front end noise


jakegday
06-06-2010, 04:47 PM
hello all. was wondering if anyone had any ideas on this one.... whenever im driving, and i go over bumps in the road, or railroad tracks, ill hear a metal on metal noise from my front passenger side. it sounds like thick metal on metal too. its not a squeak or a chirp, it is like metal banging together. it only does it while going over bumps.
the front struts were replaced last year with a monroe quick struts, and i just tried replacing the front (vertical) control arm bushing in an attempt to fix this.

any ideas would be appreciated

grandprixgtx00
06-06-2010, 05:29 PM
did you check the tie rods? not sure why it would cause a metal on metal noise, but its worth a check

tblake
06-06-2010, 05:49 PM
Motor/Trans mounts look OK?

jakegday
06-27-2010, 11:34 AM
not sure where to look for the motor/trans mount.. the noise is definitely coming from the front passenger side...
with that tire raised off the ground, i tried grabbing it at the 3-9, and 6-12 o clock positions and its completely solid.... when i had my LCA off i played with the ball joint for a few seconds and it felt solid, and just today i detached the tie rod end and played with it, it too felt good. could one of those feel solid to my bare hands but still be bad enough to be causing a metal on metal noise?? could the rear LCA (horizontal) bushing cause this?

Ryan Hermann
06-27-2010, 01:14 PM
It could be a rusted off sway bar link pin. The one on my 1994 s10 is rusted off and it makes noise when I hit bumps.

GPFred
07-01-2010, 01:49 PM
I was going to suggest checking the sway bar ends where they connect to the links. Mine made a similar noise and I found both ends of the sway bar had rusted and snapped off. Just a guess. Good luck.

jakegday
07-09-2010, 07:38 AM
could someone tell me specifically where to look for the motor and trans mounts in question....? and how hard would they be to replace??
also, a better description of the sound.... picture you have a 2 15-inch crescent wrenches in a tool box. picture that tool box right on your front passenger side. now every time you hit a bump picture the noise of those 2 big metal wrenches banging together... THAT is the exact sound.....

jakegday
07-17-2010, 06:46 AM
alright guys, the motor mount looks ok, to my untrained eye. (i have no idea what to look for....) both sway bar bushings, and both sway bar end links have since been replaced. and the sway bar looks perfect.

any other suggestions??? 2 big metal wrenches banging together type sound... please......!!

gonesouth
07-17-2010, 10:01 AM
alright guys, the motor mount looks ok, to my untrained eye. (i have no idea what to look for....) both sway bar bushings, and both sway bar end links have since been replaced. and the sway bar looks perfect.

any other suggestions??? 2 big metal wrenches banging together type sound... please......!!

Is the top of the strut tight? Look under the hood at the strut tower. There are 3 nuts/bolts that hold the top of the strut. Makes sure they are all tight. Also, check the strut to knuckle bolts.

If there is a metal to metal noise, look for fresh rust (bright orange) or shiny metal on the suspension components.

jakegday
07-17-2010, 12:48 PM
Is the top of the strut tight? Look under the hood at the strut tower. There are 3 nuts/bolts that hold the top of the strut. Makes sure they are all tight. Also, check the strut to knuckle bolts.

If there is a metal to metal noise, look for fresh rust (bright orange) or shiny metal on the suspension components.

done and done. the struts were replaced with quick struts about a year ago, so EVERYTHING strut related is newer

3100
07-17-2010, 01:47 PM
Did you try to replace lower bushings or is it replaced? Bumps will destroy this fast. So check them again when front end is lifted, both sides of the bushings should be the same length up and down (what usually happens is that the rubber part comes out of the metal ring and is not attached to anything after that.
here is the pic.

mcmalloy
07-17-2010, 01:58 PM
grab the motor and rock it back and forth, there is a engine tourqe strut at the lower right corner, it kinda looks like a dog bone or you might have the shock style

