92 Buick GS stalls with low fuel light comes on


kenmolloy
06-22-2010, 10:08 PM
92 buick regal GS 3800 203,000 km.
stalls intermittantly..... most times will start right up, sometimes i have to wait a couple minutes before it will start. what i noticed is that the low feul light comes on even if tank is full befor it stalls out. has never stalled when low feul light is off.
what has been done.....
fuel tank was leaking so i replace with new tank & fuel pump....
fuel filter has been replaced.
crankshaft & camshft sensors have been replaced.... this has made it a bit better but still stalls just not as often.... speed does not seem to matter it will stall on highway doing 100 km/hr +, also will stall driving in town 50 km/hr and even at idle. with low fuel light on it does idle lower than when the light if off and idles a little rough with low fuel light on

Scan codes recieved.... 41 Cam sensor (recieved this before i replaced cam sensor and am still getting it after it was replaced....) had coded cleared scanner used was snap-on...

Service engine soon light on
ABS light on
seatbelt light on (does go out some times)

richtazz
06-23-2010, 12:39 PM
Welcome to AF.
When you replaced the cam sensor, did they inspect/replace the magnet in the cam gear that the cam sensor gets it's signal from?

kenmolloy
06-23-2010, 12:58 PM
thanks for your reply :)
No i did not, i could not see into hole, car has been running good today only stalled once this AM, and fuel light has been going off after 5 min (approx) from starting. if magnet was missing/damaged would the car not run good ever?

any advise on how to get to check magnet without taking front end apart?

kenmolloy
06-24-2010, 08:27 PM
well, got in to checking the magnet behind the cam sensor today. and there is a magnet there took it out and cleaned it up and replaceced it and still no difference. on thing though it stalled today when the low fuel light was off. also noticed that the speedodometer pegs to the right when it stalls.... never noticed this before, the tach does move a bit when its starting to die but does not move much. the magnet on the cam is very small not sure how big it is supposed to be but the magnet is only abouot 1/3 size of the slot it is sitting in. called jobbers today to see if i could get a new magnet but they do not list one, wondering if I need to buy the cam to get a new one? hope not. magnet seems to be ok, it was very dirty, cleaned it up but car is still stalling....???? anyone have any ideas????

richtazz
06-25-2010, 08:29 AM
the magnet is very small, and has a little plastic retainer "cage" that holds it in the cam gear. The magnet part number is AC-Delco 25530386. It runs about $16 at a Delco retailer, or about $22 at the dealer. It doesn't sound like this is your issue though with the other electrical gremlins you're having. I would inspect the ECM for water intrusion damage since it's mounted under the hood and exposed to the elements. It's under a cover in the passenger side fenderwell between the wheel well and passenger side headlamp.

kenmolloy
06-25-2010, 11:07 AM
:) Thanks rich, i apprieciate all the time your spending on this to help me.

this is good to know, when i first saw magnet it was so full of crud in the cage the magnet looked like it was the same size as the cage, then when i pulled out it seemed that the magnet was starting to disintergrate down to the size of a Tic Tac..:runaround:

Was also talking to an old friend from Vancouver (He runs his own auto shop there) he told me i should replace the pig tails on both sensors, he was saying that this is a common problem with these buicks, so he just replaces the pig tails whenever he replaces the sensors, he admits that it is not always neccessary but it reduces clients returning to his shop.

So when i was checking out the magnet I had a good (best i could) look at wiring and when i felt for the harness the loom was disintergrating in my hands, and i found a few wire repairs to both harnesses.
I tried to source out new pig tails and only GM has them and they want $150 bucks for the pair.

So my plan this weekend is to take off power steering pump, alternator, & water pump pulley, and check out the wiring and pig tails before throwing $150 on a maybe, also good time to replace wiring loom as well.

Also i will take a good look at the ECM like your suggesting, any advise at what i should be looking for.... i had a quick look at the ECM when i replaced the Crank Sensor and did not see any obvious damage there.... should i pull it right out? any test i can perform with a multi meter? I have a decient one (Fluke).

