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93 Escort surges at hot idle


CHRGD
04-12-2010, 02:11 PM
93 escort 1.9 engine,SOHC, SEFI, starts fine, and idles fine, till the temp gauge starts to move, then it surges until it shuts off, even worse when in gear. Replaced IAC, mass air flow, engine temp switch for computer, even put on an entire other throttle body, with another TPS. A friend who is a mechanic, has access to Alldata looked things up for me, and most everything points to EGR valve, only problem is, this car has no EGR valve, no place for one, no tube coming from the exhaust manifold. Door post sticker says 7/93 made in USA. I'm replaceing a fuel filter now. No difference with new filter. The car has no sticker under the hood showing vacuum routing, or engine specs. We at a loss here,(also at wits end). Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Forgot to add, check engine light is not on, and it does work, (on with key on and then goes out).

OK, update. Looks like an vacuum leak back side of head at #1 cylinder, there is a small freeze out looking plug there that may be leaking, if not that, Intake gasket leak at #1 cylinder. Sprayed it with carb cleaner and idle went up. Finally looks like we are getting somewhere.
Tearing into it tomorrow. will post after the job is done.

Intuit
04-12-2010, 11:23 PM
If your defrost or A/C is activated, but the compressor not engaging, (for example due to failed relay,) the engine may idle up because it's compensating for the expected, but missing load from the compressor.

Due to poor fuel/air ratios, ordinarily unmetered air causes an engine to miss, rough idle, stall or bog down unless it's already running rich. Once it warms up, it should be out of open loop and therefore stall rather than surge.

It's common for the exhaust and intake manifold nuts to back-off over the years; and should be retorqued to spec.

AzTumbleweed
04-13-2010, 07:43 AM
I have a '93 1.9L and it has an EGR valve. If you want I'll take a picture of it to post.

mightymoose_22
04-13-2010, 03:49 PM
My money would be on the intake gasket.

CHRGD
04-14-2010, 10:18 PM
Well we did the job, what we found was a intake gasket problem,( as mightymoose said, ty). When I first checked this problem we miss this problem. We sprayed carb cleaner around the intake, and nothing happened. We tried it again a day later, and the engine rpm's went up. Pulled the intake and found the gasket was sucked in at #1 cylinder. Replaced the gasket and all is fine now. But I am still interested in your thoughts why this car has no EGR system. I know it should be mounted right by the throttle body, but there is no holes, no boss sticking out, no tube from the exhaust manifold. This just stumps us. I will post a pic tomorrow. Thanks for all the thoughts on this problem.

Intuit
04-14-2010, 10:31 PM
It's common for those exhaust and intake nuts to back-off. Make sure that you've torqued to spec, the exhaust manifold nuts as well.

Engine might've been swapped. My '94 has one. I thought '93s were recent enough to have them too. Don't know whether the 92s do. I think most if not all 91s don't have EGR. A friend's '91 certainly didn't. If that engine was swapped with an earlier year and you have emissions testing in the area, watch out...

CHRGD
04-14-2010, 10:37 PM
We do have emissions testing here, but haven't had a problem, as it's just a gas cap test and a visual for cat. I don't have a check engine light on, and I've checked it, and it does work. The engine swap would make sense, but I am not sure if it was. I got a verification that the mileage was true at 61,000 when I got it 3 years ago. Thanks for your input.

AzTumbleweed
04-15-2010, 06:42 AM
I'll post a picture later of the EGR on my '93.By the way, I just found a long lost Army buddy on Facebook. He works for the government at the BAE plant where they build the Bradley Fighting Vehicle.

CHRGD
04-15-2010, 09:51 AM
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww243/CHRGD/009-2.jpghttp://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww243/CHRGD/010-1.jpghttp://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww243/CHRGD/011-3.jpghttp://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww243/CHRGD/012-1.jpg


Here are the pics, as you can see, no EGR valve. 3rd pic shows where it should be, and last pic shows the round cut-out in the heat shield, but no hole in manifold. We did hook a snap-on scanner to it the other day, and all the info went in without questions. I would think if the engine was swapped with an older motor there would have been problems communicating. Ran the car again this morning, and it runs fine now. Thanks again for all the replies. Jeff

Intuit
04-15-2010, 01:02 PM
Looking at the firewall in the second picture, there appears to be a disconnected wire harness and further down, fastener. Old pictures of my '94... http://img714.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=1994fordescortengcompar.jpg (click the image 3 times for a FULL sized image) The EGR has at least two sensors mounted on the firewall.

It's also possible, especially if the '92s have no EGR, that the EGR system was implemented mid-year; meaning that not all '93s would have an EGR. But if that were the case, I'd expect that those that don't have an EGR, wouldn't have the wiring for it, as seen in your second picture. Not to mention that the mounts for those sensors are there as well. I don't think "emissions control" equipment were ever an option on vehicles, (like power mirrors,) but that could be wrong...

CHRGD
04-15-2010, 01:13 PM
Yes, I also saw those wires there, I don't have a good manual for this car, I'm not sure if Alldata would have pics of that or not. I've had the car emissions checked several years now with no problems. It was just funny that Alldata pointed us to the EGR, and we couldn't find one. Made us chuckle several times at that one. This has been a great little car for us as far as gas mileage goes, only problem I see that may kill this car is roof rail rust. It was fixed when I got it a few years ago, (and I missed it) and is coming back now. I have access to a salvage yard that have several of these years escorts in it.I thought about cutting off the top skin and trying to replace it myself. I am NOT a body man, but I'm not really interested in how it looks. I think it will probably start leaking before long. It's a shame as this car still only has 65,000 miles on it. But I will run her to the ground before I get rid of it, LOL! Thanks for your help, and thoughts. Jeff

Intuit
04-15-2010, 01:41 PM
A body shop should be able to take care of that for you. Would cost a lot less than replacing the entire vehicle. Passenger side strut tower cap is a problem on my own. But per body shop welder, it's repairable for $600 - 800. Haven't had any roofline rust issues but I've been dumping liquid silicon on the rubber for those rails (as well as most other rubber on the vehicle) on an annual basis to prevent dry-rot.

AzTumbleweed
04-16-2010, 09:02 AM
EGR Valve on my '93 1.9L
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/4525294533_e3a7ffe20a_o.jpg

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