Serpentine Belt Noise


TheDeal526
05-02-2010, 01:58 PM
2001 Escort ZX2, 2.0 DOHC 105,550 miles

Ok, so my tensioner broke off the other day. I had it replaced with an aftermarket tensioner I picked up from pepboys. The mechanic that replaced the tensioner said he had to drop the a/c compressior in order to get to the broken half of the tensioner that was still on the car. Now the belt squeaks everytime I turn the a/c on. And the a/c compressor sounds loud. Should I have my a/c compressor looked at now? I'm thinking my mechanic may have damaged it some how. He said he just had it hanging in order to gain clearance. Also the belt squeaks whenever I turn the wheel all the way in any direction. Does anyone have any ideas???



Thanks Everyone

Franco2112
05-02-2010, 02:25 PM
Are the belts new as of today or the same old belts? If old belts they are stretched and you will need new ones.
Franco

juggie#1
05-02-2010, 02:30 PM
2001 Escort ZX2, 2.0 DOHC 105,550 miles

Ok, so my tensioner broke off the other day. I had it replaced with an aftermarket tensioner I picked up from pepboys. The mechanic that replaced the tensioner said he had to drop the a/c compressior in order to get to the broken half of the tensioner that was still on the car. Now the belt squeaks everytime I turn the a/c on. And the a/c compressor sounds loud. Should I have my a/c compressor looked at now? I'm thinking my mechanic may have damaged it some how. He said he just had it hanging in order to gain clearance. Also the belt squeaks whenever I turn the wheel all the way in any direction. Does anyone have any ideas???



Thanks Everyone it sound like the tension is bat leaving the belt loose or u have a bad belt strich or crack.

TheDeal526
05-02-2010, 02:42 PM
Actually I did not replace the belt. But would that make the a/c compressor sound louder?

Franco2112
05-02-2010, 06:06 PM
Yes, that would make the ac compressor make noise. It all has to be tight.
Franco

TheDeal526
05-05-2010, 05:20 PM
I replaced the serpentine belt. But when I turn the wheel while at a stop of moving at very low speeds (while parking for example), I still get noise from the new belt. In my original post I mentioned I replaced the tensioner with an aftermarket one from pepboys. I'm wondering if I should go with an oem tensioner. I can't think of anything else that would cause belt noise.

Any ideas?

Thanks....

Intuit
05-07-2010, 10:13 PM
Sounds like a bad tensioner. I say this because both the Power Steering pump and A/C compressor caused the noises. The only other likely possibility is that something is leaking onto the belt, causing it to loose friction. Don't know about the later 'scorts, but there are a ton of junk/crap after-market parts out there for the mid-nineties 'scorts. Though, why did the original break in the first place ? 240k+ on my 1.9L tensioner. For replacement parts, I've had good luck with CarQuest and O'Reilly's. Baadd luck with Parts+, AutoZone, Napa and PepBoys.

AzTumbleweed
05-08-2010, 08:04 AM
Here's how I would test the tensioner: You probably know there is a square hole in the tensioner where you put a ratchet or breaker bar to release tension when installing a belt. Put a ratchet in there but apply tension. Have someone turn the wheel. If the sound goes away then I'd say your tensioner is too weak. If you still have a squeel then I'd say it's an idler pulley and the added strain of the A/C or power steering is causing this.:2cents:

TheDeal526
05-08-2010, 11:42 AM
I'm not sure what caused the original tensioner to break. But I'm going to replace the aftermarket tensioner and belt with oem parts from ford. The aftermarket tensioner looks completely different than the one that came off, even the pulley is a different size. http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/parts/partsProduct.jsp?displayName=Belt+Tensioner&itemId=657-0&navValue=15300657&parentId=53-0&productId=539998&fromString=&itemIdentifier=539998_0_1562_&filterByKeyWord=&categoryNValue=&isSearchByPartNumber=&categoryDisplayName=ExternalEngine&store=2936&skuDescription=Duralast/BeltTensioner&fromWhere=&searchText=&_requestid=594603

AzTumbleweed
05-08-2010, 02:41 PM
It won't be cheap but at least there won't be a question about quality and/or fit. :tongue:

zzyzzx2
05-10-2010, 02:44 PM
It sounds like your mechanic used a cheap aftermarket part that doesn't fit right. I'd replace the tensioner witha good one (you can buy a Gates one at NAPA) and replace the belt too. NAPA also sells a crappy Dorman belt tensioner that I woudn't touch (I hate Dorman products).