Thanks in advance
-Ken

kenmolloy
06-27-2010, 01:23 PM
Removed the ECM and it looks fine, it is encased in Plastic, no signs of any water damage, removed wiring and pins look new.

removed the wiring harness for the cam and crank sensors to the ICM, the wiring repairs i saw early were factory maded for where the wires from can and crank join, check for continuity of all the wires and could not find any opens in the wire (.01 Ohms resistance in all wires) re-loomed the harness, put it all back together and the SES light came back on as soon as i put it in gear :crying:

Was working at a friends bout 20 mi away so decieded to head home, this time it kept stalling really bad, and would not restart for several minutes between, i noticed that the fuel pump was not turning on after it stalled, but as soon as it came on the car would start and drive about 2-3 min, stopped by another friend on way home (he has a scanner) scanned and..... code 41 Again:runaround:, told him i was sure it was fuel now and not electrical, cause now when it dies it dies like it running out of fuel, not like before it would just die no sputter just like i turned the key off. so i borrowed his fuel gauge and.... when i turned on it would pressurize to 40 psi but very slowly (maybe this has something to do with the low fuel light being on), started car and pressure would drop to 20, then rise to 40 and then back again, when it died the pressure dropped alll the way to "0"....:uhoh:

Sooo... I removed the fuel relay and jummpered it... bang right up to 40 psi and held it there.... drove to gas station and put $20 in (wanted to keep tank above 1/2 with the relay jumpered (btw low feul light is staying on), went for a nice long drive both city and highway and no more stalling,but now car idles low (500-600 rpm) before when car was running good it would idle at 900-1000 rpm. and it sounds rough at idle and sometimes stumbles a bit at take off.

not sure where to go from here I am thinking ICM? priced one out and....:2cents: $450 :rolleyes:, hoping they though i was asking for a ECM.., someone suggested it may be the TPS.... anyone have any ideas/tests i can do to isolate further....

On the brighter side now i can at least drive more than 5k at a time...lol

kenmolloy
06-30-2010, 10:47 AM
well been 3 days of driving with the fuel pump relay jumpered and the car has not stalled, still idleing at 500-600 (does not stay constant) not sure what the idle is supposed to be at?

other than that car is running great since i cleaned up enging grounds and reloomed the crank/cam/ICM harness.

one point i forgot to mention in previous reply was that the wires were exposed at the ICM pigtail, and i repaired them by taping each one and then holding with slight pressure i filled the spaces between all wires at the ICM pigtail with high resistance RTV, i feel this has improved my problem as before when it stalled sometimes it felt like electrical and sometimes it felt like gas. Now when it stalled (before jumpering relay) it always felt like lack of gas, and would never start right back up

low fuel light keeps coming on but does go off more often than before.
seat belt light workes properly.
SES light staying on.
anti-lock light is still staying on, I am pretty sure ABS is working as i have done several panic stops (from 60 MPH) and cannot get brakes to lock up, and vehicle stops quickly.

Not sure where to go from here and was hoping someone would have some suggestions for me to try as i try to isolate the problem so i can fix car properly...... (jumpering relay before starting and removing when i park is annoying, although a great anti-theft exercise...lol).

Thanks in advance
-Ken

kenmolloy
07-15-2010, 04:51 PM
well it looks like nobody has any further sugestions fo me to try, thx anyway guys

3100
07-18-2010, 02:20 PM
Hi, loss of cam signal will not stall your engine, you have other problems. Your engine is sfi sequential fuel injection and when it looses signal it will go into MFI mode. It will still run and will be able to restart with increased fuel consumption. Give me all your codes (please just give me numbers don't interpret codes).

kenmolloy
07-18-2010, 07:49 PM
Hi 3100
only code i get is 41....(code i got before doing anything and still same code i am get today)

to recap for you i have replaced gas tank (was leaking bad) and replaced fuel pump assembly while i had tank out.

cam sensor, and crank sensor have been replaced.

removed the wiring harness for cam crank and ICM) wires tested and no opens found... did repair harnes at the ICM pigtail, plastic coating was breaking off due to heat. heald pig tail in vise applied slight tension to wires so the kept separated and filled in with high heat resistant RTV to keep wires from shorting against easch other, allowed RTV to dry then reloomed and put back in.

removed PCM and inspected case and plugs for any signs of water damage or corression. there was no signs of any damage to case, plugs, or pins.

at this point car still stalled, and codes were cleared via a scanner and car through a code 41 again.

