!!!!!! Serious Decision !!!!!!!


Vizzion
05-09-2003, 11:29 PM
Sorry to bother ya'll with a question that has probably been posted, This being the Millionth time but I have a question? Which is best to go with
B18 or B16! I'm picking one up this weekend. I do know a little about the B18 but would like to know what ya'll think since I know alot of ya'll have done this swap. By the way I have a 88 Honda Civic CRX Si. I have been concentrating more on the B18, but I'm not sure just yet.
Thanks

SiRII
05-10-2003, 03:05 AM
go b18. but it really doesn't matter. you can tweak any engine to your likings. especially honda b-series engines

PWMAN
05-10-2003, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Vizzion
Sorry to bother ya'll with a question that has probably been posted, This being the Millionth time but I have a question? Which is best to go with
B18 or B16! I'm picking one up this weekend. I do know a little about the B18 but would like to know what ya'll think since I know alot of ya'll have done this swap. By the way I have a 88 Honda Civic CRX Si. I have been concentrating more on the B18, but I'm not sure just yet.
Thanks

I would say go B16 for several reasons. I'm also assuming JDM specs.
First the B16 costs about 1200 for a complete swap, except mounts of course. The B18C1 costs about 3000 dollars for a complete swap minus the mounts. The B16 has 160 HP, the B18 has 180, are you willing to pay that much more for 20 HP?
Second, the B18 has a hydraulic tranny, so your either going to have to buy a cable trans, or do a hydraulic conversion - which is a pain in the ass.
Third, the B16 comes with a cable transmission.
And lastly, the B16 is just as easy to get parts for as the B18, so its not like your going to have to do without parts or pull your hair out trying to find parts.
The only advantage is that the B18 will have more torque - but you don't need it in such a light car. So my opinion is to go with the B16, hope this helped and good luck.

SiRII
05-10-2003, 05:34 PM
or you can get the SiRII motor. It's almost the same price as the US spec b16a

PWMAN
05-10-2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by SiRII
or you can get the SiRII motor. It's almost the same price as the US spec b16a

Yes but it has hydraulic clutch. SIR1 has cable, and only 10 less HP that the SIRII.

crxlvr
05-10-2003, 09:37 PM
i say get the b16, its less of a hassle.

SiRII
05-11-2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by crxlvr
i say get the b16, its less of a hassle.

and more reliable

PWMAN
05-11-2003, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by SiRII


and more reliable

HUH? At first you said go with the B18, did you change your mind?

SiRII
05-11-2003, 12:17 PM
both are good. but the b18 utilizes the b16a head. you can stroke a b16a to 1.8 liter anyways. so it doesnt matter what engine you get.

B16EJ1
05-11-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by SiRII
both are good. but the b18 utilizes the b16a head. you can stroke a b16a to 1.8 liter anyways. so it doesnt matter what engine you get.

The B18 does not utilize the b16 head. What the hell are you talking about? The b16 has overall a better flowing head than the b18.

SiRII
05-11-2003, 02:52 PM
but the b18 head is slightly stronger.

B16EJ1
05-11-2003, 02:58 PM
" Stronger "? What does that mean? If you mean springs and retainers you are still incorrect. Overall the b16 head is better than the b18.

PWMAN
05-11-2003, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by B16EJ1
" Stronger "? What does that mean? If you mean springs and retainers you are still incorrect. Overall the b16 head is better than the b18.

That is correct

SiRII
05-11-2003, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by B16EJ1
" Stronger "? What does that mean? If you mean springs and retainers you are still incorrect. Overall the b16 head is better than the b18.

no. i would have said springs and retainers are stronger. i'm talking about the head alone.

crxlvr
05-11-2003, 06:09 PM
the head alone is in no way "stronger" in design or material, the b16 has a btter flowing head and stronger internals than the b18 does.

liquid8
05-11-2003, 06:11 PM
the b16 head is better the only reason that the gsr motor has 10 more horses is cuz of it's displacement. well not the only reason but the main reason

SiRII
05-11-2003, 10:50 PM
ALANIZ is a racing cylinder head porting and flow testing center formed in April of 2001.