3100
07-17-2010, 02:13 PM
alright guys, the motor mount looks ok, to my untrained eye. (i have no idea what to look for....) both sway bar bushings, and both sway bar end links have since been replaced. and the sway bar looks perfect.

any other suggestions??? 2 big metal wrenches banging together type sound... please......!!


are you sure that you don't have some tools (wrenches) on the plastic cover between your front bumper and and passenger fender? Previous owner or some mechanic might have lost some tools there and did not bother to look for them.

gonesouth
07-17-2010, 05:48 PM
This is really a longshot, but if you had the front struts replaced not long ago, was a wheel alignment done afterwards?

The reason I ask is because sometimes when doing an alignment, the tech might loosen the subframe bolts to shift the subframe. It will move slightly, side to side to adjust some steering angles.

Just for the heck of it, check the subframe to body bolts. There are four of them, at the corners and I believe they are 15mm. If it has been loose for a while, it may have rusted to the caged/trapped nut plate, so don't be afraid to really torque them. Try to loosen them first, then tighten them, one at a time.

If one is loose on one of the corners, it could make the noise you have described.

BNaylor
07-18-2010, 09:09 AM
How long has this noise been present? One major problem I see is the fact you used Monroe Quick Struts which has a Monroe brand upper strut mount/load bearing. It is not uncommon to get suspension noises when using aftermarket strut assemblies especially Monroe or Gabriel brand. KYB less common. Also, you ruined your GT suspension and handling system with these struts. Nothing compares to the OE GM struts and mounts.

BNaylor
07-18-2010, 09:18 AM
The reason I ask is because sometimes when doing an alignment, the tech might loosen the subframe bolts to shift the subframe. It will move slightly, side to side to adjust some steering angles.



:shakehead

If I ever saw or caught an alignment tech messing with my subframe bolts during a wheel alignment other than verifying bolt torque I would shoot him! :twak:

jakegday
07-18-2010, 10:17 AM
Also, you ruined your GT suspension and handling system with these struts. Nothing compares to the OE GM struts and mounts.

then im pretty sure my "gt handling and suspension" was ruined long before i bought the car.... i would go around turns, and if i hit a bump while going around a turn/curve on the highway, my ass end would completely let go of the road and hydroplane... scary as sh*t at 70mph.... the monroe quick struts fixed this.

the noise has been present since about april

both front control arm bushings have been replaced. yes an alignment was done after the struts, and yes, all 4 subframe bolts are TIGHT! every tool ive ever used on this car has been accounted for. if there were tools from a previous owner, i'd like to think i would have heard them within the first year and a half of owning the car.....

i guess the only thing left for me to try is the monroe brand upper strut mount. will this be obvious from looking at it, or could it look fine and still be bad?

3100
07-18-2010, 10:33 AM
check transmission mount

http://www.partstrain.com/store/includes/secure/popup.php?type=more&image=L2ltYWdlcy9wcm9kdWN0X2ltYWdlcy9pbWFnZXMvd2Vz dGFyL3dzZW0yNzEyX3VwZGF0ZWQuanBn&title=V2VzdGFyIE1vdG9yIGFuZCBUcmFuc21pc3Npb24gTW91 bnQ=&text=V0VTVEFSIFRSQU5TTUlTU0lPTiBNT1VOVCwgU09MRCBJT kRJVklEVUFMTFkgLS0gSHlkcmF1bGljOyBBIGhpZ2ggcXVhbGl 0eSwgZGlyZWN0IGZpdCBPRSByZXBsYWNlbWVudCB0cmFuc21pc 3Npb24gbW91bnQ7IEVhc3kgaW5zdGFsbGF0aW9uLg==

3100
07-18-2010, 10:44 AM
but my best shot at this would be engine mount and bracket at the bottom of the engine below the crankshaft balancer, mount is sitting on top of the passenger side sub-frame.


try this: shift into D, press on the brake to the floor and with your other foot accelerate while the hood is open. Accelerate then release, then accelerate and again release while listening for the same noise and unusual engine movement. Don't let the car move.


it would be helpful if you could tape up small camera that can record video somewhere where it is safe while you are doing the test that I mentioned above so you can record mount movement. Also check the bracket that is attached to the engine block for loose bolts.