Jumpered the fuel relay and now car has not stalled since(June 27), does have a slight miss at idle (this is itermediate, and i believe it is due to small crack in vacuum line at the electronic EGR, will be getting some vacuum lines this payday and will start inspecting all lines and replacing as nessary)

Any ideas and suggestions will be greatly apprieciated.
Thanks in advance
-Ken

3100
07-19-2010, 04:26 PM
Hey, Kenmolloy I need to know when you turn the key into run position do all the lights for the gauges come ON? Does the light for oil pressure come on? Does the fuel low level come on and remain on for 3 seconds?

kenmolloy
07-19-2010, 05:56 PM
3100:
low fuel indicator does not come on
Oil Pressure does not come on

Coolant lvl comes on for 1/2 sec then goes out
Check gauges light comes on
SES comes on
Anti-Break comes on

-Ken

3100
07-20-2010, 07:46 AM
please try this: Put the f/p relay back in and disconnect oil pressure switch. Test drive the car and tell me what happens.


oil pressure switch you will find above crankshaft balancer and it has 4 wires (black, tan, gray and maybe orange (not sure about the color of the 4th wire))

kenmolloy
07-20-2010, 09:52 PM
hi 3100,
not sure what colors the wires were but there was only one sensor where you're describing other than the cam shaft higher up and towards waterpump.

pulled plug and replaced f/p relay, and when i put key into run position. oil pressure gauge went all the way to the top and car would not start.
pulled f/p relay and jumpered and car still not start.

replaced plug and oil gauge went back to normal.
but now when i turn car off the volt meter goes down as far as it can. with key in run position the volt meter goes to zero. all gauges are workin when car running.

car stalled a few times on me today after i performed this test, but started right back up.

kenmolloy
07-21-2010, 09:27 AM
forgot to add that the dash lights are the same as befor.
since you asked me to perform the dash light test i have been checking them every time i start car. sometimes the low fuel light comes on in the run position but it stays on, even after car starts. this was befor the oil pressure sensor test was done.

kenmolloy
07-21-2010, 05:50 PM
been thinking of y the car started stalling again after the oil pressure sensor test i did yesteday, andi wonder if i may have caused the problem when i changed the oil and filter yesterday.

there was a sensor to the left(viewing from behind passenger wheel) of the oil filter, that i may have disturbed, do you know what this sensor is?

the behaviour of the stalling is nothing like before, car cuts in and out and tranny shifts down, have to turn key off before it will restart

-Ken

3100
07-21-2010, 05:59 PM
is it electronic cluster or gauge cluster?
- when low fuel light comes on does gauge go to empty as well?
- usually when relay goes bad, oil pressure switch takes over as a backup over 4psi. So if engine relay is bad, when engine is cranked oil pressure will start to increase and switch will close to supply power to pump.

what exactly terminals at relay did you jump, there are terminals 1-5?

- from terminal 1 of the relay leads dr. green/white wire to D1 terminal of your ECM check that the connector is nice and tight or while engine is running wiggle ecm connector with D1 pin to see if engine will stall. Also put back fuel pump relay and while engine is running wiggle the relay to see if engine will stall. (we are now checking for intermittent loose connection).

-if you can backup your car onto ramps, and with engine running wiggle fuel pump connector.



try this wiggle tests and tell me what happens. Also when engine is running slowly turn key from run to off, I wonder if engine stalls before key reaches off position? Also when you turn off the ignition key does the low fuel light come on?