http://alaniztechnologies.com/images/b16vsgsrstock.jpg

B16EJ1
05-11-2003, 11:42 PM
Did you read what that company said about the comparison? Probably not huh? Basically what we all have been telling you, that the B16 head is still better. Here's a link to the whole article and not just the graph that shows both heads perform equally.


http://www.alaniztechnologies.com/techarticles.html

SiRII
05-11-2003, 11:47 PM
b16 for top end and b18 for torque

B16EJ1
05-11-2003, 11:56 PM
Where do you think the B18C gets more torque from the head or diplacement and stroke? Yes the B18 head produces more torque but the numbers are still minute. The torque that the B18C lays down is not at all dependant on the head. If it was then the design of the Type R head would be based of the GSR/SIR-G and not the B16A, don't you think?

SiRII
05-12-2003, 12:11 AM
that's what it said at the end of the alaniz article.

edman24
05-12-2003, 12:12 AM
first of all ive read quite a few of SiRII posts and i must ask you man, where the hell do you get your info??? not one thing you said has made any sense man! im not clowning you but stop giving people the wrong info. like what the hell do you mean by the b16 has a stronger head? what is that? anyways if i had the choice i would spend the extra money and go with the b18 for a few reasons. these people talking about, is it worth the money for only 10-20 hp. thats so wrong its not even funny. for the b16 to compare in power and torque with the b18 youd more then make up the difference of the price of engines with the mods youd need. not to mention the b18 has much more tuning capabilities. and yes you could bore the block and it would be the same thing but that requires custom machining that could get messed up, and new pistons. why waste that money when you can buy a FACTORY built 1.8 liter? so what if the b16 head flows a little better? slap on some new cams to the b18 and go bang some people. at least thats what i would do.

SiRII
05-12-2003, 12:17 AM
all in all. everyone has there own opinion. people say this people say that.

B16EJ1
05-12-2003, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by SiRII
that's what it said at the end of the alaniz article.

actually the article said nothing to that effect

SiRII
05-12-2003, 12:53 AM
"In my opinion the B16 is a better head in 100% stock trim because more top end power can be made while the GSR flow characteristics soot better volumetric efficiency numbers which mean better torque figures"

B16EJ1
05-12-2003, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by B16EJ1
Where do you think the B18C gets more torque from the head or diplacement and stroke? Yes the B18 head produces more torque but the numbers are still minute. The torque that the B18C lays down is not at all dependant on the head. If it was then the design of the Type R head would be based of the GSR/SIR-G and not the B16A, don't you think?

This is what I said not that.

SiRII
05-12-2003, 01:15 AM
i was quoting the article

civichatchb18b1
05-12-2003, 02:23 AM
the estra money you are gonna spend on the b16 to get that 20 more horses is the same you will spend on the b18 and there are more possiblillities for greater horsepower gains with a b18 much better i think so go with a b18 and you will be very happy or if you want to get crazy get and ls block with has the greatest torque and displacement of any b series block and throw your b16 head on it which is a "stronger head" so says sir11 and have an lsvtec which will give you great 1/4 mile times and awesome throttle response on the streets thats my opinion and worth every cent and if anyone disagrees thats awesome i love these kinds of debates personally i would go with a gsr or type r head port and poloshed and get some awesome ets and trap speeds

B16EJ1
05-12-2003, 02:27 AM
He said that the B18 head was "stronger" not the B16. :lol2:

PWMAN
05-12-2003, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by civichatchb18b1
the estra money you are gonna spend on the b16 to get that 20 more horses is the same you will spend on the b18 and there are more possiblillities for greater horsepower gains with a b18 much better i think so go with a b18 and you will be very happy or if you want to get crazy get and ls block with has the greatest torque and displacement of any b series block and throw your b16 head on it which is a "stronger head" so says sir11 and have an lsvtec which will give you great 1/4 mile times and awesome throttle response on the streets thats my opinion and worth every cent and if anyone disagrees thats awesome i love these kinds of debates personally i would go with a gsr or type r head port and poloshed and get some awesome ets and trap speeds

Apparently you have more money than you know what to do with!
Sorry, I'm not trying to get you pissed at me but all the stuff you are saying costs mega bucks. I was offering a cost-effective solution to horsepower per dollar. You can get the B16 that has 160HP for 1200 dollars, the B18C1 costs 3000 dollars for 180 HP. Torque is not an issue, the car doesn't weigh anything. Plus the other reason I said was that he needs a cable trans, and the SIR1 accomodates that, the B18C doesn't. He would have to buy a cable trans, or do a pain in the ass hydraulic conversion that justs adds to the costs.

crxlvr
05-12-2003, 11:51 AM
the more logical swap for you to be doing is the b16a, for the money you save not only in the cost of the motor, but the savings from not converting to cable, and the wiring changes to accomodate obd are not worth the hassle, swap the b16, and have your car ready in a weekend, not to wait for months to get all the stuff you need for the b18.