BNaylor
07-18-2010, 11:35 AM
Did you save any of your old/original front strut assemblies?

Obviously worn out struts will give problems and so will mediocre brand tires. For aftermarket brands the KYB would have been a better choice as new OE.

jakegday
07-18-2010, 03:36 PM
no, i didnt save any of the old struts. ive been thinking it might be the lower motor mount, and that is the problem i fear the most. besides having a shop do it i'd probably have to do something like in this write up
http://www.grandprixforums.net/engine_mount.php
not sure if i feel comfortable with that or not tho.....

3100
07-18-2010, 03:49 PM
no, i didnt save any of the old struts. ive been thinking it might be the lower motor mount, and that is the problem i fear the most. besides having a shop do it i'd probably have to do something like in this write up
http://www.grandprixforums.net/engine_mount.php
not sure if i feel comfortable with that or not tho.....


that was my best shot at this problem I am convinced that thsi is your problem. Did you try the test with left foot on the brake to the floor and with right foot try to accelerate while listening for any knocking sound when engine raises up (on acceleration) and lowers down (when throttle is released)?

jakegday
07-18-2010, 04:27 PM
no, i havent tried that yet

jakegday
07-26-2010, 08:51 PM
im leaning more and more towards strut mounts, since they were mentioned... with what im experiencing, it just makes sense. and the problem started on the passenger side, now its moving over to the drivers side as well (where the other low quality strut mount is)

now to my question, can a strut mount be repalced without removing the 2 lower strut bolts, the 2 in the steering knuckle...?

edit: actually nevermind. i completely forgot about having to compress the spring, which probably wont be do-able in the wheel well..... oh well. ill bring this thread back up after i replace my strut mounts....
thank you for all the input so far!

BNaylor
07-26-2010, 09:39 PM
That would be nice but it looks like you answered your own question. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

3100
07-27-2010, 03:19 AM
this thread was waste of my time.

jakegday
07-27-2010, 01:22 PM
this thread was waste of my time.

not really man.... you gave me information that i did not have before....

jakegday
08-04-2010, 08:21 PM
never in my life have i been this frustrated with a car. i figured i'd just blindly buy some parts (what ive been doing) and eventually fix this problem, and still end up spending less then what i'd spend to take it somewhere and get diagnosed and fixed. and i'd have some new parts in the process..... my plan is failing miserably

i have replaced both strut mounts, and did the motor mount test described above; the problem hasnt changed (its actually getting worse/louder) and im out of ideas.....

tblake
08-05-2010, 01:32 AM
How about the shocks themselves? Open your hood, and push down firmly and let up on the radiator core support. Get the car bouncing. Do you hear the sound at all even faintly?

3100
08-05-2010, 03:06 PM
take it to GM dealer, they have electronic ear tool with alligator clips that can listen to the noise of 5 different suspension parts at the same time. They should be able to narrow it down.

jakegday
08-05-2010, 09:07 PM
How about the shocks themselves? Open your hood, and push down firmly and let up on the radiator core support. Get the car bouncing. Do you hear the sound at all even faintly?

ive tried everything possible to re-create the sound without the vehicle moving and its just not possible. its as quiet as my dead grandma...



take it to GM dealer,

that is exactly what is going to happen next. in several weeks, when i save up the money to do that, i will definitely post the results.

GregGP
09-25-2010, 08:04 PM
My car was making a noise like that; metal banging together. After lots of work, and trial and error, I found that somehow a very large wheel weight had made its way inside of my lower control arm. I had a hell of a time fishing it out of there, but it's perfectly quiet now.

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