3100
07-21-2010, 07:26 PM
please do the tests from my previous post, and also check this ground connection it is very important.

- if all this tests fail I suggest that you renew wiring related to fp relay.
- I can draw a diagram and write instructions how to do it, It should not be expensive at all. You will need new fuel pump relay, 5-6 female connectors that would fit on relay's male connectors, and some regular wires from AZ or Walmart (cheaper). Let me know if you are interested.

It will require some cutting and splicing of the existing wires. If that does not work you can always reconnect the old wiring and remove this. Let me know if you are interested. It should be simple and fun project.


- also wanted to ask you about jumping the relay that you did, when you shut off engine what happens to pump ? Does it stop or continues to run?

kenmolloy
07-21-2010, 09:12 PM
definately not a problem, i will do. will not be able to perform wiring tests you outlined till thursday evening- fri AM.

i have already cleaned this ground when i reloomed the wiring harness. i removed the ICM/coils & alternator, and power steering pumpe so i could remove the complete wiring harness.

please send wiring diagram/instruction. i have no problems soldering and working with wires

i was just wondering what that sensor was that i kinda smacked cause the behaviour of the stalling has really changed since befor i jumpered the f/p relay.

i jumpered the f/p relay from the constant power to pin 30 (this info i got from the relay itself0. i origionally change the relay before i came to this form so i have 2. pump runs when car turned off. i have it wired to a toggle switch mounted to the underneath of dash. i turn car off with switch first the remve key (do this to make sure i do not forget to turn pump off)

kenmolloy
07-21-2010, 11:31 PM
is it electronic cluster or gauge cluster?
Gauge... see pics below

- when low fuel light comes on does gauge go to empty as well?
No

- usually when relay goes bad, oil pressure switch takes over as a backup over 4psi. So if engine relay is bad, when engine is cranked oil pressure will start to increase and switch will close to supply power to pump.
Have 2 relays. I redid the oil pressure test today and with oil sensor unpluged and f/p relay in the car stalled often like before... did with both relays

what exactly terminals at relay did you jump, there are terminals 1-5?
see pic: 40017

- from terminal 1 of the relay leads dr. green/white wire to D1 terminal of your ECM check that the connector is nice and tight or while engine is running wiggle ecm connector with D1 pin to see if engine will stall.
tried this several times at ECM and car stalled with f/p relay in a couple times. even pulled ECM out to make sure i was wiggigling right connector. car did not always stall

Also put back fuel pump relay and while engine is running wiggle the relay to see if engine will stall. (we are now checking for intermittent loose connection).
car did not stall while wiggleing f/p tried with both relay

-if you can backup your car onto ramps, and with engine running wiggle fuel pump connector.
could not do that tonigh do not have ramps but did try that back when i changed fuel tank, and it did not stall


Also when engine is running slowly turn key from run to off, I wonder if engine stalls before key reaches off position?
car turns off once key reaches acc. position and not before. wiggled key and car did not stall

Also when you turn off the ignition key does the low fuel light come on?
No

dash pic's
Key on 40020 40021

oil pressure with sensor unpluged
40019

3100
07-22-2010, 02:17 AM
so engine stalled when you wiggled ECM connector? We could be close, try this:

-cut about 3 inches from ECM connector the dark green/white (pin#d1), (anyway you will cut this wire for my rewiring project)
-then remove insulation from both sides of the wires.
-temporarily twist them together to make connection.
-start engine, fuel pump relay must be connected for this test,
-while engine is idling separate the twisted connection that you just made. Did engine stall?
-with d1 connection disconnected, try to restart the engine to test if fuel pressure switch will backup relay in this case, it should take little longer to restart.
With this test did we duplicate the scenario when your engine stalls but takes little longer to restart when f/p relay is connected and when oil pressure switch takes over?

-also thank you for professional answering my questions

here are instructions for the wiring, but please do the test above first


Use paper tape (to mark numbers 1,2,3 and 5) at the end of each female connector that you will make for your relay connections. When you read my instructions below, don’t let the numbers confuse you.
VERY IMPORTANT: as soon as you make female connector for the relay put some el tape over the connector until everything is done to avoid accidental shorting during Fluke test and reconnecting of battery cable.