PWMAN
05-12-2003, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by crxlvr
the more logical swap for you to be doing is the b16a, for the money you save not only in the cost of the motor, but the savings from not converting to cable, and the wiring changes to accomodate obd are not worth the hassle, swap the b16, and have your car ready in a weekend, not to wait for months to get all the stuff you need for the b18.

Thanks for backing what I've been saying up.

edman24
05-12-2003, 08:18 PM
yes PWMAN but as i was trying to say that the b18c is worth the extra money because to get the b16 motor to b18 numbers youd make up the difference in mods. why not start with a better base and work from there? not to mention the fact that the b18 has greater tuning possibilities and responds better to mods.

i like the ls/vtec idea. and i can speak from experience, the ls/vtec is an awesome setup if done right. and dont worry about the damn piston squirters! if youre stupid enough to overrev the ls block for whatever reason, then you shouldnt be driving. it gets to 8300 just fine and any higher then that is just stupid. i have yet to actually get my car that high. i smoked my friends 99 Si shifting at about 7000-7200. and i mean SMOKED! this thing pulls like a raped ape!!:jump:

PWMAN
05-12-2003, 08:51 PM
You don't think you can get more than 20 HP out of the B16 with 1800 extra dollars? I think you can get atleast 40 for that, not to mention a complimentary nitrous kit adding another 60.

Oh and I forgot about the hydro conversion, or the price of a cable tranny. Add that to the 1800, so just say 2000 dollars. You can far surpass the B18C1 with 2000 extra dollars on the B16A1.

edman24
05-13-2003, 03:54 PM
first of all do not bring nitrous into this equation. it is cheap hp and can only be used for a certtain amount of time therefore it should not be added into the overall hp of the engine. and with 1800 you may get the extra hp you need out of a b16 to match a b18 but not the torque(and dont tell me it doesnt matter because its a light car, it matters in every car) and then that means youve exhausted all the bolt on and other easy mods so youve topped out in hp unless you use forced induction. my point is, get the b18 stock(which will equal a b16 with mods) THEN build from there. is what im saying not getting through or do you understand now?

crxlvr
05-13-2003, 04:23 PM
yea but ed, with the extra amount of money you have a simple cam swap in the b16 will give you the torque and hp numbers from the b18, with the extra 1300 you have left over after that, you can still add CAI, full exhaust and a chipped ecu.

PWMAN
05-13-2003, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by crxlvr
yea but ed, with the extra amount of money you have a simple cam swap in the b16 will give you the torque and hp numbers from the b18, with the extra 1300 you have left over after that, you can still add CAI, full exhaust and a chipped ecu.

You see Edman24, everyone else is aware of the money factor but you. Not everyone has that extra 3 grand lying around you know. And thats MY POINT. I am well aware of the point you are making.

edman24
05-13-2003, 11:09 PM
i never said evryone has 3 grand lying around. how do you think i bought my car? i worked for the money and i saved it up. my point is, wait a few more months, save a few more bucks and start with a better base. how hard is that to understand? and dont tell me a cam can make up for the loss in displacement. that is totally untrue. the b18 with that same cam would destroy a b16.

smc
05-19-2003, 08:11 PM
I agree with edman, if you have the money or want to save up then go with the GSR. Do not forget, "there is no replacment for displacement". Its no doubt the B16a would be a cheaper and easier alternative. You can easily swap out cams and crank and destroy the b16a. I have a 95 civic and have decided to get the GSR with a LSD tranny (Y80). With all due respect, if money is an option then the b16a would be a better alternative, but personally I would rather 1.8 liters to start with, than 1.6.

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