Davescort97
05-10-2010, 11:35 PM
The drive belt noise can occur if the pulleys are misaligned, one or more accessories are binding up and as mentioned before the tensioner, and the accessory belt, serpentine, could be stretched out so much that the tensioner is at the limit of it's travel. I think if you investigate why the tensioner pulley broke in the first place you'll have some insight about why you are having all this noise. On my 94 it appeared that my tensioner wasn't doing it's job when in fact the belt itself was too long and the tensioner was at the limit of it's travel.

Intuit
05-11-2010, 09:12 AM
Yeah had someone pulled a CE code using one ages ago. 'Fuel at adaptive limits' or something to that effect. Only saw it once and haven't seen it again since I removed and had the cracked head (2nd, 3rd exhaust valve to exhaust manifold + lower driverside head bolt well) helicoiled.

Loads of information via Google Images with that EEC-IV google...
http://www.rs20004x4.co.uk/enginemanagement2.htm
http://www.auto-diagnostics.info/ford_eec_iv

Funny how Google Images, especially in technical matters, can often be more informative than the traditional Google.

EDIT: (mine is a '94) (oh, and keep in mind that some of the info is for the UK models which are different)

zzyzzx2
05-11-2010, 02:38 PM
On my 94 it appeared that my tensioner wasn't doing it's job when in fact the belt itself was too long and the tensioner was at the limit of it's travel.

More info on this belt please (brand name, and/or model) or mileage if high mileage.

Davescort97
05-14-2010, 11:51 PM
Don't remember details, but the last 3 numbers of the belt number list it's length in centimeters. If you suspect the belt is too long replace it with a shorter one.

TheDeal526
05-21-2010, 07:50 AM
The numbers on the belt are 5060855DR and 6PK2170. That's on the box that the belt came in. I can't really see the numbers on the belt itself. But I notice the tensioner makes a weird noise as it moves.

ricebike
05-21-2010, 12:10 PM
6pk2170 is a BANDO belt number

6 means it has that many RIBS on the belt(width)

2170 is the length in CM

so ask a parts counter if your belt should be 855K6 (inches in length and rib count)
---------------

edit: i looked it up with autozone.com and you have the right length belt... it must be something else like the others stated....

alignment of the other pulleys, or bad replacement tensioner

i'd go tell them to check their work again (should still be under warranty)

Davescort97
05-23-2010, 01:07 AM
I too, think you should take it back. There's something wrong with it and you've already paid them for the work. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

TheDeal526
06-14-2010, 07:18 AM
Just a quick update, I replaced the tensioner and belt with the original equipment from Ford, and the belt now makes absolutely no noise.

Thanks again for all the help.

ricebike
06-14-2010, 07:39 AM
thanks for the update; hopefully you returned those defective parts back to the shop for a refund or store credit (it was still under warranty)

mightymoose_22
06-14-2010, 05:45 PM
The last couple times I picked up a belt from Auto Zone I found that their computer was telling them to give me the wrong part. The belt was just a hair too short which caused too much tension even though it would fit.

I realized after comparing the numbers with the belt that I removed what the problem was. The lesson to be learned... don't trust that they are giving you the right parts... check for yourself.

Intuit
06-14-2010, 09:25 PM
As a general rule, "new" parts should *always* be compared to the original. This should be done even when the original belt is broken.

Back before I was the wiser and used to shop AutoZone, went through their belts fairly quickly, finding that they started cracking inside 18 months.

I opted for the GoodYear "Gatorback" line of serpentine belt and never looked back. I don't precisely recall how old the one I have now is, but it probably has well over 50k on it.

The other belts they push would start cracking at 1/5th the mileage, (even if they weren't slipping.)

zzyzzx2
06-21-2010, 12:57 PM
The last couple times I picked up a belt from Auto Zone I found that their computer was telling them to give me the wrong part. The belt was just a hair too short which caused too much tension even though it would fit.

I realized after comparing the numbers with the belt that I removed what the problem was. The lesson to be learned... don't trust that they are giving you the right parts... check for yourself.

You must have gotten the same Dayco belt I once bought! I threw it out and got a Goodyear Gatorback.

TheDeal526
06-28-2010, 09:24 AM
Ok, now I'm truly lost. The new tensioner from ford broke off the other day. I spoke to an auto repair shop, and they seem to think something caused the tensioner to heat up and break. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

TheDeal526
06-28-2010, 09:54 AM
I went and checked all the pulleys. The big one on the bottom does not move when I try when I try to move it by hand. And one of the smaller ones appears to be loose.

zzyzzx2
06-28-2010, 11:09 AM
Pics of the broken belt tensioner please!