- Disconnect negative battery cable
- cut dk green/white wire at the ECM pin D1 2” away from the ECM connector
- cut how much jumper wire you will need from the 2” dr. green wire that you just cut at the ECM to reach your external relay that you can install somewhere near the fuse box under the hood. Connect one end of the jumper wire with the 2” dr. green/white wire at ECM and at the other end crimp female connector 1 (size that will work with the male terminal of your external relay)
- find a good ground in the area of your relay connect one end of the jumper wire to the good ground and at the other end crimp female connector 2 for the relay
-
- go to oil pressure switch that I told you once to disconnect. You will see 4 wires, look at the connector. Is terminal D at the connector orange wire? And is terminal C at the same connector gray wire?
- If yes, reconnect negative battery cable.
- With your fluke, test for battery voltage at orange wire of the mentioned connector (it should be HOT all the time)
- If orange wire (D) terminal at oil pressure switch is there and you see 12V at all times that is good sign
- Disconnect negative battery cable
- cut how much wire you need to splice into orange wire at oil ps. switch to reach your external relay that we are going to use.
- After you splice into the orange wire about 2” away from the oil pressure switch connector, crimp at the other end of the wire female connector 5
- Go to the fuel pump
- Cut the gray wire about 2” away from the fuel pump connector (gray wire should be terminal F, check that before you cut)
- Cut the black wire about 2” away from the fuel pump connector (black wire should be terminal A, check that also before cutting)
- Extend this 2” black wire with a new jumper wire that can reach any good ground in that area and connect it to whatever good ground (bolt etc you find)
- Cut how much wire you need from the grey wire at fuel pump to reach your external relay
- Connect that wire that you just cut with the 2” gray wire at fuel pump connector, at the other end of the wire mark number 3 (do not crimp female connector yet)
- Go back to oil pressure switch cut about 2” the gray wire at terminal C
- Cut how much wire you will need to connect the 2” grey wire (terminal C) of the oil pressure switch to reach your external relay.
- Connect the jumper wire that you just cut to the 2” gray wire of the terminal C of the oil pressure switch, and at the other end of the jumper wire mark number 3(do not crimp female connector yet)
- Now connect both ends of wires that you marked with paper tape as number 3 and make one female connection for both of them (so both wires are joining into one and using one female connector)


When everything is done, position the fuel pump relay about 1” away from the fuse box like you are about to plug it in, look where each of the male terminals of the relay connects to, next to each original female terminals of the really are numbers 1-5
Connect your crimped female connections with numbers to male terminals of the relay in the same order.


Note: terminal number 4 is unused (fuel pump priming connector)
This setup will use same existing 20A fuse

If necessary at the end we can add new wiring for this 20A fuse

3100
07-22-2010, 07:58 AM
been thinking of y the car started stalling again after the oil pressure sensor test i did yesteday, andi wonder if i may have caused the problem when i changed the oil and filter yesterday.

there was a sensor to the left(viewing from behind passenger wheel) of the oil filter, that i may have disturbed, do you know what this sensor is?

the behaviour of the stalling is nothing like before, car cuts in and out and tranny shifts down, have to turn key off before it will restart

-Ken



The sensor that you disturbed could be vehicle speed sensor. Did it have yellow and purple wires? Or it could be the detonation sensor or knock sensor that has only one wire (dr. blue). It would be a good idea to use contact cleaner spray and clean both sides of contacts for vehicle speed sensor. This sensor among other things sends some inputs for shifting, evap canister, and idle via pcm.

3100
07-22-2010, 09:47 AM
here is the diagram,

you can buy maybe 30 feet of just red wire if, that is why I used red in the diagram so you can distinguish easier which wires are jumper wires and which are original. Notice I used original wire colors for each of the components.

this long jumper wire form fuel pump you can tie and run next to fuel lines. For now don't wast to much time on hiding wires. Lets just test it for now, then if it works you can open the fuse box where the fp relay plugs in and run those female terminals form the bottom like nothing happened.

kenmolloy
07-22-2010, 10:11 AM
thanks 3100,
I'll do this wiring job this week-end and let you know how it turns out.

