the subframe. There's rust, but no cracks. It could still go either way (pass/fail). I'd like to get an idea ahead of time whether I should start looking for another vehicle or not.

Thanks.

OffTiming, they will not always offer a buyback, even if one of the recalls fails. My Windstar failed the rear axle recall; I was in a rental for about 2 months. They checked the front subframe at the time they were installing the rear axle, it passed. Not sure if they would have given me a buyback offer had it failed also. AFAIK, the buyback offer will come before they fix anything, and if you're already in a rental, they may still offer to buy it back.

Thanks Brandynr. I guess I'll have to wait and see. Part of me wants to keep the winnie. I really love it as a highway cruiser. But part of me wishes they'd buy it back....easy way to sell it.

Here is a link with some recent Q&A with a Ford Rep. http://usedcars.about.com/od/avoidingproblems/a/Ford-Answers-On-Windstar-Axle-And-Subframe-Recall-More-Elusive.htm
I don't really like some of his answers. I also question how brackets will be a safe answer. I don't trust the structural integrity of the entire subframe, not just at the mounting points. 2002 windstar with 72 K miles will probably be too costly to be offered a buy out. Got the rental car first week in March and the lot above Feduke Ford is full of vans parked in tightly. There are over 40 vans there now. Sort of hard to believe the vans are getting started and moved around for preventative maintenance. Just wait till the people start fighting with the dealers over bad tires, dead batteries or rodent damage to all the vans that are sitting around.

Here is a link with some recent Q&A with a Ford Rep. http://usedcars.about.com/od/avoidingproblems/a/Ford-Answers-On-Windstar-Axle-And-Subframe-Recall-More-Elusive.htm

Ha, just like talking to a machine or a bot, same answer again and again...

Any front brackets in yet, anyone heard?

To my surprise, Ford finished my van a couple days ago. They had it for about two weeks - after claiming it would take 1 to 2 months to get the parts. Someone at Ford was under a lot of pressure to get those parts.

I took some quick pictures of both the front subframe fix, as well as the rear axle reinforcement:

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/580053878yDkyvG

I'm actually pretty impressed with the front subframe fix: They've added quite a bit of metal.

The rear axle reinforcement isn't much to look at. Thankfully, I knew my axle was in pretty good shape, so I'm not very concerned.

Great pics Phil! Thanks.

WOW. That's a lot of iron. Thanks Phil.

My wife's 2000 Windstar goes in tomorrow (Tuesday). Now I know what to expect.

Thanks, Phil!

Well, the wife just called. The Ford stealership told her the rear axle and subframe are intact. They're going ahead and installing the band-aids. The stealership went on to say that the front brakes need to be replaced, $500. We told them to go ahead with the recall fixes, but the brake job gets done at my "trusted" mechanic.

So, it looks like out Winnie is going to carrying an extra few pounds for all that extra iron they're adding to the axle and subframe.

My winstar in for recall. i have already replaced rear axle. my subframe at right rear was split and i understand that bandaid bracket is ok. i let dealer know my subframe started rusting on left side ahead of lower control arm mount and i welded it. They stated that the subframe meets recall guidelines for repair. Any thoughts?:nono:

i let dealer know my subframe started rusting on left side ahead of lower control arm mount and i welded it. They stated that the subframe meets recall guidelines for repair. Any thoughts?:nono:

I would let 'em (re)fix it, quality of the work will be Ford's responsibility not just yours. And it's free to boot.

Well I got the call from the dealership that the van was fixed (sub frame brackets) and then I was told that it would not pass inspection in NYS for it was showing a misfire code. That is a no brainer for the van with wonderful ethanol blended gas sat for three months from freezing cold to very hot temps. I ran the crappy old gas out, cleared the codes and got 110 miles on it and now it is running like crap again and I got the check engine light on it again. Nice. I can't get it inspected with this situation and Ford and the Dealership say that this is nothing that is covered. I spent an hour on the phone with Ford and was told the same thing. Any suggestions on a fix? I ran it down to almost empty. It actually started running fine when I got down to a quarter of a tank. Then I filled it up with fresh gas from a busy gas station with 87 octane, put two bottles of octane boost to treat 30 gallons and a can of sea foam. It ran fine for about 60 miles and now it is running like crap. Should I change the fuel filter? It was new last summer, but I am thinking it is full of crap now. Why would the van run good as it was running below 1/8 tank and then start running like crap again after I filled it up as described above?
Thanks,
Ed

What brand gas? It may not make a difference since you used additive, but I know my Windstar only liked Mobil gas...no idea why but it would run like crap with anything else.

Brand of gas has never mattered. Just sitting three months did. I just picked up a fuel filter. It is worth it to try replacing it anyway.

1999 Windstar SEL, 54,524 miles-sub-frame rusted through on sway bar mount.
After last recall, 11S16 Front sub-frame, lower control arm at end of May 2011, there was noise in turning right. June 3, I went back to dealer and he told me the above!!! I was shocked and they said that it was not part of the recall and they could get a used one once done with investigating. Ford manufactured new ones that cost $2,200.00 but will only give to warranty customer. Now who has a warranty from 1999? They could get me a used one that would come in a week and the cost of it plus labor and taxes would be around $1,500.00!!! I have been out of work since Oct 2009 and looking for work but I am a little afraid each time I drive to an interview because this is a safety issue. I have complained to safercar.gov as well as other places. I have written Ford Motor Corp. and no one seems to want to do anything about this safety issue because I live in the "salt-belt". Does anyone have any suggestions?

I took my '99 Windy to local Ford dealer for inspection of sub frame & rear axle. My sub frame was so badly rusted that I could no longer drive it. Rear axle looked good to me. Ford says Sub frame will be replaced NC and rear axle is OK. Since this van is not worth much money-wise I will be glad to get it back as it runs well. It does have some electrical issues like gauges going crazy and no rear right brake light. Probably a bad ground or more rust.

Beware of rear axles that "look" good: As I understand it, the failure starts with a very small crack that grows quickly.

The rear brake light assemblies are actually pretty well protected from corrosion (I'm familiar with mine as the result of a trailer hookup wiring project). It's a straightforward job to remove the light assembly and check the wiring.