I'd be checking the motor mounts.

TheDeal526
06-28-2010, 11:34 AM
Man, I just returned the tensioner to ford. But it basically broke where the top and right bolts go. The guys at ford said my mechanic did not install it correctly. I did a little research and discovered the big pulley on the bottom is the crank pulley, and I believe that is not suppose to move freely by hand. But you believe I may have a motor mount, and that the loose smaller pulley (idle pulley I think) is not the problem?

zzyzzx2
06-28-2010, 12:32 PM
Are you saying that it broke at the bolt holes?

TheDeal526
06-28-2010, 01:21 PM
Yes. 2 of the 3 holes where the bolts go.

Intuit
06-28-2010, 11:15 PM
It's possible that the mismatch pulley may have damaged the threads/hole and bolts.

The crank pulley, with all the accessories detached, may turn by hand, but only up to the compression stroke. If there were a problem with it where it was able to turn by hand all the way around, then the engine shouldn't run or run right because the crank sensor uses it to determine TDC on the crankshaft. (assuming it's like the 2nd-gen that is)

The engine mounts on the 2nd Gens are VERY reliable. If there are any problems with an engine or transmission mount and the 3rd-Gens are of the same design, it should be pretty easy to spot with a visual inspection.

Not quite sure how to check them otherwise, but if someone stands beside the vehicle while a driver holds the brakes and gently revs the engine while in gear, might be able to check for excessive movement that way...

TheDeal526
06-30-2010, 05:24 PM
My mechanic informed me I do have a bad engine mount. It's the one at the back of the motor, near the radiator. Now I'm not very mechanically inclined, but I'm having trouble understanding how a bad motor mount can so greatly affect only the tensioner. I already had the tensioner replaced, and I used new bolts this time. I will replace the mount too. I assume this is the rear engine mount.

I'm hoping I just had a defective tensioner. In my previous post I mentioned I initially used an aftermarket tensioner. The only problem I had with that one was the belt kept slipping when the engine was idle or with a/c running. But it never broke off like the oem tensioner did. I don't know what else I can do but replace the mount.

Any other ideas are always welcome.

Thanks all!

TheDeal526
07-18-2010, 04:02 PM
Ok, a second tensioner broke off. Either Ford has defective tensioners, my mechanic in installing it wrong, or something is causing the tensioner to break every 2 weeks. An interesting thing I noticed, just before it broke I can hear and feel the engine vibrating a little. As I mentioned in my last post, my mechanic did tell me that my rear engine mount (the one that's next to the tranny) is bad. He claimed that would not affect the tensioner at all. Does anyone think the mount will cause the tensioner to break? Or do I have other problems?

Thanks all!

zzyzzx2
07-19-2010, 07:51 AM
my mechanic did tell me that my rear engine mount (the one that's next to the tranny) is bad. He claimed that would not affect the tensioner at all. Does anyone think the mount will cause the tensioner to break? Or do I have other problems?


It's certainly not helping! I'd replace it AND check all your other motor mounts.

TheDeal526
07-19-2010, 08:48 AM
The shop I took it to believes the harmonic balancer is the culprit. They didn't get to look at it yet, but that makes more sense to me.

zzyzzx2
07-20-2010, 12:11 PM
Before I did anything, I'd be searching the internet for "harmonic balancer" to see what symptoms I could find.

Intuit
07-20-2010, 01:17 PM
Sounds silly, but verify that the belts are routed properly. Verify that you have the proper length. Also manually roll all pulleys other than crank. Check for excessive movement when turn the wheel (power steering pump,) with compressor (air conditioning) engage/disengage, and with all of your electrical toys turning on/off (alternator -unlikely). Make sure all tolerances are good enough to prevent the belt from briefly snagging on nearby brackets, components. Basically you want to verify that there isn't some accessory, responsible for briefly maxing out the tensioner motion. Perhaps that may only be evident while driving or maybe when engine RPMs are high. Also, retailers may pull from similar lots in the area. Try ordering the part from another dealer located from across the country. If the engine is bogging down at any point, or running rough that may also place an unusual amount of stress on it; though still shouldn't break it. A bad crank pulley (harmonic balancer) theoretically could also cause a jerking motion that might briefly max out the tensioner. In between the core of the crank pulley, and the part the belt attaches to, there is a rubber damper. Sometimes, though rarely I think, they go bad.