- as for sensor i smacked it was a single wire dark blue.
- bout 6" to the left of that is the VSS, looks like a temp sensor cause it looks like a frost plug that it is connected to (2 wires, not sure of color). i will also clean as you have suggested as well.

3100
07-22-2010, 10:18 AM
thanks 3100,
I'll do this wiring job this week-end and let you know how it turns out.

- as for sensor i smacked it was a single wire dark blue.
- bout 6" to the left of that is the VSS, looks like a temp sensor cause it looks like a frost plug that it is connected to (2 wires, not sure of color). i will also clean as you have suggested as well.



single wire dark blue is knock sensor as I mentioned in my previous posts.

good luck, and as you see by looking at the diagram it is not that hard, just my instructions step by step sounded little too much. If there is something that is not clear to you, please do not hesitate to ask. Have a nice day.

kenmolloy
07-22-2010, 10:21 AM
quick question

i can do the test tonight after work with dr green wire at PCM,
if it does not work shold i still do the wiring job.

bout 7-8 PM your time

3100
07-22-2010, 10:59 AM
I think that engine will stall and it should. I would recomend this wiring it is not that hard to do but at least you will know that all the wires are new and will eliminate possible intermittent opens somewhere in the wiring. I am 90% sure that this will solve your problem if you follow my instruction step by step. Also wiggle the 20A fuse with fuel pump relay connected.

3100
07-22-2010, 03:35 PM
good news I have one shorter solution you can do it even after work I will be online to hear about the results.


see the picture that you posted with the relay connectors jumped. Leave male terminals plugged in where they are now, but cut the wires about 2 inches from the fuse box. At the other end install female terminals conect one of the terminals to terminla 87 of the relay and the other terminal to terminal 30 of the relay. Now use multemeter or test light and find the ground from the remaining 3 female connectors where the original relay used to be plugged in. It should be terminal marked as #2 but test it first. when you find the ground make another 2 inch wire with male terminal at one end and female connector at the other end plug it in the terminal 2 if it is ground, then plug the other end to terminal 86 of the relay, now find injector fuse 20A in the same fuse box. Make two jumper wires like you made for the relay with one male and one female terminal on each. Remove the 20A injector fuse, plug in both male connectors of the jumper wires that you just made into female connector of the 20A fuse, now plug both female connectors into the male terminals of the 20A fuse, splice one of the jumper wires for the fuse in the middle with a wire that can reach the relay at the other end install female connector and that connector connect to terminal 85 of the relay. tape up everything and now you can cover all that mess with the fuse box cover. When you turn the key pump will work when you turn the key off pump will turn off. :)) please do this today.

kenmolloy
07-22-2010, 05:45 PM
just got home and read last post, out of the 2 solutions # 1 sounds better to me. i have arranged to use my friends shop tonight and tommorow.

#2 sounds faster and easier, but i think having the system work through relay is better. what u think?

kenmolloy
07-22-2010, 08:53 PM
ok.... started car with f/p relay in.
removed green wire from PCM D1 and car stalled. tried to restart and car will not start, even when oil pressure rises on gauge.... cranked for 30 sec...

3100
07-22-2010, 11:19 PM
ok, that is why your engine is stalling, you pin D1 with dark green and white wire is intermittently loosing contact, or there is intermittent open in the same wire somewhere. Remember when you were wiggling pcm connectors. I would try number 2 solution first see how you like it, it shouldn't take longer than 15min.

3100
07-22-2010, 11:20 PM
here is the diagram for no2


so injector fuse 20A is powered only in run start and on position, so you got the idea.

kenmolloy
07-23-2010, 01:11 AM
Ok thx... I will do this first thing this AM and post results

3100
07-23-2010, 02:13 AM
Ok thx... I will do this first thing this AM and post results


If you like solution #2 then you can do all this wiring from under the fuse box, so that everything looks nice and neat (original) and even have relay connected to its original place (but with some rewiring from under the black plastic of the fuse box.

kenmolloy
07-23-2010, 01:08 PM
Ok solution #2 done. Car working well, pump turns off with key in off position, and on in start/run position.
SES lightcame on right away but i think SES codes will still be thrown with this solution.

will drive car for a bit and post back later

3100
07-23-2010, 01:10 PM
Ok solution #2 done. Car working well, pump turns off with key in off position, and on in start/run position.
SES lightcame on right away but i think SES codes will still be thrown with this solution.

will drive car for a bit and post back later


yes test drive it and let me know
connect terminals a and b of data link connector read blinks tell me the code - enjoy

3100
07-23-2010, 01:32 PM
You will have to install one more relay to fake ECM I will tell you how.

just give me second to see the diagram again.


OK try this:
-find another relay
-connect terminal 1 from the fuse box to terminal 85 of the new relay,
-then make another jumper wire that will splice into the already installed wire that is plugged into terminal 2, then the other end connect to terminal 86 of the new relay.

-or you can measure resistance across terminal 85 and 86 of the new relay, and find the same resistor and install it instead. If that does not work I will find solution. What is happening now is pcm sees that it is unable to control your fuel pump anymore, and is very mad now.


-in the mean time I will see what we can do about your code 41.

3100
07-23-2010, 02:13 PM
solution #2 upgrade (THIS SHOULD TAKE CARE OF SES LIGHT)

kenmolloy
07-23-2010, 03:45 PM
thanks that look easy.

OK went for a good long test drive, and car working well so far.

blink codes
1 flash then 2 flashes ( repeats 3 times)
3 flashes then 9 flashes (repeats 3 times)
4 flashes then 1 flash ( repeats 3 times)
then starts over

3100
07-23-2010, 03:47 PM
disconnect negative battery, connect second relay tell me what happens.


code 39 has nothing to do with our connections it is with TCC, did you find 20A injector fuse exactly for the above connections?

anyway connect this second relay and erase codes by removing neg. bat.

also code 39 will not illuminate service engine soon light.

check 10A indicators fuse #5 in the fuse block,
check that lights come on for the brake lights with brake pedal depressed

so you must have tested your car on a highway because code 39 sets only in the 4th gear :)

- don't worry about this codes we will rewire everything and all of them should be gone in the next couple days depends how much time you have to work on.

kenmolloy
07-23-2010, 04:18 PM
SES light came back on as soon as i put in gear

kenmolloy
07-23-2010, 04:21 PM
i tested on highway & city driving

3100
07-23-2010, 04:22 PM
SES light came back on as soon as i put in gear

did you install the second relay?

did you maybe forget to plug in some connectors near the oil filter when you were cleaning them?

was that ses light there before, maybe from code 41, code 39 will not illuminate check engine light.

check fuse 10A that I mentioned in my previous message, also check that brake lights come on when brake is pressed,
check p6 and b9 terminals at ecm for loose contact.

-look for all connectors on the transmissions where terminal A of the connector is purple wire and terminal D tan black tell me when you find it

- did you have that ses light on before? I did not say that this relays will turn off light for code 41 which is for cam sensor, I was expecting code to be something related to fp relay or pump that is why I said lets install second relay.

kenmolloy
07-23-2010, 04:42 PM
disconnect negative battery, connect second relay tell me what happens.


check 10A indicators fuse #5 in the fuse block,
fuse OK

check that lights come on for the brake lights with brake pedal depressed
OK

second relay installed?
Yes

did you maybe forget to plug in some connectors near the oil filter when you were cleaning them?
pretty sure i didn't, i doouble checked every thing befor putting back together

washt was o that ses light there before, maybe from code 41, code 39 will not illuminate check engine light.
light was on but i disconnect battery while i installed other relay, was unhooked for at least 5 min

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