TheDeal526
07-20-2010, 05:08 PM
Hopefully this will be my final update. The shop I took the car to says the last tensioner was installed incorrectly. And that appearantly there is one bolt in particular that is difficult to get to. This bolt was left out when the previous tensioner was installed. I feel like a sucker because the first mechanic screwed me. But I'm glad all the other pulleys are ok. Hopefully this issue has been resolved now, and thanks again to everyone for all the advice.

Intuit
07-20-2010, 05:56 PM
Threads may be damaged. Recommend blue loctite on those bolts incase the bolts were simply taking two weeks to back-out.

TheDeal526
07-20-2010, 11:15 PM
Intuit, are you saying the threads on the bolts maybe damaged? Or the threads on mounting points on the car? The bolts are new. The shop wants me to bring it back in a week to make sure it's ok.

Intuit
07-21-2010, 12:28 PM
Sounds like you found a good place. Meant threads on the mounting bracket or whatever it attaches to. They probably already inspected the bracket itself for any signs of damage.

ricebike
08-01-2010, 10:41 PM
Ok, a second tensioner broke off. Either Ford has defective tensioners, my mechanic in installing it wrong, or something is causing the tensioner to break every 2 weeks. An interesting thing I noticed, just before it broke I can hear and feel the engine vibrating a little. As I mentioned in my last post, my mechanic did tell me that my rear engine mount (the one that's next to the tranny) is bad. He claimed that would not affect the tensioner at all. Does anyone think the mount will cause the tensioner to break? Or do I have other problems?

Thanks all!

http://www.ehow.com/about_5087735_signs-symptoms-bad-motor-mounts.html

In addition to causing damage to vital engine components, broken motor mounts can also cause damage to various engine drive belts and engine hoses. Severely damaged or broken motor mounts can cause engine belts and hoses to break and/or snap if the engine is allowed to rotate or turn excessively. Belts and hoses, especially water pump and power steering belts and radiator hoses, can be stretched abnormally and severely damaged or broken. As is the case with damage to engine parts caused by bad motor mounts, broken engine belts and hoses are rare occurrences that only happen as the result of severely broken or damaged engine motor mounts.

billd75
03-08-2011, 08:45 PM
It sounds like your mechanic used a cheap aftermarket part that doesn't fit right. I'd replace the tensioner witha good one (you can buy a Gates one at NAPA) and replace the belt too. NAPA also sells a crappy Dorman belt tensioner that I woudn't touch (I hate Dorman products).

There's the answer I was looking for!!! So Dorman parts are crappy? I thought so, I have a brand new Dorman belt tensioner and Dorman A/C bypass pulley (replaces a broken AC/compressor) that I have found out to my dismay, doesn't align/ride right on my Sunfire. The tensioner keeps kicking the belt partially off the ps pump. Turns out the Dorman's tensioner housing has a slightly different design than the original tensioner and causes the belt not to travel true on the ps pulley AND the Dorman A/C bypass pulley does not align properly with the crankshaft pulley.
Cheap Junk!

zzyzzx2
03-09-2011, 09:55 AM
There's the answer I was looking for!!! So Dorman parts are crappy? I thought so, I have a brand new Dorman belt tensioner and Dorman A/C bypass pulley (replaces a broken AC/compressor) that I have found out to my dismay, doesn't align/ride right on my Sunfire. The tensioner keeps kicking the belt partially off the ps pump. Turns out the Dorman's tensioner housing has a slightly different design than the original tensioner and causes the belt not to travel true on the ps pulley AND the Dorman A/C bypass pulley does not align properly with the crankshaft pulley.
Cheap Junk!

Why did you edit out the part about Dayco suing Dorman for making belt tensioners that look like Dayco's? Actually I already knew that, and aren't lawsuits public knowledge?

billd75
03-09-2011, 07:20 PM
Why did you edit out the part about Dayco suing Dorman for making belt tensioners that look like Dayco's? Actually I already knew that, and aren't lawsuits public knowledge?

It's stupid really, my wife saw the post and said "Why do you always have to make your posts so long winded?" So I figured hmm, I guess it isn't really necessary to the post. Actually, it was more like I didn't want to listen to the blah, blah, blah, so I edited it out. Oh, and yes the lawsuit against Dorman is public knowledge, I found it accidentally found it on Google when I searched for "Are Dorman parts any good?" lol. Kinda the same way I ended up here. Glad I did though, great forums and people who really seem to know their stuff. Thank's again for your post confirming Dorman parts are garbage. It really helped, because now I am using a ratty looking Gates tensioner that I got for $30 at a scrapyard that fits perfect and my car is running great and the belt is running true. So, thank's for your honesty.

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